#35164
The SS
Should the SS be represented in the ostheer in some form of way either by a unit or as a doctrine ability. Discuss
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Locked topic · 131 posts
The SS
Ostheer Suggestions
Archived poll
Should the SS be in the Ostheer
yes79 votes · 73%
no29 votes · 27%
108 total votes
#35174
Re: The SS
I dont care but some people will find it somehow offensive. Lets just not get sued... lol
The Russians think there sooo tough, wait till the Ostheer comes...
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Coh Name: Seeme
#35187
Re: The SS
The Waffen SS didn't play a very important role on the Eastern Front until the Battle of Berlin, so I say no
Workers of the world unite!
#35193
Re: The SS
Well scientificly there are many SS refrences in the PE (we discussed this a LOOOOOONG time ago), so as long as we don't plaster swastikas and don't get them screaming Tötet die Schweine!!! I'm sure we can make an SS unit or something quite similar. I'm all for SS Adolf Hitler to be represented as heavy shock troops. If i were to make them it would be something like:
4 men armed with MP-28. They can get multiple upgrades (to reflect how they got the best equipment) to improve their skill at all ranges. Upgrades:
1)G-43 w/ Schießbecher for mid to long range and anti-building combat, (You can choose to activate the Rifle Grenades at any time and disable them at any time)
2)StG-44 w/Krummlauf - For mid to short range combat, the Krummlauf improves accuracy in heavy (green and up) cover (making them more accurate in buildings and green cover)
3)PPsh-41- For close-quarters/urban combat, the captured PPsh-41s are a favorite of German troops and the SS used them to full affect on the Eastern Front. Since the Germans used the 7.63x25mm Mauser cartridge instead of the 7.62x25mm Tokarev, the PPsh-41s are weaker (less power due to different bullet designs), but these weapons are still lethal in the hands of our SS.
They shouldn't get AT (in this form) because they are very-fast shock troops, and giving them PzSchrecks would be OP. But that depends on the person making the unit and what he thinks they should do.
@Jared:my friend i have no idea what you are blabbing about because the Waffen SS spent a LOT of time fighting the Americans and Soviets. People defending Berlin were just that people, Volkssturm and groups like that. Sure there were army units but mainly they were civilians, WW1 vets and those deemed unfit for service before. The SS served at Kursk, Kharkov and so many other places. So please get your info right.
4 men armed with MP-28. They can get multiple upgrades (to reflect how they got the best equipment) to improve their skill at all ranges. Upgrades:
1)G-43 w/ Schießbecher for mid to long range and anti-building combat, (You can choose to activate the Rifle Grenades at any time and disable them at any time)
2)StG-44 w/Krummlauf - For mid to short range combat, the Krummlauf improves accuracy in heavy (green and up) cover (making them more accurate in buildings and green cover)
3)PPsh-41- For close-quarters/urban combat, the captured PPsh-41s are a favorite of German troops and the SS used them to full affect on the Eastern Front. Since the Germans used the 7.63x25mm Mauser cartridge instead of the 7.62x25mm Tokarev, the PPsh-41s are weaker (less power due to different bullet designs), but these weapons are still lethal in the hands of our SS.
They shouldn't get AT (in this form) because they are very-fast shock troops, and giving them PzSchrecks would be OP. But that depends on the person making the unit and what he thinks they should do.
@Jared:my friend i have no idea what you are blabbing about because the Waffen SS spent a LOT of time fighting the Americans and Soviets. People defending Berlin were just that people, Volkssturm and groups like that. Sure there were army units but mainly they were civilians, WW1 vets and those deemed unfit for service before. The SS served at Kursk, Kharkov and so many other places. So please get your info right.
Last edited May 26, 2010 at 3:43 AM by neosdark
#35194
Re: The SS
I believe the whermacht terror doctrine was suppost to represent a SS company or something but I'm guessing they didn't use the word SS for fears of some sort of backlash or something.
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#35199
Re: The SS
Yup the Terror is something similar to that.
Just like when you pick PE the commander says "Burn them out!!!- We now have Incindiary grenades, to help eradicate the disease that is our enemy" or something like that. Its implied that they are a Kampfgruppe formed of a SS Panzergrenadier Division and some other elements. So they have all kinds of soldiers. Just can't directly call'em SS but thats the only real problem. So now we just need to make a good unit to represent the SS and give it a good name.
Just like when you pick PE the commander says "Burn them out!!!- We now have Incindiary grenades, to help eradicate the disease that is our enemy" or something like that. Its implied that they are a Kampfgruppe formed of a SS Panzergrenadier Division and some other elements. So they have all kinds of soldiers. Just can't directly call'em SS but thats the only real problem. So now we just need to make a good unit to represent the SS and give it a good name.
#35201
Re: The SS
jared2013 wrote:
The Waffen SS didn't play a very important role on the Eastern Front until the Battle of Berlin, so I say no
i don't know what your talking about there were tons of ss used in the eastern front about 60% as a matter of fact. from Leningrad, Sevastopol, and Stalingrad and every ware in between. they were also used in larger concentrations than in the west and with better weapons.
#35203
Re: The SS
I think that a SS related unit could fit in the Ostheer like a panther or a tiger. It's impossible that they didn't mingled in the east, they were everywhere!!!
Mors Indecepta
Might controls everything, and without strength you cannot protect anything. Let alone yourself...
Might controls everything, and without strength you cannot protect anything. Let alone yourself...
#35204
Re: The SS
The SS is a bit of a vague area in the useless and idiotic mire of political correctness. I think it really depends on which branch of the SS. The political branch of the SS is generally considered a nasty area, while most people seem to realize that the armed forces branch of the SS was mostly a benign organization. That's not to say that there weren't war crimes committed by the Waffen SS, but generally speaking they weren't typically more... evil, then the rest of the armed forces.
At any rate, FREE MOD. How exactly are they gonna be sued? They're not subject to the same rules and regulations that bind retail games.
At any rate, FREE MOD. How exactly are they gonna be sued? They're not subject to the same rules and regulations that bind retail games.
#35229
Re: The SS
I was jk, god >:(
The Russians think there sooo tough, wait till the Ostheer comes...
Coh Name: Seeme
Coh Name: Seeme
#35231
Re: The SS
neosdark wrote:
Yup the Terror is something similar to that.
Just like when you pick PE the commander says "Burn them out!!!- We now have Incindiary grenades, to help eradicate the disease that is our enemy" or something like that. Its implied that they are a Kampfgruppe formed of a SS Panzergrenadier Division and some other elements. So they have all kinds of soldiers. Just can't directly call'em SS but thats the only real problem. So now we just need to make a good unit to represent the SS and give it a good name.
Yep, that is an Elite Battlegroup, but not the SS. That's the Panzergruppe Lehr, as when you play the campaign they say it in the cinematics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_Lehr_Division
It's historically accurate faction beacause when Hungary wanted to end the war, the Lehr Divison sent there to "keep peace and order". I think the SS wasn't a Battlegroup until Operation Barbarossa, but I'm not sure. I'll look into it.
#35237
Re: The SS
Well. I'm against the Waffen-SS.
That have some reasons i will explaine u:
All in all i have "nothing" against SS.-troops in a game
but i ask me what will be the benefit for the game?
CoH take place in the 2. ww and "simulate" battles
between the axis, alliies and red troops.
Out of the historical view the Waffen-SS was a high
trained ( okay. That doesent count on all SS-Units!!! )
and high motivated group. They fought without regard
and were noted by a number of brutal war crimes.
Out of the perspective of CoH i have to ask me what
such a troop would bring to the game?
Out of my view it would be just the name and nothing more. CoH-battles are to small and to "simple structured"
to show the realy side of the Waffen-SS.
Okay. Some of u will say that SS-Units will be heavy armed, heavy to suppress and extreme feared units one the battlefield. My question is; why does such a troop with "elite status" had to be called SS?
When u just want to have "elite units" whats about "Großdeutschland" or a more "abstract name"?
So when someone can explain me the benefits for the CoH i would be the last one who would boycott this idea...
That have some reasons i will explaine u:
All in all i have "nothing" against SS.-troops in a game
but i ask me what will be the benefit for the game?
CoH take place in the 2. ww and "simulate" battles
between the axis, alliies and red troops.
Out of the historical view the Waffen-SS was a high
trained ( okay. That doesent count on all SS-Units!!! )
and high motivated group. They fought without regard
and were noted by a number of brutal war crimes.
Out of the perspective of CoH i have to ask me what
such a troop would bring to the game?
Out of my view it would be just the name and nothing more. CoH-battles are to small and to "simple structured"
to show the realy side of the Waffen-SS.
Okay. Some of u will say that SS-Units will be heavy armed, heavy to suppress and extreme feared units one the battlefield. My question is; why does such a troop with "elite status" had to be called SS?
When u just want to have "elite units" whats about "Großdeutschland" or a more "abstract name"?
So when someone can explain me the benefits for the CoH i would be the last one who would boycott this idea...
May the force be with you.
#35238
Re: The SS
If you look at the vanila COH manual for stormtroopers you'll see the description 'combat arm of the Nazi party'-aka SS.
We can avoid sensitive titles like that much like relic did...after all what matters most is for a unit name to be 'memorable' sound cool and most importantly how that unit plays in game ;)...Skins will have the necessary historical symbols though, unlike Relics stuff as our political sensitivity only goes so far..
We can avoid sensitive titles like that much like relic did...after all what matters most is for a unit name to be 'memorable' sound cool and most importantly how that unit plays in game ;)...Skins will have the necessary historical symbols though, unlike Relics stuff as our political sensitivity only goes so far..
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#35256
Re: The SS
Lord wrote:
Out of the historical view the Waffen-SS was a high
trained ( okay. That doesent count on all SS-Units!!! )
and high motivated group. They fought without regard
and were noted by a number of brutal war crimes.
And the Red Army raped the half of the Eastern Europe. They fought for Vodka. The German regime and the soviet were the same, I'm not seeing any of the comments about the crimes the soviets did.
It's just a historycally game and simulates battles. Don't take it serious....
#35259
Re: The SS
TheReaper wrote:Lord wrote:
Out of the historical view the Waffen-SS was a high
trained ( okay. That doesent count on all SS-Units!!! )
and high motivated group. They fought without regard
and were noted by a number of brutal war crimes.
And the Red Army raped the half of the Eastern Europe. They fought for Vodka. The German regime and the soviet were the same, I'm not seeing any of the comments about the crimes the soviets did.
It's just a historycally game and simulates battles. Don't take it serious....
Read my hole post and u will see that i'm against the Waffen-SS as unit because i cant see any profit for the game.
And with the crimes; well, we are talking here about the game and not the general history. You can be sure that i'm informed about war crimes by the soviets too.
And saying that one system is the same like the other one is a silly comment ;) But this get off topic now.
All in all i repeat my point; i wont boycott any unit which make sense for the game.
May the force be with you.
#35298
Re: The SS
There is nothing wrong with the W-SS that the Allies didn't do. I actually really want to see SS with their lightning bolt logo instead of some sturmtrupen panzy junk.
"You can close your eyes and plug your ears and be afraid and ignorant of the darker parts of history, but always know that you're the one responsible for allowing those events to happen again and with even greater consequences and not know how to end the nightmare you did upon yourself."
#35303
Re: The SS
Lord wrote:
Well. I'm against the Waffen-SS.
That have some reasons i will explaine u:
All in all i have "nothing" against SS.-troops in a game
but i ask me what will be the benefit for the game?
CoH take place in the 2. ww and "simulate" battles
between the axis, alliies and red troops.
Out of the historical view the Waffen-SS was a high
trained ( okay. That doesent count on all SS-Units!!! )
and high motivated group. They fought without regard
and were noted by a number of brutal war crimes.
Out of the perspective of CoH i have to ask me what
such a troop would bring to the game?
Out of my view it would be just the name and nothing more. CoH-battles are to small and to "simple structured"
to show the realy side of the Waffen-SS.
Okay. Some of u will say that SS-Units will be heavy armed, heavy to suppress and extreme feared units one the battlefield. My question is; why does such a troop with "elite status" had to be called SS?
When u just want to have "elite units" whats about "Großdeutschland" or a more "abstract name"?
So when someone can explain me the benefits for the CoH i would be the last one who would boycott this idea...
Well , the W-SS was part in many battles of the WW2 on tha east. If the W-SS would only participtaed in few battles there would be no need for them but they were involved in a lot of ww2 battles. there don't need to be bad bad symbols which bring you in jail in germany but only to bring in the w-ss which is far away from SS-TV or Einsatzgruppen which were the real criminal groups of the gnatzys
#35305
Re: The SS
mh i also think there should be some w-ss units für the ostheer. maybe only doctrinal units but there were a improtant part of the eastern war! but i also agree rommel when he say that there is always the same idears. strongest unit in game. hard to supress etc...
maybe it should be a unit you can´t supress but also can´t retreat, because the waffe ss souldiers were politicaly and ideologicaly trained. they fought without regardless of the losses! they should be strong but not stronger than knight cross holders!!!
maybe it should be a unit you can´t supress but also can´t retreat, because the waffe ss souldiers were politicaly and ideologicaly trained. they fought without regardless of the losses! they should be strong but not stronger than knight cross holders!!!
#35380
Re: The SS
Well. At the moment any one had write a real reason for call a unit SS-Unit and not "Elite-Unit" or just "Unit".
They were parts of the battles of the east and the west.
They had fought on the frontlines.
But i cant see any benefit for CoH when we would name an unit "SS-Soldiers" ( or things like that ).
And with the problems of the symbols;
well. I hadnt write out this topic, right ;)
But it is a real problem for german players and
i think that we had not to discuss this here.
They were parts of the battles of the east and the west.
They had fought on the frontlines.
But i cant see any benefit for CoH when we would name an unit "SS-Soldiers" ( or things like that ).
And with the problems of the symbols;
well. I hadnt write out this topic, right ;)
But it is a real problem for german players and
i think that we had not to discuss this here.
May the force be with you.
#35394
Re: The SS
to make it clear. for me it´s not neccessary to call them ss soldiers. call them sturmtruppen or something like that, but i think they should be recognized as soldiers form the waffen-ss.
But do not misunderstand, i don´t mean nazi flags or things like that. their ability should show what they represented on the battlefield.
But do not misunderstand, i don´t mean nazi flags or things like that. their ability should show what they represented on the battlefield.
#35427
Re: The SS
so whole argue is about name? >:(
call them "elite german troops", veterans, finest Vaterland's soliders... they don't have to be called SS, but they apperarance and abilities ( no retreat, high damage resist) should slightly suggest that they aren't ordinary soliders.
call them "elite german troops", veterans, finest Vaterland's soliders... they don't have to be called SS, but they apperarance and abilities ( no retreat, high damage resist) should slightly suggest that they aren't ordinary soliders.
Lord wrote:
OSTHEER IS DONE WHEN IT'S DONE!
#35433
Re: The SS
Rommel, while I'm generally indifferent about the inclusion/exclusion of an Waffen-SS Unit/Doctrine/Whatever, I do think that you could do some interesting gameplay stuff with them.
Some Examples:
*The Waffen SS had a brutal and fanatic reputation. As such, you could simulate the effect this had on the enemy by increasing their ability to suppress the enemy, giving them an ability/chance to put them into flight or the like.
* Again, going back to their reputation for fanaticism, a 'No Suppression' ability, similar to that of the US-Paratroopers could be included.
* Ironically, the Waffen-SS ended up being the most multi-ethnic and multi-cultural army of the war. Bosniaks, Turks or even British could be included.
* The Waffen-SS gained a reputation for being the 'Firefighters of the Army', being sent to help out Wehrmacht units wherever need may be.
(This was a job they took over from the Fallschirmjaegers after most of them were transferred to fight in Italy and the Western Front)
As such, they could receive added speed or be bought as an off-map unit, as is the case in the normal CoH.
* The Waffen-SS were the first to employ camouflage uniforms and employed a variety of designs throughout the war. Visual variety aside, this could be used, for example, as an Upgrade (Better Design -> Better Camouflage, going from Invis-when-standing to Invis-when-moving)
Those are just a couple of ideas I thought of right from the get-go. Of course you could probably do most, if not all of them without referring to the unit(s) as Waffen SS, but that would of course only serve personal reservations.
PS: With regards to the legal worries for German Players/Developers:
The simple reference of the Waffen-SS is not punishable in any form, art or not. It only get's illegal when you employ the double Sig-Rune. You could even name a unit "Waffen-SS Grenadiers" or whatever, and as long as you don't write it with the Sig-Runes, you're fine.
Furthermore, since the Waffen-SS units mostly used 'Schluepfhemde' and Helmet covers in the field which covered the collar tabs, the mappers wouldn't even have to draw the undesirable symbols.
I'm not even going to go into the arguments of videogames being art and therefore exempt from the ban on NS-symbols.
Some Examples:
*The Waffen SS had a brutal and fanatic reputation. As such, you could simulate the effect this had on the enemy by increasing their ability to suppress the enemy, giving them an ability/chance to put them into flight or the like.
* Again, going back to their reputation for fanaticism, a 'No Suppression' ability, similar to that of the US-Paratroopers could be included.
* Ironically, the Waffen-SS ended up being the most multi-ethnic and multi-cultural army of the war. Bosniaks, Turks or even British could be included.
* The Waffen-SS gained a reputation for being the 'Firefighters of the Army', being sent to help out Wehrmacht units wherever need may be.
(This was a job they took over from the Fallschirmjaegers after most of them were transferred to fight in Italy and the Western Front)
As such, they could receive added speed or be bought as an off-map unit, as is the case in the normal CoH.
* The Waffen-SS were the first to employ camouflage uniforms and employed a variety of designs throughout the war. Visual variety aside, this could be used, for example, as an Upgrade (Better Design -> Better Camouflage, going from Invis-when-standing to Invis-when-moving)
Those are just a couple of ideas I thought of right from the get-go. Of course you could probably do most, if not all of them without referring to the unit(s) as Waffen SS, but that would of course only serve personal reservations.
PS: With regards to the legal worries for German Players/Developers:
The simple reference of the Waffen-SS is not punishable in any form, art or not. It only get's illegal when you employ the double Sig-Rune. You could even name a unit "Waffen-SS Grenadiers" or whatever, and as long as you don't write it with the Sig-Runes, you're fine.
Furthermore, since the Waffen-SS units mostly used 'Schluepfhemde' and Helmet covers in the field which covered the collar tabs, the mappers wouldn't even have to draw the undesirable symbols.
I'm not even going to go into the arguments of videogames being art and therefore exempt from the ban on NS-symbols.
The fundamental problem of Democracy is that the majority of voters are idiots fueled by uninformed rage - and the Politicians do everything to cater to them.
#35465
Re: The SS
Or you could tell Merkel and her socialist-liberals to go suck it.
"You can close your eyes and plug your ears and be afraid and ignorant of the darker parts of history, but always know that you're the one responsible for allowing those events to happen again and with even greater consequences and not know how to end the nightmare you did upon yourself."
#35467
Re: The SS
ouch ,
But umm, isn't it a very thin line naming a unit SS due to German Law?
But umm, isn't it a very thin line naming a unit SS due to German Law?
Molly: " It's our rock garden"
Dwight: "What are you farming, Bullcrap?"
You Are a Rebel Spy and a traitor to the Empire!
~Darth Vader
Any typos found may be given to Seeme.
Dwight: "What are you farming, Bullcrap?"
You Are a Rebel Spy and a traitor to the Empire!
~Darth Vader
Any typos found may be given to Seeme.
#35501
Re: The SS
ißm not sure
but on the other side it´s still a mod and you can do what you want^^
i think it would be another thing if this is a official addon of relic. but afaik there are no law rules for mods
but on the other side it´s still a mod and you can do what you want^^
i think it would be another thing if this is a official addon of relic. but afaik there are no law rules for mods
#35525
Re: The SS
Since Eastern Front has (had?) the intention to be an official CoH-expansion, I think we shouldn't name a unit straight-a-head "Waffen-SS" or something similiar.
It should be done like in vanilla CoH: Make a unit or faction which could be the SS, but don't name it.
For example, I included a "Foreign Volunteer" squad into my concept. With the description elite soldiers everyone can think they're part of SS-Division Viking or Handzar but also "normal units" like 250th Spanish Div.
A Protectionsquad (armed with MP28) could be a SD or SS-police unit but at the same time a simple WH-unit behind the frontline.
It should be done like in vanilla CoH: Make a unit or faction which could be the SS, but don't name it.
For example, I included a "Foreign Volunteer" squad into my concept. With the description elite soldiers everyone can think they're part of SS-Division Viking or Handzar but also "normal units" like 250th Spanish Div.
A Protectionsquad (armed with MP28) could be a SD or SS-police unit but at the same time a simple WH-unit behind the frontline.
#35547
Re: The SS
jared2013 wrote:
The Waffen SS didn't play a very important role on the Eastern Front until the Battle of Berlin, so I say no
You are makin jokes, right?
Battle of Prokhorovka/Kursk - "not a very important role"?
Battle of Charkow? - "not a very important role"?
The Waffen-SS was so "unimportant" in the East, that they just happend to recruit several Divisions out of Baltics, Ukraine and even Bjelorussians, eh? (Kampfgruppe Kaminski ect.)
Sorry to have to say this, but such comments show a pathetic ignorance in history. The only place the Waffen-SS didn't fight was Africa.
Of course the Ostheer need Waffen-SS!!!
#35639
Re: The SS
Akalonor wrote:
ouch ,
But umm, isn't it a very thin line naming a unit SS due to German Law?
Not everyone lives in Germany. I, for example, am American. Why should I follow a totalitarian, stupid law that doesn't even exist in my own country and probalbly never will because of the consitution and right of free speech of the USA?
Besides, Nazis would go to Sweden or Norway, not Germany, if they regained power.
"You can close your eyes and plug your ears and be afraid and ignorant of the darker parts of history, but always know that you're the one responsible for allowing those events to happen again and with even greater consequences and not know how to end the nightmare you did upon yourself."
#35644
Re: The SS
It like devs stated time ago "do you want to name it in that way just to prove that in our mod that can be done" or something like that i don't remember if was BurroDiablo, WartyX or Rizz... why do you want to name a unit SS [email redacted]?? The name isn't important you know ;).
Mors Indecepta
Might controls everything, and without strength you cannot protect anything. Let alone yourself...
Might controls everything, and without strength you cannot protect anything. Let alone yourself...
#35646
Re: The SS
WartyX wrote:
SS will be incorporated in the same way as Wehrmacht and Panzer Elite. They won't specifically be called 'SS', but certain units' uniforms and loadout will indicate this.
Relic didn't call Riflemen 'US Army Riflemen', and they didn't call Stormtroopers 'SS Stormtroopers'. There is no reason to call our elite troops the SS, just to prove that we can write 'SS' in our game.
#35649
Re: The SS
WartyX wrote:WartyX wrote:
SS will be incorporated in the same way as Wehrmacht and Panzer Elite. They won't specifically be called 'SS', but certain units' uniforms and loadout will indicate this.
Relic didn't call Riflemen 'US Army Riflemen', and they didn't call Stormtroopers 'SS Stormtroopers'. There is no reason to call our elite troops the SS, just to prove that we can write 'SS' in our game.
So I guess I'll be seeing fantasy units to fill in for the SS because Merkel says "No no" then?
"You can close your eyes and plug your ears and be afraid and ignorant of the darker parts of history, but always know that you're the one responsible for allowing those events to happen again and with even greater consequences and not know how to end the nightmare you did upon yourself."
#35651
Re: The SS
Akalonor wrote:
ouch ,
But umm, isn't it a very thin line naming a unit SS due to German Law?
Naw, it's only the Logos:Sig-Runes, Swastikas and all that kind of crap. The naming should be no problem.
#35652
Re: The SS
Quite frankly, I don't care what Merkel thinks. Taboo or not, using the unit's branch in its name 'just because' seems out of place when it comes to unit names in Company of Heroes.
We will not be using fictional units. In fact, the names we have prepared for SS units are probably more historically accurate than 'SS Badass' or whatever you were hoping for.
We will not be using fictional units. In fact, the names we have prepared for SS units are probably more historically accurate than 'SS Badass' or whatever you were hoping for.
#35691
Re: The SS
I think that's a pretty good compromise. After all, the case that the Waffen-SS was a branch (like Marines, Airborne, etc) and not a denominator is pretty solid.
HyperSniper999:
Get over it.
That aside, the ban on Nazi-Symbolism goes all the way back to the terms of the Allied occupation. So, as an American it all still comes back to you.
Wartyx:
Can you tell me what pattern the Waffen-SS inspired unit(s) will wear? I'm really into camo-patterns, and I'm just curious whether it'll be plane-tree (platanenmuster), oak-leaf (Eichenmuster), pea-dot (Erbsenmuster) or whatever?
HyperSniper999:
Get over it.
That aside, the ban on Nazi-Symbolism goes all the way back to the terms of the Allied occupation. So, as an American it all still comes back to you.
Wartyx:
Can you tell me what pattern the Waffen-SS inspired unit(s) will wear? I'm really into camo-patterns, and I'm just curious whether it'll be plane-tree (platanenmuster), oak-leaf (Eichenmuster), pea-dot (Erbsenmuster) or whatever?
The fundamental problem of Democracy is that the majority of voters are idiots fueled by uninformed rage - and the Politicians do everything to cater to them.
Last edited May 28, 2010 at 11:54 PM by Schuultz
#35717
Re: The SS
WartyX wrote:
Quite frankly, I don't care what Merkel thinks. Taboo or not, using the unit's branch in its name 'just because' seems out of place when it comes to unit names in Company of Heroes.
We will not be using fictional units. In fact, the names we have prepared for SS units are probably more historically accurate than 'SS Badass' or whatever you were hoping for.
I was thinking just "Waffen-SS Infantry" or something.
"You can close your eyes and plug your ears and be afraid and ignorant of the darker parts of history, but always know that you're the one responsible for allowing those events to happen again and with even greater consequences and not know how to end the nightmare you did upon yourself."
#35779
Re: The SS
The Waffen SS should even have their own doctrine in my opinion. Their contributions on the Eastern Front were undeniable, they demand representation of some sort.
#35808
Re: The SS
QuoteThe Waffen SS should even have their own doctrine in my opinion. Their contributions on the Eastern Front were undeniable, they demand representation of some sort.
+1
#35813
Re: The SS
Schuultz wrote:
I think that's a pretty good compromise. After all, the case that the Waffen-SS was a branch (like Marines, Airborne, etc) and not a denominator is pretty solid.
HyperSniper999:
Get over it.
That aside, the ban on Nazi-Symbolism goes all the way back to the terms of the Allied occupation. So, as an American it all still comes back to you.
Wartyx:
Can you tell me what pattern the Waffen-SS inspired unit(s) will wear? I'm really into camo-patterns, and I'm just curious whether it'll be plane-tree (platanenmuster), oak-leaf (Eichenmuster), pea-dot (Erbsenmuster) or whatever?
If you are interested in camo used by germans, you can try the N'44 mod, which has a great historical accuracy! Their Panzer Elite faction have numerous and beautiful camo, so I think you will have some fun to play with them!
"Du sublime au ridicule, il n'y a qu'un pas"
-Napoléon Bonaparte
-Napoléon Bonaparte
#35814
Re: The SS
WartyX wrote:
Quite frankly, I don't care what Merkel thinks. Taboo or not, using the unit's branch in its name 'just because' seems out of place when it comes to unit names in Company of Heroes.
We will not be using fictional units. In fact, the names we have prepared for SS units are probably more historically accurate than 'SS Badass' or whatever you were hoping for.
Interestingly waiting for that. And not just that, the whole Ostheer concept and faction. :D
Post Merge: [time]1275108871[/time]
I imagine a doctrine like this:
Elite Troops assistance
Left side
Ostheer sturmgrenadier
A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu
Cost: 470MP
Possible Abilities:
Ability 1:Upgrade one or two MP44 Assault Rifle (60 munitions per squad member)
Ability 2:Add one light MG42s to squad weapons complement (75 munitions)
Ability 3:Add one Panzerschrecks to squad weapons complement (75 munitions)
Ability 4:Throw bundled grenade (40 munitions)
Ability 5:Use med-pack (35 munitions)
Ability 6:Use sprint free cost (45 sec)
Note:
Basic weapons: 3xMauser 98K +1 MP40 (sq. leader)
Panther Ace Call-in (Otto Skorzeny’s Panther tank)
A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu
Cost 700 MP
Possible Abilities:
Ability 1:Armour Piercing Shell (30 munitions per shoot)
Ability 2:Ambush (invisible, while not moving)
Ability 3:Tank Commander (increase Line of sight)
Tiger call-in
A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu
Cost 900 MP
Possible Abilities:
Ability 1:Armour Piercing Shell (30 munitions per shoot)
Ability 2:High Explosive Rounds (30 munitions per shoot)
Ability 3:Tank Commander (increase Line of sight)
Right side
Gestapo presence
Whit this you’re infantrys can’t reatreat, but increase the HP and accuracy. (not drastically)
Heroic Charge
Sturmgrenadiers get this ability. Same as the british.
Propaganda Halftrack
A Halftrack with speakers with passive ability. It can force retreat an infantry unit for 50 munition. Or give the Enemy negative bonuses, like accuracy or speed.
The concept of sturmgrenadiers taken from PETIKE. What you guys think?
Last edited May 29, 2010 at 8:57 PM by TheReaper
#35827
Re: The SS
I like this concept. One thing that I would chanege is the "gestapo presence" - I think better would fit the "SS-officers".
Lord wrote:
OSTHEER IS DONE WHEN IT'S DONE!
#35834
Re: The SS
Two points;
1.) why Gestapo?
Gestapo is the "Geheime Staatspolizei" ( secret police of the state ) and had never be an important part of military actions on the front line...so i'm confused why some people had developed the idea of Gestapo-units...?
2.) @TheReaper; Well...i'm a bit confused about your "Skorzeny’s Panther" because there is no linking with the eastern front and tanks and Otto Skorzeny.
Otto Skorzeny was a SS-Officer for special Operations.
He just operated with tanks during his "hungarian Operations" ( here sHeeresPzAbtl 503 with Kingtigers ) and "Operation Wacht am Rhein - the ardennen-offensive".
U show us a picture of one of the Panthers of the Ardennen-campaign. So all in all this idea is absolutely confusing ;)
1.) why Gestapo?
Gestapo is the "Geheime Staatspolizei" ( secret police of the state ) and had never be an important part of military actions on the front line...so i'm confused why some people had developed the idea of Gestapo-units...?
2.) @TheReaper; Well...i'm a bit confused about your "Skorzeny’s Panther" because there is no linking with the eastern front and tanks and Otto Skorzeny.
Otto Skorzeny was a SS-Officer for special Operations.
He just operated with tanks during his "hungarian Operations" ( here sHeeresPzAbtl 503 with Kingtigers ) and "Operation Wacht am Rhein - the ardennen-offensive".
U show us a picture of one of the Panthers of the Ardennen-campaign. So all in all this idea is absolutely confusing ;)
May the force be with you.
#35839
Re: The SS
Now I confused with the Gestapo too! :D I was thinking that the nazi party sends tere some agency to ensure, every order is accompilshed. I know there is a chain of command in the military, but I don't have any idea to integrate the doctrinal ability to the doctrine. That's how Gestapo came in. Any Idea, Lord Rommel?
I'm just brainstorming if there would be a doctrine represents the ss, what would be like. That's why Skorzeny's Panther there. ;) I replaced the Ferdinand to the panther.
Anyway, I'm in a research of the history of the ss and special operation squads, so I updating the doctrine to fit the Ostheer maybe.
Thanks the feedback guys! ;D
I'm just brainstorming if there would be a doctrine represents the ss, what would be like. That's why Skorzeny's Panther there. ;) I replaced the Ferdinand to the panther.
Anyway, I'm in a research of the history of the ss and special operation squads, so I updating the doctrine to fit the Ostheer maybe.
Thanks the feedback guys! ;D
#35843
Re: The SS
TheReaper wrote:
Now I confused with the Gestapo too! :D I was thinking that the nazi party sends tere some agency to ensure, every order is accompilshed. I know there is a chain of command in the military, but I don't have any idea to integrate the doctrinal ability to the doctrine. That's how Gestapo came in. Any Idea, Lord Rommel?
I'm just brainstorming if there would be a doctrine represents the ss, what would be like. That's why Skorzeny's Panther there. ;) I replaced the Ferdinand to the panther.
Anyway, I'm in a research of the history of the ss and special operation squads, so I updating the doctrine to fit the Ostheer maybe.
Thanks the feedback guys! ;D
Heh, a better option would be the 'Headhunters' ( Reich Military Police ) or SD.
#35868
Re: The SS
I think the SS need to be put in the OstHeer, at least as some kind of call in unit. They played a large part in the war in the east and would certainly add a particular kind of identity to the OstHeer. For example, for one doctrine you could call in a squad from the 6thSS mountain division as some kind of elite light infantry or some panzer reinforcements from the 1stSS Panzer Division LSSAH. Either as simply a few unique units or an entire doctrine, I'd love to see the SS in the OstHeer.
Army Group Command Ostheer Concept
http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=3702.0
http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=3702.0
#35872
Re: The SS
QuoteI'd love to see the SS in the OstHeer.
It is my unit concept.
Großdeutschland sqad
"Born in blood, live in Hell and inspired by the Valkyre"
http://kepfeltoltes.hu/100527/gdvolstad_1__www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg
Cost: 450 MP
Abilities:
Ability 1: Add one or two light MG34s to squad weapons complement (75 munitions)
Ability 2: Add one or two PPSh41s to squad weapons complement (75 munitions)
Ability 3: Add one or two MP40s to squad weapons complement (50 munitions)
Ability 4: Use med-pack (35 munitions)
Ability 5: Throw bundled grenade (40 munitions)
#35874
Re: The SS
PetikeHUN1984 wrote:QuoteI'd love to see the SS in the OstHeer.
It is my unit concept.
Großdeutschland sqad
"Born in blood, live in Hell and inspired by the Valkyre"
http://kepfeltoltes.hu/100527/gdvolstad_1__www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg
Cost: 450 MP
Abilities:
Ability 1: Add one or two light MG34s to squad weapons complement (75 munitions)
Ability 2: Add one or two PPSh41s to squad weapons complement (75 munitions)
Ability 3: Add one or two MP40s to squad weapons complement (50 munitions)
Ability 4: Use med-pack (35 munitions)
Ability 5: Throw bundled grenade (40 munitions)
The Großdeutschland was a division of the Heer ( German Army ) , They;d be possibly more elite than the Waffen SS Ever Was.
And i also agree that we can include the SS with 'Unique names' Like...
Scarfuehrer ( SS Officer )
StormPanzerGrenadier
Panzer IV Ace.
Etc.
#35875
Re: The SS
I own i was wrong:) I wake up 20 min ago, and now i drink a coffee ;D
#35881
Re: The SS
Jeah. Großdeutschland was the first "elite division" of the german army. But i think u cant say that division x is better then division y. All in all u can say that Großdeutschland was
better equipped and get faster and more supply then a number of formations ( same for Panzer-Lehr-Division at the western front ).
And about the Gestapo; well. What for a function had your "Gestapo" squad ;) Have your unit not in mind.
better equipped and get faster and more supply then a number of formations ( same for Panzer-Lehr-Division at the western front ).
And about the Gestapo; well. What for a function had your "Gestapo" squad ;) Have your unit not in mind.
May the force be with you.
#35883
Re: The SS
i like TheReapers idea that ss should be included trough doctrine,but i think it would be enough is ss would get just on side of doctrine.
well if i would make this on side, it would look like this:
foreign SS
cost-350mp,2CP.
5 man squad
equipment
4x kar98
1x g43-for squad leader(acts as sniper,same way like in british infantry section with scout upgrade)
upgrades
2xMG-34(50 munitions)
or
2x panzershrecks(60 munitions)
abilities
-sprint(active-30seconds,cooldown-45seconds)
-grenade(15 munitions,cooldown 25seconds)
-Incendiary grenade(25munitions,cooldown 35 seconds)
-grenade charge(40 munitions,cooldown 1 minute)
ss panzergrenadiers
cost-650mp,3CP.
comes with Sd.Kfz. 251
6 man squad
equipment
3x mp40
2x stg44
1x panzershreck
upgrades
3x stg44(40 munitions)
abilities
-sprint(active-30seconds,cooldown-45seconds)
-grenade(15 munitions,cooldown 25seconds)
-panzerfaust(25munitions,cooldown 35 seconds)
-panzerfaust charge-fires 4 panzerfausts(100 munitions,cooldown 2 minutes)
-camouflage(turns on when unit is in cover)
SS Heavy Panzer Battalion support
cost-2000mp,8CP
2 tigers
1 king tiger
truck with repair squad(would work like WH repair bunker and needed to be set up to start repairs)
abilities
-tank horror, even sound of tigers will make russian infantry retreat(active-15 seconds, cooldown 70 seconds)
-rapid fire,sacrifce mobilty to tear apart t-34's and other soviet tanks fast and from safe distance
-top speed ,take them by suprise and make chaos behind russian lines(50 munitions,cooldown-50 second)
well if i would make this on side, it would look like this:
foreign SS
cost-350mp,2CP.
5 man squad
equipment
4x kar98
1x g43-for squad leader(acts as sniper,same way like in british infantry section with scout upgrade)
upgrades
2xMG-34(50 munitions)
or
2x panzershrecks(60 munitions)
abilities
-sprint(active-30seconds,cooldown-45seconds)
-grenade(15 munitions,cooldown 25seconds)
-Incendiary grenade(25munitions,cooldown 35 seconds)
-grenade charge(40 munitions,cooldown 1 minute)
ss panzergrenadiers
cost-650mp,3CP.
comes with Sd.Kfz. 251
6 man squad
equipment
3x mp40
2x stg44
1x panzershreck
upgrades
3x stg44(40 munitions)
abilities
-sprint(active-30seconds,cooldown-45seconds)
-grenade(15 munitions,cooldown 25seconds)
-panzerfaust(25munitions,cooldown 35 seconds)
-panzerfaust charge-fires 4 panzerfausts(100 munitions,cooldown 2 minutes)
-camouflage(turns on when unit is in cover)
SS Heavy Panzer Battalion support
cost-2000mp,8CP
2 tigers
1 king tiger
truck with repair squad(would work like WH repair bunker and needed to be set up to start repairs)
abilities
-tank horror, even sound of tigers will make russian infantry retreat(active-15 seconds, cooldown 70 seconds)
-rapid fire,sacrifce mobilty to tear apart t-34's and other soviet tanks fast and from safe distance
-top speed ,take them by suprise and make chaos behind russian lines(50 munitions,cooldown-50 second)
"There are no desperate situations, there are only desperate people."
Heinz Guderian
Heinz Guderian
#35891
Re: The SS
QuoteSS Heavy Panzer Battalion support
cost-2000mp,8CP
2 tigers
1 king tiger
truck with repair squad(would work like WH repair bunker and needed to be set up to start repairs)
abilities
-tank horror, even sound of tigers will make russian infantry retreat(active-15 seconds, cooldown 70 seconds)
-rapid fire,sacrifce mobilty to tear apart t-34's and other soviet tanks fast and from safe distance
-top speed ,take them by suprise and make chaos behind russian lines(50 munitions,cooldown-50 second)
Wtf???? Ballance?