Italians

This is hilarious!

Venoxxis wrote:

BATTERIES wrote:


Then for a further 2 cp the powerful italian armour can be called to the field. Costing 350 mp and 40 fuel this beast will strike fear into its russian adversaries,

What the hell is that?
a soviet stell monster would just roll over it.

-> for all and the same reason the italians dont really seem
to have something special which could fit it. expect the papa, this beast will strike fear in the hearts of the russians.



nah man, other countrys are a good idea, but they simply dont fit, because they have nothing to counter a soviet attack.

what the hell is that you ask? That my friend is the Ostheer's response to the T-90 and the T-70! Its perfect!

i think if the italians were on the axis side it would be great because it would give me XP quicker....JK :) ;) :P no seriously they would be cool you could give them some cool stuff..!

Italians were a joke, all their stuff was outdated as of 1930. The only thing the MIGHT scare me would be the Semovente tank hunters. They were built on the same chassis as that monstrosity above and some mounted guns larger than a FlaK 36 88mm so they actually had to load the thing outside on the back of the damn tank as well as it could hold almost no ammo of its own and needed a ammo carrier. This thread makes me lol...

when i red - italians, i thought u are about to suggest italians as a new faction. tbh, i thought of that too because all axis ones are all germans in their way. but let's be serious and go with the facts.
as many said, italians were poor soldiers or poorly led by leaders. another fact is that their equipment and vehicles were soo out of date.

if theres a new faction to suggest. i'd go with japan or at least some german branch of army that was much more different in their structure, meaning not to get many same models with diferent textures. and different building are a must :).

"Italians were a joke"
no they are not they are good soldiers.
"This thread makes me lol..."
you being a jack ass and a prick does not help.

Instead italians,much better will be romanian faction.

Romania has been neutral at the start of WW2,then join and fought on the german side when in the offensive campaign against Russia...and switch the side after the red army counter offensive...
Romanian army was far superior in moral,combat skill and equipment than italians,and played one of the most important role in the initial success of germans against Russia..

Search and find if don't believe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania_during_World_War_II

http://www.worldwar2.ro/

From Wikipedia

The war on the Eastern Front

Operation Barbarossa, attacking the Soviet Union on a wide front. Romania joined in the offensive, with Romanian troops crossing the River Prut. After recovering Bessarabia and Bukovina (Operation München), Romanian units fought side by side with the Germans onward to Odessa, Sevastopol, and Stalingrad. The Romanian contribution of troops was enormous. The total number of troops involved in the Romanian Third Army and the Romanian Fourth Army was second only to Nazi Germany itself. The Romanian Army had a total of 686,258 men under arms in the summer of 1941 and a total of 1,224,691 men in arms in the summer of 1944.[3] The number of Romanian troops sent to fight in Russia exceeded that of all of Germany's other allies combined. A Country Study by the U.S. Federal Research Division of the Library of Congress attributes this to "morbid competition with Hungary to curry Hitler's favor... [in hope of]... regaining northern Transylvania."[1]

Romania instituted a civil government in occupied Soviet lands immediately east of the Dniester. After the Battle of Odessa, this included the city of Odessa. The Romanian armies advanced far into the Soviet Union during 1941 and 1942 before being involved in the disaster at the Battle of Stalingrad in the winter of 1942-1943.

Romania's most important general, Petre Dumitrescu, was commander of the Romanian Third Army at Stalingrad. In November 1942, the German Sixth Army was briefly put at Dumitrescu's disposal during a German attempt to relieve the Romanian Third Army following a devastating Soviet offensive.

Prior to the Soviet counteroffensive at Stalingrad, the Antonescu government considered a war with Hungary over Transylvania as an inevitability after the expected victory over the Soviet Union.[1] Although it was the most dedicated ally of Germany, Romania's turning to the Allied side in August 1944 was rewarded with Northern Transylvania, which had been granted to Hungary in 1940 after the Second Vienna Award.
_______________________________________________________________________

Italy were and IS a joke in warfare.
________________________________________________________________________
This Romanian tank look wonderful.
Also was so appreciated by germans,who took the project and make Hetzer.
http://www.worldwar2.ro/arme/?article=244
_________________________________________________________________________
Romanian AT gun,used in eastern front => better than german pak40
Is somewhere between zis-3 and pak-40 
http://www.worldwar2.ro/arme/?article=300

Last edited February 2, 2010 at 11:02 AM by PSIHOPAT

all german allies were poorly equipped and used as front line shield or for controlling their own countries. so no point thinking of others. unless we want horses in coh :)

sid wrote:
unless we want horses in coh :)

Hi,

There is a mule with a launcher and rider , Fully animated and working in COH ....So can have the finger's crossed for horses  ;)....

Regards
funnyme

sid wrote:
all german allies were poorly equipped and used as front line shield or for controlling their own countries. so no point thinking of others. unless we want horses in coh :)

You joke right ?
Romania was not so inferior compared with other countries.
Without help from romania,germany was not get so far in russian territories and achieved such victories...

Look again at my previous post.

This is a prove:
http://www.worldwar2.ro/arme/?article=244
This new vehicle immediately attracted the German attention and in December 1943 Antonescu presented to Hitler the project and the blueprints of M-04 prototype. Those inspired the German development of the Hetzer tank-destroyer

Why germans has been so interested by this model if was superior in all ?
Hetzer tank destroyer had "romanian heart".Without romanian plans,nothing like hetzer and other similar tank destroyers has existed.Also all his plans and prototipe was captured later by russians...like many others.Why?

Maresal tank made by one "inferior" person...romanian...
And this is just one situation/example...

Last edited February 2, 2010 at 1:17 PM by PSIHOPAT

i wont argue with u. i checked myself couple of links. and im not saying u are not right. but i just dont feel it, like a faction.

thou ostheer is on its way so we should continue this if EF crew decides to add more factions :).

If not an entire faction,maybe some off map calling units from other countries,including Romania will be very nice.

PSIHOPAT wrote:
Instead italians,much better will be romanian faction.

Romania has been neutral at the start of WW2,then join and fought on the german side when in the offensive campaign against Russia...and switch the side after the red army counter offensive...
Romanian army was far superior in moral,combat skill and equipment than italians,and played one of the most important role in the initial success of germans against Russia..

Search and find if don't believe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania_during_World_War_II

http://www.worldwar2.ro/

From Wikipedia

The war on the Eastern Front

Operation Barbarossa, attacking the Soviet Union on a wide front. Romania joined in the offensive, with Romanian troops crossing the River Prut. After recovering Bessarabia and Bukovina (Operation München), Romanian units fought side by side with the Germans onward to Odessa, Sevastopol, and Stalingrad. The Romanian contribution of troops was enormous. The total number of troops involved in the Romanian Third Army and the Romanian Fourth Army was second only to Nazi Germany itself. The Romanian Army had a total of 686,258 men under arms in the summer of 1941 and a total of 1,224,691 men in arms in the summer of 1944.[3] The number of Romanian troops sent to fight in Russia exceeded that of all of Germany's other allies combined. A Country Study by the U.S. Federal Research Division of the Library of Congress attributes this to "morbid competition with Hungary to curry Hitler's favor... [in hope of]... regaining northern Transylvania."[1]

Romania instituted a civil government in occupied Soviet lands immediately east of the Dniester. After the Battle of Odessa, this included the city of Odessa. The Romanian armies advanced far into the Soviet Union during 1941 and 1942 before being involved in the disaster at the Battle of Stalingrad in the winter of 1942-1943.

Romania's most important general, Petre Dumitrescu, was commander of the Romanian Third Army at Stalingrad. In November 1942, the German Sixth Army was briefly put at Dumitrescu's disposal during a German attempt to relieve the Romanian Third Army following a devastating Soviet offensive.

Prior to the Soviet counteroffensive at Stalingrad, the Antonescu government considered a war with Hungary over Transylvania as an inevitability after the expected victory over the Soviet Union.[1] Although it was the most dedicated ally of Germany, Romania's turning to the Allied side in August 1944 was rewarded with Northern Transylvania, which had been granted to Hungary in 1940 after the Second Vienna Award.
_______________________________________________________________________

Italy were and IS a joke in warfare.
________________________________________________________________________
This Romanian tank look wonderful.
Also was so appreciated by germans,who took the project and make Hetzer.
http://www.worldwar2.ro/arme/?article=244
_________________________________________________________________________
Romanian AT gun,used in eastern front => better than german pak40
Is somewhere between zis-3 and pak-40 
http://www.worldwar2.ro/arme/?article=300

ok you have said this about 5 times!

PSIHOPAT wrote:
If not an entire faction,maybe some off map calling units from other countries,including Romania will be very nice.

thats more like it :). since ostheers were supported by their allies (romania, bulgaria..etc)

ford_prefect wrote:
ok you have said this about 5 times!

Enough...yea...

But i was little bit irritated by some subjects considered to be priorities by some people,who ignore history.

Last edited February 2, 2010 at 11:47 PM by PSIHOPAT

PSIHOPAT wrote:

ford_prefect wrote:
ok you have said this about 5 times!

Enough...yea...

But i was little bit irritated by some subjects considered to be priorities by some people,who ignore history.

yeah but you just sprayed it across about 5 diffrent threads

BATTERIES wrote:

totally agree with you! Italy must be present as axis allies in this game,it's historically correct!

Italy used also other veichles during WWII:

CV-33 Flamethrower


Fiat Ansaldo Semovente M34 120/25 : the best tank produced by italian "Regio Esercito"

http://www.modellismi.it/prodotti/big/1600.jpg



Fiat M 13/40
http://www.lasecondaguerramondiale.it/mezzi1.asp?tipo_carro=11

Fiat 75/18 M41

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/75/18_%28semovente%29

Fiat C.V.33 (L3)


here the link:  http://www.lasecondaguerramondiale.it/mezzicorazzati.html

Last edited February 3, 2010 at 2:18 PM by Mangusta85

How many things have done Italia in eastern front for germany ?

I tell you =>NOTHING.

Other countries yes.

Check germany allies in that period and zone of conflict,and you will find the answer=>who was the most powerful allied of germany against Russia.

PSIHOPAT wrote:
How many things have done Italia in eastern front for germany ?

I tell you =>NOTHING.

Other countries yes.

Check germany allies in that period and zone of conflict,and you will find the answer=>who was the most powerful allied of germany against Russia.

you're bad informed,i tell you that 90.000 italian soldiers died in russia! Mussolini sent them in russia through ice with bad equipments and weapons,but despite this they fought with strenght and honour.The Soviets said : "only Italian Alpini can be considered unbeaten on URSS's ground

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparti_italiani_al_fronte_orientale#Le_perdite

Italian 8° Army/ARMIR :

-3° Regiment Savoia Cavalry
-5° Regiment Lanceri di Novara
-Alpini battalion
-201° Motorized Cavalry
-Croatian Legion
-156°,277°,278° Infantry Regiments
-5°,6° Regiments Alpini with artillery
-Alpinian Division Julia : 8°-9° Regiments,3° artillery
-Alpinian Division Cuneo:1°,2° Inantry Regiments,4°,11° artillery
-Alpinian Division Vicenza:
-XXXV Corpo d'Armata (ex CSIR)
-Naval Unit X° Flottiglia MAS (they sinked incrociator Molotov,Kharkov and 3 Soviet's submarines)

and more others,for a total unit number of : 230.000 soldiers

Yea...

Check this this(from wikipedia).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania_during_World_War_II
Maybe you skip them from attention from the previous post.
_______________________________________________________________________
The war on the Eastern Front

Operation Barbarossa, attacking the Soviet Union on a wide front. Romania joined in the offensive, with Romanian troops crossing the River Prut. After recovering Bessarabia and Bukovina (Operation München), Romanian units fought side by side with the Germans onward to Odessa, Sevastopol, and Stalingrad. The Romanian contribution of troops was enormous. The total number of troops involved in the Romanian Third Army and the Romanian Fourth Army was second only to Nazi Germany itself. The Romanian Army had a total of 686,258 men under arms in the summer of 1941 and a total of 1,224,691 men in arms in the summer of 1944.[3] The number of Romanian troops sent to fight in Russia exceeded that of all of Germany's other allies combined.
________________________________________________________________________

http://www.worldwar2.ro/?language=en
_______________________________________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Odessa_(1941)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Sevastopol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Stalingrad
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_Armies_in_the_Battle_of_Stalingrad

You can compare them ?

Last edited February 3, 2010 at 6:35 PM by PSIHOPAT

ok guys u went off topic. arguing about unimportant stuff at least not along the topic. so i wont try to pull us back and post anymore in here. :(

History is VERY important for anyone.

Also is necessary for any game/mod who attempt to represent one part from the past.

PSIHOPAT wrote:
History is VERY important for anyone.

Also is necessary for any game/mod who attempt to represent one part from the past.

perfect! history games are also a way to remember...so every detail is important for a faithful reconstruction

Mangusta85 wrote:

PSIHOPAT wrote:
History is VERY important for anyone.

Also is necessary for any game/mod who attempt to represent one part from the past.

perfect! history games are also a way to remember...so every detail is important for a faithful reconstruction

I'm struggling to think of anything in Company of Heroes that is actually a faithful reconstruction of history. Why should Eastern Front be so realistic?

Because it has to be better than normal coh?

Because if not,all thousand or millions of deaths,from factions involved in war,will roll in the graves,if will be represented in "insulting ways".

This is a mod for WW2,and game balance is important,but also very important are real facts,recorded in history.

If is NO interest to represent factions in the best accurate way,and is made just in hurry,or without care/attention,some people with family members who has been involved in that events,will be insulted.

Funny movies or games are another thing than games with WW2 subject.This mod represent in limited ways,struggle for life between thousand of poor souls caught in the "nightmare" called World War.

Always this type of games send a message,and will be nice if is made with the best compromise between history/reality,and balance...with the care to not throw insult in anyone.

Last edited February 3, 2010 at 10:20 PM by PSIHOPAT

PSIHOPAT wrote:
Because if not,all thousand or millions of deaths,from factions involved in war,will roll in the graves,if will be represented in "insulting ways".

A very good reason

PSIHOPAT wrote:
Because if not,all thousand or millions of deaths,from factions involved in war,will roll in the graves,if will be represented in "insulting ways".

This is a mod for WW2,and game balance is important,but also very important are real facts,recorded in history.

If is NO interest to represent factions in the best accurate way,and is made just in hurry,or without care/attention,some people with family members who has been involved in that events,will be insulted.

Funny movies or games are another thing than games with WW2 subject.This mod represent in limited ways,struggle for life between thousand of poor souls caught in the "nightmare" called World War.

Always this type of games send a message,and will be nice if is made in with the best compromise between history/reality,and balance...with the care to not throw insult in anyone.

Two words, video game

I couldn't careless if the uniforms are somewhat miss or if they try to make this into a pro war mod they have every right to interpret it as they will as long as its within reason.

Even if they go so far as to make them an entire new faction as long as its balanced and the gameplay is smooth. Nothing else truly matters.

It matters.

Why this game can't use real german symbol?

Answer=>because is a delicate problem that....and in germany,is prohibited to use that word,to write it on the walls,or to paint them.

Anyway....moderators have the option to choose...if have respect for history or all heroes and deaths...or don't care and spit in that direction.

  :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X

Last edited April 7, 2010 at 10:52 AM by Lord Rommel

Wow, calm down. You're taking this way too seriously.

Tragedy + Time = Comedy. It's a simple reality.

If everybody always took everything as serious as you seem to do, humanity would have probably already collectively committed suicide out of depression.

Company of Heroes - and with it, this Mod - is entertainment. That means that some things are going to be exaggerated, untrue, modified, adjusted, etc.

If you want history, read a history book. This is entertainment. At one point or another, the developers will always come across an intersection where they'll have to choose between history and fun - and any good developer will choose fun.

Because that's what Games are about. Live with it.

I told just to be kept some accuracy from the history,and not to be a comedy,how you say.

And that for few good reasons .

That is all. :)

PSIHOPAT wrote:
I told just to be kept some accuracy from the history,and not to be a comedy,how you say.

And that for few good reasons .

That is all. :)

I'm sure it's historical for Nazi National flags to be draped from HQ's and buildings inatead of a Kriegsmarine flag (which is innaccurate, as they too had a Swastika in the ring and an Iron Cross in the upper left corner).

I've said this before and I'll say it again; I hate it when people feel like they need to sugar-coat some things and use euphenisms to make Jews and German Government officials happy, it was history, live with it. You're the reason why we'll have another Holocaust.

Take it easy, man.
I once take it also that serious as you (Spaniards), but calm down.
This is a freaking video-game after all. If people are about to learn history from video-games (and hollywood-movies, btw), we'll be doomed anyway.

I'm sure we all admit the benefit of Romanian troops and admit their incredible power and so on...
But please don't freak out about such a childish topic like those fucking swastikas.
Somebody has to be Nazi or even worse if he cares that much in having them in a video-game.

Look at those ******* people playing SS thinking they're somekind of "cool". Then you'll get what I mean...

Look at those ******* people playing SS

Last edited February 5, 2010 at 1:15 PM by Aouch

Aouch wrote:
Take it easy, man.
I once take it also that serious as you (Spaniards), but calm down.
This is a freaking video-game after all. If people are about to learn history from video-games (and hollywood-movies, btw), we'll be doomed anyway.

I'm sure we all admit the benefit of Romanian troops and admit their incredible power and so on...
But please don't freak out about such a childish topic like those fucking swastikas.
Somebody has to be Nazi or even worse if he cares that much in having them in a video-game.

Look at those ******* people playing SS thinking they're somekind of "cool". Then you'll get what I mean...

Look at those ******* people playing SS

No way are those SS.
Also, you children don't understand the differance between WAFFEN SS and the "POLITICAL SS". The Waffen were field troops and the forefront of German military campaigns at the time, nothing is wrong with them. The Political side of the SS is the one to blame for carrying out the Holocaust and guarding Nazi officials.

Last edited February 5, 2010 at 11:47 PM by HyperSniper999

HyperSniper999 wrote:
No way are those SS.

It's Reenactors playing SS. And making a grave mistake by singing the Tanker's song.

QuoteAlso, you children don't understand the differance between WAFFEN SS and the "POLITICAL SS". The Waffen were field troops and the forefront of German military campaigns at the time, nothing is wrong with them.

Actually, especially during the early war, there was a significant overlap of regular SS members who joined the Waffen SS to fight. While this got less and less as the war went on, it's still true.
Also, Waffen SS units were preferably used for Anti-Partisan actions, which by contemporary German doctrine meant taking and killing hostages (according to the 10 for 1 rule established by the Italians in Africa), burning down entire villages to deny the Partisans food & shelter and executing anybody suspected of supporting/being a partisan.
Waffen SS members would also immediately execute captured Jews and Bolsheviks, rather than wait for Einsatzgruppen.

QuoteThe Political side of the SS is the one to blame for carrying out the Holocaust and guarding Nazi officials.

Waffen SS (and to a much lesser extent, Wehrmacht) would regularly be used by Einsatzgruppen to seal of and clear ghettos. They would also sometimes be used as security detail for Einsatzgruppen when those committed massacres outside the Concentration Camps.

Additionally, wounded Waffen SS members would be used as Concentration Camp guards during their rehabilitation, though they were generally considered less sadistic than the non-German Handschar that was usually reserved for that. It was also considered unhonorable work, and many of them did there best to get transferred back to their unit or somewhere else as quickly as possible. But still.

Last edited February 6, 2010 at 3:27 PM by Schuultz

The SS existed. Period. That doesn't mean that they were good, or anything like that, but they did exist. What was the point of fighting a war to end the atrocity that was the Holocaust if we just hide the facts. We have to learn from history. And Aouch, just calm down. Just because someone wants a historically accurate symbol in a game does not mean they are a Nazi. Personally, I don't care whether or not the Ostheer has swastikas. For me, the more historical accuracy, the better. But if people are going to go into cardiac arrest over a f*cking symbol (excuse the language), then just keep it out. Sorry for the rant, just my 2 cents.

To be honest, I don't get why people get worked up about Swastikas, either. They were a good luck symbol in India and Tibet. What? Are we going to see four leaf clovers or rabit feet as a sign of evil after an oppressive, genocidal regime happens to use them on their flag?

HyperSniper999 wrote:
Are we going to see four leaf clovers or rabit feet as a sign of evil after an oppressive, genocidal regime happens to use them on their flag?

Short Answer: Yes

Of course the Swastika wasn't invented by the Nazis and has had different significance to different cultures at different times.

But we live in the Western culture in the 21st century, and for us, the Swastika has become associated with Nazism, Racism and the Holocaust.

There are three main reasons why a lot of people prefer to avoid the Swastika in their games, even if they are set during WW2:

1) Respect for other people's sensitivities. Believe it or not, there are a lot of people who are offended by the display of Swastikas in a Game. They believe the subject matter to be too serious and that a video game, in which you really defy all history (no matter how 'realistic' the game attempts to be), isn't the appropriate medium for it.
You might not be offended, but respect the fact that other people might.

2) Foresight. The developers usually do not wish to see a large part of their community consisting out of Nazis, White Supremacists, etc - it's bad PR. The ability to play as Nazis under the Swastika somehow tends to magically attract these kinds of folks.
Sure, they can always mod the game so that they do get Swastikas anyway, but then the developer can point at just that. It's not their problem then.

3) Legal reasons. There are several countries in which Swastikas are banned symbols, most notably of course Germany and Austria.
Together they alone have a GDP (PPP) of $US 3.25 Trillion - that's a significant market.
Therefore, almost every Game that includes a Swastika has to have it removed and replaced in the respective countries. This is an additional (though) minor strain on the Art resources of the Developer, and most of the developers consider the necessity of including the symbol as so negligible that, alongside the other reasons, they just choose to avoid including it in the first place.

Last edited February 6, 2010 at 11:24 PM by Schuultz

uhh explain what the last 20 posts had to do with the title "Italians"
to get us back on start here:
I would personaly like to see Italy play a minor role as a back up call in for the German Ostheer. OR perhaps as a minor unit. Perhaps only a certian number of them can be built like three squads or so? They should be tough but at the same point weak. They should have weaker guns, but be good at other things. They should have many new kinds of things ( if any of you have played the Mare Nostrum mod for RO you would know what I mean)

ford_prefect wrote:
"Italians were a joke"
no they are not they are good soldiers.
"This thread makes me lol..."
you being a jack ass and a prick does not help.

I was not saying Italians in general were bad they just were not exactly in love with Mussolini so morale was weak much of the time and their anti/tank quality was subpar although their fighter aircraft were some of the best for a good amount of the war. Italy just was not ready for the production demands of ammunition or equipment. Hence why Mussolini actually asked Hitler to hold the offensives for another year or so to prepare.

maybe we should all settle down and play a bit of panzers phase 2 were the italians are the main faction of the axis-campaign
they are fun to play but their tanks suck compared to the german ones

Actually , if you look at more of the italian units , they have some pretty decent stuff , i thought it would be better to make Italians instead of ostheer , because there are already 2 german teams in the game 

i don't think its a good idea, i think its bad... :)

I didn't read all the replays but when speaking about Italians I always remember nice game: Steel Panthers - turn based real hardcore strategy of WW2. There were 2 extremes :) Italians and Japanese. While sitting in trenches when you start an arty bombard on them Italians were always running and Japanese never. I think this was the point of BATTERIES when he started this topic... to make some good recession.

Last edited April 1, 2010 at 12:05 AM by wordsmith

I just realized how much I would love an Italian faction. I think the Ostheer should take priority, but if the devs want another project it would be rather interesting. They had enough of a presence and a large enough variety of weapons to be well represented in EF.

Last edited April 6, 2010 at 3:35 AM by nbeerbower

Itallians would only work if CoH was based towards early or maybe mid war but not late war. They contributed almost nothing after 1944 towards the axis.

I had the list down for an extra truck in the Commonwealth for the use of French troops, same thing wouldn't help unless it was like '39-'42

While the original idea is partially historically aligned, It could use improvement.

The Italians were not bad soldiers. BEING an Italian, I would be able to relate to some of the issues.

The Italians were scared of Mussolini. We didn't have a choice, as Mussolini conspired with Hitler.

The Italians attempted to kill Mussolini 4 times. Hitler aided Mussolini 3 of the 4 by sending in troops to control and support.

But the fourth time, Mussolini was captured and taken to the village of Giulino di Mezzegra, where he was shot twice in the chest.

Not soon after, his and his mistress's body, along with close followers, were dragged to Milan, and hung by hooks. The people of Italy shot, spat, kicked, punched, slit and split his body, already deformed.

What Versedhorison says is also true, and it solely because the Americans had invaded from the south AND in 1943, the Italians were getting angry with Mussolini, practically GIVING UP, resulting in his death.

BATTERIES makes the point. The Italians were VERY scared of Mussolini, and therefore, were not the most obedient. But they weren't bad soldiers. They fought for their life and country, not necessarily for the Fascist.

Their production and weaponry suffered because of their poor care within the country. Industrial factories were a literal joke. Before, during, and after the war, the country suffered major poverty. Infact, some of the heavier tanks were comparable to German tanks, and could compete with a M10 if required.

To get back to the addition of Italians, this is what I suggest for an Italian Unit for the Ostheer:


Suggestion 1:
Contadini Italiano (Which translates to Italian Countrymen)
5 Men, Armed with Hunting Rifles

220 Manpower

Good Accuracy, mediocre power in the rifles, slow reload

Weary from exaggerated marching, Contadini walk slower than most other infantry.

Contandini do NOT have a large health.

Can be upgraded with Carcano Rifles, for 50 Munitions
*All troops receive Carcanos
*Improved Power
*Improved Reload Speed
*Boosting Morale, Contadini walk like normal troops.
__________________________________________________
Suggestion 2

Italiano Fucilieri (Italian Riflemen)
5 men, Armed with Carcano Rifles

275 Man Power

Mediocre Accuracy, High Power, Mediocre Reload Speed

Moral is weakened, but not enough to slow the troops down.

Have Normal health, Italians can take 2 or 3 shots, but more than that and they'll fall to the ground.

The more they see their partners fall, the worse the Fucilieri fight.

Can be upgraded with 1 Beretta Modello 38 Sub Machine Gun:
*45 Munitions
*Adds one Beretta Modello 38 to the arsenal of the Fucilieri
-Gun Improvements
-*High Fire rate from the holder
-*Gun is very powerful
-*Boosting Morale, the squad reloads faster, but not the SMG holder
-*Adds Suppression fire to the ability to the squad. It IS active, you must decide when to use it.
-*This gun is quite loud compared to most WWII guns, so if considered, add high sound pitch.
___________________________________________________
To take into consideration of BATTERIES idea, I suggest the following implement:
***With very weak morale within the Italian ranks, squads have a 15% chance of disobeying a given order to move, attack, or capture. They will, instead, retreat.
***Italians CANNOT crew enemy weapons. They are trained to use normal hunting rifles and carcanos, not Mortars.
(However, this doesn't mean that if the Modello 38 is dropped, it can not be re-crewed by the Italians ;D)
___________________________________________________
(On a side note, this unit would be produced at a very basic level, either at a low level barracks or, on a doctrine layout, a starting call in for 1 CP)
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(Fun fact: The Italian Mortars were only 4.5 CM :D)

Last edited April 8, 2010 at 2:11 AM by Cranialwizard

Some of the Italians may have been decent soldiers but most were very reluctant to fight for a cause they hardly cared about, especially after a couple of years of losing. Not to be offensive to anyone but the Italians were the losers of the war.

No offense taken.

Defensive values would be little to none on these soldiers. Cover would be the only help they had.

They lost the war early because the Italians didn't care for their leadership. If they required so, they fought for their life, not for Mussolini.

If any of these suggestions were taken in, they would be used as a basic start unit, similar to Volksgrenadiers, only a bit less, and different equipment, 15% disobey, etc.

I think they'd make a good addition to the Ostheer.