Ostheer Update 6: Ostheer Army Troops

wordsmith wrote:

edeka009 wrote:
Don't touch my Panther:))
More Tigers it seem to OP...and Panther is a good tank. What u can say about Panther II? Panther II vs T34-85 :>?

Nashorn
This is the Big Brother of Sturer and Marder. We allready have Marders, so next "born" is Sturer Emil...

Why bother to include new units if you can put all units from Wehr+PE and just change skins/adjust combat values?

I like Panther too, but I'm not looking forward to see it in Ostheer. What about making a Tiger which will have same combat data as Panther? Would it be ok? Panther model inside Tiger skin. And honestly I don't know where it come from that Tiger is OP, because there is no problem to decrease some of its values if this was the problem.

Problem is: U cant talk about eastern front without Panther and Tiger.
Both tanks were developed as answer for the russian T-34 so an Ostheer NEED this symbols.
There is no way around.

IJoe wrote:

MaxiKing6 wrote:

REDcommissar wrote:
ja das ubersetzer!

Der Übersetzer ;)

Sind sie ein Grammar Nazi?

Heir, bin ich. Was ist mit Ihnen?

:D :D

Regarding Army Elite Troops:

I'd like to add that we don't really need another King Tiger in my opinion. I'd much rather like to see some sort of ability which exchanges tanks/vehicles instead to more "elite" versions or adding veterancy status on build. Like replacing StuG III with Jagdpanzers, or something like that. Or Marder II starting at vet 2 or whatever. Of course with adjusted, higher costs.

Last edited April 18, 2011 at 11:16 AM by dArCReAvEr

wordsmith wrote:
[...]

Regarding Nashorn: it is still better than remodelled King Tiger... if devs have new model of KT why don't they just replace the present model in Terror doctr. of Wehr? It would be better solution.

Because everyone decided to get the Tiger Ace as KT replacement :). And we think a reward unit should bring a unique feeling and gameplay, not only a skin change.

Lord wrote:
Problem is: U cant talk about eastern front without Panther and Tiger.
Both tanks were developed as answer for the russian T-34 so an Ostheer NEED this symbols.
There is no way around.

There is always way around :)
Besides PzIV is far more symbol of eastern front than Panther and I haven't seen it included. Or SS troops (with different name o.c.) over Fallschirmjaeger troops.

Lord wrote:Problem is: U cant talk about eastern front without Panther and Tiger.
Both tanks were developed as answer for the russian T-34 so an Ostheer NEED this symbols.
There is no way around.

Hell yeah!  :D

Moonwalker wrote:

Lord wrote:Problem is: U cant talk about eastern front without Panther and Tiger.
Both tanks were developed as answer for the russian T-34 so an Ostheer NEED this symbols.
There is no way around.

Hell yeah!  :D

It'd be true if EF only included Ostheer and Soviets....but includes WH and PE. As such its more about delivering a different faction than it is about the 'must have units'...well...that's my opinion anyways

Zerstörer wrote:

Moonwalker wrote:

Lord wrote:Problem is: U cant talk about eastern front without Panther and Tiger.
Both tanks were developed as answer for the russian T-34 so an Ostheer NEED this symbols.
There is no way around.

Hell yeah!  :D

It'd be true if EF only included Ostheer and Soviets....but includes WH and PE. As such its more about delivering a different faction than it is about the 'must have units'...well...that's my opinion anyways

-1 No man! EF is super wow because it includes them all!!! :D
Thats my opinion

Zerstörer wrote:

Moonwalker wrote:

Lord wrote:Problem is: U cant talk about eastern front without Panther and Tiger.
Both tanks were developed as answer for the russian T-34 so an Ostheer NEED this symbols.
There is no way around.

Hell yeah!  :D

It'd be true if EF only included Ostheer and Soviets....but includes WH and PE. As such its more about delivering a different faction than it is about the 'must have units'...well...that's my opinion anyways

Let's hope this works, otherwise will be changed in the beta ;D.

@Wordsmith
About the Nashorn to replace OH's KT... Nah, there are other places where it could fit ;).

I would say that the Panther and Tiger are more suited to the Ostheer than Wehrmacht/Panzer Elite for the reasons Lord Rommel stated. So if only 1 army is going to have them, it should be the Ostheer. But since you aren't going to remove anything from the relic armies (nor should you), that ain't gonna happen.

So basically:

QuoteBoth tanks were developed as answer for the russian T-34 so an Ostheer NEED this symbols.

Simple as that.

I like Panther and Tiger too :D! Tiger is a symbol, true!
I was thinking at Panther II to make some diference between Wehr/PE and Ostheer.
My problem is that i would like to play with Elephant but same time i'm looking for Sturer Emil...
I don't know..i'm like a stupid kid who can't choose between 2 toys..i wanna both of them:D!!!
I know that Elephant is a legend but i find it a little "ugly"..is a house on wheels...
but powerfull..has an 88mm and 20mm thick armour:> . Enough to destroy Su-85/Su-100 :-?
The Sturer Emil has beautiful proportions, more beautiful than Marder I ( I find Marder II ugly too),
and is more powerfull...128mm :X:X:X...

What i'm trying to say...replace Marder II with Elephant and put in doctrine the Sturer Emil > 2 pieces...
2 was in their history too...and if u lose them (u r a loser then)...another 2 u never receive...just 2 pls..
or find u devs something to add them somewhere:-??
These tanks deserve to be protected on the battlefield...not Marders II..

It sound like a pray to God =))


Excuse my bad english:(

Nope. Elefant will be a doctrinal tank destroyer. About the Panther II... don't think that will be implemented. Perhaps could work as an option if the Tiger thingy doesn't works as supposed, but as this unit wasn't built in ww2...

If you're not the who you love, then love the who you're with! OK..but dress him with a nice skin;)

---

Post Merge: [time]1303158618[/time]

---

put in a "with" somewhere..i forgot it..

Last edited April 18, 2011 at 8:30 PM by edeka009

edeka009 wrote:
I know that Elephant is a legend but i find it a little "ugly"..is a house on wheels...
but powerfull..has an 88mm and 20mm thick armour:> . Enough to destroy Su-85/Su-100 :-?
[...]
What i'm trying to say...replace Marder II with Elephant and put in doctrine the Sturer Emil > 2 pieces...[...]

you mean 200mm armor  ;D
there is no point in adding elefant as a regular unit. it would destroy balance unless you make it weak enough which would not be very clever (200mm armor is quite a lot and an 88mm gun is good as well)...it is too strong for a regular unit -> like blackbishop said: doctrine unit

Tiger II in OH doctrine sounds quite disturbing, but I think it's totally OK. Devs clearly said, that Fortress Army Troops are about getting encircled and rescured. KT seems to be perfect "rolling bunker" and breaking through enemy lines. I'm fine with it, because while playing Terror Doctrine I'll use Tiger Ace ( who is far more cool than KT).

Panther II was never builded, only its projects exist, and you must know that the prototype can't be implemented in EF. ;)

cephalos wrote:
while playing Terror Doctrine I'll use Tiger Ace ( who is far more cool than KT).

But... The Königstiger replaced the Tiger Ace. How can you use the Tiger Ace? ???

Reward unit that devs promised us  :P

[quote author=Ghost link=topic=5651.msg65220#msg65220 date=1303158906]
Yes, u've right;)

Tiger Ace return!!!
Elephant IS beatiful,,,, smashing all

Batle of KursK whitH Elephant, Tiger and Panther,, it is AXIOMATIC

I liked original tiger ace better than KT ne wayz.  :) Its still in the SP demo too I think

along with tons of other broken stuff

I'm going to make some constructive criticism, not because I want to bash this mod, but because I feel it's important for anyone and everyone to impart their opinions, all for the greater glory of this mod. 

Luftwaffe Recon Command:  The only variation that makes this different than America's Recon ability is that the ability is unit-dependent.  That is, it requires a unit on the field to allow this ability to function.  I like that it's different and it certainly has different implications in the game, but at its core it is the same ability as America's Recon ability.  I understand it's usefulness, especially to allow Brandenburger to infiltrate behind enemy lines, but how is that 'ability combo' any different than performing Recon + Paratroopers with America?  It seems exactly the same, unless I'm missing something. 

Branderburger: Going along with the point above, these seem just like the other paratrooper-types (Fallschirmjagers and Paratroopers) in the game.  Hopefully their equipment differentiates them, but their implementation is the same as America's Paratroopers.
The Panzer Elite have Fallschirmjagers, which cannot paradrop into combat but instead can be deployed into a vacant house -- a key difference between Panzer Elite and America.  If the Ostheer are going to have paratroopers of some sort, shouldn't they strive to act differently than the Panzer Elite and America?

EDIT Did not realize this is a 2-man squad, I misread it as two squads.  I feel better about this already, despite it still having the same air-drop mechanic.  2-man elite squads have exciting mechanical and thematic possibilities.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Just wanted to make these quick points, interested in hearing anyone's thoughts.

Last edited April 19, 2011 at 9:10 PM by Nubrannosaurus

If I read one of the earlier comments properly, then the brandenburgers will be more of a disturbance unit (like the funkwagen) instead of like a fighting unit, that would differentiate them.

I wish people wouldn't criticizes heavily used historical units as being copies of others. Brandenburgers I would assume would be the most elite unit in the game other than maybe the Soviet Elite Sniper. I would also assume that these 2 guys could take out about any other infantry squad 1 on 1. Also if they could implement some sort of confusion ability (like the story already posted) many Bradenburgers could speak Russia so fluently as to fool Russian Officers (dozen of written examples that started at the beginning of Barbarossa, they were used to secure bridges right under the noses of Soviet border guards.)

As for Foreign Troops
The Finns had a nice AT Rifle that latter in the war was made into an automatic version. Would be good at hurting lighter allied vehicles and tanks but not so much the heavy armor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahti_L-39

Italians would be nice with SMGs, also an Italian Motorcycle group would be accurate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_Model_38

Hungary had a Panzerschrek on crack that is regarded as the best shoulder launched at weapon of WW2.
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=hu&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmilitiahungarorum.extra.hu%2F1920_f_k_rv_l_6.html (sorry google hungarian translation)

I would let the Romanians fill the role of the standard riflemen of the foreign call ins as they don't have the sexy weapons of the other nations but they did bring the 2nd most men of any axis nation in the invasion of Russia, so not to have them would be inaccurate. Spanish volunteer squad and Slovakians should also eventually be options.


Tanks for Hungarians I would recommend the Turan and the Nimrod 40mm flak tank. The Finns main armor would be a Stug but it would be able to ambush to differentiate, and the Finns were experts with there Stugs and had excellent kills to lose ratio with them. The Finns could also have a capture T-34. Romanians used the Renault so that could just be reskinned. Italian Sevemonte assualt gun would be there armor which.

If you end up dropping any of the abilites I highly recommend for historical purposes a Kubelwagon or Kradschutzen call in.
I really wish we could get a Kubelwagon and some proper Kradschutzen. It would be nice to have a light cheap vehicle that might not do much damage but were good at suppressing. Although not effective latter in the war, early war or early game these units would be useful and feel very authentic. The Wehrmacht bike is such a tool.

Nubrannosaurus wrote:
I'm going to make some constructive criticism, not because I want to bash this mod, but because I feel it's important for anyone and everyone to impart their opinions, all for the greater glory of this mod. 

Luftwaffe Recon Command:  The only variation that makes this different than America's Recon ability is that the ability is unit-dependent.  That is, it requires a unit on the field to allow this ability to function.  I like that it's different and it certainly has different implications in the game, but at its core it is the same ability as America's Recon ability.  I understand it's usefulness, especially to allow Brandenburger to infiltrate behind enemy lines, but how is that 'ability combo' any different than performing Recon + Paratroopers with America?  It seems exactly the same, unless I'm missing something. 

Well, to me sounds the same, as is not implemented yet don't know if will work as US Recon Run. At least Ostheer doesn't have off-map arty XD.

Nubrannosaurus wrote:
Branderburger: Going along with the point above, these seem just like the other paratrooper-types (Fallschirmjagers and Paratroopers) in the game.  Hopefully their equipment differentiates them, but their implementation is the same as America's Paratroopers.
The Panzer Elite have Fallschirmjagers, which cannot paradrop into combat but instead can be deployed into a vacant house -- a key difference between Panzer Elite and America.  If the Ostheer are going to have paratroopers of some sort, shouldn't they strive to act differently than the Panzer Elite and America?

---------------------------------------------------------------
Just wanted to make these quick points, interested in hearing anyone's thoughts.

I don't think this has anything wrong. I cannot think of a new way to get them on the field other than falls-like or airborne-like. Partisans also use Falls mechanism to get in and i don't think that fits them and probably will be seen as lazy(like some users might think of the current system as well). Besides, looks like Brandenburgers will be a two-man squad unlike paratroopers.

I don't think you will use brandenburguers to fight like falls/airborne/commandos. They should be quite resilant due to being doctrinal but not Rambo. Perhaps Scorched Earth fans will love them :P.

I edited the above.  I misread it originally and thought two squads were dropped in, not a single 2-man squad.  This has much more potential as a 2-man squad.  I like the above idea mentioning fluency in Russian and/or cloaking or at least something that disguises them.

Nubrannosaurus wrote:
I edited the above.  I misread it originally and thought two squads were dropped in, not a single 2-man squad.  This has much more potential as a 2-man squad.  I like the above idea mentioning fluency in Russian and/or cloaking or at least something that disguises them.

You can bet it that will be an unique unit ;D!!

I just talked with Dragon and said that Storch Run won't work as(or be like) US Recon Run...

I doubt, it can be implemented, but if they could dress up in the enemy uniform (timed ability) and appear to the enemy as a unit of his own color, only being vulnerable to force-fire, that would be interesting.

IJoe wrote:
I doubt, it can be implemented, but if they could dress up in the enemy uniform (timed ability) and appear to the enemy as a unit of his own color, only being vulnerable to force-fire, that would be interesting.

I dont like the who pushes the most buttons wins idea. Nor a game where you dress up. :P

What I mean is your own units don't auto-aim each other, so if you were able to spot these, you would have to specifically order your troops to fire at them.

Interesting idea, IJoe... Also, i would LOVE to play Dress-Up in Company Of Heroes! :D

purse swingin sally :P

so how about reinforcing  those 88's  ;D

kakatrot wrote:
so how about reinforcing  those 88's  ;D

read 2.7 changelog

vonklaus wrote:
I wish people wouldn't criticizes heavily used historical units as being copies of others. Brandenburgers I would assume would be the most elite unit in the game other than maybe the Soviet Elite Sniper. I would also assume that these 2 guys could take out about any other infantry squad 1 on 1. Also if they could implement some sort of confusion ability (like the story already posted) many Bradenburgers could speak Russia so fluently as to fool Russian Officers (dozen of written examples that started at the beginning of Barbarossa, they were used to secure bridges right under the noses of Soviet border guards.)

As for Foreign Troops
The Finns had a nice AT Rifle that latter in the war was made into an automatic version. Would be good at hurting lighter allied vehicles and tanks but not so much the heavy armor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahti_L-39

Italians would be nice with SMGs, also an Italian Motorcycle group would be accurate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_Model_38

Hungary had a Panzerschrek on crack that is regarded as the best shoulder launched at weapon of WW2.
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=hu&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmilitiahungarorum.extra.hu%2F1920_f_k_rv_l_6.html (sorry google hungarian translation)

I would let the Romanians fill the role of the standard riflemen of the foreign call ins as they don't have the sexy weapons of the other nations but they did bring the 2nd most men of any axis nation in the invasion of Russia, so not to have them would be inaccurate. Spanish volunteer squad and Slovakians should also eventually be options.


Tanks for Hungarians I would recommend the Turan and the Nimrod 40mm flak tank. The Finns main armor would be a Stug but it would be able to ambush to differentiate, and the Finns were experts with there Stugs and had excellent kills to lose ratio with them. The Finns could also have a capture T-34. Romanians used the Renault so that could just be reskinned. Italian Sevemonte assualt gun would be there armor which.

If you end up dropping any of the abilites I highly recommend for historical purposes a Kubelwagon or Kradschutzen call in.
I really wish we could get a Kubelwagon and some proper Kradschutzen. It would be nice to have a light cheap vehicle that might not do much damage but were good at suppressing. Although not effective latter in the war, early war or early game these units would be useful and feel very authentic. The Wehrmacht bike is such a tool.

+1 but the Romanians in Stalingrant were alot! EF has to add them!

Paciat wrote:

IJoe wrote:
I doubt, it can be implemented, but if they could dress up in the enemy uniform (timed ability) and appear to the enemy as a unit of his own color, only being vulnerable to force-fire, that would be interesting.

I dont like the who pushes the most buttons wins idea. Nor a game where you dress up. :P

In game terms,what you could do, is give them cloak and normal movement, but make them so they can be detected at twice the distance a sniper would. That way you represent them being ignored  and move around freely, unless someone gets close to them and realize they're germans

I don't think being disguised as trees is as fun as being disguised as the enemy. :(

Hmmm, I notice that the foreign support tanks. I don't know......I felt that foreign tanks that actually used in the Eastern Front are made up of lighter tanks that is, sorry to say this: soft and squishy. I wish that it was either the Czeh tanks or Hungarian or Romanians tanks. French.......no cause I did not hear much of French tank used in the Eastern Front, maybe not used at all. I like to see tanks such as the Panzer 38t and 35t, which I play in Theater Of War, it look soft and squishy but used tactically it was even superior than some Axis tank at that time. Flak tanks also a welcome  ;D Especially Flakpanzer I, or Mobelwagen.

PanzerWilly wrote:
Hmmm, I notice that the foreign support tanks. I don't know......I felt that foreign tanks that actually used in the Eastern Front are made up of lighter tanks that is, sorry to say this: soft and squishy. I wish that it was either the Czeh tanks or Hungarian or Romanians tanks. French.......no cause I did not hear much of French tank used in the Eastern Front, maybe not used at all. I like to see tanks such as the Panzer 38t and 35t, which I play in Theater Of War, it look soft and squishy but used tactically it was even superior than some Axis tank at that time. Flak tanks also a welcome  ;D Especially Flakpanzer I, or Mobelwagen.

Some B1 and Somua were used during the war in the eastern front,might be fun to have a B1 under your command.

Ettore wrote:
Some B1 and Somua were used during the war in the eastern front,might be fun to have a B1 under your command.

This is nice, because an other mod (don't remember its correct name) has created both the Somua and the B1.

Personally, I would love to see Panzer 38 (t). That would be highscore, bingo and jackpot. :D

EDIT: @devs:

- Which foreign tanks will be included?

- Will the next update be in the middle of the month again and what will it be about?

Last edited April 20, 2011 at 6:23 PM by MaxiKing6

Emil, Panther II, and the mouse were prototypes that should not be engaged in ostherr. T-38 were really cool as a light support function ...

ps the elephant has destroyed over 500 enemy vehicles at Kursk and it lost only 20  ;D

Last edited April 21, 2011 at 4:22 PM by HasTler

500 vehicles...
Then that battle must've been mostly fought by that elephant, and a couple of tigers...

HasTler wrote:
Emil, Panther II, and the mouse were prototypes that should not be engaged in ostherr. T-38 were really cool as a light support function ...

ps the elephant has destroyed over 500 enemy vehicles at Kursk and it lost only 20  ;D

I think Sturer Emil has more chances than Panther II or maus... heck even Panther II has more chances than maus :-\. The problem with the maus besides being a prototype is that is a fail prototype and breaks every CoH balance rule now and then, it's not a unit that you can tweak to make it "balanced". I don't know why many users like the Maus :-X.

Last edited April 21, 2011 at 5:00 PM by blackbishop

blackbishop wrote:

HasTler wrote:
Emil, Panther II, and the mouse were prototypes that should not be engaged in ostherr. T-38 were really cool as a light support function ...

ps the elephant has destroyed over 500 enemy vehicles at Kursk and it lost only 20  ;D

I think Sturer Emil has more chances than Panther II or maus... heck even Panther II has more chances than maus :-\. The problem with the maus besides being a prototype is that is a fail prototype and breaks every CoH balance rule now and then, it's not a unit that you can tweak to make it "balanced". I don't know why many users like the Maus :-X.

because a lot of user play World of Tanks :D

Sturer Emil was an experiment is true. Two vehicles (named Max and Moritz) were built, both of which served on the Eastern Front. One vehicle was destroyed, the other captured at Stalingrad in January 1943, with 22 kill marks painted on the barrel.
Hitler would  be order about 100 tanks hunters Emil Sturer type, but due to limited resources and events from the front, the project was abandoned.(wiki)

---

Post Merge: [time]1303411367[/time]

---

Paciat wrote:
It seems balanced. :)
I doubt there will be achance for a 2 CP tank (Toldi) but some foreign ACs would be nice.

Both look good!! Especially Tatra!

Last edited April 21, 2011 at 6:42 PM by edeka009

^^just what axis needs more useless and gimmicky AC's and HT's  :P

HasTler wrote:
ps the elephant has destroyed over 500 enemy vehicles at Kursk and it lost only 20  ;D

Thats sounds like false propoganda  :P but its irrelevant anyway. What pride is their in kill/death ratios if you're defeated? none

Last edited April 21, 2011 at 9:13 PM by REDcommissar

I am late on this conversation but what the heck. I AM IN FAVOR OF THE KING TIGER!! Please keep in the Ostheer. I would love the Nashorn to replace the Marder II along with the Tiger I replacing the Panther. My final request is that you include some kind Anti-Tank emplacement in the defense doctrine. Thanks and reply if you can.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-279-0950-09%2C_Russland%2C_Jagdpanzer_Nashorn-Hornisse.jpg

HerrVoss wrote:
include some kind Anti-Tank emplacement in the defense doctrine.

but on the eastern front the germans were mostly racing across the countryside and the only time they had to dig in was in city fighting. in which case the schrek was sufficient for AT  ???

OH can non-doctrinally build pantherturms I believe, with fortress pioneers.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
OH can non-doctrinally build pantherturms I believe, with fortress pioneers.

Not as afaik. But perhaps they will, if the ketten-like thingy is done.

blackbishop wrote:

GodlikeDennis wrote:
OH can non-doctrinally build pantherturms I believe, with fortress pioneers.

Not as afaik. But perhaps they will, if the ketten-like thingy is done.

Ad some captured viechels like Capped T-34s capped Pz4s and some thing of the sort ;D