ostheer medium tanks

okay so in regards to medium tanks for the ostheer I think we can narrow it down for the ostheer to at least two I see that would fit in CoH and that would have to be the panzer IV or some varient of it or the panther. Now I know some people want the panzer III in the ostheer too so do I however I don't see it as a comparable tank to that of the T-34 or the sherman or cromwell in a game like CoH. If the panzer III gets in the ostheer it will probably be an earier tank than the main late game tanks. So what would people preffer to see in terms of the factory based tanks?

The panther is heavy tank, not medium.

I know but in terms of company of heroes I'm kinda reffering to each factions mainstay tank.

The Panzer III is equal to the Sharman in earlier version and superior in the later ones. Also the late Panzer III is a hard fight for the T-34. Its armour is thicker (but not sloped) and the gun has at least the same penetration.

Ingame it would be a tank which has a little less armour than the Pzkw IV but better penetration against tanks with its 50mm canon (long one)!

The Panzer IV shouldnt be in the Ostheer, because we do want it to be original. And the Pz IV is simply overused.




The Panther is offically a medium tank, thats correct. But in terms of CoH it is a heavy one. It also has "heavy Crush" as the only regual buildable tank without an upgrade.
Its performance against other tanks is quite outstanding and the only tank which can beat it in a one on one is the pershing or (panther without vet) the IS-2.

Now I personally have a problem seeing a panzer III being an equal to the Sherman. The Sherman had better armour , was faster and the panzer III had an all round inferior gun (yes even to the 75mm Sherman gun) which couldn't penetrate the T34 front armour in most instances. As I said before I can see it in the ostheer as an early tank but not a main tank to be compared with the other allied tanks.

Also yes I'd like to see more different tanks however the germans only built 9 types of tanks and I only see five fitting in CoH and four are already used so we'll probably have to reuse some.

Versedhorison wrote:
Also yes I'd like to see more different tanks however the germans only built 9 types of tanks and I only see five fitting in CoH

You gotta be joking. There is one hell of varity.

Paciat wrote:
I dont want tanks that are in the game already.

And thats what everybody who wants a great ostheer has to want.




Also the sherman was called "Pappe-Panzer" by my grandfather once we were talking about it. It means something like "carton-tank" because almost everything the shot at them penetrated thier armour and made thier muniton explode.
The Sherman as we got it in CoH is super over powered for the reason of balance, and thats quite ok.


Having a early/mid game support tank with the panzer III is a good idea, since its armour was equal/better (version dependent) than the one of the M4.



At the moment the only tank the community consider to be in the OstH. as well  - is the Panther.
Also there are tons of variations of the Pz. 4 - for example 6 different "jagdpanzer IV" which would fit quite good. But the usual one - being in use twice already - is no option.

Last edited June 16, 2010 at 2:00 PM by Venoxxis

Personally I would love to see the Ostheer have both a Panzer 3 and Panzer 4 but i would love to see variants to make the Panzer 3 a MBT while the Panzer 4 becomes more like a support to the Panzer 3.

My idea (I used it in my Ost concept) was to have numerous possible upgrades for the Panzer 3 and Panzer 4, but while the Panzer 3 recieved Weapons or Armor upgrades, or total conversion into a new tank (Getting the 50mm long gun, side-skirts or conversion to the StuG 3 or a variant of it)

The Panzer 4 become more of a support tank with a Command Tank upgrade (Panzerbefehlswagen IV) , a Brummbär conversion for infantry support, or a conversion into a Flakpanzer IV Möbelwagen to shoot down allied planes and pesky Paras.

Venoxxis wrote:

Versedhorison wrote:
Also yes I'd like to see more different tanks however the germans only built 9 types of tanks and I only see five fitting in CoH

You gotta be joking. There is one hell of varity.

Having a early/mid game support tank with the panzer III is a good idea, since its armour was equal/better (version dependent) than the one of the M4.

No I'm not joking the only tanks were the panzer I - VI plus the panzer 35, panzer 38 and the tiger II. There were many self propelled guns/tank destroyers but I'm purely talking about tanks.

Also the most up armoured version of the panzer III had 70mm of armour Max, whereas the sherman had 63mm of armour Max that was sloped too, making it better than the panzer III.

Versedhorison wrote:

Venoxxis wrote:

Versedhorison wrote:
Also yes I'd like to see more different tanks however the germans only built 9 types of tanks and I only see five fitting in CoH

You gotta be joking. There is one hell of varity.

Having a early/mid game support tank with the panzer III is a good idea, since its armour was equal/better (version dependent) than the one of the M4.

No I'm not joking the only tanks were the panzer I - VI plus the panzer 35, panzer 38 and the tiger II. There were many self propelled guns/tank destroyers but I'm purely talking about tanks.

Also the most up armoured version of the panzer III had 70mm of armour Max, whereas the sherman had 63mm of armour Max that was sloped too, making it better than the panzer III.

Tank destroyers are sometimes called tanks too.

Alongside the PzII (or a quad halftrack), PzIII and buildable Tiger I (one on the field?) there can also be:
StugIII with long gun upgrade
JagdpanzerIV with a Panthers gun and similar armor
Elephant.

This many medium/heavy vechicles (+ Wespe SP gun) are enough to create a fraction.
Theres no need to create a 3rd PzIV/Panther.

Last edited June 16, 2010 at 6:51 PM by Paciat

Panzer III and Nashorn i think a great combination... :)

GamblerSK wrote:
Panzer III and Nashorn i think a great combination... :)

I dont like the Nashorn concept (long range tank killer) becouse Marders and Gwagons allready do massive dmg (150 and 250) at long ranges (60).
There shouldnt be a vechicle that 2 shot kills a firefly or takes out a 17lbs emplacement without being in range of this gun.

but against infantry is less usable also it can cost a bit more just to prevent spaming

I think in the Eastern Front there was an order, that the Panzer III tank had to support the Tiger tanks. I don't remember exactly where I read it, but I think it can be implement to the Ostheer. Maybe Lord Rommel knows it, but I recall that this doctrine existed. And that was a lots of variants of the panzer tanks during the war:
Panzer I
Panzer I SiG 33
PanzerJager I
Panzer II
Sturmpanzer II (omly 14 existed)
Panzer 2 ausf. L was better equipped than the A variant
Panzer III (with extra armour, lots of gun upgrade)
Panzer IV and V (already discussed)
And the self-propelled tank hunters and assault guns.

For AA tanks ther are still the Möbelwagen or the Versuchsflakwagen Pz.Sfl.IV (grille 10)
Or VK1602??? but I think that was just a prototype.

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Damn, but some of these aren't fought in the eastern Front. I'm only gathered these for examples. :) It's 11 pm in here and I'm a bit slow. :P

Last edited June 16, 2010 at 9:17 PM by TheReaper

The Panzer III Ausf. N was part of the first deployment of the "schwere Heeres-Panzerabteilung" - the Tiger-groups.

In 1942 a Tiger-Abteilung had 20 Tiger I and 16 Panzer III.
2 Tiger I and 2 Pz III formed a "Zug".
4 "Züge" formed 2 companies.
4 Tigers were reserved for the commanding staff [ Stabswagen ].

Mid 1943 Tiger-Abteilungen send their Panzer III back at home because from now Henschel could build enough Tigers to supply Tiger-Abteilungen with the full strength of 45 Tiger tanks.

So all in all for a period of time Panzer III was a medium support tank for the Tigers. Panzer III should profect Tiger I against Infantry and other soft targets.
The Panzer III Ausf. N got "hollow charge grenades" to be able to destroy heavy russian tanks.

QuoteI dont like the Nashorn concept (long range tank killer) becouse Marders and Gwagons allready do massive dmg (150 and 250) at long ranges (60).
There shouldnt be a vechicle that 2 shot kills a firefly or takes out a 17lbs emplacement without being in range of this gun.

GamblerSK wrote:
but against infantry is less usable also it can cost a bit more just to prevent spaming

Its hard to be less usable vs infantry than a MarderIII.

Anyway, if there will be a Nashorn it shouldnt have more range, nor do more dmg than a Gwagon.
The only thing it can be better at is armor type (Hummel),
little More HP (400-450) and armor penetration.

PetikeHUN1984 wrote:
The panther is heavy tank, not medium.

Actually it's a medium tank.

@Topic
Panzer IV to counter T34, Panzer V to counter IS-2
i want both

i would personally like to see the panzer 3 and the tiger form the armored force of the ostheer.

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panzer 3 is a must so is buildable tigers

Lord wrote:
The Panzer III Ausf. N was part of the first deployment of the "schwere Heeres-Panzerabteilung" - the Tiger-groups.

In 1942 a Tiger-Abteilung had 20 Tiger I and 16 Panzer III.
2 Tiger I and 2 Pz III formed a "Zug".
4 "Züge" formed 2 companies.
4 Tigers were reserved for the commanding staff [ Stabswagen ].

Mid 1943 Tiger-Abteilungen send their Panzer III back at home because from now Henschel could build enough Tigers to supply Tiger-Abteilungen with the full strength of 45 Tiger tanks.

So all in all for a period of time Panzer III was a medium support tank for the Tigers. Panzer III should profect Tiger I against Infantry and other soft targets.
The Panzer III Ausf. N got "hollow charge grenades" to be able to destroy heavy russian tanks.

Woow that does sound really nice. That would fit in very well in the game. oO
having 2 tigers on the field and Pz. 3's (with the abilites to explained) would be kinda out standing  8)


And who the hell wants Pz4 vs T-34
and Panther Vs IS-2? Do you want another Wehrmacht?

hell, no.

Paciat wrote:

QuoteI dont like the Nashorn concept (long range tank killer) becouse Marders and Gwagons allready do massive dmg (150 and 250) at long ranges (60).
There shouldnt be a vechicle that 2 shot kills a firefly or takes out a 17lbs emplacement without being in range of this gun.

GamblerSK wrote:
but against infantry is less usable also it can cost a bit more just to prevent spaming

Its hard to be less usable vs infantry than a MarderIII.

Anyway, if there will be a Nashorn it shouldnt have more range, nor do more dmg than a Gwagon.
The only thing it can be better at is armor type (Hummel),
little More HP (400-450) and armor penetration.

i just think its not a bad idea to have it wehrmacht have panzerjager PE have it and ostheer should too, this is from wikipedia about Nahsorn

"After the first German experiences with the newer Soviet  tanks like the T-34  or the Kliment Voroshilov tank during Operation Barbarossa, the need for a Panzerjäger capable of destroying these heavily armoured tanks became clear.

Nashorn's gun was one of the most effective anti-tank guns deployed during the war.

The Hornisse/Nashorn made its debut during the Battle of Kursk, where they performed well. The ability to engage the enemy at long distances negated the disadvantages of light armour and a high profile and revealed the weapon was suited to the open, flat landscape of much of Russia."

so it think it represent ostheer well

Venoxxis wrote:

Lord wrote:
The Panzer III Ausf. N was part of the first deployment of the "schwere Heeres-Panzerabteilung" - the Tiger-groups.

In 1942 a Tiger-Abteilung had 20 Tiger I and 16 Panzer III.
2 Tiger I and 2 Pz III formed a "Zug".
4 "Züge" formed 2 companies.
4 Tigers were reserved for the commanding staff [ Stabswagen ].

Mid 1943 Tiger-Abteilungen send their Panzer III back at home because from now Henschel could build enough Tigers to supply Tiger-Abteilungen with the full strength of 45 Tiger tanks.

So all in all for a period of time Panzer III was a medium support tank for the Tigers. Panzer III should profect Tiger I against Infantry and other soft targets.
The Panzer III Ausf. N got "hollow charge grenades" to be able to destroy heavy russian tanks.

Woow that does sound really nice. That would fit in very well in the game. oO
having 2 tigers on the field and Pz. 3's (with the abilites to explained) would be kinda out standing  8)


And who the hell wants Pz4 vs T-34
and Panther Vs IS-2? Do you want another Wehrmacht?

hell, no.

good idea

Venoxxis wrote:

Lord wrote:
The Panzer III Ausf. N was part of the first deployment of the "schwere Heeres-Panzerabteilung" - the Tiger-groups.

In 1942 a Tiger-Abteilung had 20 Tiger I and 16 Panzer III.
2 Tiger I and 2 Pz III formed a "Zug".
4 "Züge" formed 2 companies.
4 Tigers were reserved for the commanding staff [ Stabswagen ].

Mid 1943 Tiger-Abteilungen send their Panzer III back at home because from now Henschel could build enough Tigers to supply Tiger-Abteilungen with the full strength of 45 Tiger tanks.

So all in all for a period of time Panzer III was a medium support tank for the Tigers. Panzer III should profect Tiger I against Infantry and other soft targets.
The Panzer III Ausf. N got "hollow charge grenades" to be able to destroy heavy russian tanks.

Woow that does sound really nice. That would fit in very well in the game. oO
having 2 tigers on the field and Pz. 3's (with the abilites to explained) would be kinda out standing  8)


And who the hell wants Pz4 vs T-34
and Panther Vs IS-2? Do you want another Wehrmacht?

hell, no.

Well the thing is the whermacht faction in CoH is well the best representation of the whermacht in 1944 operating in all of europe. The whermacht faction in CoH would be simmilar to just about any division picked at random from either the eastern, western or itallian front. The PE is a bit different probably focusing on maybe one or two specific divisions but it's really there for mixing up the gameplay. Also remember that the panzer IV and the panther were the main tanks of the whermacht (IRL) so its no surprise that they are both in each german faction. I personally wouldn't be surprised to see either or both panther or panzer IV in the ostheer but its up to the devs how they make this faction.

To be quite honest, I think the Ostheer, conceived as a German-centric faction, should be scrapped. I mean, what was the rationale behind making the Ostheer? That because you had the Soviets, you had to have the Germans?

We already had the Germans. PE and Wehrmacht. They are good enough at representing all aspects of the German armies, and... do we REALLY need a THIRD German faction?

The way I see it, Ostheer should either be scrapped, or be reengineered into a new faction that relied completely on foreign troops. Take basic German units like Stugs, PIVs and Grenadiers, and then slap in the allies the Germans had on the Eastern Front as the medium-high tier units with the ocassional super-awesome units like Finnish snipers, Spanish veterans and Tiger combat groups.

Saavedra wrote:
To be quite honest, I think the Ostheer, conceived as a German-centric faction, should be scrapped. I mean, what was the rationale behind making the Ostheer? That because you had the Soviets, you had to have the Germans?

We already had the Germans. PE and Wehrmacht. They are good enough at representing all aspects of the German armies, and... do we REALLY need a THIRD German faction?

The way I see it, Ostheer should either be scrapped, or be reengineered into a new faction that relied completely on foreign troops. Take basic German units like Stugs, PIVs and Grenadiers, and then slap in the allies the Germans had on the Eastern Front as the medium-high tier units with the ocassional super-awesome units like Finnish snipers, Spanish veterans and Tiger combat groups.

+1

Nation-specific armor (e.g. Turan-II) would be ok, but keep the troop names vague and generic (e.g. Waffen-Grenadiers*)to prevent my-nation-should-be-here arguments. Waffen-SS style Feldgrau uniforms without insignia should also do the trick. However, Gebirgsjägers should never be excluded from the OH.  ;)

*the rank prefix "Waffen" instead of "SS" was commonly used for foreign volunteer units.

Saavedra wrote:
To be quite honest, I think the Ostheer, conceived as a German-centric faction, should be scrapped. I mean, what was the rationale behind making the Ostheer? That because you had the Soviets, you had to have the Germans?

We already had the Germans. PE and Wehrmacht. They are good enough at representing all aspects of the German armies, and... do we REALLY need a THIRD German faction?

The way I see it, Ostheer should either be scrapped, or be reengineered into a new faction that relied completely on foreign troops. Take basic German units like Stugs, PIVs and Grenadiers, and then slap in the allies the Germans had on the Eastern Front as the medium-high tier units with the ocassional super-awesome units like Finnish snipers, Spanish veterans and Tiger combat groups.

So you still want spain?
This has been discussed serveral times. And we came to the conclusion that it isnt possible. The Ostheer wont support foreign troops, the foreign troops - will, if so - support the Ostheer just as it was irl.
And also, the Ostheer wasnt compareable to the other german "faction" they had other equipment other tank/guns because they simply had other enemies.
Saying, there is Easily enough to make up anther faction.

This has been discussed serveral times.. so lets end it up here.


Regards,

-V-

...It was only a matter of time before some nationalist makes another ruckus anyway.  ::)

Back to topic, the OH still has lots of tanks to choose from, not just German Panzers but also captured booty (Beutepanzers)---like the infamous Hotchkiss---which were used on the Ostfront. My personal choice for a well-balanced medium tank for the OH would be the Pz.Kpfw. P40 737(i), which had the armor of a later-model Pz.Kpfw. III, but with a 75mm gun. Production was taken over and was subsequently continued under the supervision of the Wehrmacht. Hence, some field-modified and up-armored versions were found to be used by the Germans in the East. http://www.achtungpanzer.com/ctpic2.htm

Another suggestion would be the Pz.Kpfw. III Ausf. N  8)

they would prolly work pretty well mid-game with fast & light Jäger vehicles which could be obtained sometime after the Russians get the T-70 (mid: to counter Soviet light armor; late: harassment). A good example of a light Jäger would be the 3.7cm PaK 35/36 auf Krupp Protze http://www.achtungpanzer.com/37cm-pak-3536-auf-krupp-protze.htm or the 5cm PaK38(Sf) auf Zugkraftwagen 1t http://www.achtungpanzer.com/5cm-pak38sf-auf-zugkraftwagen-1t.htm

Last edited June 19, 2010 at 1:15 AM by Werwolf

Take that back. Its just dishonorable.

I been around here for a very long time, and i always supported the idea of having foreign troops supporting the Ostheer.

I even always thought right the same way you do, just read futher posts of me or my concept (reward units).

Dont throw words in like that, thats not okay. I will always try to stay neutral, so no problem about that here. Maybe i said it a bit hard so i gonna forget about that here..  :)



Regards,

-V-

Venoxxis wrote:
Take that back. Its just dishonorable.

All right. Maybe I WAS a bit harsh. I was just worried that things would get off-topic, some people would start arguing then a dev would drop by and lock this interesting thread  :(...which would be a shame, since good flexible medium tanks are exactly what the OH needs the most  ;)

Paciat wrote:
I dont want tanks that are in the game allready.

We want the Panzer III's ! We Want the Stug III's , we want Variety!

STAYING ON TOPIC

With the panzer III I can see put in the ostheer in three ways.
*an early tank to deal with armoured cars, stuarts and soviet light tanks. In this form it would have its 50mm cannon.
*giving it the short barrelled 75mm cannon to be pretty much just like the PE panzer IV.
*have the panzer III as a flamethrower tank.

remember that the largest anti tank gun they but on the panzer III was a 50mm gun and so even that couldn't deal well with the t34 or sherman so I find it unlikely to be a late game main tank. And although they did put a 75mm gun on the panzer III it was the short barrelled one to provide infantry support. In the end we will probably either see the panzer IV, or panthers or some slew of tank destroyers to deal with late game armour. Also I am somewhat keen on seeing the stug III in the ostheer it would hardly look any different from the Stug IV so there wouldn't be much variation there.

Your right Werwolf ;)


Versedhorison your also absolutly right about the great usage of the Panzer III. Maybe i should quote the Panzer III of my concept which got all variation included:

Quote
- Panzer III (i wont name any "Ausführungen" because the orignial game also didnt do that)

  The cheap Panzer III rolls out of the Hall of GermanSteel
  with the universal 50mm short barrelled canon. But to give 
  this tank its multi-tasking ability you can upgrade it with
  several things:

  -> the universal "Seitenschürzen" upgrade
  -> the upgrade to a short barred 75mm canon,
      which shoots HE shells!
      This upgrade is fine for a tank based gamer,
      coming out of the Panzer Warfare Kommando and gets
      killed by enemy infantry.
  -> the upgrade to a longbarreled 50mm canon, which
        shoots AP shells!
        this upgrade is perfect for a infantry based gamer,
        coming out of the Infantry support Kommando, which
        needs anti-tank support now.
-> if selected the right doctrine, also a flamethrower upgrade is possible !

My opinion about the Stug III is also similar - without any usefull idea we dont need it in the ostheer because its just another Stug.


-V-

I like those Ideas giving it upgrades should give it some use in the later game stages when light armour generally disappears.

IMO, for Panzer or Panther to be available in Ostheer is not avoidable as they are the regular tank for the German in World War 2...
However, we always have ways to add them in unique way, for example through doctrine...
Remove them completely may make Ostheer look like not a force of German...
Just my opinion though...

Versedhorison wrote:
And although they did put a 75mm gun on the panzer III it was the short barrelled one to provide infantry support. In the end we will probably either see the panzer IV, or panthers or some slew of tank destroyers to deal with late game armour.

Actually, the "Stummel" short-barrelled 75mm was also designed to fire HEAT rounds when needed. Relic neutered it for the sake of "balance", thus confining it only to the inf-support role. *sigh*.  :(

Versedhorison wrote:
Also I am somewhat keen on seeing the stug III in the ostheer it would hardly look any different from the Stug IV so there wouldn't be much variation there.

There can be a global gun upgrade. Short barreled stugIII sounds better than PzIIIN - a c,opy of PE PzIV.
This gun upgrade could unlock a Tier with JagdpanzerIV(or Nashorn) and buildable Tiger I.

Quote
With the panzer III I can see put in the ostheer in three ways.
*an early tank to deal with armoured cars, stuarts and soviet light tanks. In this form it would have its 50mm cannon.
*giving it the short barrelled 75mm cannon to be pretty much just like the PE panzer IV.
*have the panzer III as a flamethrower tank.

Ostheer should have PzIIIL.
Its a version with the best AT cannon that PzIII ever had.
A doctrinal flamethrower tank call-in or upgrade (100ammo) would be great too.

Paciat wrote:
[quote author=Versedhorison link=topic=3818.msg38281#msg38281 date=1276925817]
A doctrinal flamethrower tank call-in or upgrade (100ammo) would be great too.

+1

I'd go for the Flammpanzer-III upgrade ;D

Paciat wrote:

Versedhorison wrote:
Also I am somewhat keen on seeing the stug III in the ostheer it would hardly look any different from the Stug IV so there wouldn't be much variation there.

There can be a global gun upgrade. Short barreled stugIII sounds better than PzIIIN - a c,opy of PE PzIV.
This gun upgrade could unlock a Tier with JagdpanzerIV(or Nashorn) and buildable Tiger I.

Quote
With the panzer III I can see put in the ostheer in three ways.
*an early tank to deal with armoured cars, stuarts and soviet light tanks. In this form it would have its 50mm cannon.
*giving it the short barrelled 75mm cannon to be pretty much just like the PE panzer IV.
*have the panzer III as a flamethrower tank.

Ostheer should have PzIIIL.
Its a version with the best AT cannon that PzIII ever had.
A doctrinal flamethrower tank call-in or upgrade (100ammo) would be great too.

+1

Werwolf wrote:

Versedhorison wrote:
And although they did put a 75mm gun on the panzer III it was the short barrelled one to provide infantry support. In the end we will probably either see the panzer IV, or panthers or some slew of tank destroyers to deal with late game armour.

Actually, the "Stummel" short-barrelled 75mm was also designed to fire HEAT rounds when needed. Relic neutered it for the sake of "balance", thus confining it only to the inf-support role. *sigh*.  :(

Although they did shoot HEAT rounds they still weren't that effective and weren't why the germans stopped building panzer III's in 1943 and stopped building tanks with short barreled guns.

I want PzPpfW. III!  ;D

@ the discussion about Ostheer or Foreign Army:

After thinking about it, I think it could really work to build a faction based nearly exclusively on non-German Axis states.

However, then the "Ostheer" should be implemented in the original Wehrmacht faction. This may sound like a violation of the Eastern Front's main goal, not changing the original gameplay or factions, BUT, it can be done via the reward-unit-system.
I've heard something about plans to add a sherman-jumbo and another unit as new rewards to the US-faction, so it should be possible with the Wehrmacht, too.

Reward Units should be:

• Ost-Grenadiers (replaces Grenadiers) - 5 soldiers with 4x Kar98k and 1x MP40 for the squadleader.
  Abilities: "Throw grenade",
  Upgrades: "MG34" (max 2) or "Gewehrgranate"

(max 2)

• PzKpfW III Ausf. L (replaces Pz IV) - Medium tank, cheaper than Pz IV.
  Vet-upgrades: "Turret-MG-gunner", "side-skirts"


• leIG 18 (replaces Nebelwerfer) - 7.5cm gun to support infantry.


• PzJ Elefant (replaces Königstiger) - Heavy tankdestroyer with outstanding long-range-attack-capability.

Main reason for the ostheer is for added gameplay from another faction and a chance to get other stuff into the game eg. elefant, panzer III. Although I wouldn't be surprised to see old stuff like Sd kfz 251 half track or the medium tanks in the whermacht and panzer elite.

Versedhorison wrote:
Although I wouldn't be surprised to see old stuff like Sd kfz 251 half track or the medium tanks in the whermacht and panzer elite.

the SdKfz. 251 should be a mainstay, IMO. Panthers and Bergepanthers (late- variant with dual MG42 instead of 20mm) wouldn't hurt either...

Versedhorison wrote:
Main reason for the ostheer is for added gameplay from another faction and a chance to get other stuff into the game eg. elefant, panzer III. Although I wouldn't be surprised to see old stuff like Sd kfz 251 half track or the medium tanks in the whermacht and panzer elite.

You could do that with reward units, replacing the Puma with Panzer IIIs, the Panthers/Tigers/King Tigers with Elefants, etc...

Saavedra wrote:

Versedhorison wrote:
Main reason for the ostheer is for added gameplay from another faction and a chance to get other stuff into the game eg. elefant, panzer III. Although I wouldn't be surprised to see old stuff like Sd kfz 251 half track or the medium tanks in the whermacht and panzer elite.

You could do that with reward units, replacing the Puma with Panzer IIIs, the Panthers/Tigers/King Tigers with Elefants, etc...

But do we WANT to?  I am sure that most of us would like to see the Ostheer as a completely different faction than the Wehrmact.

Saavedra wrote:

Versedhorison wrote:
Main reason for the ostheer is for added gameplay from another faction and a chance to get other stuff into the game eg. elefant, panzer III. Although I wouldn't be surprised to see old stuff like Sd kfz 251 half track or the medium tanks in the whermacht and panzer elite.

You could do that with reward units, replacing the Puma with Panzer IIIs, the Panthers/Tigers/King Tigers with Elefants, etc...

>Main reason for the ostheer is for added gameplay from another faction

So,i think the Panzer III needs some recognition.I mean come on.It's a strong tank.Us guys use Panzer IV Infantry Support Tank(which is a lot weaker) ;)

Versedhorison wrote:

Saavedra wrote:

Versedhorison wrote:
Main reason for the ostheer is for added gameplay from another faction and a chance to get other stuff into the game eg. elefant, panzer III. Although I wouldn't be surprised to see old stuff like Sd kfz 251 half track or the medium tanks in the whermacht and panzer elite.

You could do that with reward units, replacing the Puma with Panzer IIIs, the Panthers/Tigers/King Tigers with Elefants, etc...

>Main reason for the ostheer is for added gameplay from another faction

We already have the Wehrmacht and the Panzer Elite. I wonder if the new Ostheer, yet ANOTHER German-centric faction, is going to justify its existence when it finally comes out seeing how the first two factions already fulfill nearly every imaginable niche.

well wherm is really def and counter, + superior teching

PE is raid-fanatism and weak cars +end Panther²

axis needs early panzer to fend human sov waves but of course lighter end-game

xp speed and carac will deliver diffrent gameplay

vietlord wrote:
axis needs early panzer to fend human sov waves but of course lighter end-game

Agreed. Since Ostheer should be the army most suited to fight the Ruskies, they should get adequate early armor to combat their Soviet counterparts.

You want early panzer? I don´t see how that could go wrong balance-wise!

::)

Well Saavedra, wild suggestion but why don't we use a Panzer 35(t) or Panzer 2  8).

Both have very thin armor so the British mortar+ Button would slaughter em, the American stickies would = death, and the Soviet tank hunters......well u get the point right?

Its very easy to balance since early-armor would be tier 2-2.5 (in this particular example) and by then most sane players would have all of the above regularly available. So yea not destroing balance if u think about it too much.