Kalach (3v3)

cephalos wrote:
looks like the map occured to be total tank battle, right?

Advancing stopps when evry side has 2VP´s and holds them. Some minor fighting is going on but evry side is collecting more and more tanks and arty to break through. Finally there is a big showdown.

I dont know how the fighting would be with 3VP´s.

Closed Beta 3:

- Pathfinding improved in front of starting positions 4 and 5
- Added some obstacles (trees, hedgerows) in front of starting position 3 to reach a certain level of justice between the two sides
- Added shot blockers to the castle walls
- Castle can't be entered by tanks anymore
- Exchanged guard_posts_arm_01s by _02s at the main road railroad crossing. 02s are opened and don't block the way for infantry/light vehicles.

Guys I'm thinking about replacing the destructed bridges by normal ones because there's still little movement between the town center and the northern island.

Edit:

- Added a new pathway to the town hill to make the possible ways to it match the ones to the castle hill.



I'd like to see signups for this evening, also new faces if you like.

Last edited August 4, 2011 at 12:08 PM by MaxiKing6

Dzierzan wanted to play yesterday so he can take mine if he wants. Im on if there is a place left.

im not sure but i stil think that 3 vp would work better

one at the hill on the left, one  in the middle next to the town and the last in the castle


i saw it in our games yesterday, if there is no vp on the hill there was only in the beginning a little action for the sectors there. atfer this there wasnt any more

Yeah I'm game again. Any chance we can do it 1-2 hours earlier (or more) though if this is good for everyone?

There was a bit of action between the island and the town center but in the first game Burro had such a stubborn defense we couldn't get over the bridges. In the second game, Burro pushed over and captured our high munitions point but Cranial eventually pushed him off. If he had made it to our high fuel, things would've been very dire for us IMO.

I think the fact that tanks play such a large part is just due to the collection of players we had. Everyone who played favoured the tank rush. I'd like us to try some massive infantry battles in the town because I think that could be epic too. The wooden bridge above the factory and the main center bridge weren't used much because the first game was focused on the axis team totally trying to retake the castle area and the second game we pushed up through the RHS high resource points so the city capture wasn't necessary.

I liked the 4VPs myself. The island could've been a great target for you guys to take our main fuel but you didn't. Instead, we pushed up to yours. Burro stopped my big attack on the top VP over the bridge with some well placed (annoying) mines and some tanks. The fighting could've been a really interesting 2 front battle in that first game if I'd succeeded.

Actually that mine was Liberachi's, I had no idea what happened until I went back over the replay... a molotov set it off. You would have probably won that engagement had Liberachi not mined the bridge :P

That side was definitely weak though. If you guys had concentrated pushing through my defences at the top bridge you would have got through... only 1 mine defending it.

I think I found my favourite Axis unit in the second game; Vet 1 Flame Halftrack... even caused you to rage a bit Dennis :P

Yes it did. Killed an entire tommy squad in one burst. I tried to retreat before it happened but the lag didn't let the order go through until it was too late... Then another one came up and killed 4 men instantly but I managed to retreat that squad lol.

flame halftracks ftw? :D

Ladies and gentlemen, here are some suggestions. I looked at the area the fighting was going on and "placed" the VPs with PS to frame this area more or less. My suggestions include one 3VP, one 4VP and one 5VP layout, enjoy:








Furthermore I'd still like to know the answer to this

MaxiKing6 wrote:
Guys I'm thinking about replacing the destructed bridges by normal ones because there's still little movement between the town center and the northern island.

and would like to see signups for who's game this evening, possibly with one of the three VP layouts I suggested (you could also add some).
Currently, I note Killar, Dzierzan, Dennis and me.

I, personally, don't think it's a good idea to have destroyed bridges by default.

f*ck, I'm out today too  >:( my mates still want to drink beer with me and they won't let my play EF!!!!!!!!!! What a bad luck I have!!!!  >:( >:( >:(

I think the VP layout is okay as is personally. Maybe the area of town near top VP and the 2 +10MU points could become more accessible with the 4th bridge being prebuilt? Also, removing some of the clutter (mostly referring to buildings) around the center bridge (main road strategic point area) could allow easier access through the town. At the moment, the path between the town square and factory areas are a little congested. If I were to move any VPs, I'd set the town square and factory VPs to be a little further away, more towards the edges of the map.

I think the fact that we all went for tanks somewhat determined that we would fight mostly over the fields rather than in the town. If more people went infantry based strats the town would be more valuable.

There were a fair few good attacks on the townhouse VP I remember. My PG attack was sizable and would've secured it if not for the lucky mine. Cranial had several attempts at taking the area too, some of which were reasonably successful for at least a short time. In fact, I think the only areas neglected were the path between the town square and factory. The main bridge was used a little but the wooden bridge was barely used at all. Very few attacks were made through those munitions points.

Could the entire road be widened through the center of town? Maybe put a larger bridge in there? The Lyon center bridge comes to mind but I'm not sure how much bigger it actually is (if it is). You could adjust the building placement near the middle +10MU point to allow more space for a larger road/bridge.

Last edited August 4, 2011 at 2:42 PM by GodlikeDennis

Do someone wants maxim gun?  ::) And when we can play?

hm i must say the 5 vp looks best to me

@Dennis:
That should do

TheDzierzanPL wrote:
And when we can play?

09:00 forum time?

Can we play at 10.00 forum time? Because i will go to city and swimming pool. If you guys don't have time, so play without me.

I'm available most of the day.

I'm fine with every time this evening.

I think removing these buildings (red) could open up the middle a bit too. Let's see how the current changes go for now though. Also, a crater or wreck at the intersection just left of the center bridge strategic point in that pic could help with the early infantry engagements since there's a little too much negative cover there.

The earlier we play the better for me. 10:00forum time is a bit late for me if we want to play a couple matches.

Last edited August 4, 2011 at 3:19 PM by GodlikeDennis

Two matches as always should be enough, so let's say 9:30.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
I think removing these buildings (red) could open up the middle a bit too. Let's see how the current changes go for now though. Also, a crater or wreck at the intersection just left of the center bridge strategic point in that pic could help with the early infantry engagements since there's a little too much negative cover there.

The earlier we play the better for me. 10:00forum time is a bit late for me if we want to play a couple matches.

Even 9:30 is a bit late for him. I'm availible anytime but 8 forum time is OK?

OK won't go to swimming pool :), but i have to do something else (dig), so to an 9.00 forum time i should be back.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
I think removing these buildings (red) could open up the middle a bit too. Let's see how the current changes go for now though.

Done, I added a gate passable by vehicles between two houses.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
Also, a crater or wreck at the intersection just left of the center bridge strategic point in that pic could help with the early infantry engagements since there's a little too much negative cover there.

Done.

Cranialwizard wrote:
Even 9:30 is a bit late for him. I'm availible anytime but 8 forum time is OK?

Is ok. I'll start packing the file soon and submit it as always.

TheDzierzanPL wrote:
but i have to do something else (dig)

Dig your garden or what? :P

Well if everyone agrees, ideally, 9 forum time would be great for me but I'm not sure about everyone else.

09:00 is ok with me.

Hey, hands away from my buildings!

9:00 ok with me

teams?

Lets see we have Maxiking6, Dennis, Killar, ApeMan, DzierzanPL, and Colonel...

Should look like this I suppose:

Killar
ApeMan
Colonel

VS

Dennis
Maxiking
DzierzanPL

This ok? Or should it be like yesterday:

Dennis
Maxiking
Colonel

VS

Killar
ApeMan
DzierzanPL

I don't really care. You others decide.

ah damn

a friend is comming now
so im out for this match :(

sometimes its bad if friends just calling you when they are next to the door :D

We need another player, anyone interested:

http://www.mediafire.com/?re04b196l9e4z78

Last edited August 4, 2011 at 5:38 PM by MaxiKing6

I think the 5 Vp´s solution is better than the 4 Vp´s.



every side secures 2 Vp´s. Then the fighting goes for the middle VP which is in the town (Fighting for Karlach center was the main idea from cephalos afaik). Even when the middle point cant be captured, a counter push for a secured VP can turn the battle around. In addition the fighting would stretch across the whole map.

But the VP should be moved into the castle and the opposite one near to the fortification.

Last edited August 5, 2011 at 12:44 AM by Killar

We can try it. I felt like most of the fighting in yesterday's game occurred in the town square area anyway. I think that layout would actually push the fighting to the edges of the map though.

I don't much like the look of that central V.P. - The way it's wedged in between the other 2 Points just seems too cramped. :-\

Killar wrote:
every side secures 2 Vp´s. Then the fighting goes for the middle VP which is in the town (Fighting for Karlach center was the main idea from cephalos afaik). Even when the middle point cant be captured, a counter push for a secured VP can turn the battle around. In addition the fighting would stretch across the whole map.

Correct. the main thought was to prevent camping and promote 1) a fight for the middle VP in the town and 2) flankings, if the middle VP can't be captured.

Killar wrote:
But the VP should be moved into the castle and the opposite one near to the fortification.

There is not sufficient place in the fortification, it would make AI do strange things when playing compstomps. Same with the castle, so I put them to a location where it won't occur.
The locations I placed them are absolutely balanced, the four outer VPs are all in the same distance to the nearest HQ, the middle VP is near the middle.

pariah wrote:
I don't much like the look of that central V.P. - The way it's wedged in between the other 2 Points just seems too cramped. :-\

Fixed. I moved the munition point towards the house at the wooden bridge, the VP stands now in between those sandbags (where the munition point ought to be).


Changelog Beta 1.4

• Added buildings in front of starting position 3
  Reason:

  cephalos wrote:
  I have one proposition though. You see, in northern sector of map, there are a lot of buildings, which make partisan/fallschrim warfare easy. And we can't say this about south of map, where are 2 or 3 buildings for those units to come out. Could it be possible to add 1-2 buildings forming a small farm?
  
  Cephalos
  



• Changed VP placement to the 5VP - variant(this is only for testing reasons, if it doesn't improve gameplay, I will just take Dennis' suggestion again.

When can we test next version? Evening? Or it needs more suggestions to play.

I think this evening. The map itself is ready anyway.

Edit: [u]Download Kalach Beta4[u]

Last edited August 5, 2011 at 12:34 PM by MaxiKing6

Nice, 1.4 EF and 1.4 Kalach  ::)

And we have 20th page of thread, the longest mapping thread AFAIK.

I can start a match in the next 2 hours. If later, I can't do it sorry.

Well we need 6 players, dunno that everyone have time.

Looks like Maxi made beta open, so if ppl will dl the map I guess it won't be problem to find 6 folks to play.

I'll host a game in about one and a half hour.

Edit: Sorry, I can't play today :/

Last edited August 5, 2011 at 2:33 PM by MaxiKing6

After some days of inactivity, here is Kalach Beta 5:

http://www.mediafire.com/?5fr3k7fq1mfs885

Feel free to test and report the results here.

---

Some nice screenshots that show the whole beauty of Kalach:

Wow :D

Looks smashing.

I really like the picture from the river.

MaxiKing6 wrote:

I always liked the concept of multiple layers (Or levels) concerning height in a city like that :)

Middle VP should be moved onto the bridge where the sector point stands. It can be too easily defended by one side.
Then the house in yellow has to be removed. This side would be too
cramped and you cant build an mg nest then like on the other side.



The sector point on the bridge replaces the statue (orange sector), a new sector is made (red) and the medium mun is moved in front of the tractor factory buildings (blue). This way the points would be in the right place for every side

The bridge that was added in the last beta is not included in the minimap.

That is all i think

Thx again Maxi  :)

Last edited August 13, 2011 at 2:33 AM by Killar

+1 killar


@maxi great work

havent checked it yet but before we add the map to the pool
is there a) description? and b) needs a new loading screen (maybe burro can help here :D

I don't like the 5 VP setup. I think the back 4 points are far too deep in enemy territory. Basically ALL the fighting will be done over the center VP. If we must do the 5 VPs, I would move the North/South opposing VPs back to the townhouses and the castle. I would set the East VP to be near to the train wreck and add a small emplacement area (green) near the West VP to be equivalent to the cover the wrecked train provides.
Despite the fact I like the long center strategic point, I like Killar's suggestion for a fairer center VP too.

Please add a crater on the intersection just south of the middle VP.

I've also attached a suggestion for a slighty changed layout in middle that adds onto Killar's suggestions. The town square area seemed a little cluttered with the strategic point moved there so I moved the fuel point over to the +10 muni side and also moved that +10 muni back near the church to counteract Killar's +10 that was moved further back into the factory. I also considered breaking up the avenue between town center and the East fields in the same way the river breaks up the West, by adding some forests along the edge of the town (spraypainted green along the border of green territory). I'm not sure if you guys want so much foliage so close to the town though.

We should get around to playtesting the map again.

Last edited August 13, 2011 at 11:52 AM by GodlikeDennis

Thanks for your advices, Kalach Beta 6 is ready for download and I'd like to test the map today, I'm available from 10:00 forum time on.

Tacmap, including the two new houses in the south, the free space where one townhouse (that one north to the central bridge where the VP is located) used to stand and the bridge: