Unit - Reward suggestions thread:

QuoteMost of these have already been mentioned and declined. However the Medic Truck replacement is interesting but I dont think it will work because the SU will lose their only way to heal and the SU already has Outposts available.

Nah, I already proposed something similar for the Medic Truck(just without reinforcement because they have the outpost) and was completely shot down. I would not expect more reward units for soviets as well, they have too much stuff already. Although maybe this can be looked once Ostheer is finished.

If soviets would needed some sort of similar unit, I guess we could have used the M3 Halftrack from US :P.

Last edited March 7, 2012 at 11:17 PM by blackbishop

Quote
If soviets would needed some sort of similar unit, I guess we could have used the M3 Halftrack from US :P.

Now we are talking, lol.

I'm still holding out for  reward infantry unit that's upgradeable to SKS carbines--shorter-ranged and less powerful than SVTs, but makes up for it with fewer movement penalties (encouraging attacks on the move).

what unit would it replace? why does this unit need replacing?

I've made the case earlier for VDV as a reward unit, optionally replacing the Partisans; Urban Combat could do with a heavier-hitting midgame infantry punch. Partisans are useful, but they're not actual frontline combatants, per se, and I think it'd add some variety to give the Urban Combat doctrine an infantry unit that can stand and fight alongside Strelky, or hold the line if the player's going T1-T3. With Penal Units and Naval Infantry, Propaganda can do this almost too well, while the whole point of Breakthrough is to wait for the vehicles to roll in, but as things stand Urban Combat lacks a powerful midgame infantry unit.

Besides, every other country has their airborne forces on display somewhere in their order of battle. It wouldn't do for the Rodina to fall behind. :P

I sorta agree that the Urban doctrine lacks power mid game as the Sniper Ace or the KV-2 will take some time to get out and Partisans are kinda weak. I mean they are okay vs things like PGs or Volks or Grens but once they start getting vet or weapon upgrades or if they simply out number them by a lot, then Partisans become useless :(. But it is up to the balancers, not me :P.

sandycaesar wrote:
I've made the case earlier for VDV as a reward unit, optionally replacing the Partisans; Urban Combat could do with a heavier-hitting midgame infantry punch. Partisans are useful, but they're not actual frontline combatants, per se, and I think it'd add some variety to give the Urban Combat doctrine an infantry unit that can stand and fight alongside Strelky, or hold the line if the player's going T1-T3. With Penal Units and Naval Infantry, Propaganda can do this almost too well, while the whole point of Breakthrough is to wait for the vehicles to roll in, but as things stand Urban Combat lacks a powerful midgame infantry unit.

Besides, every other country has their airborne forces on display somewhere in their order of battle. It wouldn't do for the Rodina to fall behind. :P

Partisans aren't supposed to be a front line force. They're useful for being an annoyance. You ambush smaller squads or move in camo behind the enemy lines and pick off the retreaters. You could also fully utilize them by sabotaging capping and getting in/out of buildings with their incdy mines.

Same with Falls, same with Airborne, same with Rangers, same with Commandos. Too expensive and single purposed to be a front line force. Stick with other infantry units like Strelky, whom are designed to be frontline later in the game.

Last edited March 13, 2012 at 11:05 AM by Cranialwizard

The main things about the Partisan counterpart units, though, is that they're strong enough to take on infantry if needed. Yes, they're raiders and scouts and infiltrators, but they can also supply some heavy firepower in the heavy infantry role when you need it. Partisans are mostly unable to accomplish those tasks.

sandycaesar wrote:
The main things about the Partisan counterpart units, though, is that they're strong enough to take on infantry if needed. Yes, they're raiders and scouts and infiltrators, but they can also supply some heavy firepower in the heavy infantry role when you need it. Partisans are mostly unable to accomplish those tasks.

Paratroopas? Take on enemy infantry? Have I missed something recently? :P

EasyCalic wrote:

sandycaesar wrote:
The main things about the Partisan counterpart units, though, is that they're strong enough to take on infantry if needed. Yes, they're raiders and scouts and infiltrators, but they can also supply some heavy firepower in the heavy infantry role when you need it. Partisans are mostly unable to accomplish those tasks.

Paratroopas? Take on enemy infantry? Have I missed something recently? :P

I think he's referring to Falls.

Falls are the closest counterpart to Partisans but are used for different purposes. Falls are much stronger against infantry at a range with their FG42s. While stationary and defending they are extremely powerful. Partisans are more of a on-the-move unit, but of course are still decently strong while stationary. Falls have a selection of grenades to pick from while the Partisans have a selection of nifty traps and mines to use to sabotage enemy movements. Falls are also more expensive and have to be upgraded to FG42s to unlock their true power.

Partisans are fine.

Yes, Falls.

In any case, I see I'm the only one advocating for the idea. Pity, really. I wanted to see VDVs in blue berets tearing up the battlefield.

Falls are also more expensive and have to be upgraded to FG42s to unlock their true power.
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Get Def, Def, Off vet on them and don't bother upgrading them with anything. Keep them in pairs and stick to green cover. Watch them vaporize a rifle squad in 3 volleys.

IDK FG42 are devastating. Its like buying MP44s only better :P. And IMO you should get Off., Off., Def.

I think FG42s are like BARs awesome at all ranges.


Get def, off, off.

Watch them ninja Guards

Trannyhunterx wrote:
IDK FG42 are devastating. Its like buying MP44s only better :P. And IMO you should get Off., Off., Def.

No. Defensive vet have bigger bonus on lvl 1. For this combo go Def. Off. Off. instead - other IS silly...!

The only unit that is true on is the AC, who gets a small health buff with vet1 def. For everyone else, it doesn't matter what order you get it in.

That's incorrect IIRC. At lvl 3, Infantry get a 10% reduction in received accuracy as opposed to lvl 1 or 2 where you get 5%. For vehicles its lvl 1 that matters as you get 10% reduced received accuracy instead of lvl 2 or 3 where you get 5%.

Received accuracy for those who don't know is the accuracy your opponents have when shooting at you. So if its a 10% reduction then you are 10% harder to hit, and essentially take 10% less dmg.

AFAIK, that bonus is for triple vet or triple def only. We are talking about mixed vet and the order you get it in, which doesn't matter. In the end, the total bonus will be the same unless you are a PE AC.

According to COH Wikipedia the special defensive bonus applies no matter what the previous bonuses were. Well for vehicles that bonus is the first one so yeah :P

AFAIK the CoH wiki is wrong.

Trannyhunterx wrote:
According to COH Wikipedia the special defensive bonus applies no matter what the previous bonuses were. Well for vehicles that bonus is the first one so yeah :P

->

GodlikeDennis wrote:
AFAIK the CoH wiki is wrong.

The COH wiki isn't updated often and like dennis said I'm pretty sure their current information is wrong. It's not a very reliable source in the first place. Is like Wikipedia. Anyone can edit no?

They updated recently :P. Its quite nice now :D. And Im pretty sure I read somewhere else that the bonuses are no reliant on each other.

i dont usually trust the wiki. its good for unit overviews, but you should just go to coh stats. too bad the site is closing down. (stats, not wiki)

I don't trust CoHstats either. I only trust Corsix itself.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
I don't trust CoHstats either. I only trust Corsix itself.

How do you access a Corsix ???

Trannyhunterx wrote:

GodlikeDennis wrote:
I don't trust CoHstats either. I only trust Corsix itself.

How do you access a Corsix ???

Eh? Download Corsix's mod studio and open the Eastern_Front.module file?

GodlikeDennis wrote:
I don't trust CoHstats either. I only trust Corsix itself.

interesting. i always saw CoHstats as very reliable. though not as reliable as corsix of course.

CoHstats hasn't been updated in ages.

corsix is 100% reliable, as it takes its stats directly from the source. the only thing is that usually confusing for a begginer to understand what everything means in corsix or where everything is located. If you want to know any stats you can just ask any of the Devs here as we all know how to use corsix, and some of the balancers do as well

If you get 2 offensive vet levels, your fals will fire before they recloak--and the bonuses are worth bupkis if you you only get them for the first shot they fire from cloak in prolonged fights. Plus defensive vet lets them slug it out longer.

Cat wrote:

MaxiKing6 wrote:
1.) Don't want people to do something. Ask or beg them.

LOL beg is a option? Does it work ? ;D ...

Red Guard begged for an IS3.

Do you want something done for Ostheer?  Try something like this: Suggest a Rewards Unit for PE faction say 38T.... Nikulturni, PE is not an EF faction and has a low priority ... In making your suggestion provide a way to make the Design Teams job easier ... The Hetzer is based on a 38T chassis and that model is done and working ... The response will probably be "No way Jose. Can't be done" .... Drop the issue and let it stew. I have hopes and expectations my "Ostheer Suggestion" for a 38T made long after the initial window of opportunity for those things will be implemented in the Axis Minor powers Doctrine.

Concerning the Falls: Line infantry discussion: Use Falls as a partizan-like unit until they have to retreat to base then their low reinforce cost makes them effective assault troops. Vet debate: If falls get the same off/def bonuses as PG, (which I believe is correct), a regen ability while not moving is granted with Def vet. A major plus fpr an infiltration unit with camo, ambush capability. D,O,O.

Concerning Partizans: Not a line infantry unit, not to be used as such. NI is so much better if you need the infantry stopgap. How many weapon slots do Partizans have? Partizans work equally well in a static or mobile role. Use them to decap more often then recap. Right now they are too expensive. They should be at 2CP or NI should be at 3 CP. If Sov fast vehicles are viable, (I'm still not convinced), 3CP. Let the T70/T90s handle the sturms before they can upgrade.

BA64 as a Reward Unit for T90: The sandbox crew indicates BA64 is almost ready for testing. Possibly available from T2. Pre publication scuttlebutt is that it is too OP and Nikulturni concept-wise. It would serve admirably in the AI/recce role in T3 and could be dropped from the line-up if it doesn't work out. And its almost done. Downside trade-off for recce role is no AA.

Is a mobile OBR being considered as a Reward unit for Static OBR or even as a reward unit  for KV2. Its range limitations make it very vulnerable as an emplacement. It would serve as a stopgap for 107mm mortar. and Sovs have an artillery firebase as static artillery.

Last edited March 28, 2012 at 4:34 PM by Otto 213

Hi!

I'm quite new on this community, but I have played EF for a long time. I've tried many strategies, read a lot on this forum, and based on this I would like to make a suggestion. The balance of the game is great, all the Soviet units are interesting and usable. Only the tank hunter squad is a bit less often used. But with this little change they would make them a tactical choice. Instead of greater damage a new ability would be nice. I'm thinking of immobilize. I've made a bit research on it, and the main targets of anti tank rifles were the tracks, or the driver, but the result is the same.

The Soviet army used the Simonov PTRS-41 14.5mm anti-tank rifle, witch was a magazine fed, semiautomatic anti-tank rifle with a five-round magazine.  The 14.5 mm antitank rifles were put to a variety of other uses. Besides tanks and armoured vehicles, they were used to destroy mortars, gun, and machine gun emplacements. Vasily Zaitsev used a PTRS to attack machine gun nests, during the Battle of Stalingrad, where their sandbag walls stopped standard rifle 7.62x54R bullets. The armour-piercing bullets could easily penetrate the sandbags walls. So this is an other possibility to improve this unit. But I would prefer the immobilize. It could be the ability of the improved tank hunter squad and an ammo based one around 25-30.

Please think about it, because it would make the Soviet army more interesting :)

They already have TM 13 mines which immobilise AND deal huge amounts of damage.
Also the PTRD functions like the PTRS (Extremely fast at close range and Useless at max range).  Perhaps the model could be changed, yes?

keldar wrote:
the tank hunter squad...tactical choice.... new ability... immobilize.... the main targets of anti tank rifles were the tracks, or the driver,..Vasily Zaitsev used a PTRS to attack machine gun nests, during the Battle of Stalingrad, where their sandbag walls stopped standard rifle 7.62x54R bullets. The armour-piercing bullets......It could be the ability of the improved tank hunter squad and an ammo based one around 25-30.

What you are suggesting is giving "Men against Tanks" tread breaker ability and maybe focus fire to like the PE ATHT. I like the "Thread breaker" idea. THe muni cost to the ATHT for the same ability (35-40 muni)?

The anti infantry tactic you suggest: using the PTRD to reduce the level of cover of a crew weapon is interesting. I'm not sure how this could be coded. I think it a little to overkill too, since the PTRD has an anti=structure attack. The concept is very interesting in any case.

EDIT: Upon reflection I like this idea a great deal. All AT rifles like the PTRD, Slothurn and Panzerbuch(?) should have a long range and reduced penetration value as well as the "tread breaker" ability, from a historical relevance POV at least. I think adding the "tread breaker" ability instead of an additional PTRD for the upgrade would work for upgraded TH squads. THey would still be a soft counter and retain the 3rd rifle. THe addition of a fifth squad member would not be required. I suspect you will draw a lot of fire from the more reactionary element of the EF community. Such is life. I think I will use your concept for any mod I do with AT Rifles.

Last edited April 20, 2012 at 11:05 AM by Otto Halfhand

Rather than suggest this and suggest that, we should enjoy what we have and while we still can.

Your Philosophy is commendable but your motivation is obscure. THis is a suggestions thread after all. BTW: Take time to smell the Roses.

Okay, THs with "tread breaker" is not good at all (I mean it's OP, yeah). Suggest new units, new abilities are mostly being denied but they're somewhat fun and the creative are used in a positive way but this mess up with gameplay a lot. Sorry if my posts hurt something in you but I have to write this.

Dann88 wrote:
Okay, THs with "tread breaker" is not good at all (I mean it's OP, yeah). Suggest new units, new abilities are mostly being denied but they're somewhat fun and the creative are used in a positive way but this mess up with gameplay a lot. Sorry if my posts hurt something in you but I have to write this.

In 1.0 TH had Tread Breaker and yeah it was completly overpowered, like everything in 1.0.

and also TH were nerfed against emplacements and buildings because they were like a massive WtfUltraPwnBlob that could steamroll right through mgs, tanks, and bases.

good idea, and hisorically accurate, but as always,      balance
                                                                                      realistic

We have decided to avoid as much as possible using other faction's features, that's why Guards covering fire, TH "tread breaker", salvaging tanks and other abilities were scrapped and will never return.

Last edited April 20, 2012 at 3:45 PM by blackbishop

blackbishop wrote:
We have decided to avoid as much as possible using other faction's features, that's why Guards covering fire, TH "tread breaker", salvaging tanks and other abilities were scrapped and will never return.

god bless this decition :P

othseer will have trenches though? or is that scrapped?

IIRC its a trench but can be run over like a sandbag. So its not permanent.

ahh. good to know.  :)

stealthattack1 wrote:
othseer will have trenches though? or is that scrapped?

they won't be like british trenches for 2 reasons:
1)balance, b/c british have no flamethrowers or other dedicated anti-trench-weapon
2)to add something new instead of using the old british ones

as far as i know OH trenches will be more like sandbags but with heavy cover

blackbishop wrote:
We have decided to avoid as much as possible using other faction's features, that's why Guards covering fire, TH "tread breaker", salvaging tanks and other abilities were scrapped and will never return.

Thank you for at least considering this. The one thing I don't understsand is, if you won't change anything, than why is this topic open?
I know that balancing is hard, but maybe if the ZiS-3 76mm Anti Tank Guns damage or moving speed would be reduced then it would improve the necessity of using combined attacks. But it's your call. I'm gratefull to have this great mod, and again thank you!

They are focused on the Ostheer right now, they will be more open to sugestions later on. ;)

Ghost wrote:

stealthattack1 wrote:
othseer will have trenches though? or is that scrapped?

they won't be like british trenches for 2 reasons:
1)balance, b/c british have no flamethrowers or other dedicated anti-trench-weapon
2)to add something new instead of using the old british ones

as far as i know OH trenches will be more like sandbags but with heavy cover

Earlier posts on the trenches for ostheer lead one to believe they will resemble the type of trenches found on the Kursk map.

Otto wrote:

Ghost wrote:

stealthattack1 wrote:
othseer will have trenches though? or is that scrapped?

they won't be like british trenches for 2 reasons:
1)balance, b/c british have no flamethrowers or other dedicated anti-trench-weapon
2)to add something new instead of using the old british ones

as far as i know OH trenches will be more like sandbags but with heavy cover

Earlier posts on the trenches for ostheer lead one to believe they will resemble the type of trenches found on the Kursk map.

I believe we've done away with trenches altogether for something slightly different... you'll likely see it soon.

Otto please keep unpublished Ostheer things in the Devforum..

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