Unit suggestion thread:

Lolman112 wrote:
[...]
I had something in mind like:
Einsatz truppen. These were SS guys who followed the army and they were executioners. (But himmler and hitler thought it wasn't going fast enough so they made those camps).

Ersatz truppen. Training troops. Not finished with training and put on the battlefield to gain some experience OR it where Fallschirmjägers on the ground (I forgot which one).

Feldgendarmerie: Military Police -> even when germany was harshly losing the war, the Feldgendarmerie was still doing his job. Execute deserters etc.
[...]

how about suggesting units that actually fit into the game?! those mentioned above are just useless and stupid, sorry

wow boy, not so rude, if i were ingame i have sweared your ass off xD.

I only said: maybe you can use them.
MAYBE
that means, just suggestions.
Just a couple of letters which you can delete.
OK?

Lolman112 wrote:

Einsatz truppen. These were SS guys who followed the army and they were executioners. (But himmler and hitler thought it wasn't going fast enough so they made those camps).

Ersatz truppen. Training troops. Not finished with training and put on the battlefield to gain some experience OR it where Fallschirmjägers on the ground (I forgot which one).

Feldgendarmerie: Military Police -> even when germany was harshly losing the war, the Feldgendarmerie was still doing his job. Execute deserters etc.

No no no no no no!

This has got to be a troll, theirs just no way anyone would make this as a legitimate suggestion...

Lolman112 wrote:

Einsatz truppen. These were SS guys who followed the army and they were executioners. (But himmler and hitler thought it wasn't going fast enough so they made those camps).

Ersatz truppen. Training troops. Not finished with training and put on the battlefield to gain some experience OR it where Fallschirmjägers on the ground (I forgot which one).

Feldgendarmerie: Military Police -> even when germany was harshly losing the war, the Feldgendarmerie was still doing his job. Execute deserters etc.

One of the worst suggestions.

Guys i think he got the point, we don't have to keep rubbing it into his face.

The Feldgendarmerie isn't a bad suggestion because the Penal Troops (or Shtrafnie Troops however u like calling them ) that the Soviets have is bassicly the same thing, no retreat, fighting to the bitter end and an officer to "Inspire" them.

But that would be a desperation troop for a quick rag-tag defence so it really wouldn't fit the German concept of "Quality over Quantity"

BALLS!
Just stop annoy me ok? I know the executioners were a bad suggestion, but the rest?
Oh and I never expected a DEV was such low...

With the Feldgendarmerie, its not like that. I ment a unit (4 ppl) with a range of 30 meters or something. In that range anyone fights harder (or something).

Phew, my ability suggestion treath is going better.

Oh and thx neosdark for some support  :)

Hes not a real dev, he just tell fixes problems on the fourms and tell people to shut up.

I think the eratz truppen could be the ostheer version of volks or conscripts.  It doesn't sound like a bad idea at all to me.

Lolman, blackbishop simply stated his opinion, I believe that he is entitled to that. I do however agree with neosdark that the point about your suggestions was clear. As for a further opinion, I do believe that people reacted in an improper way.
Also, your suggestions were a bit over the top in terms of historically sensitive material.

Lolman112 wrote:
BALLS!
Just stop annoy me ok? I know the executioners were a bad suggestion, but the rest?
Oh and I never expected a DEV was such low...

With the Feldgendarmerie, its not like that. I ment a unit (4 ppl) with a range of 30 meters or something. In that range anyone fights harder (or something).

Phew, my ability suggestion treath is going better.

Oh and thx neosdark for some support  :)

Acting low... lol... perhaps I was a little harsh. My point was:

Einsatz truppen: SS 'nough said...
Ersatz truppen: Ostheer should be represented as elite soldiers after all the best soldiers were sent. Of course could be a unit like volks, but if foreigns troops would be non doctrinal...
Feldgendarmerie: Shtrafnyie troops for the ostheer. If the soviets gets them the ostheer should have them too?

I have read many unit suggestions and overall that have nothing new to offer to the ostheer hence I said that. I criticized the units not you; but perhaps I should posted that before.

@Seeme
You're wrong, I have the dev sign(ausweis blau ;)) so I suppose i'm one of them, but i have a different job :).

Seeme wrote:
... tell people to shut up.

lol

Last edited September 5, 2010 at 11:36 PM by blackbishop

Well I have this gaint Mr.Spam over my name, lucky.

Tico_1990 wrote:
Lolman, blackbishop simply stated his opinion, I believe that he is entitled to that. I do however agree with neosdark that the point about your suggestions was clear. As for a further opinion, I do believe that people reacted in an improper way.
Also, your suggestions were a bit over the top in terms of historically sensitive material.

Thanks! Nice description.

Oh and blackbishop,
Haha, not acting low, but i ment i didn't expect that of a dev.
Also I get ur point. There are so many suggestions u think that was just bullshit xD. Oh and thanks to your last post, I got an idea for a doctrine.

And i pwn the rest of my haters in CoH (haha just kidding dudes :P)

Last edited September 6, 2010 at 6:25 AM by Lolman112

Sorry Lolman, but I do agree with the rest of the guys here, all your three infantry-suggestions are just... won't fit into the Ostheer.  :)
I'll add to the explanations, blackbishop gave to you:
Einsatzgruppen acted behind the frontlines, killing civilians and therefore aren't a combat-unit. Plus they're SS.
Ersatztruppen is perhaps, only perhaps, a valid suggestion. However, there are other units which are by far better known and deserve a place in EF ten times more then those troups. For example Foreign-units, Gebirgsjäger etc.
Feldgendarmerie again wasn't a fighting unit but similiar to the Einsatzgruppen were in most cases stationed behind the front. They are the Military Police (as you said). I don't get why some people here keeps comparing them with 'Shtrafnyie troops'. Penalty units or Bewährungsbataillone.

You're right, and I fully agree with you (and even more on the Feldgendarmerie)
I had only 2 things.
Why is SS bad (partly I agree they are bad)? But not all the SS'ers were bad. Only the ones who kill innocent civilians and guarded the camps etc. Those on the front where comparable with the foreign units but than stronger.
and 2
I have a special thing for the gebirdsjäger. I think you aren't gonna use it, but I JUST SAY IT xD.
7.5 cm leichtes Gebirgsinfanteriegeschütz 18
Anti infantry gun/ Light AT gun

Plz don't restart peeing me in the face, just explain.
xD sorry for the bad comparison

Last edited September 6, 2010 at 10:24 AM by Lolman112

There's a whole thread dedicated to the first question. It turned into a flame war. It was hilarious to read! ;D

Giving a unit the name "SS blabla" might be offensive or even illegal in certain countries. Because of this, any unit which is included that might be based on SS units will not be named as such.
Cheers

TacticalNuke wrote:
There's a whole thread dedicated to the first question. It turned into a flame war. It was hilarious to read! ;D

Can you send me the link to that :P

Tico_1990 wrote:
Giving a unit the name "SS blabla" might be offensive or even illegal in certain countries.

I know, thats why you can call it StoBtruppen other something. I only asked why the SS was bad. But everyone has another opinion. So dont post it here if you have comment :P

No clue how to do that, (still slightly forum illiterate). Look in the Ostheer suggestion section, page two, "the SS"

Hope that helps. Sorry if it doesn't! Lol

Test:
http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=3561.0

Hah! Figured it out! I'm so smart... *cough* (fail!)...
Who said that?

Last edited September 6, 2010 at 10:41 AM by TacticalNuke

Lolman112 wrote:

TacticalNuke wrote:
There's a whole thread dedicated to the first question. It turned into a flame war. It was hilarious to read! ;D

Can you send me the link to that :P

Tico_1990 wrote:
Giving a unit the name "SS blabla" might be offensive or even illegal in certain countries.

I know, thats why you can call it StoBtruppen other something. I only asked why the SS was bad. But everyone has another opinion. So dont post it here if you have comment :P

Ok let me try to break this down for you a little. The whole war on the Eastern Front is a very touchy subject in general, mainly because you had two of the most evil empires of the time fighting a war for annihilation.  Basically, whoever won, the innocent on both sides would suffer incalculably (and did).  Therefore a certain amount of cultural sensitivity is necessary when exploring this topic. 

While two of your suggestions were possible (Ersatztruppen and Feldgendarmerie) they didn't fit in well with the overall Ostheer concept. 

The real issue that caused the backlash was the idea of including Einsatzgruppen.  Now i'm not sure how much you know about Einsatzgruppen but you have two basic problems with including them.  Firstly Einsatzgruppen  was a rear echelon unit, not a front line combat unit and therefore wouldn't be included in actual fighting.  Secondly Einsatzgruppen can easily be categorised as one of the worst manifestations of the Nazi regime.  The things these people did beggars all belief, evil is not a word to be used lightly (especially in the context of the EF) and it barely covers what these people did.  If your unsure about why then simply go onto "Google images" turn off the safe search and google Einsatzgruppen.  I think you'll agree that pictures speak louder than words. 

Hope this helps you understand why this is such an issue.

I study History and specialized me in the 20th century (that I am 16 doesn't matter). I know that this subject if very sensitive, this is an suggestion thread, so I thought I say it and if it is wrong, ok, but than just throw it in the garbagebag and start judging the next suggestion. But they kinda tear me apart. Just forget what I said.

And why are the Sovjets not bad. That conscripts where also just peasants and fathers who forced into the army. And the discription: Good as canon fodder (they are really good :P) but thats also kinda... i don't know the word.

So whatever, just go on with the next suggestions ok? (or go on waiting :P) I know I don't have to dare to put another suggestion here :P

I think you had so many suggestions that everything you hear is double.
If you think this a little offensive, sorry about that but I'm not really good in english :)

Ok, just to move on:

What about a single unarmed (or just with a crappy smg) soldier who can use panzerfaust ability for free (or for a muni cost). It could be an incorporation of the volkssturm to Ostheer. They could be something that you buy from your mainbase. They could be really good at ambushing, but have very poor armor and HP. Worse than conscripts

I understand that blobbing these suckers could destroy the game, but I think the base idea is kinda cool.

Toorstain wrote:
Ok, just to move on:

What about a single unarmed (or just with a crappy smg) soldier who can use panzerfaust ability for free (or for a muni cost). It could be an incorporation of the volkssturm to Ostheer. They could be something that you buy from your mainbase. They could be really good at ambushing, but have very poor armor and HP. Worse than conscripts

I understand that blobbing these suckers could destroy the game, but I think the base idea is kinda cool.

You see i had considered something similar, a doctrine ability that allowed all infantry to use a panzerfaust for a muni cost like the volks squads.  The problem with one man units is you have to give them extra health or camouflage otherwise they end up being killed by random explosions too easily. 

This is fine idea, one man armed with panzerfaust. Mybe make him able to hide in cover and buildings.

panzerfaust man, nice :) If i where you i should give him the camouflage and (tank) ambush vehicle. Or, maybe thats not so smart, becouse if you spam 100 of em you can win the game..

Well, you'd have to slightly add more power to the panzerfaust to make it work, but nice idea :-)

Sorry, but I don't like the idea.
Volkssturm would destroy the whole Ostheer, in my opinion.

Add such things to the Red Army, but not OH. After all, every infantry unit (as long as it's not a 'Foreign Unit') should be in some matter 'Elite' and not a single 'cannonfodder'-unit should make its way into the final faction.  :-X

But remember, the Name says Elite, not necessary there fighting skills.

I'm fine with Volksstrum.

Also, not all the Ostheer was elite. Sure, all the quality stuff went to the east, but the entire force there wasn't all SS.

Not all SS was elite.

Wehrmacht had elite units too. Not just the SS. Besides Hitler sent his best stuff there: Own veterans, equipment, allies' best soldiers.

IMO Volksstrum = Volks in EF battlegrounds... I don't think that unit should be made with that stats, would require a lot of micro. I prefer something like a spy/saboteur/wehrwolf commando(I know they were most propaganda but KCH are worse in that aspect :)).

Last edited September 10, 2010 at 3:14 PM by blackbishop

blackbishop wrote:
allies' best soldiers.

Best soldiers from the allies. Which one? Italy xD. The Italian soldiers are not really as hard as the wehrmacht :P.

(but I agree with u)

Hi,  the GebirgsJaeger was a group of soldiers, the "mountain hunters" or, more accuratley, mountain infantry. On the eastern front they were used very extensively by the germans, they are one major faction that characterises the eastern front. I realize "ostheer" is not a unit. The Gebirgsjaeger, Gebirgs Artillerie, (german spelligns, or close too) Field guns, snipers MG gunners, and most of all, infantry, under supplied, under manned, minimal moralled, but fighting for survival, not for Hitler, that is what their war became after the fall of Stalingrad and the massive advance of the Red Army. I'm telling you, read "Sniper on the Eastern Front" by Albrecht Wacker. It gives some great insight into the conditions these troops were in.

I imagine using GebirgsJaegers and/or Alpinis over a snowy map 8). That should be a winner.

There's a mod with an axis donkey with 2 rocket launchers
and a 2x Panzershrek launcher. I'm not joking.

And, yes, the donkey walks just fine ! ;)

Loupblanc wrote:

There's a mod with an axis donkey with 2 rocket launchers
and a 2x Panzershrek launcher. I'm not joking.

And, yes, the donkey walks just fine ! ;)

The Eselschreck is on Relic original files. It was matter of time that someone used it :D. It's the first time I heard that someone use it ;D.

The Gebirgsjaeger were not just mountain troops. Look into it. Seriosuly, i hope they consider this. Grey uniforms, Eidelweiss tin badges on their caps. 
    Field guns, lots of them at first, but limited so that they have to rely on other methods. Bundeled grenades, almost no halftracks. They shot for the gas cans on the back of russian tanks, a lucky shot could cause the gas to leak into and over the engine, catching fire and stopping the tank. Hero Sergeants and officers, high HP, raises morale automatically. But htey cost a LOT of manpower (NOT popcap). Make every unit tough, but costly, simulating limited reinforcements as Wermacht intelegence fails. Special runners, cthey mark a unit, then run back to home in retreat mode, making this unit visible (enemy unit) until it is destroyed.
      Special from command tree: grant medals, iron crosses, knights crosses, raises the general stats of the soldier, and minutely for any units within range, limited number of medals available. permanant effect. "Mich oder Dich" (me or you) raises the attack and defense of units to unbelievable levels, after this runs out they imediatly retreat, a fight for survival.  A special unit could be a hero sniper, you mark some prepared positions of his, he moves in between them almost impossible to be seen. "justified actions"-  Soldiers fight against horrible attrocities commited by the Red Army (remember most soldiers had NO idea about the 'Camps').  Soldiers defend areas fiercly as the war nears their homes.  "Close quarters" Soldiers fight with their usual Karabiner's and MP-40's unless upgraded with unscoped G-43s (selbsladtgeweher model 43) or STG 44s. when they are point blank will unleash hell with shovels, knives, bayonetts, making them deadly in close quarters.  "Trench Warfare" Systems of trenches can be dug, like a double wall of sandbags, when placed inside them units will not leave until ordered but they will move within the sandbags to as close to other areas as possible.  "Fur Die Reich"  Soldiers retreating will place landmines automatically with this ability active. They will place with no ammo cost, but the mines will be 1/4 as effective, and damaging to BOTH sides, as not every soldier was aware of the mine fields other retrteatting units placed.

Seriously, what's the point in creating a unit like the Gebirgsjäger you suggested?
You basicly said they're uber in close range, uber in long range (sniper), uber against tanks (disable them) and have their field guns for artillery support.  ;D
In my opinion, if the Gebirgsjäger are actually added, it should be a small infantry unit (3-4 men) which is good for long-range anti-infantry combat. Armed with scoped K98k or G43. However, they suck at close range. But I would like it even more, if this role is being taken by a foreign unit like Romanian Mountaineers or Italian Alpini. (Label them "Foreign Mountaineers" or "Southern Mountain Specialists" to avoid ppl bitching about "why isn't my country in!!111".)
No point in making nearly the complete Ostheer into a Gebirgsjäger-Korps.


Now, to my suggestion:
I know there were already suggestions to make the Ostheer mobile by giving them special halftrack-conversions to beware the recrewing-bug SU is suffering under.
For example the SdKfz 10 is the Ostheer's standard troop-transporter.
SdKfz 10/4 or /5 with 2cm FlaK38 as AA and AI-weapon, while SdKfz 10/5 with 5cm PaK38 as AT-weapon.
This vehicles where in most cases unarmored and therefore are a simple target for every attacker (take into account the PE uses the armored SdKfz 250). Of course, this would balance the mobility of the halftracks, however, they could be even faster destroyed than the paper-armor SdKfz 250 and 251.

Now, many concepts seems to include the 251, but as we all now, this thing is already part of the WH. I know it was the most common IAFV, but how about the Ostheer actually get something new?

German Forces captured many French halftrack (UNIC P107) during the Western Campaign, some of them were converted by "Commando Becker", which also created the Marder-tankdestroyer-series and other improvised armor, into SPW U304(f). There were also upgunned versions with 2cm FlaK and others.
I don't know if they served on the Eastern Front, but Becker's unit, the 21st Panzerdivision served from early 1945 till the end of the war in the East.

blackbishop wrote:

Loupblanc wrote:

There's a mod with an axis donkey with 2 rocket launchers
and a 2x Panzershrek launcher. I'm not joking.

And, yes, the donkey walks just fine ! ;)

The Eselschreck is on Relic original files. It was matter of time that someone used it :D. It's the first time I heard that someone use it ;D.

Well i have another use for it, and if you like CoI mod u know it very well. I love this freakin Donkey, its a good sub for the PE (or as called in mod, SS) Ketten, and it can travel on the small bridges .

EDIT: perhaps we can get something like this as a Ost Recon unit  ;D

:o OMFG and I thought that they make war seriously...

I actually like the idea of the Gebirgsjäger, but as a call in unit, almost like Stormtroopers or Falls. (I would like to see the Edelweiss on the uniforms). They should be infiltration troops more than front line fighters.

Spieel wrote:
I actually like the idea of the Gebirgsjäger, but as a call in unit, almost like Stormtroopers or Falls. (I would like to see the Edelweiss on the uniforms). They should be infiltration troops more than front line fighters.

Indeed.

Since it hasn't been officially announced like the Panzer III and Panzer II Luchs i suggest the StuG III Ausf. G and this one in particular: http://ww2drawings.jexiste.fr/Files/1-Vehicles/Axis/1-Germany/05-Sturmpanzers/StuG3/StuG3-Ausf.G.htm

1)Lots of them where built and a few converted from Panzer III
2)Some where used in the Eastern Front too
3)Armed with the gun in there(75 mm StuK 40 L/48)
4)It has upgrades similar to Panzer III(skirts and short barrel)
5)It is a global upgrade to allow it to be built
6)Once the upgrade is done you can either:
a)convert from Panzer III near factory but it should be faster than building an actual StuG III
b)convert from Bergepanzer III in field if it's gonna be buildable or doctrine
c)convert from Panzer III in field like an upgrade but it takes longer and it shouldn't move in that time

Last edited September 27, 2010 at 7:11 PM by Cozmin95

@Cozmin: The whole thing was already discussed into another thread. You posted also there. It was closed because everything was mentioned and it turned into a massive spamfest. Therefore please don't start it again.  :)

@ the Gebirgsjäger: Spieel's idea sounds good.
Is it possible to remove the rider and the Wurfgerät from the donkey and us it as part of a unit? Perhaps as kinda "Re-supply"-point like PE's 251 ammunition-carrier?

Well you are kinda right but this time i posted like a suggestion with full detail so the devs will notice it unlike the post about medium tanks when devs stopped reading a few pages from the last post!
And i also wanted feedback on my idea mostly from devs i don't want suggestions from other users so it doesn't make another conflict on how it should be, i suggested my unit and i want to know what they think about it! :)

What should devs write as feedback for u?
We had already confirmed that Panzer III Ausf. J and Pz III Ausf. N will be part of the Ostheer.

About StuG:
We know that StuG III was an essential part of the historical Wehrmacht at the east but we had to keep gameplay in mind when we create a new faction. So when Ostheer had no place for unit x or unit y they wont be part of Ostheer. That is said but that is CoH.
U had to be wait till we present u the final Ostheer concept.
Before presentation we wont say this unit is part or isnt part.

And about the converting idea:
Out of my view this isnt a good idea!
StuGs and Panzer III were build at german by special factories.
It isnt so easy to convert a Pz III into a StuG.
If Ostheer had StuG III Ostheer should be able to produce it out of an factory and not by converting Pz III on battlefield.

Would it make sense to have Panzer 3s buildable under offensive operations and Stugs during defensive? At least, assuming I have the jist of how Ostheer works right.

QuoteWe know that StuG III was an essential part of the historical Wehrmacht at the east but we had to keep gameplay in mind when we create a new faction. So when Ostheer had no place for unit x or unit y they wont be part of Ostheer.

Exactly.
Though I first agreed with converting Pz3 into Stug3 at first, I now came to the conclusion that it makes no sense at all.
Pz3 and Stug3 are two totally different vehicles, additionally only about 157 were actually converted. Therefore it wasn't common at all.

QuoteWhat should devs write as feedback for u? [...] Before presentation we wont say this unit is part or isnt part.

That being said, the discussion about these two vehicles was already done, no need to revive it and start an endless "discussion".  ::)

However, I'm still curious if it's possible to make a "Carrier-unit" with a donkey? (Coding and animation-wise?)

Last edited September 28, 2010 at 1:40 PM by Aouch

Elite Squad with M38 Gasmasks and Trenchcoats, just for the awesome-factor.

'For the awesome-factor' I would personally rather see a "Heroes of Stalingrad"-unit with really battle-hardened soldiers, wielding MP40s and PPSch-41s. Make them look like some really bad-asses and there you've got 'the awesome-factor' plus it would be a dozen times more believable.

I think 2 Hero Squads are Enough.

If you want "Hero" squads go play Coh:O, I hear there's Hero squads there.