Archived topic · 186 posts

Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

Announcements

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 16, 2011 at 9:36 AM

Or else,you could use some "trench" objects found in the great variety of of the maps (those, that cannot be actually "occupied" the way buildings are). I don't think there's a strong need of new animations for them, for there are several stages of destruction of those things. The latter could be used to illustrate the building stages (that is, fires and burning imply would have to be removed;))

If you want a picture of the future,
imagine a boot stamping on a human face
— forever.

#55006

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 16, 2011 at 11:38 AM

Finally an infantry support gun!! good against those early game conscript spam. i dun tink the schutzen war camp is OP cus u can only use 1pool upgrade..anywAY,THE KRAUTS DESPERATELY need something 2 counter soviets early game infantry spamming...the panzer 2 luch is a good counter...

#55007

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 16, 2011 at 11:44 AM

I think cephalos is spot-on with his idea. It looks fresh, it utilizes the proven mechanics and as long as you wouldn't be able to cordon of half of the map with it it also shouldn't pose any balance problems.

#55013

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 16, 2011 at 5:00 PM

I'm getting more and more excited for the Ostheer with every update. I can't wait to play as them!

I think I would have liked the regular Panzer II more but that's far too late to change now (not to mention mostly irrelevant, I just like how the original looks better)

#55015

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 16, 2011 at 5:25 PM

Baker wrote:
I'm getting more and more excited for the Ostheer with every update. I can't wait to play as them!

I think I would have liked the regular Panzer II more but that's far too late to change now (not to mention mostly irrelevant, I just like how the original looks better)

Regular PzII could be a reward unit in the future since we also have that model.

Smells like. Victory.

#55089

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 17, 2011 at 8:02 PM

Am Still wondering why this wasn't in the donaters forum first? ???

The Russians think there sooo tough, wait till the Ostheer comes...

Coh Name: Seeme

#55093

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 17, 2011 at 8:07 PM

This all looks great. I'm looking foward to this heaps.

[insert signature here]

#55096

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 17, 2011 at 8:09 PM

Maybe because the donors are obsolete now?

#55097

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 17, 2011 at 8:10 PM

Seeme wrote:
Am Still wondering why this wasn't in the donaters forum first? ???

My bad, i forgotten to place it there XD.

pariah wrote:
Maybe because the donors are obsolete now?

I'm not used yet to post stuff there first. Not going to happen with the next ostheer sneaky peaky.

Mors Indecepta

Might controls everything, and without strength you cannot protect anything. Let alone yourself...

#55100

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 17, 2011 at 8:16 PM

Well, they are your rules, but i honestly think that everybody should get this information at the same time...

#55116

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 17, 2011 at 10:51 PM

I agree with you lot about the trenches. Unless we make them different in function and appearance, it does seem like a cheap cop-out.

#55117

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 17, 2011 at 10:56 PM

Forgive my ignorance :-\ but...what are Czech Hedgehogs? :P

Last edited January 17, 2011 at 11:02 PM by Moonwalker

#55118

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 17, 2011 at 11:08 PM

Moonwalker wrote:
Forgive my ignorance :-\ but...what are Czech Hedgehogs? :P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_hedgehog

Lord wrote:
OSTHEER IS DONE WHEN IT'S DONE!

#55119

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 17, 2011 at 11:13 PM

So basically they are the same as Yankee Hedgehogs?

#55120

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 17, 2011 at 11:15 PM

cephalos wrote:
Moonwalker wrote:
Forgive my ignorance :-\ but...what are Czech Hedgehogs? :P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_hedgehog

Oh, ok...simply tank-trap. :)

I know it with another name. Thanks. ;)

#55123

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 17, 2011 at 11:21 PM

pariah wrote:
So basically they are the same as Yankee Hedgehogs?

The Americans in CoH uses Czech Hedgehogs :>

Valar Morghulis

Quote
[CoH:EF-Dev]Walki: BULLSHIT
[CoH:EF-Dev]Walki: I'll eat a tree if this won't work now
[CoH:EF-Dev]Rizz: ok
[CoH:EF-Dev]Rizz: I'll hold you to it
<10 minutes later>
[CoH:EF-Dev]Walki: I think I really gotta eat a tree...
[CoH:EF-Dev]Walki: got a decent one?

#55140

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 11:57 AM

Nice concept, looks like Lord Rommels (old) idea of the Ostheer.

Why don't you use the EF-Twitter Account anymore?

PS: If you want to write an "ü" (in Schütze), use "ü" in html.

#55142

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 12:03 PM

Or you could, you know, just change the keyboard language to German... Although i still have an English keyboard, which is annoying, but yeah...

#55145

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 12:12 PM

Certainly. To donate is to give someone something without expecting/wanting anything in return. Otherwise it would be buying/bribing/hiring.

#55149

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 12:23 PM

Sorry, I accidentally deleted my post, previous to that last of pariah. So, I decided to restore it for the sake of common sense.

pariah wrote:
Certainly. To donate is to give someone something without expecting/wanting anything in return. Otherwise it would be buying/bribing/hiring.

pariah wrote:
Well, they are your rules, but i honestly think that everybody should get this information at the same time...

Truly so. I mean, donation should be an act of free will, done without any profit acquired. That's like a dictionary thing ;) (No I din't copy it from any dictionary, but, I think, the meaning of the word "donation" is somewhat close to what I've said).

If you want a picture of the future,
imagine a boot stamping on a human face
— forever.

#55154

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 1:42 PM

IJoe wrote:
Truly so. I mean, donation should be an act of free will, done without any profit acquired.

Yeah but their "profit" was to keep the forum alive. Best to do that is to dangle news of the progress. So it worked, forum is saved. Why complaining?

#55156

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 1:47 PM

I'm not complaining. I just don't like people getting upset 'bout being cut off from some info simply 'cause they don't have money to spend, or some trouble with internet payments.
Anyway, it's not my decision, and it shouldn't be mine in any case. I, personally, am happy either way, as long, as the mod is alive. :)

If you want a picture of the future,
imagine a boot stamping on a human face
— forever.

#55157

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 1:52 PM

IJoe wrote:
I'm not complaining. I just don't like people getting upset 'bout being cut off from some info simply 'cause they don't have money to spend, or some trouble with internet payments.

yeah thats their problems. The news are getting official anyways

IJoe wrote:
Anyway, it's not my decision, and it shouldn't be mine in any case. I, personally, am happy either way, as long, as the mod is alive. :)

As i said this comes up because the forum is saved for a time

#55188

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 4:57 PM

I think Cephalos's heavy cover is sick! that would be awesome to see

#55189

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 5:10 PM

SK8ERatWAR wrote:
I think Cephalos's heavy cover is sick! that would be awesome to see

Fully agree with that! Make it happen, you sexy modders, you!

#55190

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 5:19 PM

cephalos wrote:
BurroDiablo wrote:
pariah wrote:
Yeah, maybe have something like the single-sided heavy cover of the map trenches? I'm not sure how you could make that buildable, though...

It's entirely possible, it would require a model but it also would require somebody with a lot of knowledge of Object Editor... these are people we lack at the moment.

Personally, I've never been a fan of trenches... but it's up to our faction designers and balancers to decide.

I have an idea:
Heavy Cover ( really stupid name, I know) - cost some manpower, but has two tasks - to grant somr cover to infantry and block light vehicles. Buildble same as old-style PE Roadbloks ( I mean those big ones, not those small builded in line)
And this took me about 1 minute ( plus 1 to load World builder)\

How do you like it?

EDIT: I forgot to write that it's ungarnisonable. Works like sandbags.

Nice :).

Mors Indecepta

Might controls everything, and without strength you cannot protect anything. Let alone yourself...

#55191

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 5:34 PM

haha thanks for support folks ;)

Lord wrote:
OSTHEER IS DONE WHEN IT'S DONE!

#55192

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 5:44 PM

Sorry. I dont like it ::)

For me it had to watch more like "trenches".
Kilometers of kilometers of the eastern front were a trench war.
Static front lines and complex trench systems.
Just watch the battle of Kursk! Red army had build up 3!! defending lines with trenches, tank traps and duged in anti tank guns.
Watch the siege of Leningrad; Heeresgruppe Nord had build a complex trench line with underground bunkers and positions.

Most parts of the eastern front were a "static trench" war - a bit like ww1.
So a trench system is a must have for red army and Ostheer - out of my view.

May the force be with you.

#55193

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 5:52 PM

Right, I agree, but what happens when let's say 75% ( just theory) won't like trenches for Ostheer? Will you still insist that trenches are a must?

Lord wrote:
OSTHEER IS DONE WHEN IT'S DONE!

#55194

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 5:53 PM

Well, i don't know how you would implement underground bunkers... Something like that would require a whole new system (something like that of Metal Fatigue).

#55195

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 5:57 PM

This bunkers were hjust an example for the "static war" at the eastern front ;)

My point is:
On most parts of the eastern front u had a war with parallels of ww1.
So u CANT fade out this fact and that is the reason why we shouldnt fade out this asprect for red army and Ostheer!

May the force be with you.

#55196

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 6:02 PM

What about these?

If you want a picture of the future,
imagine a boot stamping on a human face
— forever.

#55197

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 6:03 PM

Even if this won't replace an old trench, i still like it :D! Perhaps something like this could be added, not to replace the trench but as complement of some doctrine.

pariah wrote:
Well, i don't know how you would implement underground bunkers... Something like that would require a whole new system (something like that of Metal Fatigue).

Well, we need to try something new at least :D! If it won't work will widely known :-X.

Mors Indecepta

Might controls everything, and without strength you cannot protect anything. Let alone yourself...

Last edited January 18, 2011 at 6:05 PM by blackbishop

#55198

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 6:06 PM

Well, why not to give trenches also to Wehrmacht and US? There were stalemates on the Western Front ( a lot of those), and trennch is the simples and most obvious type of cover that infantry can provide. Don't tell me that battle of Bocage, operation Luttich and other big battles didn't take place in trenches.
At the beginning trench was unique to Brits - because they were defensive faction it was obvious, same as not giving trenches to PE. Soviets made a bit difference, nevertheless trench was still allies stuff. Now I can't imagine when Ostheer will dig trenches for it's infantry and for PE Grens or Wehr Grens :o This will cause trench war.

Lord wrote:
OSTHEER IS DONE WHEN IT'S DONE!

#55199

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 6:09 PM

IJoe wrote:
What about these?

Yeah, that's just what i was thinking of!

#55200

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 6:11 PM

I mean, these really aren't that tough,- you can't sit there with enemy running in circles and hopelessly trying to smoke you out - they'll simly run into your trench! Realistic? You bet!
It's also VERY eastern front style - "Comrades! Let's cut them out in their trenches!" ;D

If you want a picture of the future,
imagine a boot stamping on a human face
— forever.

Last edited January 18, 2011 at 6:16 PM by IJoe

#55201

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 6:17 PM

cephalos wrote:
Well, why not to give trenches also to Wehrmacht and US? There were stalemates on the Western Front ( a lot of those), and trennch is the simples and most obvious type of cover that infantry can provide. Don't tell me that battle of Bocage, operation Luttich and other big battles didn't take place in trenches.
At the beginning trench was unique to Brits - because they were defensive faction it was obvious, same as not giving trenches to PE. Soviets made a bit difference, nevertheless trench was still allies stuff. Now I can't imagine when Ostheer will dig trenches for it's infantry and for PE Grens or Wehr Grens :o This will cause trench war.

Afaik Ostheer trenches won't be the same that the soviets and brits have.

Mors Indecepta

Might controls everything, and without strength you cannot protect anything. Let alone yourself...

#55203

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 6:18 PM

Lord wrote:
My point is:
On most parts of the eastern front u had a war with parallels of ww1.
So u CANT fade out this fact and that is the reason why we shouldnt fade out this asprect for red army and Ostheer!

Historical accuracy and Realism ruins gameplay. Trenches are just a too big balance headache, especially with an axis faction. Imgine a ostheer - Brit game lol.
I belive that Historical Accuracy should NOT have top priority when designing a faction, the way Relic did it was the right way imo.

#55207

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 6:48 PM

Well. Out of my view the historical aspect is one of the most important point for a game which had decided to chose an real historical setting.

And out of my view trenches dont destroy the gameplay.
When a brit dig in he loses a big offensive capacity and when
german faction had their big tanks brits will regret their dug in xD

May the force be with you.

#55208

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 7:00 PM

Grrr...
I must be talking to a wall here :-\

If you want a picture of the future,
imagine a boot stamping on a human face
— forever.

#55209

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 7:04 PM

Lord wrote:
Well. Out of my view the historical aspect is one of the most important point for a game which had decided to chose an real historical setting.

And out of my view trenches dont destroy the gameplay.
When a brit dig in he loses a big offensive capacity and when
german faction had their big tanks brits will regret their dug in xD

Historical aspekts should not be a slave book to be followed, but an powerfull inspiration source, espeacially when dealing with a hardcore RTS as Company of Heroes.

The British faction has really no reliable counters against trenches, they can't do anything allmost. Imagine a squard of stormpios with 2x flamethrowes and mp40's inside a trench cookin them poor tommies up, dooms day i say.

#55210

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 7:08 PM

Yeah, sucks how Tommies can't clear rats out their own trenches. Best thing to do is delete them when you exit...

#55218

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 8:04 PM

Snug knows what he's talking about. The trench idea has been used way too much already. Brit trenches already ruin gameplay. Now Russians...now Ostheer? The cow has been milked too much, leave it alone. Static defenses is not how a fun game is meant to be played.

#55220

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 8:23 PM

Chancellor wrote:
[...]The trench idea has been used way too much already. Brit trenches already ruin gameplay. Now Russians...now Ostheer? The cow has been milked too much, leave it alone. Static defenses is not how a fun game is meant to be played.

that's like saying "ostheer shouldn't have sandbags because the other faction have them".
(about soviets&trenches: only one doctrine can use them)
if the EF faction designers think it's a good idea to include trenches then i'm sure it's gonna be ok.
and ostheer would be the first axis faction to have them.

BurroDiablo wrote:
Jagd[tiger] is a buildable replacement for the Kettenkrad... It can cloak and cap points. :P

#55221

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 8:45 PM

Sandbags don't protect units from everything save flames and grenades and don't promote static gameplay.

#55223

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 8:51 PM

Just make Ostheer trenches unoccupiable: troops would go in there like into an area of heavy cover, but not into a building-like structure - historically accurate, and doesn't encourage static gameplay.
Am I missing on something here?

If you want a picture of the future,
imagine a boot stamping on a human face
— forever.

#55225

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 9:08 PM

Ghost wrote:
Chancellor wrote:
[...]The trench idea has been used way too much already. Brit trenches already ruin gameplay. Now Russians...now Ostheer? The cow has been milked too much, leave it alone. Static defenses is not how a fun game is meant to be played.

that's like saying "ostheer shouldn't have sandbags because the other faction have them".
(about soviets&trenches: only one doctrine can use them)
if the EF faction designers think it's a good idea to include trenches then i'm sure it's gonna be ok.
and ostheer would be the first axis faction to have them.

I'd argue that trenches aren't like sandbags in that they were originally a faction specific thing, and they are far more powerful than sandbags in terms of defensive benefits. But I think the more important thing is that Axis trenches have the potential to unbalance the game (what do Brits do about them?) and they just don't promote interesting gameplay much (I personally think it's lame to have units insta-blow trenches to avoid leaving them for the enemy, but they'd be useless to Brits otherwise and people probably wouldn't bother if you couldn't). A large solid piece of green cover however, would be interesting, new and not so dodgy in terms of mechanics.

I do like the idea of trenches and I think units digging trenches could be very cool, but in the current implementation I don't like them. And since that won't change, they should be limited.

#55226

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 9:15 PM

"A large solid piece of green cover" isn't new; The Panzer Elite have Roadblocks.

What i suggest is the aforementioned heavy cover trenches. So the units can walk in them, and get cover on both sides; Essentially being reverse Sand Bags.

#55227

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 9:38 PM

Do the PE Roadblocks provide green cover? For some reason I assumed they didn't. Well, it wouldn't be that new then. But if it was about the length in cephalos' image, it would be a bit different from the PE one. I preferred the old PE roadblocks.

Heavy cover trenches would be pretty neat actually. You get the coolness of trenches without the dodginess of CoH's current trench cover.

#55228

Re: Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

January 18, 2011 at 9:52 PM

I saw a broadcast yesterday when a brit player spammed half made trenches on wolfheze. Axis could´nt micro his vehicles and lost.

What about the idea to build a bigger longer trench with a heavy weapon? costs mp to build and mun to upgrade to:

-> HWG

or

-> AT

trench is walkable by enemy troops