ostheer medium tanks

Then why would you get the other 2 doctrines?

Maybe because everything else is better...

That's not a great idea though tbh.

on wikipedia.org the Panther is medium tank http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panther_tank

OK we get it!

Pollarisz wrote:
on wikipedia.org the Panther is medium tank http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panther_tank

yes it was classified as a medium tank but Panthers specifications fit into heavy tank role rather then medium...

Even the Germans didn't know its true power!

Keep on-topic comrades ;D!

you woul choose the other doctrines because you dont choose doctrines depending on the tank but depending on your game style and map and stuff..you are just given a tank in each doctrine so as not to be unable to fight heavier enemies... so the tiger would go to the tank doctrine...  this is a kind of could way to historically make the game because the battles werent always full of tigers and panthers and IVs

blackbishop wrote:
Keep on-topic comrades ;D!

We are, we'll talking about a obsteer medium tank.

Not that obstheer again...

Beware the Panzerkampfwawgon VIII Watermelon.

"Ve vill make a salad of zose communist sweine!"

Lord wrote:
The problem are the heavy tanks of the red army and for this job u need something heavier then Pz III.
But what for a tank?
Panther? Tiger? Nashorn?
All in all those 3 tanks would have a qualification to be part of the Ostheer because they were developed out of the impressions of the eastern front. They were designed to stop and destroy red tanks and they were symbols for the battle of the eastern front ( try to image a battle of Kursk WITHOUT Tiger or Panther!!! Impossible! ).

I know that its impossible to not include heavy tank or tank destroyer. But Panzer III was the most numerous tank during that battle despite having both the Tiger and the Panther. The Panzer III in game should use as tank assault vehicle, have surprising ability but more dedicated to engage tanks and vehicles. Its accuracy and machine gun will make it potent enough to engage infantry, but it could cot achive success of M4 Sherman or the Panzer IV Ausf G as its gun lack the calibre to have high explosive. This make it more vunerble to 50mm AT gun, which the Allies have plenty of it. Panzer III can be a nasty weapon against tanks but against the Zis and US At gun or AT infantry, it will be a whole lot less potent.

I don't think anyone wants to see the Panzer III used as a mid-late game MBT. Early game to counter soviet blob would be wonderful, even mid to late game it could fill that role. I still build Pumas to deal with infantry late game even though they can be defeated by most any tank. Its all about location, diversity of units and micromanagement of units.

i don't see any problem of using Panzer III in late game with co operation with Nashorn for example can be fine, high number of fast PIII flank heavier tanks and Nashorn could deal with it at longer range, with some cool abilities PIII will be good thing :)

I am kinda tired of seeing the Panzer 4 being the medium tank of the German military in CoH. Why not use the Panzer 3? It could begin the game with the 37mm cannon, with an upgrade to incorporate the 50mm and the 75mm cannon at the cost of speed and mobility. Also the armor would upgrade as it were. Also, the Panzer 3 offers a unique gameplay idea, focus on speed while sacrificing power, or go for power and lose mobility.

Perhaps some of u had seen the Was ist das-Thread?  :-X

I'm interested with the Tiger tank. In CoHO there can be two Tigers on the field, it awesome. But can anyone tell me, what's the difference? I mean the stats of the Tiger in CoHO and vCoH. Except the funny overdrive and Defensive manuvers. What will be the Tiger's role in the EF?

TheReaper wrote:
What will be the Tiger's role in the EF?

To shoot at everything that enemy has with its gun and not get killed.  :D

Lord wrote:
Perhaps some of u had seen the Was ist das-Thread?  :-X

OMG, I love you. So Panzer III nad II really can relived its history in game once again. Wow, I never thought that our dream really came true. The DeV is so liberal to make the Panzer II, this is god send. A MOD that take our opinion so seriously! I will and forever love Eastern Front mod! Thank you for making our dream come ture.

Your dreams have been set very low :-\

Seeme wrote:
Your dreams have been set very low :-\

Yeah, I guess you are right :P I'm not that kind of ambitious person cause I am not part of the mod developer. I am too happy to actually see the unit I suggested is become a possible reality in the game. I'm no war expert or game pro, and I just wanted a good game mod that I can enjoy for a long time. I know ostheer in eastern front mod will go beyond this, but for now, I can sleep well knowing that my favorite german engineered tank will be an in game. :D For me, I am satisfy, considered myself living in a small country with small CoH community. Not much RTS games flow into this country, and Panzer III never existed in my game collection. But I always watch history channel and documentary of Achtung Panzer and the Panzer III was always my inspiration in my animation and concept art development.

Last edited August 22, 2010 at 1:54 AM by PanzerWilly

@PanzerWilly
Don't take Seeme' words seriously by now :P. He just miss his coffee :).

To see the panzer ii & iii in EF will be great :P!!!

I agree, the panzerII and panzerIII's have always needed to be in the game somewhere

Pz II will be similiar to the 234 , and Pz III to the sherman.

blackbishop wrote:
@PanzerWilly
Don't take Seeme' words seriously by now :P. He just miss his coffee :).

And he just talks to hear himself talk "Mr. Spam" ;)

*Punchs Griptonik on the face*

I hate this Mr.Spam title, I want to get rid of it.

But it fits you so well.

Your fit well with those cross and bones when am done with you.

i also love the panzer 3 in the ostheer
seeme ,you are mr.spam
you say useless stuff in every topic

Not all the time, I try to stay on topic. And I hate being called Mr.Spam.

Seeme wrote:
Your fit well with those cross and bones when am done with you.

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                          That was a good game seeme!! You guys played well, but the might of german steel toulk you and your buddy. Oh and when you quit out right before we won, the game locked up, and said we had been kicked out?... wierd.  How do you think it would have went if those pIV were all pIII ?                                                                                          The medium tank is very important to the germans, it just makes everything work. Notice that my bro was struggling under the weight of your inf blobs. He had no medium tank because he was germ-elite therefore he was forced to wait on panthers in late game. The PE mkIV isnt that good against tank hunters, so he relied on me for medium tank support.

Yea, my tank hunter squads would of owned better if I didnt forget to upgrade them  ;D. We did lots of mistakes on our side.

In late game you should always have a medium tank, if the Germans only spam panthers we would of won. Also some volks and MP44s grienderis would of helped.

And My buddy was Canielwizard.

Well as it was said in one concept Ostheer should be an elite army countering masses of soviets so even if want to see new tanks a panther is a must. A panzer III is a good tank to fight those T-70 and T-90. Some version of stug should be able to fend of T-34 and then panthers come in. A buildable version of a Tiger is a good option to counter IS-2. The uniquness of Ostheer sholud be its whole concept not the vehicles.

Comrade1 wrote:
Well as it was said in one concept Ostheer should be an elite army countering masses of soviets so even if want to see new tanks a panther is a must. A panzer III is a good tank to fight those T-70 and T-90. Some version of stug should be able to fend of T-34 and then panthers come in. A buildable version of a Tiger is a good option to counter IS-2. The uniquness of Ostheer sholud be its whole concept not the vehicles.

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I agree. the concept as a whole is very important to a faction. The british cromwell is a fine example of a factions need for a medium tank. When an early cromwell comes out at just the right time it can be devistating in the hands of an experianced player and can turn the tide of an mid-game. A good player can make use of a medium tank in many different ways, no matter what faction they are using. 

Last edited August 25, 2010 at 9:55 PM by vonhaggon

vonhaggon wrote:

Comrade1 wrote:
Well as it was said in one concept Ostheer should be an elite army countering masses of soviets so even if want to see new tanks a panther is a must. A panzer III is a good tank to fight those T-70 and T-90. Some version of stug should be able to fend of T-34 and then panthers come in. A buildable version of a Tiger is a good option to counter IS-2. The uniquness of Ostheer sholud be its whole concept not the vehicles.

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I agree. the concept as a whole is very important to a faction. The british cromwell is a fine example of a factions need for a medium tank. When an early cromwell comes out at just the right time it can be devistating in the hands of an experianced player and can turn the tide of an mid-game. A good player can make use of a medium tank in many different ways, no matter what faction they are using.

I think PzIII should have an upgunned Hothkiss/Puma gun on a PzIV chassie.
Ostheer should have a Treadbreaker ability or Stickies so that this early tank could be usefull in fighting SU-85 but it should loose a 1v1 to a Cromwell tank or to 2 well microed Staghounds.
It should be devastating with a StugIII and I hope that there will be an option to choose between teching up to a StugIII or a PzIII. Stug III should be better vs UK/US, PzIII vs Soviet light tanks. PzIII should be a reason why Soviets should get a heavy tank upgrade first, instead of going light armor like they do vs Wehrmacht and PE.
A quick T-34 should be a problem to Ostheer just like a quick Stuart is to PE.

Well the stug should form the back bone of Ostheer's panzer forces. I think that one will counter infantry and in some cases anti-tank cannons and have a short canon. The other should have a long cannon to destroy tanks. I also think that the idea to link infantry to tanks the way british officers can be link is very good. It can improve the cooperation beetwen infantry and tanks.

Panzer II and Panzer III are obvious

Dont take out the Panther!!! That tank is a BEAST!!!

ThGermanElite wrote:
Dont take out the Panther!!! That tank is a BEAST!!!

Do take out the Panther!!! That tank is a BEAST!!!

Paciat wrote:

ThGermanElite wrote:
Dont take out the Panther!!! That tank is a BEAST!!!

Do take out the Panther!!! That tank is a BEAST!!!

Hahaha

Well, I think the Panther could perhaps be part of the Ostheer, however, it should be part of a doctrine, since WH can built it, for PE it's a call-in after upgrading all other buildings and for OH it should be a doctrine-ability.

Again, I'm pretty sure Pz III will be OH's MBT. It's shown as Ausf. J with the long 5cm KwK and sideskirts, this tank can probably even deal with early T34.
We also see an Infantry-support-tank, the Ausf. N, 7.5cm short cannon, same as the "Stubby" Panzer IV from PE.

Therefore I can't really see the need a StuG III, taking into account, that the AI-role (earyl version with short cannon) is already fulfilled by the Pz III Ausf. N and shouldn't be more powerfull than WH StuG IV. Therefore it can only be usefull as (cheap) early-mid "tankdestroyer" to support infantry, a role which is in my opinion similiar to Pz III Ausf. J.

    Well, in my opinion it would be a mistake to make the pzIII the main battle tank of the ostheer without stugIII support. The pzIII with its long barreled 50mm L/60 is far too inadiquate to take on a T-34 alone, or in pairs. The T34 was designed to take on and destroy pzII,pzIII, and pzIVs with ease!! Even the pzIV with its 75mm L/43 was hard pressed to take on a T34. In EF i have spent many,many hours testing the pzIV against all armor in the game and i can tell you this... A fully upgraded pzIV will lose against a regular T34 almost every time!!                                              The german command also saw this problem during the war with russia and decided to have stugIII as tank destroyer to support the pzIII and pzIV in the anti-tank role. (They probly would have used tigers and panthers, but they couldnt produce near as many of them as stugs). The stugIII with a 75mm L/48 was a huge succes in combating russian tanks of all types. One of the most succesful stgIII aces was Hauptmann Peter Franz, also a Knights Cross holder and the commander of Stug.Abt. "Grossdeutschland". He destroyed some 43 Soviet T-34/76 tanks during the Battle for Borissovka on March 14th of 1943.                                  The stugIII bridged the armored support gap between pzIII and panther for the german armored fighting force intill the end of the war. I personaly believe that the stugIII should be considered for the role of tank destroyer for the ostheer. I realize that it is a tank destroyer, but if you do the reserch you will find that the stugIII accounted for a large portion of all destroyed russian armor pieces in the war, and was seen in moscow and stalingrad! Seriously guys do the reserch, its fun to learn the truth !!!           
                           

Thats a very compelling argument.

Seeme wrote:
*Punchs Griptonik on the face*

I hate this Mr.Spam title, I want to get rid of it.

lol do you want a trade???

on topic as I've said before I think at least the panther and in some form the panzer 4 both need to be in the ostheer since if the ostheer is suppost to represent the war in the east then the two main tanks of the german army should be in the ostheer.

vonhaggon wrote:
    Well, in my opinion it would be a mistake to make the pzIII the main battle tank of the ostheer without stugIII support. The pzIII with its long barreled 50mm L/60 is far too inadiquate to take on a T-34 alone, or in pairs. The T34 was designed to take on and destroy pzII,pzIII, and pzIVs with ease!! Even the pzIV with its 75mm L/43 was hard pressed to take on a T34. In EF i have spent many,many hours testing the pzIV against all armor in the game and i can tell you this... A fully upgraded pzIV will lose against a regular T34 almost every time!!                                              The german command also saw this problem during the war with russia and decided to have stugIII as tank destroyer to support the pzIII and pzIV in the anti-tank role. (They probly would have used tigers and panthers, but they couldnt produce near as many of them as stugs). The stugIII with a 75mm L/48 was a huge succes in combating russian tanks of all types. One of the most succesful stgIII aces was Hauptmann Peter Franz, also a Knights Cross holder and the commander of Stug.Abt. "Grossdeutschland". He destroyed some 43 Soviet T-34/76 tanks during the Battle for Borissovka on March 14th of 1943.                                  The stugIII bridged the armored support gap between pzIII and panther for the german armored fighting force intill the end of the war. I personaly believe that the stugIII should be considered for the role of tank destroyer for the ostheer. I realize that it is a tank destroyer, but if you do the reserch you will find that the stugIII accounted for a large portion of all destroyed russian armor pieces in the war, and was seen in moscow and stalingrad! Seriously guys do the reserch, its fun to learn the truth !!!           
                         

+1
In total agreement as most of us are on that point. Give this man a cigar!

Out of historical view it is no problem to make the Panzer III the main battle tank of the Ostheer.
A lot of T-34 tanks were destroyed by Panzer III. Reason are e.g. the fact that T-34 crews are nealy blind inside their tank or the fact that the scope of the T-34 is "primitive" and so one.
BUT all in all i think there is no problem out of gameplay view, too!
Perhpas one PzIII shouldnt kill a T-34 but in groups i think this wont be any problem.
BUT the most important point out of my view is the fact that anyone had said that a PzIII should be the counterpart of the T-34. We will see what for weapons Ostheer will be able to use against the red steel  ;)

Of course, PzIII won't be able to go toe to toe with a T-34 head on, but this is CoH remember, so it can still give it a good beating, especially with its extra armour upgrade :P

I think at first the when the ostheer comes out its gunna turn into giant tank battles.

Last edited September 1, 2010 at 3:24 AM by Lord Rommel

Seeme wrote:
I think at first the when the ostheer comes out its gunna turn into giant tank battles.

Heh, thats what makes the Eastern Front.

...

Apart from Urban Combat.

Well, I would hope then, that the balance between the fuel costs of the pzIII and the T34 would be studied and debated with utmost attention (as im sure it is). Of course guys, all would be forgiven if the ostheer could build Tigers in factories like those huge Is-2 are. Also, to be honest i am more happy to see pzII on the battle field! PzII is a german afv that i have been waiting on for years. It was used so much across europe that it deserves its place in the game. 

I can't impart my opinion at that time for what the Ostheer tanks should be, but one thing's for sure is that doctrinal units define a style of play, not the general standard of play.  The standard of play is the how the army functions without doctrine units.  What are its strengths?  What are its weaknesses?  With this idea, we can see that America and Wehrmacht are considered well-rounded armies, whereas the the Panzer Elite is considered fast and mobile, and the British considered defensive. 

With that in mind, you'll realize that doctrines allow players to alter their army's standard of play to a different style.  Picking Airborne makes America a more mobile, offensive army.  Picking Royal Commandos makes the British less defensive and more mobile because of their instant ability to drop three different types of gliders.  Picking Scorched Earth makes the Panzer Elite and even deadlier strike force because now they have the ability to use their speed with a deceptive offensive nature (booby-trapping).  Do you guys see where I'm going with this?

We need to develop the Ostheer as an army first, we need to define their standard of play first.  When that's done, we'll develop three different ways (doctrines) to change that standard to represent three different unique styles of play.