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German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

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#9137

German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

Thread close - plz visit the new version at the Ostheer discussing forum. Thx.

Hi guys!
Today i present you my special Ostheer-concept. Hf with it!

[move]+++ German Ostheer +++ Last conceptupdate: 22. Jan. 2010 +++[/move]

HQ
The HQ ist the mainbuilding. Here you can research special technologies like:
Bursting charge, First-Aid-Center ( HQ is able to heal units near the hq. ).
  • UNITS:

– Pioneers 
( 3 Soldiers with 3 Kar98 – Ability: demolition charge; destroies tracks )
The unit can build following buildings:
                                - Mainstructures
                                - Sandbegs
                                - barbed wire
                                - german hedgehog
                                - trench

- Kübelwagen with MG 34
- Sankra SdKfz. 251 First-Aid



The Ostheer use a special new way to build their units. The Ostheer is able to switch its unit-pool between different battle-situations.
That means: each building had three unit-pools. One neutral unit-pool ( can be used all the time! ), one offensiv unit-pool and one defensiv-pool.
After buildung the structure the player can recruit the neutral units. When he wants to build offensiv units, he had to research the upgrade, which needs time and resources! BUT when the battle-situation changes and the player needs defensiv units he can get back to the building and research the defensiv-pool by an upgrade. But this will coast some researchtime and resources!
The special is that he can change the building upgrade all the time for any battlesituation.



HQ of the Infantry – HQ der infanteristischen Streitkräfte:
Neutral Units:
- Landserzug
( 5 soldiers with Kar98 )
  • Upgrades:

5xG43
OR „PzFaust 60“: 2 soldiers are able to use the Panzerfaust when the the ability Panzerfaust is activated
  • Ability:

Panzerfaust: 2 soldiers use their Panzerfaust
Handgranate: throw a granate.
- MG 42 Team

Offensive Units ( Research Building-Upgrade )
- Sniper with Kar98 Scope
  • Ability:

Binoculars

Defensive Units: ( Research Building-Upgrade )
- Mortar 8cm
  • Ability:
Foggranate

Technology at the HQ of the Infantry:

- Men against Tanks! –Ability Panzerfaust cost nothing.
- Feldwebel – Landserzug get one more soldier, a feldwebel, with a Stg. 44, who influence the battleperformence of the squad.



HQ of the Panzergrenadiere - HQ der Panzergrenadiere:
Neutral Units:
- SdKfz. 251 ( with MG 42 )
- Heavy Panzergrenadiere
( 5 soldiers with 5xMP40 )
  • Upgrade:

1xPanzerschreck
  • Ability:

Granateshower – Throw a lot of granates
  • Ability when squad had the Panzerschreck:

Engineattack – destroies the engine of a tank.

Offensive Units: ( Research Building-Upgrade )
- Panzer III Ausf. J L/42
- Panzer II Ausf. L „Luchs“

Defensive Units: ( Research Building-Upgrade )
- SdKfz. 251/22 Pak-Wagen Pak 40 7,5cm - IMAGE
  • Ability:

Carmouflage
- 2cm Flak 38
  • Ability:

„Abprotzen“ – Crew directs gun into fireposition and is so no more able to move the gun but its accuracy is clear better!
"Aufprotzen" – Gun is now mobile )
Info: The Flak is able to fire during movement but so it is hard to hit something.

Technologyat the HQ of the Panzergrenadiere:

- Schürzen – Panzer III gets Sidearmor/Schürzen.
----------
- KwK 5cm L/60 – Higher weapondemage of the Panzer III
OR ( If you develop one of it you will disable the other technologie ;) )
- KwK 7,5cm L/24 - Better against infantry.
----------



HQ of the Panzertroups - HQ der Panzerstreitkräfte:
Neutral Units:
- Bergepioniere
( 3 soldiers with 3xKar98 )
  • passive Ability:
better repair
  • REWARD UNIT:

- Bergepanther
- Brummbär ( short range – can demage tanks! )

Offensive Units: ( Research Building-Upgrade )
( Units are now able to use „better firerate“ – Panzers can now fire more granates for a short period of time )
- Panzer IV Ausf. H

- ( Tiger I ( spätes Baulos/ late Version ))
  • Need Doctrin Heeresunterstützungsverbände

- ( Panther Ausf. A )
  • Need Doctrin Panzerkampfverbände

- ( Sturmgeschütz III Ausf. G ( low priced! ))
  • Need Doctrin Festungsverbände


Defensive Units: ( Research Building-Upgrade )
( Panzers are now able to dig in and to swith munition ( anti-panzer oder anti-infantry-granates ) )
- Marder II
- leichte Panzerartillerie Wespe




DOCTRINS

Heeresunterstützungsverbände ( Army support troups )

Luftwaffeneinsatz ( Airforcemission ):

- Luftwaffenfeldsoldaten
Call in a squad Luftwaffenfeldsoldaten.
( 6 soldiers with 4xKar98, 2xLMG 42 )
  • Ability:

built trenches - lowpriced ( Soldiers with no battleexperiance [ like Conscripts ] )

- Panzerabwehr der Luftwaffenfelddivision( Antitankweapons for Luftwaffenfelddivision )
Call in a heavy Pak 40 7,5cm.

- StuKa Einsatz ( StuKa Attack )
For a short peroid of time Ju 87 StuKas fly over the battlefield and attack every enemy spotted.

Heeressturmpioniere ( Heeres-Pioneer troups ):

- „Knüppeldamm“
All Untis move with maximal speed in landscape or on streets/ All mechanized units can move with full speed on every ground for a short peroid of time.

- Sturmpioniere
Call in a squad Sturmpioniere.
( 4 soldiers with 2x Flamthrower, 2xMP40 )
  • Ability:
Run, Geballte Ladung ( double impact ), building booby traps.

- Funklenkpanzer StuG III
Call in a Funklenkkommandowagen/ radio-operation StuG III.

Funklenkpanzer:
A radio-opreation-panzer is a normal panzer but he is able to build a Goliath-tank which drives automaticaly into the marked target where the goliath blows himself up.
-> This Goliath is faster and better ( more Hardpoints ) then the Wehrmacht-version! This guarantees the effectiv and sense of the StuG ;)


Panzerkampfverbände ( Tankbattlegroups )

Panzervernichtungsschlacht ( Panzerbattle ):

- Panzervernichtungsschlacht
Every Infantryunit can use the Panzerfaust.

- „Horrido, Hurra!“
Battle cry of the Panzergrenadieres which gives bonus to the infantry.
For a short period of time the player get back every infantryunit he has lost in the battle.

- Schwere Panzerjäger ( Heavy Sturmgeschütz )
Call in a Jagdpanzer Ferdiandt.

Blitzkrieg:

- „Panzer Marsch!“
Panzers can move faster and fire faster for a short periode of time and panzers are able to capture enemy territory.

- Thoma-Schürze
All panzers are upgraded with Thomal-Schürzen. Because of this new Sidearmor panzers cost less resources to produce und the need less time to build then before.

- Panzerartillerie
Call in a Panzerwerfer 42.



Festungsverbände ( Fortresstroups )

Festungsbau ( Fortification ):

- Luftversorgung ( Airsupport )
Ju 52 Air supplay plain flies fuel, munition and weapons into the battlearea.

- Festungsbau
Pioneers are able to build heavy defence like MG-Nest, Anti-Tank-Bunker, Anti-Air-Bunker,  and minefields.

  • AA-Bunker:

It is a bunker with an anti-air-gun ( 2cm Flak 38, 2cm Quadgun or 3,7cm Flak 18 ) on it. One side it can fight against fighters and on the other side it will protect infantry against airstrikes.
  • AT-Bunker:

A small bunker with a 37mm Pak 36 Heeresanklopfgerät. The reason: By Hitler all weapons for fortification with a caliber over 5cm should transport to western front in 1944.
-> Bunkers can be garrison by Infantry ( e.g. MG 42 Team ).

- 10.5cm leFh 18/40
Call in a leFh 18.
  • Abilities:

Smokegranates - Fire a salve of smokegranate. If such a grante hits a tank, the tank is blind for a period of time!

Direct Fire! - With this ability the leFh 18 can fire directly on targets like an anti-tank gun. So it is extremly effectiv against any unit! )

Improvisationskampf ( Battleimprovisation ):

- Aufstellung des Volkssturms
The Infantry of the Ostheer is now cheaper and
can build faster.

- Rohstoffausbeutung
For a short periode of time you get more resources out of your territories.

- sPzAbteilung 503. "Feldherrnhalle"
Call in a Kingtiger ( henschel turret ).
( !!!For this the Jagdtiger will be a reward unit for the Kingtiger at the old Wehrmacht Terror Doctrin!!! )



captured weapons
Beutwaffen:
The Ostheer isnt able to use heavy weapons of the red army because german steel is better then this red stuff!

Sectorprotection
Sektorensicherung:
The Ostheer secured resources by their dominance. That means: More soldiers in a territory will prodruce more resources, but their must be a limit, because of the balance!

Veterancy:
Veterancy will be gained by productiontime. A units which is build up for a longer time had more time to get training with their weaponsystem. So units with long production times had a high veterancy.
You can decide at your HQ ( 4 buttons ):
  • Build fast units with no veterancy.


  • Build units with veterancy I,
    but they need more buildingtime then units
    without veterancy-training.


  • Build units with veterancy II,
    but they need more buildingtime then units
    with veterancy I training.


  • Build units with veterancy III,
    but they need more buildingtime and more ressources
    then units with veterancy II training.


Horrido!
A Concept by Lord Rommel
May the force be with you.

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Last edited February 4, 2010 at 10:33 PM by Lord Rommel

#9141

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

i like your ideas a lot and especially the on of neutral/defensive/offensive unit-pools.

some questions:
*can you build the neutral units all the time? or just neutral OR defensive OR offensive?
*SdKfz. 251: any abilites or details?
*what does Scharfschütze Ability: Binoculars? increase line of sight?
*3,7cm Flak 18: is it the one on a truck (guess opel blitz or so)?
*sFh 18: a mobile unit or an stationary entranchement?
BurroDiablo wrote:
Jagd[tiger] is a buildable replacement for the Kettenkrad... It can cloak and cap points. :P
#9145

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

The pool idea is that you have to choose your gameplay and tactic. You build a building like HQ of the Panzergrenadiers.
When the buildigung is ready, you can just recrut the units out of the neutral unitpool.
( Yes; you can build the neutral units all the time! )

NOW you have to choose. If you are a more offensive player you will choose the offensiv. If you are a defensiv player, you will choose the defensive units.
So you had two buttons in a building: one to choose the offensive pool and one to choose the defensiv pool. Both cost resources and researchtime.
BUT THE SPECIAL is that you are able to change the unitpool! For some resources and researchtime you can change the building form offensiv to defensiv and other way round!
This will allowe you to get a direct control on you gameplay!

The Units:
*SdKfz. 251: any abilites or details?
No abilities. With its MG 42 it is a support unit
and a troupcarrier.

*what does Scharfschütze Ability: Binoculars? increase line of sight?
Correct. With binocular you can encrease the maximum view.

*3,7cm Flak 18: is it the one on a truck (guess opel blitz or so)?
NO. The crew pull this unit like on this photo:
Forum post image
( Okay; Here is a 2cm xD But it is the same idea )
BUT when they have to fire now the accuracy isnt very well so this gun have the ability "abprotzen". Crew built their gun up, accuracy is better but they cant move the gun anymore until they make them again mobile by the ability ( "aufprotzen" ).

*sFh 18: a mobile unit or an stationary entranchement?
Mobile. It is boring that artillery canones are all the time inmobile. So this gun is very slow but you can move it! No complicatet emplacments to built!

Hope i could answer some questions!
( und hoffe, dass du mein "Denglish" verstehst ;) )
May the force be with you.

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Last edited September 10, 2009 at 8:32 PM by Lord Rommel

#9146

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

Yea, Very clever Ideas there, I like how your going to use models already made by other CoH Modders, should cut some time off for you guys,

Now lets see...

1) An AA Bunker?  Will it be like the Bofors emplacement execpt its a 20mm cannon, and made out of concrete?

2) Whats the point of calling in the sFh 18 when You have Wespe? How is it better?

3) Panzer Marsch, move faster and can Cap Territory?
Its one or the other for me, How about giving all your tanks Flank Speed ablillity?

4) Funklenkpanzer StuG III, it only builds goliaths? thats its only ablitlity? why not give it Bonuses to nearby tanks like the Cromwell Command tank?

5) Schwere Panzerjäger, now is that the Elefant or the JagdTiger?

Thats enough Questions for now,  ;)
#9147

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

hab es verstanden ;)

what i meant was: when i choose offensive type, can i still build neutral units? or just the offensive units? but after reading through it once more i think i can build both (correct me if i'm wrong)... i think the mobile infantry-operated flak unit would add something unique.
and another idea: instead of ressource costs for changing from offensive to defensive pool, just a long cooldown to prevent players from doing it all the time, but still make it possible to change production in emergency situations without consuming too many ressources.

(same in german...) oder auf deutsch ;D damit wir uns besser verstehen: wenn ich das gebäude baue, kann ich neutrale einheiten bauen und dann wählen, ob ich zusätzlich offensive oder defensive einheiten bauen will und dann später hin und her wechseln und das so oft ich will, oder?
hatte in etwa die selbe idee mit der flak. wäre mal ne gute abwechselung.
noch eine idee: statt riesiger kosten für die umstellung der produktion, nur eine lange wartezeit. wenn man von offensive auf defensive umstellt, kann man halt ne weile nicht wieder zurück umstellen. so würde verhindert, dass jmd immer schnell wechselt und seine einheiten baut, aber wenn man angegriffen wird, kann man wechseln, ohne seine ganzen ressourcen dafür zu verwenden.
BurroDiablo wrote:
Jagd[tiger] is a buildable replacement for the Kettenkrad... It can cloak and cap points. :P
#9148

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

1) An AA Bunker?  Will it be like the Bofors emplacement execpt its a 20mm cannon, and made out of concrete?

It is a bunker with an anti-air-gun on it. One side it can fight against fighters and on the other side it will protect infantry against airstrikes.

2) Whats the point of calling in the sFh 18 when You have Wespe? How is it better?

Wespe had a better range and is much stronger. The caliber is higher, the explosion is better and it can perhaps use an ability ( space for your ideas ).

3) Panzer Marsch, move faster and can Cap Territory?
Its one or the other for me, How about giving all your tanks Flank Speed ablillity?

I thought both is cool but perhaps you are right and one thing had to be delet for gamebalance.

4) Funklenkpanzer StuG III, it only builds goliaths? thats its only ablitlity? why not give it Bonuses to nearby tanks like the Cromwell Command tank?

The Funklenkabteilungen were a special unit by german pioneer troups ( and because of this NO bonuses for other tanks! ). They fight for the first time in kursk. This groups are specialized in fighting against fortification and emplacements ( and tanks ). The StuG III is a funklenkkommandowagen that means that in this StuG is the radio-operator who command a radio-command Goliath into the target. This unit make this automaticaly. Player marks a target, goliath will be porduces by the StuG and then it drives into the target und blow up.


5) Schwere Panzerjäger, now is that the Elefant or the JagdTiger?
I wirte Jagdpanzer Ferdiandt ;) Elefant without MG -> Ferdiandt ;)

Hope i could answer this questions.
May the force be with you.

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Last edited September 11, 2009 at 5:01 PM by Lord Rommel

#9152

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

Tanks for the quick response,  ;D

Now about the StuG III, , it seems that its not powerful enough to be a late game tank, Building goliaths is neat but those things die so easly, and are they free? If you could give the tank a another ablility I'd be good with that, otherwise its not worth the Manpower to call in, does it even have a decent gun?

On to the Special Bunkers, Personally I think having the ablility to garrison a AT, AA or Mortar Bunker with a MG42 Squad or other troops would really make choosing that Doctrine a smart idea,

Also, How about an Observation Bunker? You can Build it anywhere, it Camos itself, and gives you LOS on that Sector, seems pretty niffty right?
#9168

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

*Now about the StuG III, , it seems that its not powerful enough to be a late game tank, Building goliaths is neat but those things die so easly, and are they free? If you could give the tank a another ablility I'd be good with that, otherwise its not worth the Manpower to call in, does it even have a decent gun?

I think you would call it in ;) A StuG III with its StuK 7.5cm ( long barrled ) is a powerful tankhunter and and its Goliath is a nice surprice for the enemy defensive. The point here is that you have not to control the Goliath. Just place the radiomark by klicking on the ground and the rest makes the goliath by himself. Okay. You can make the Goliath faster and give him more hardpoints so that the most Goliaths reach their target. But this would be a balancing theme. The idea is the mainidea.

*On to the Special Bunkers, Personally I think having the ablility to garrison a AT, AA or Mortar Bunker with a MG42 Squad or other troops would really make choosing that Doctrine a smart idea,

Well. Okay. Could be a cool idea. I will add it ;) Thx.

*Also, How about an Observation Bunker? You can Build it anywhere, it Camos itself, and gives you LOS on that Sector, seems pretty niffty right?

For the sectors i had an other system ;) Read the information under "Sektorensicherung" - last point in the concept ;)
May the force be with you.

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#9226

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

i personally think that this is actually the best concept for the ostheer- but i have one question: will the heavy defence that the pioneers can build with the festungsverbände-doctrine will cost max. manpower? (sry for my bad english- so here is my question in german: sind die verteidigeungsanlagen der festungsverbände-doktrin so angelegt wie bei den briten, also dass sie zum bevölkerungslimit angerechnet werden?)

#9231

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

Thank you very much ;)
With the bunkers:
You can see that i havent made and price for a unit.
So this is a thing that will finial balanced by beta playing.
Perhaps you can use the stats and cost of british emplacements but you have to see. Balance. No idea ^^

Edit: I had add some new abilities for my sFh 18 ;)
Edit2: New techupgrades at the HQ of the Panzergrenadiere.
May the force be with you.

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Last edited September 21, 2009 at 11:35 PM by Lord Rommel

#9700

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

I wonder, is the sFh 18 movable? The gun is massive and I dont think 2 guys can move it like an AT-Gun,

Also, I was looking at pics for the sFh 18 when I found this,
Forum post image

Its a Bison 2, a very unique German vehicle,
#9702

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

The Bison II was just used in Africa. British called them Rommel funnies ( e.g. Diana-SfL, PanzerSfL II or Bison II ) ;D

But you are right. Think the sFh 18 is to heavy.
Okay. I replace it with the leFh 18:
Forum post image
Same abilities like the sFh 18 before.

LeFh 18
Abilities:
Smokegranates
- Fire a salve of smokegranate. If such a grante hits a tank, the tank is blind for a period of time! -

-> Perhaps some of you know the german trainingfilm MAN AGAINST TANKS. The idea of blind tanks by smoke is out of this film and this technic was often used at the eastern front.

Direct Fire
- With this ability the leFh 18 can fire directly on targets like an anti-tank gun. So it is extremly effectiv against any unit! -

-> During the Africa-campaign Rommels allways had to find new ways to stop enemy tanks which had break through his lines and so he ordered the artillery to fight in direct fire like an anti-tank gun against enemy tanks. This was a very effectiv methode as long as the tanks werent supported by infantry or airunits ;)
May the force be with you.

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Last edited September 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM by Lord Rommel

#9705

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

So...  its a light-field Howitzer,
meaning it can fire a barrage like the American 105 Howitzer,
Because its actually it is a 105 mm round,

Except its movable, can fire directly at armor, and has smoke rounds... here's an idea,

Turn it into an emplacement, you build it like you would any other an emplacement, its basically a US 105 entrenched, so it can only fire its gun in one direction, but it gets the ablilties you want, its can fire at Tanks, and have smoke rounds,

what do you say to that?


#9706

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

I dont realy like this emplacment howitzers  ;)
The great thing is that it makes more fun when
your crew can pull this weapon over the map.

And when i see that the red army had such an emplacment
which is perhaps lowerpriced then my LeFh 18 i think it is just
fair when german howitzer leFh 18 is able to run away xD

Okay. In the end the abilities should survive because
they are the great new improvment of my howitzer.
May the force be with you.

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Last edited September 23, 2009 at 12:02 AM by Lord Rommel

#9709

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

i think u need to chose mobilety ore ur great powers
yes .... im sorry ><
bcouse i was  born as a complete utter bastard
#9713

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

Your suggestion for the German Ostheer is IMO the best one so far. :)
I especially like the idea of the three different "unit-pools" and the movable artillery/aa-gun.
However, you have to make sure that the Ostheer won't be OP...  ;D

Some little improvements:

  1. Why do you have the Landserzug and the Panzerfaustjäger? Just have one unit, similiar to the Volksgrenadiere, who can be upgrated with both G43 and Panzerfausts?

  2. G43 should be one without the scope. I think it can easily be done with modelmixing; read something about it on forums.relicnews.com.

  3. The Feldwebel-upgrade should also be available to Schwere Panzergrenadiere. To prevent OP, just make them have 4 instead of 5 squadmembers (+ 1 Feldwebel, of course)

  4. I also like the fact, that most, if not every new vehicle, you suggest, is either already available as model or being planned by modelers.
    But please! I like to have a Raupenschlepper Ost (RSO), maybe as replacement for the Sd.Kfz. 251/8 KrankenPzw"?



Just my 2 cents...  ;)
In memoriam MrScruff
The Wehrmacht in the East

Obstheer FTW!
#9715

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

Some little improvements:

  1. Why do you have the Landserzug and the Panzerfaustjäger? Just have one unit, similiar to the Volksgrenadiere, who can be upgrated with both G43 and Panzerfausts?

-> One Unit is able to fight against the infantry so they had a G43 upgrade and the other group is trained to fight against tanks with 2 Panzerfäusten.

  • G43 should be one without the scope. I think it can easily be done with modelmixing; read something about it on forums.relicnews.com.

-> I mean the G43 WOTHOUT scope for the Landserzug ;)
Scoped G43 would be very overpowered.

  • The Feldwebel-upgrade should also be available to Schwere Panzergrenadiere. To prevent OP, just make them have 4 instead of 5 squadmembers (+ 1 Feldwebel, of course)

-> Perhaps upgrade can be linked with special conditions to research this upgrade like "need buildung nr. 3" or "need 5 squads of Landserzug" or something like that.

  • I also like the fact, that most, if not every new vehicle, you suggest, is either already available as model or being planned by modelers.
    But please! I like to have a Raupenschlepper Ost (RSO), maybe as replacement for the Sd.Kfz. 251/8 KrankenPzw"?


-> Hm. Have no idea where i could put this unit in...but i will thnik about it.

  • "you have to make sure that the Ostheer won't be OP"

-> Unitprice, supportcoasts and unitsstats will be important here.
I think that this point can be fixed by a beta version of such a concept  ;)

Just my 2 cents...  ;)
-> Just my answers  ;)
May the force be with you.

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Last edited September 23, 2009 at 10:07 PM by Lord Rommel

#9779

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

Well, Here's your answer to the Howitzer you wanted,

Light field howitzer

A little reskin, add the abillies you want and your done,
what do ya think?
#9783

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

No. This isnt a LeFh 18. This is a rape of the LeFh 18 by Relic xD A New Model would be cool  ;)

Edit: So. I'm away for 1 week. If their is a question so write it here in this thread or send me a pm.
Horrido guys!
May the force be with you.

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Last edited September 25, 2009 at 6:34 PM by Lord Rommel

#10006

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

Something I just stumbled across:
Lord wrote:
- sSS.-PzAbteilung
Call in a Kingtiger ( henschel turret ).
( !!!For this the Jagdtiger replace the Kingtiger at the Terror-doctrin of the old Wehrmacht!!! )

I think the Devs stated, that they won't replace or change anything of the "old" factions.
Therefore: Bad idea.  ;)

Also, for the Landserzug/Panzerfaustjäger:
I wanted to say, "let's just have one basic infantry unit in order to not complicate things too much."
So, this unit can be upgraded with G43 or Panzerfausts.
Sounds a bit better, doesn't it?  ;)


In memoriam MrScruff
The Wehrmacht in the East

Obstheer FTW!
#10068

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

Aouch wrote:
Something I just stumbled across:
Lord wrote:
- sSS.-PzAbteilung
Call in a Kingtiger ( henschel turret ).
( !!!For this the Jagdtiger replace the Kingtiger at the Terror-doctrin of the old Wehrmacht!!! )

I think the Devs stated, that they won't replace or change anything of the "old" factions.
Therefore: Bad idea.  ;)

-> This is just one change ;) And it is just my hope.

Also, for the Landserzug/Panzerfaustjäger:
I wanted to say, "let's just have one basic infantry unit in order to not complicate things too much."
So, this unit can be upgraded with G43 or Panzerfausts.
Sounds a bit better, doesn't it?  ;)

-> Hm. Okay. Some other persons said the same...i will made one squad out of it.




May the force be with you.

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#10087

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

"No. This isnt a LeFh 18. This is a rape of the LeFh 18 by Relic xD A New Model would be cool" 

I would like a new model too, but personally i dont want to wait another 2 years or so just to see a different model that does the same thing, if its there, why not use it? it would save alot of time,


#10089

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

I think the EF Team need all this time for the red army because they didnt know how they could made new models and animations with the coh tools.
So i think that they are now able to make a Ostheer faster then the red army because they had enough experiance with the coh tools.
May the force be with you.

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#10090

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

The Ostheer won't even take half as long as the Soviets have. The majority of German models are already in game, we'll just reskin some. Obviously, we'll have new models too, but not to the extent of the Soviets (since we had to create them from scratch)
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Smells like. Victory.
#10092

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

Will you (the EF-Team) use some of the new community-vehicle-models (http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=232125) or do them yourself from scratch? Using already existing costum-models would save you alot of time...

Lord wrote:
- Pioneers - OK (maybe reskin?)
- Kübelwagen with MG 34 - planned
- Sankra SdKfz. 251 - reskin
- Landserzug - reskin (vcoh WH skin looks stupid)
- G43 w/o scope - ? (modelmix?)
- MG 42 Team - OK (new skin?)
- Sniper - OK
- Mortar 8cm - OK (new skin?)
- Feldwebel – ? (reskin volx or gren?)
- SdKfz. 251 ( with MG 42 ) - OK
- Heavy Panzergrenadiere - reskin (... of vcoh Sturmtruppen)
- Panzer III Ausf. J L/42 - nothing planned yet
  - Schürzen – has do be done with PzKpfw III
  - KwK 5cm L/60 – has do be done with PzKpfw III
  - KwK 7,5cm L/24 - has do be done with PzKpfw III
- Panzer II Ausf. L „Luchs“ - nothing planned yet
- SdKfz. 251/22 Pak-Wagen Pak 40 7,5cm - nothing planned yet
- 2cm Flak 38 - nothing planned yet
- Bergepioniere - reskin / new model
- leichte Panzerartillerie Wespe - nothing planned yet
- Panzer IV Ausf. H - modelmix
- Tiger I - reskin (maybe some extra details like scruffs "decals"-thingy)
- Panther Ausf. A - reskin (?)
- JgPz 38 t „Hetzer“ – OK
- Marder II - nothing planned yet
- Brummbär - OK
- Luftwaffenfeldsoldaten - OK
- Pak 43/41 8,8cm - nothing planned yet
- Ju 87 StuKas - OK
- Sturmpioniere - reskin
- Funklenkpanzer StuG III - OK (use MrScruffs "Decals-Version")
- Jagdpanzer Ferdiandt - planned (Elefant at least)
- Thomaschürzen - ? (I know there're models/skins, but the mesh disappears at a certain viewdistance, so this will perhaps not make any sence at all)
- Panzerwerfer 42 - OK (anims? don't remember...)
- Ju 52 - ? (I know there was one, but now I can't find it anymore  :-\ )
- MG-Nest - OK
- Anti-Tank-Bunker - ? (should be possible; BK-mod has a bunker with an 88...)
- Anti-Air-Bunker - ? (Don't know how it should look like)
- Mortarbunker - OK (at least that big one, BK-mod for example)
- Belgian gates - ? (they're in some maps, however I don't see any sence in having them at all)
- leFh 18 - OK (use relic's model for god's sake)
- Ausfallgruppe - OK/reskin (use vcoh's Sturmgrenadiere)
- sSS.-PzAbteilung - !


A lot of red/orange, I know, but you can use other vehicles as a placeholder and add them later.
In memoriam MrScruff
The Wehrmacht in the East

Obstheer FTW!

Last edited October 5, 2009 at 1:42 PM by Aouch

#10094

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

As game developers we are lazy by nature, so ready-made models are a fine advantage. However, we are also perfectionists by nature, so we would like it all done how we want it done.
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#10097

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

Cointet-element aka Belgian Gate or C-element, was a heavy steal gate 3 meters wide and 2 meters high, the Cointet-element was the lead element of the belgian KW-Line as tank blockades. In total there were build 77.000 Cointet-elementen alot of the where placed on the KW-line (between Koningshooikt en Waver). afther the german invasion the germans used the Cointet-elementen though europe as blockade on roads bridges and on the beaches on the northsea.

the germans couldnt drive trough them they needed to get around them they were very very useful
yes .... im sorry ><
bcouse i was  born as a complete utter bastard

Last edited October 7, 2009 at 6:29 PM by bastex

#10100

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

@Aouch:
Panzer IV H is already in CoH ( Panzer IV long-barreld with sidearmour ) and Panther Ausf. A, too.
And the Ju-52 was made by MrScruff, but i would not see this unit or can you see the C-47 skytrain when us army drops their supplies?
At last; in Coh isn't a StuG III. It is a Stug IV. Look at the wheels  ;)

May the force be with you.

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#10101

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

This is the best suggestion i've seen yet.
Really nice concept Mr. Rommel. Looks fine.

There is only one thing we should be talking about. The doctrines. They all go the same way. The first 2 steps give you some weaker abilities - and the last gives you a
kick-ass-vehicle. (just in one case a kick-ass-plane :) )

But still, this concepts are good ones. But maybe we should be talking about this to get a bit variety in thier doctrine abilities !

Du weißt was ich meine ;) !
Im ready to make some suggestions  :)
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#10103

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

bastex wrote:
Cointet-element aka Belgian Gateor C-element, was a heavy steal gate 3 meters wide and 2 meters high, the Cointet-element was the lead element of the belgian KW-Line as tank blockades. In total there were build 77.000 Cointet-elementen alot of the where placed on the KW-line (between Koningshooikt en Waver). afther the german invasion the germans used the Cointet-elementen though europe as blockade on roads bridges and on the beaches on the northsea.

the germans couldnt drive trough them they needed to get around them they were very very useful


We've discussed this before haven't we? No C-Elements or C-Element clones were transpoted to/constructed on the Eastern Front... they stayed in the West.
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Smells like. Victory.
#10172

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

did you read the whole thing ?...

he germans used the Cointet-elementen through europe as blockade on roads bridges and on the beaches on the northsea.

aka the west ...
yes .... im sorry ><
bcouse i was  born as a complete utter bastard
#10277

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

My Ostheer concept: (Lord Rommel's concept with some ideas/changes from my side  ;D)

Lord wrote:
Look here.
In memoriam MrScruff
The Wehrmacht in the East

Obstheer FTW!

Last edited November 14, 2009 at 5:24 PM by Aouch

#10321

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

    Sorry man, but i dont like some of your improvents  ;)


      HQ

      [list]
    1. Kübelwagen - Fast recon vehicle. Unarmed.  - Okay. With or without MG - i like the Kübel and so i want to see this unit in a mod.


    HQ of the Infantry
    • Landserzug - 5 soldiers armed with 5x Kar98k. Standard-infantry of the Ostheer. Upgrades: G43 (Squad is armed with 5x G43) or Panzerfaust. Abilities: Fire Panzerfaust (need upgrade "Panzerfaust"), Throw grenade (unit throws a Stielhandgranate)
      - the keypoint here were the 2(!) Panzerfaust-Gunners. When two Gunners use a Panzerfaust at the same time for the same target this squad gets a high priority in the late game against the heavy enemies.


    HQ of the Panzertroups
    • SdKfz. 124 "Wespe" - Self-propelled artillery vehicle with a 105mm howitzer.
      - okay. could realy be placed here ( chanbe with the Brummbär ).


    • - Marder II - lowpriced tankhunter

    - You need a second unit here at the defensiv pool because you need time to switch the unitpool and without tankhunter here you could get big trouble when the enemy had a big tankforce.

    Festungsverbände ( Fortresstroups )
    • Here i prefer my old version, because with this doctrin you should simulate the story and battles of the Festungen at the eastern front and especially the battles of the german fronttowns. The bunkers where the heavy defense against the enemy and battlegroups of kingtiger and Aufallstruppen should start heavy counterattacks.


    Horrdio Rommel.

May the force be with you.

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Last edited October 11, 2009 at 5:55 PM by Lord Rommel

#10332

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

Lord wrote:
- the keypoint here were the 2(!) Panzerfaust-Gunners. When two Gunners use a Panzerfaust at the same time for the same target this squad gets a high priority in the late game against the heavy enemies.
Mhhh, I see the problem. Maybe change "Men against tanks!", so two Panzerfausts are fired when this upgrade was purchased and also having the ability for (some) infantry to throw "Geballte Ladungen".
Firing Panzerfausts for free has to go for that. So no excessive panzerfaust-spamming.

  • SdKfz. 124 "Wespe" - Self-propelled artillery vehicle with a 105mm howitzer.
    - okay. could realy be placed here ( chanbe with the Brummbär ).

Actually I changed that only for naming reasons. STURMpanzer as a defensiv unit? Sounds a bit strange...  ;D However, I think having the "your way", with Brummbär as defensiv unit is still the best decision.

  • - Marder II - lowpriced tankhunter

- You need a second unit here at the defensiv pool because you need time to switch the unitpool and without tankhunter here you could get big trouble when the enemy had a big tankforce.
A second unit, OK. For tankhunter, see my comment below.

Festungsverbände ( Fortresstroups )
  • Here i prefer my old version, because with this doctrin you should simulate the story and battles of the Festungen at the eastern front and especially the battles of the german fronttowns. The bunkers where the heavy defense against the enemy and battlegroups of kingtiger and Aufallstruppen should start heavy counterattacks.

´[]Different opinions here. You're for heavy fortifications and even heavier tanks, while I think light/improvised defenses and anti-tank-tactics are enough.


My concept of the Ostheer isn't really a concept. The one who chose the Ostheer as faction should IMO don't get too strong units (except Ferdinand), but also no real weak ones.
When the heavy allied tanks appear, he has to rely on infantry-anti-tank-tactics (Panzerfaust, Mines, Charges etc.) and of course: Artillery!
Ostheer doesn't have any offmap arty (except the Stukas, but they aren't a real arty), but they can call in/build a hell lot of different artillery-units.

My concept also shouldn't be realistic, but instead differs a bit from the other factions. Nonetheless, I'm going to improve it a bit now. ;)

I'm still wondering, how similiar our concepts one the paper are, despite the fact, we have two different concepts in mind.
In memoriam MrScruff
The Wehrmacht in the East

Obstheer FTW!

Last edited October 11, 2009 at 8:30 PM by Aouch

#10334

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

My concept was inspire by the historical battles mixed with some new gameideas.
So my Ostheer is a very felxibal army because it can change its battlesituation. If you play more offensive you will need tanks and armored recon-vehicles. If you play more devensive you will need weapons for tankhunting oder airprotection and so i build up this concept too represent this concept.

This is like on the eastern front where offensive and defensive situations change very often. Offensive, massive tankattacks were displaced by defensive battles with entrenched anti tanks guns, mortars, anti-air and same way around.

QuoteMhhh, I see the problem. Maybe change "Men against tanks!", so two Panzerfausts are fired when this upgrade was purchased and also having the ability for (some) infantry to throw "Geballte Ladungen".
Firing Panzerfausts for free has to go for that. So no excessive panzerfaust-spamming.


But this was the plan
- The ostheer used more then hundred thousands of
Panzerfäuste PER MONTH! Tousends too stop the red wave.
This was the main-anti-tank-weapon of the Landser.

QuoteFestungsverbände ( Fortresstroups )

    * Here i prefer my old version, because with this doctrin you should simulate the story and battles of the Festungen at the eastern front and especially the battles of the german fronttowns. The bunkers where the heavy defense against the enemy and battlegroups of kingtiger and Aufallstruppen should start heavy counterattacks.

Different opinions here. You're for heavy fortifications and even heavier tanks, while I think light/improvised defenses and anti-tank-tactics are enough.

-> I think you havent read my note about the anti-tankgun-bunker ;) A small bunker ( earthbunker - perhaps out of wood and some plants and thnings like this ) with a 3,7cm Pak 36 'Heeresanlopfgerät'. This isnt a strong at-weapon but it will protect you against light armor raids ( T-60, Tetrach, Staghound? ).
So with this light fortifications you have to build up a defenseline and when enemy attack you here you can start counterattacks with infantry and with lowpriced tank-hunters like the Jagdpanzer 38 t OR with an heavy tank like the kingtiger.
May the force be with you.

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Last edited October 13, 2009 at 9:32 PM by Lord Rommel

#10481

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

Mhhh, made some improvements to my concept:

  1. Added "Mobiler Gefechtsstand". Only unit which can heal, also can repair. Very weak (just a truck) and vulnerable, so it has to stay behind the lines. Just like a Gefechtstross of the artillery or infantry.

  2. Re-change Wespe<->Brummbär

  3. Added Marder III (it's easier to use a already existant unit than modelmix or make a new one from scratch) to T3 DEF

  4. Landser can use 2 panzerfausts after upgrade -> no OP in early-game.

  5. Deleted abilities for panzers (dug-in etc.) when upgrade T3 to DEF/OF (were a bit OP IMO)

  6. Replaced Hetzer in favour of StuG III

  7. Added Recon plane to Doctrin Army support troups

  8. Got rid of the 8.8cm PaK43
in favour of the Storch. (fits better into "air-mission-branch")
  • Added "Panzergranate40-Ability" to Doctrin Tankbattlegroups.

  • Added the Panzerfaust-cost to Doctrin tankbattlegroups.

  • "Horrida Hurra!" is now part of the blitzkrieg-branch from Doctrin Tankbattlegroups.

  • Removed Thomaschürzen from the blitzkrieg-branch.

  • Removed Ausfallgruppen from Doctrin Festungsverbände. (Too similiar to "Heavy Panzergrenadiere", I think, thus no need for this unit.)

  • Changed leFH18 into a leFH18 18/40. It's basicly the same unit, but as "light"-version, so it won't odd when soldiers carry around this heavy cannon.

  • Removed some buildings from "Festungsbau". Reason: Some of the entrenchments (e.g. mortar- or AA-bunker) would encourage passiv playing to much. Maybe that was your intention (actually I know it was  ;) ), however, a lot of CoH-players disrespect bunker-players and bunker-maps (Schelde etc.), so I think it would be a bad idea to make too strong defense-structures.
    (I have to say that I also like bunker-building and strong defense-lines, but you can still build them "manually" with sandbags, trenches and mortar-teams, 2cm FlaK and so on  :D).



What do you think?

I'm very satisfied with my concept.
But still I see some problems, maybe someone can help me:

  • The Doctrin "army support troups" seems to be a bit UP in comparision with the two other doctrins.
    For exemple, they somewhat lack good anti-tank capabilities?

  • Tankbattlegroups looks a bit OP, or is it just me?

  • There's still one slot missing in the Fortresstroups-doctrin...
    Some ideas here, Rommel?  ;D



Finally I have to add, that the Ostheer isn't the only faction which will fight against the Red Army (which looks pretty strong right now), hence the DEVs will have to balance it, so also the Panzer Elite will stand a chance against the soviets.
In memoriam MrScruff
The Wehrmacht in the East

Obstheer FTW!
#10502

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

My idea is my concept  ;)
I have my ideas and i made a concept out of it and would say that my concept is quiet good xD
May the force be with you.

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#10680

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

Most elaborated concept of Ostheer I've read there. Nice tier mechanics, securing resources, but I can' t find the technique to have veteran soldiers(or maybe I didn't read enough accurately ;)). But I think, that Ostheer should have Elefant than Ferdinand(to compare with KV- 2) and Jagdtiger than Kingtiger(to compare with ISU- 152) :)

5+/6 :)
#10690

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

No JAGDTIGER for Ostheer, because there was just 5 or 6 Jagdtiger at the battle of Wien 1945.

And Vetsystem: Here i havent at the moment a clear idea ;)
May the force be with you.

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#10691

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

I want to see Bergepanther in the game!!! ::) ;D
I believe in one thing only, the power of the human will. © Joseph Stalin
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#10692

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

Perhaps as reward unit for my Bergepioniere ;)
May the force be with you.

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#10710

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

Hehe, again me.  ;)

I know, you don't like my concept, however, a suggestion:
You should improve your concept on the first page a bit.
Nothing contentwise, but maybe add some wiki-links etc. to make some things clearer.
Also, please add some more explanations.

In memoriam MrScruff
The Wehrmacht in the East

Obstheer FTW!
#10718

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

Kay. What do you think need more informations or wikilinks?

Edit: "I know, you don't like my concept, however, a suggestion:..."
Thats no right ;) One or two ideas of your rework concept are now part of the concept at post number 1.. But i dont like some of your ideas xD Not all, but some of it  ;) Like you. You dont like some of my ideas.

And so we discuss it  ;D
May the force be with you.

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Last edited October 17, 2009 at 9:43 PM by Lord Rommel

#10804

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

Lord wrote:
Kay. What do you think need more informations or wikilinks?

For example, you can link the SdKfz. 251/22 with a pic, like I did. So noone has to google it, to get a first impression how it looks like.
Just similiar like I did... (  :D )
Further, you could improve the structur of the whole concept a bit.

Also, I really don't like the "Volksgrenadiers" in the "Festungsbau-Doctrin" for various reason:

  1. According to your idea of entrenched defence-structures and heavy counter-attack possibilities, the "Ausfalltruppen" fit much better than weak VG.

  2. A doctrin ability should not replace other units.

  3. I think the "Landserzug" should be the standard inf of the Ostheer. Therefore no replace.

  4. I personnally don't like the idea of another cheap'n' weak inf for the Ostheer; "Luftwaffenfeldsoldaten" are enough, though they're in another doctrin. German soldiers have to be strong and kill russian inf units, especially "Conscripts" easily. Quality (Ostheer) vs. Quantity (Red Army), at least in the infantry-sector.
    German inf units shouldn't be too cheap, but offer a certain amount of firepower, so they can fight of the red masses.
    A "Landser" should have around 70 HP and a "heavy Panzergrenadier" around 80-90.



For the "PzKpfw. VI Tiger II": The DEVs won't even change skins on the vCoH units, so I actually doubt they are modify a whole doctrin and change the KöTi with the Jagdtiger.
Please think about that. You can still leave the KöTi in your concept but remove that lines stating "For that, the Jagdtiger will replace the Königstiger in the old Terror-Doctrin."


Oh, and last but not least: Take a quick look here!

I think now it's time to build a shrine for MrScruff and worship him as our new god.

Some more random screens: Partisans, Ju52 3/m (seems like a "glider" for Germany), PzKpfw. II (although still max-file), looks like the 251/22.
In memoriam MrScruff
The Wehrmacht in the East

Obstheer FTW!
#10887

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

Well, I just got around to reading this, and I must say. You did a REALLY great job on this. I don't see anything that I don't like. Good choice of units. Doesn't look like to many units to create from scratch, so that gives the devs a break. Wespe is badass btw! Bravo Rommel!
#10907

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

Thank you very much!

@ the rest:
I made a new veterancy-system. You can read it at the concept ( 1st page ).
May the force be with you.

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#10912

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

Great idea on the veterancy system! (I'll copy'paste it immediately into mine, harrhar!  ;D)

Of course, I suggested to you to put in some links, but now I can see the result:  :o
Please remove some of them! All that blue-shiny-links destroy your concept. I liked it much better the way it was before my "suggestion". Shame on me...

But maybe give me a second chance:
Before:
Quote- Landserzug
( 5 soldiers with Kar98 )

    * Upgrades:

5xG43
OR „PzFaust 60“: 2 soldiers are able to use the Panzerfaust when the the ability Panzerfaust is activated

    * Ability:

Panzerfaust: 2 soldiers use their Panzerfaust
Handgranate: throw a granate.
- MG 42 Team


After:
Quote

  • Landserzug - 5 soldiers with 5x Kar98k.
    > Upgrades:

    • G43 - The squad is upgraded with 5x G43 rifles.

        or
    • PzFaust 60 - 2 soldiers are now able to fire their Panzerfaust when the ability "Panzerfaust" is activated.

    > Abilities:

    • Panzerfaust - 2 soldiers use their Panzerfaust.

    • Handgranate - Unit throws a grenade.



  • MG 42 Team - 3 soldiers with 1x HMG42 and 2x Kar98k

In memoriam MrScruff
The Wehrmacht in the East

Obstheer FTW!

Last edited October 19, 2009 at 5:43 PM by Aouch

#11445

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

I think there r 2 much units. It'll kill those developers.
#11538

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

Doesnt think so ;)
But we will see. My concept is just an idea and anyone said that my concept is the final concept for the Ostheer.
May the force be with you.

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#11541

Re: German Ostheer concept by Lord Rommel

great concept rommel  :D  i see you changed the pak88  ;D

but one thing i want to change too...

- ( Tiger I ( spätes Baulos/ late Version ))
  • Need Doctrin Heeresunterstützungsverbände

- ( Panther Ausf. A )
  • Need Doctrin Panzerkampfverbände

- ( Stug III G Late ( low priced! ))
  • Need Doctrin Festungsverbände


a stug is a more offensive unit then a hetzer... the hetzers are good for an ambush, = defensive unit
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Last edited October 25, 2009 at 10:37 AM by denki_groove