Ostheer Update 4: Schutzen War Camp

The Schutzen War Camp

Remember that all the pictures on this post are WIP.

Your first step into modern, mechanised warfare. The Schutzen War Camp have a wide list of specialised support and assault units. One of the units in this building that you can recruit is the Panzer II Ausf. L "Luchs".

As stated in the previous article, this building has two pools of units too:

Heavy Assault(HA): The units that belong to this pool are the Stormpioniers and the Sdkfz. 251 (aka Troop Halftrack).

Heavy Support(HS): The units that belong to this pool are the PaK 40 and the 75mm Infantry Support Gun.

Neutral units: Panzer II Ausf. L (aka Luchs), Panzerfusiliers and the Panzerwerfer.

Units Deployable:

Panzer II Luchs
Role: Heavy Recon
Weapons: 20 mm KwK 38 L/55 + MG34
Abilities: Speed!, can capture points.
Summary: The reconnaissance unit of the ostheer, capable of capturing points and having the ability to increase it's speed temporary makes it a valuable target... if not a must die one. With it's 20 mm cannon can do short work of enemy infantry; however remember that those units aren't meant to fight by themselves because aren't so tough.



Panzerfusiliers
Role: Infantry
Weapons: 4xMP40
Upgrades: Extended magazines
Abilities: Grenade Shower
Summary: A squad of four soldiers wielding MP40 submachine guns. They are tougher than the Landser and excels in close combat. Their time based ability called "Grenade Shower", as the name suggest, unleash a vicious rain of stielhandgranates to the target until the effect worns off. Extended magazines upgrade grants them a better rate of fire.


Panzerwerfer
Role: Anit-Infantry/Spam
Weapons: 15 cm Panzerwerfer 42
Abilities: Salvo - Explosive Rounds
Upgrades: Incendiary Rounds (Replaces Explosive, requires research)
Summary: Armed with 15 cm tubes and capable of firing 10 projectiles, the Panzerwerfer 42 is strong enough to fight against infantry, specially high concentration of them. It's normal barrage can be improved to incendiary after that upgrade is researched. It has halftrack armor, so it's quite resilant to small weapons fire; also remember to change it's location once you fired to avoid being hunted down by a quick enemy raid.


Sturmpioneers
Role: Assault Engineers
Weapons: 2xFlammenwerfer + 2xMP40
Abilities: Detect Mines(passive), Barbed Wire, Sandbags, Czech Hedgehogs, Run(requires Blitz Pioneers), Goliath(requires Blitz Pioneers), Trench(requires Fortress Pioneers), S-Mines(requires Fortress Pioneers).
Upgrade: Blitz Pioneers OR Fortress Pioneers.
Summary: The Ostheer Stormpioniers are ready to combat on the eastern front! Let them construct trenches or planting S-Mines by upgrading them as Fortress Pioneers or to assault a position with Run ability and  be able to construct Goliaths as Blitz Pioneers. Be wise about your choice because you can only perform one upgrade for each squad. Use them to flank enemy forces and ignite them to ashes. They can build defensive emplacements such as sandbags, barbed wire and Czech Hedgehogs besides being able to detect mines while running.



Troop Halftrack
Role: Transport + Anti-Infantry
Weapons: MG34 (MG comes manned)
Abilities: Hold 10 troops (2 squads), First Aid, Reinforce.
Summary: Armed with an MG34, is strong enough to combat infantry, offering more protection than almost all objects around the map(excluding buildings), let alone that is mobile. Capable of reinforce nearby squads makes it useful for supporting assaults. It has a time based ability called First Aid, that like the Sdkfz. 9, can be used after Mobile Heal Station upgrade from the HQ is purchased.



PaK 40
Role: Heavy Anti-Tank
Weapons: PAK 40 7.5cm + 2x Luger Pistole 08 (4 men in total)
Abilities: Camouflage
Summary: The heavy PaK 40 is one of the best anti tank weapons the Ostheer can give you. With it's 75 mm cannon can decimate almost all the tanks that dare to get on their sight. It can camouflage to ambush the opponent, while using their first shot bonus before their camo fades off.


75mm Infantry Support Gun
Role: Heavy Infantry Support
Weapons: 7.5cm Infantriegeschütz 18 + 2x Luger Pistole 08 (4 men in total)
Abilities: Indirect fire, Direct fire
Summary: The 75 mm ISG is a versatile weapon of the Ostheer: works as an anti-infantry gun and as a light anti-tank gun. With it's Indirect fire ability will barrage the desired location as a mortar; while Direct fire will shot a projectile on a straight line, like an anti-tank gun. Be sure to try one of these!


Upgrades available:

Nebelwerfer
Summary: Allows to produce the Panzerwerfer.

Heavy Assault
Summary: Allows to enable the production of Stormpioniers and Troop Halftracks. When you active HA, PaKs 40 and 75mm ISG teams are disabled.

Heavy Support
Summary: Allows to enable the production of PaKs 40 and 75mm ISG teams. When you active HS, Stormpioniers and Troop Halftracks are disabled.

You can purchase those upgrades whenever you want(as long as you have resources of course).

Last edited January 17, 2011 at 6:20 AM by blackbishop

This sounds... OP  :o
I'm sure though, you won't let such a thing to happen.
I just wonder, how some poor G.I. Joes are even capable of fighting such force? This stuff must really be wa-a-ay expensive, cause otherwize, it's the hell on earth for any opponent.
Looking forward to try 'em in the field though.  :)

IJoe wrote:
This sounds... OP  :o

A gun that can fire stubby PzIV shells and counter mortars seems OP too me too.

Hope that StoormPioneres wont be spamable. It would be great if some army had engiees more expensive than basic rifles.

PAK40? Will it be a copy of a Soviet upgraded gun (ZiS-3)? It shouldnt have a camo ability then.
Pak 36 -> 2 camo shots
Pak 38 -> 1 camo shot
Pak 40 -> no camo shots. :D

Another update! Updates make me happy. :D

Excellent choices for the Schutzen War Camp! It makes me brainstorm strategies. ;D

Paciat wrote:
A gun that can fire stubby PzIV shells and counter mortars seems OP too me too.

Hope that StoormPioneres wont be spamable. It would be great if some army had engiees more expensive than basic rifles.

PAK40? Will it be a copy of a Soviet upgraded gun (ZiS-3)? It shouldnt have a camo ability then.
Pak 36 -> 2 camo shots
Pak 38 -> 1 camo shot
Pak 40 -> no camo shots. :D

ISG's cone of fire isn't so big.

Besides being in a too early stage, by now they cost more than grenadiers but less than a sniper.

ISG sounds interesting. Sturmpios do sound extremely OP atm. Also, they shouldn't be able to build trenches ever. I really dislike that idea. Pak 40 sounds just like the wehr Pak, a bit boring if you ask me. The other units sound interesting. I like the idea of the fusiliers.

NO trechces. That defeats the whole part of being highly mobile. I don't want to see another brit-stlye faction.

Great news, but right now Ostheer looks to OP like Soviets in Patch 1.0. I hope that units of Ostheer will be more expensive than other german factions.

BTW: Do you have any animators?

I'm also a bit sceptical of the trench idea. They can also build sandbags, so is there really a need for trenches(which also were a british only ability, but now the soviets can build doctrinal trenches an Osterheer can build nondoctrinal trenches)? Maybe they could build a bunker that can't be upgraded? What I'm also worried about is the 2 Flamethrowers + all the explosives stuff. I mean they can both build the trenches and clear them out in a second.

Perhaps you could consider making them reliant on explosives and taking their flamethrowers away? They could be able to throw incindiary grenades and Geballte Ladungen, that'd also work to clear out buildings. And for Fortress ops you could give them something like the commando charges and the Panzermines and for Blitz ops they could...uhm, throw smoke and a hail of flamegrenades? Or a stachel charge?

But still, Great update ;)

Awesome work guys!! Epic update. I just love the 'panzerfusilier' idea. I wanna get them. Any pics of them?  :D

Red_Stinger wrote:
Awesome work guys!! Epic update. I just love the 'panzerfusilier' idea. I wanna get them. Any pics of them?  :D

Look at my avatar :)

Thx for the update you guys are doing really well  ;D

Hell yeah! Stormpioneers with Goliath ablity sounds really similiar to mine idea  :D
I love idea of Panzerfusiliers, but I guess Panzerwerfer is too OP if made buildable and non-doctrinal.

And why didn't we get this first on Donor Boards??  >:(

Panzerwerfer 42 = bye, bye soviet blob. :D Btw, I wouldn't say what's OP or UP until I see it ingame. And blackbishop: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projectile !!! Sorry, but that annoyed me, beasides its a neat update! :D

About the price;
Please have in mind that u need the pool upgrade! They will cost resources.
When u want to build the Panzerwerfer u have to research it (that will cost resources).
When u want Blitz or Fortress pioneers u have to upgrade this unit (that will cost resources).
All in all u have to pay a lot of your resources for all this weapons!
So ingame it will be a good choice to focus one pool/unit group and research other stuff later or u wont have enough resources for unit production ;)

why do some people always have to start with "XY sounds totaly OP"?!
if ostheer is a "quality over quantaty" faction than the units should be quite good. and keep in mind what rommel said about the unit pools:
you can only have one pool at a time and switching to the other pool will need resources and time.

so let's take a look at the units:

QuoteNeutral units: Panzer II Ausf. L (aka Luchs), Panzerfusiliers and the Panzerwerfer.

-Panzer II: i guess it will be a light tank, maybe like tetrach, simply use another tank or an AT gun against it and it will be useless
-Panzerfusiliers: anti-infantry only, so use snipers, hmg or any vehicle
-Panzerwerfer: arty unit, must be researched!

QuoteHeavy Assault(HA):

-Stormpioniers: only effective at close range, use an hmg, snipers or vehicle and they are useless, goliath will surely cost a lot of ammo
-Sdkfz. 251 (like WM)

QuoteHeavy Support(HS):

-PaK 40: stronger but also bigger and heavier than pak 38, which means slower ;) simply rush it with infantry or use snipers, mortars
-75mm Infantry Support Gun: somehow like a mortar with limited anti-tank capabilities, it's a stubby 75mm gun that will surely not make a lot of damage (and like mentioned in blackbishop's post: use it vs. LIGHT vehicles ;)), like any heavy weapon, counter it with snipers, arty or heavy tanks

and keep in mind that we still don't know what the rest of ostheer will look like: the last building and the doctrines. as mentioned before the panzer III (weaker than panzer 4) will be their main battle tank and will lose in a 1on1 vs. t34/sherman/cromwell so they need something to compensate for that ;).

Last edited January 15, 2011 at 12:26 PM by Ghost

"Remember that all the pictures on this post are WIP."

What exactly is "WIP" supposed to mean? ???

WIP mean Work in progress.

Jupp. Work in progress. So this pictures arent final. Skins, models could change before release.

Cool, thanks. It looks great so far, anyway! I can't wait 'til i get to play your expansion!

UUUUUUUUH!!!!!!

Panzerwerfer...I love that weapon  :D :D :D

And Panzer II rocks!  ;)

Great Update!! :D

Hello from France
You make a very great great job !!
I play with my friends EF since one year already and we are really fans.
Is the Ostheer faction now playable?

furby wrote:
Is the Ostheer faction now playable?

No...

It's a "WIP", in case you didn't know... Besides, would you really want to use a tank with textures like that?!

Don't know why people call the update OP, its not like you can build loads of units because it should be expensive.

Lovin the mod and hope for more :)

I think "OP" is supposed to mean 'Observation Post'...

OP = Over Power  ;)

Hi, i'm new here so excuse me if my question is dumb.Anyone knows when we will be able to play with Ostheer?


OSTHEER will be done when it sidone! NO Releasedate.  ;)
Lord Rommel

Last edited January 15, 2011 at 3:26 PM by Lord Rommel

I really like some points of the update, but a few i actually dislike.

One of the greatest unit will fore sure be the infrantry support gun. I always loved lord rommels idea of that gun. The luchs, gut damn i love that vehicle :D. finally a axis faction with a early game tank.

But in general, teching works really slowly with the ostheer, is that correct? Otherwise the luchs would role in way to early ;)


Hmhm.. with the panzerwerfer being a non-doctrinal art unit.. i really dont know what i should think about that atm. Either it will be rediculous weak to keep the balance, or it will be hardcapped. Or nebelwerfer like?
Sturmpios.. great model and lovely skin. But their ablilites seem to much brit-like for me and still way to similiar to the panzerfusiliers (4man sqaurd, mp40).
these guys should for example have a few things they can always build, like sandbag (and for gods sake no trenches!) and after selecting a doctrine things which fit in the doctrines playstyle.

the halftrack is alright.

pak 40 does need a difference to the pak of the wehrmacht. Thinking about a ability or obtainable ability via vet which makes a feelable difference. The camo ability is not a must have.



Sorry for the always hard criticism, nevertheless a good update. But this buildings concept is expandable.

In general: Be mindful that the ostheers concept isnt too similiar to the soviets.
What we got so far in both: 3 tech buildings, which got 2 ways of updates inside (sure ostheer 's got always a neutral unit and can always choose only one way). There should be some more difference. Im looking foward to the next building now, and the way they obtain vet. I hope we get less similarities than.

God damn im a hard slasher.



Regards

Venoxxis wrote:
[...]
Hmhm.. with the panzerwerfer being a non-doctrinal art unit.. i really dont know what i should think about that atm. Either it will be rediculous weak to keep the balance, or it will be hardcapped. Or nebelwerfer like?
Sturmpios.. great model and lovely skin. But their ablilites seem to much brit-like for me and still way to similiar to the panzerfusiliers (4man sqaurd, mp40).
these guys should for example have a few things they can always build, like sandbag (and for gods sake no trenches!) and after selecting a doctrine things which fit in the doctrines playstyle.
[...]
Sorry for the always hard criticism, nevertheless a good update. But this buildings concept is expandable.

In general: Be mindful that the ostheers concept isnt too similiar to the soviets.
What we got so far in both: 3 tech buildings, which got 2 ways of updates inside (sure ostheer 's got always a neutral unit and can always choose only one way). There should be some more difference. Im looking foward to the next building now, and the way they obtain vet. I hope we get less similarities than.

Panzerwerfer; Out of my view it is a motorised Nebelwerfer - or better - a motorised rocket thrower. Cant see a reason why such a weapon had to be e.g. only a doctrine unit...

The trenchs; Well. Trenchs are an historical tribute for the eastern front. Most people had just this german tank attacks in mind when they are thinking of eastern front. But it is fact that this "panzer fronts" were just a small part of the hole front line. Heeresgruppe Nord thought a "trench war" from 1941 till 1944. Heeresgruppe Mitte had dug in from 1942 till 1944...So why NOT trenches?
Cant see any problem (and with flame-thrower and molotov cockail they should be easy to clean).

One point i dont understand is your comparison of Ostheer and red army.
Out of my view red army had this "upgrades" for game balance. Ostheer use its unit pool for gameplay, game tactics and game stil. On the paper they look equal but in function and mechanic they are so diffrent.

Last edited January 15, 2011 at 3:51 PM by Lord Rommel

Lord wrote:

Panzerwerfer; Out of my view it is a motorised Nebelwerfer - or better - a motorised rocket thrower. Cant see a reason why such a weapon had to be e.g. only a doctrine unit...

The trenchs; Well. Trenchs are an historical tribute for the eastern front. Most people had just this german tank attacks in mind when they are thinking of eastern front. But it is fact that this "panzer fronts" were just a small part of the hole front line. Heeresgruppe Nord thought a "trench war" from 1941 till 1944. Heeresgruppe Mitte had dug in from 1942 till 1944...So why NOT trenches?
Cant see any problem (and with flame-thrower and molotov cockail they should be easy to clean).

One point i dont understand is your comparison of Ostheer and red army.
Out of my view red army had this "upgrades" for game balance. Ostheer use its unit pool for gameplay, game tactics and game stil. On the paper they look equal but in function and mechanic they are so diffrent.

Alright, if it works like a nebelwerfer, its a great idea. I remembered it from other mods, which made it katyusha like. That wouldnt fit after all.

Treches are historically correct. But for gamplays&feeling, it is the best way to keep the trenches british.

Surely the reason why the 2 concepts became similiar are not your fault Lord Rommel. Your concept was a solid stand alone. And at that time the soviets concept was a completely different one. But the soviet update made their concept at leat a bit similiar to yours ;)


Anyways, nice to see you!

Great update guys, I hope to see Ostheer soon:)

Great update guys!

Wonder how tough will the luchs be? armor type like t90?

nice update.

Brazilian Greetings!

ABOUT Trench

Eastern Army is strong early game, fast and skilled
late game is more defensive and "weak. " ex  Trenches, Turrent Panter and lots mines....half price mines? :)

AND

Without price of units, without criticism .. PLEASE!
Let's hope the entire package to review!
PS: Sexy Panzer II:)  - Hans los los! Tank hunters in my Neck!
ps2: Philosophy East Army  is GIMME THE PRICE

ps3: sorry my bad bad english

TheReaper wrote:
Panzerwerfer 42 = bye, bye soviet blob. :D Btw, I wouldn't say what's OP or UP until I see it ingame. And blackbishop: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projectile !!! Sorry, but that annoyed me, beasides its a neat update! :D

lol... sorry about it, i know was projectile, but in spanish is proyectil(like project -> proyecto) xD. Fixed.

Last edited January 15, 2011 at 6:31 PM by blackbishop

Lord wrote:
The trenchs; Well. Trenchs are an historical tribute for the eastern front. Most people had just this german tank attacks in mind when they are thinking of eastern front. But it is fact that this "panzer fronts" were just a small part of the hole front line. Heeresgruppe Nord thought a "trench war" from 1941 till 1944. Heeresgruppe Mitte had dug in from 1942 till 1944...So why NOT trenches?
Cant see any problem (and with flame-thrower and molotov cockail they should be easy to clean).

First of all it'd be helpful to establish what trenches we're talking about. Are we talking the plain british trenches the soviets also use?

Because that would be -in my opinion- not very original. My problem with the British trenches is how they work: They are a free building with 360 degree field of fire and providing better boni than building-type cover. While I feel that they are somewhat necessary for the current British faction, I feel that in general they're somewhat lame because they don't really have a downside as they can be easily deleted.

Also, it just looks a bit copy&paste-ish if EF uses the British trench for both the factions it has added.

If, on the other hand, you would make the trenches similar to what you can find in some of the beach maps like pointe du hoc for example, I think it would be far more original and also less problematic balance wise.

Last edited January 15, 2011 at 7:33 PM by blackbishop

Yeah, maybe have something like the single-sided heavy cover of the map trenches? I'm not sure how you could make that buildable, though...

I like most of the ideas, but lets think about this people. Since you can only choose between the Strum pioneers/inf halftrack and the 75mm AT/ support gun, you must choose what you want based on what you need. So this isn't OP. Plus when you upgrade the Strum pioneers to fortress pioneers, they can't sprint, and they only gain the ability to build trenches and Goliath bombs, which many people don't like.
  So, let the developers do as they please, that is why there will be beta testers, to test out the kinks. Also, if you donate $15.00 or more, you can become a beta tester, just a reminder.

pariah wrote:
Yeah, maybe have something like the single-sided heavy cover of the map trenches? I'm not sure how you could make that buildable, though...

It's entirely possible, it would require a model but it also would require somebody with a lot of knowledge of Object Editor... these are people we lack at the moment.

Personally, I've never been a fan of trenches... but it's up to our faction designers and balancers to decide.

It's not like is too late to change it ::).

Just a question, can you make the skins a little bit "dirty" because I hate US; CW; PE; Wehr; skins which are, I think, way too clean ...
Nice job for the Panzer II, I love it !

Just because it hasn't been played yet doesn't mean it can't be seen as OP yet. As described currently, OH gets one non-doctrinal unit with dual flamers and the ability to construct trenches. In the SU, this requires command point powers from two separate doctrines. Brits can't get flamers at all. In fact, Brits cannot reliably counter their own trenches so spamming them all over the map is a bad idea. OH will be able to spam them everywhere and just clear them out with mega flamers. Against the Brits, there will be no reason to build other units because Brits are weak to flames and cannot counter trenches outside of commando doctrine (riflenades are too inaccurate).

Historically correct or not, OH should never be allowed to build trenches. They destroy gameplay. The other units sound fine so far but Sturmpios have far too many positives, it doesn't even matter how much they cost.

BurroDiablo wrote:

pariah wrote:
Yeah, maybe have something like the single-sided heavy cover of the map trenches? I'm not sure how you could make that buildable, though...

It's entirely possible, it would require a model but it also would require somebody with a lot of knowledge of Object Editor... these are people we lack at the moment.

Personally, I've never been a fan of trenches... but it's up to our faction designers and balancers to decide.

I have an idea:
Heavy Cover ( really stupid name, I know) - cost some manpower, but has two tasks - to grant somr cover to infantry and block light vehicles. Buildble same as old-style PE Roadbloks ( I mean those big ones, not those small builded in line)
And this took me about 1 minute ( plus 1 to load World builder)\


How do you like it?

EDIT: I forgot to write that it's ungarnisonable. Works like sandbags.

Last edited January 16, 2011 at 1:32 AM by cephalos

Looks amazing so far, and I'm really liking the different unit pools. Personally I have no problem with the ability to build trenches as digging a hole in the earth for cover doesn't seem like such a peculiar thing as to only be used by the British or Russians. As far as modeling one goes, it seems unnecessary to make a completely different one for it being a simple thing and besides, I think we'll be preoccupied using the new units to not care too much how our trenches look.

Wow cephalos, that looks pretty good. I wonder if it could be made to be built as a click and drag wall somehow. Overall, the concrete wall with sandbags and wire appearance looks really good and is kind of unique to the OH.

i like but the only thing that does bother me is the sturmpios shouldnt have the flamethrowers right off the bat they should have to upgrade for em

PanzerHeer wrote:
i like but the only thing that does bother me is the sturmpios shouldnt have the flamethrowers right off the bat they should have to upgrade for em

Alternatively they could be given the Eintossflammenwerfer ability instead of a straight flamethrower (munit per use), which alot of you would already know about.

I think trenchs would be a good thing for the ostheer becouse they need something to stop them from getting shreded from the supurer allied arty that dominates the existing axis arty but maybe if they had like an earth bunker (like a trench but more vunrable to direct fire but could hold mgs although only letting them fire in one direction

@cephalos - Yeah, that looks really cool. Something like that could be a nice unique feature for a different kind of entrenchment. Better than trenches for sure, GodlikeDennis has made good points about why it probably wouldn't be great for an Axis faction to have trenches.