AI Bugs Discussion

Whoa! 5 mines -125 muni  3vg down. 5 mines -125 muni a grenadier squad vaporized. the devteam better take minesweepers of their list of units they never want to see used.
38 vp towards CP 18 vp to vet. Now thats what I call good Defencing!  +1 JoJo.


17 days responce time from cat Fishy's original input to an in game solution. Ya done good Cat.

Last edited May 10, 2012 at 1:55 PM by Otto Halfhand

Why does it seem near the middle of the pictures mines pop out of nowhere? :P. Im honestly just curious. Do the mines "respawn?

Also idk if you accounted for this but you should make sure the Ingineery squads (or w/e is planting the mine) backs away if they come under fire while planting a mine. They will die extremely fast if they are fired at while building mines.

Cat wrote:
Why does it seem near the middle of the pictures mines pop out of nowhere? :P. Im honestly just curious. Do the mines "respawn?

Also idk if you accounted for this but you should make sure the Ingineery squads (or w/e is planting the mine) backs away if they come under fire while planting a mine. They will die extremely fast if they are fired at while building mines.

They don't pop out of nowhere ingy build them, No mines don't respawn on some of tha images radius was to small and ingy made mines always on same place. I know they die fast if building structure or capturing point ;), it is test version so i did not paid much attention will they ingy die or not :P.

Well if you still don't believe here are more :P


Also the main plan is to make them when enemies are not around :) so they can't see it so easly.

Last edited May 10, 2012 at 11:42 PM by jojorabbit

Cat wrote:
Why does it seem near the middle of the pictures mines pop out of nowhere? :P . Im honestly just curious. Do the mines "respawn?

Also idk if you accounted for this but you should make sure the Ingineery squads (or w/e is planting the mine) backs away if they come under fire while planting a mine. They will die extremely fast if they are fired at while building mines.

When you que orders that spend resources, in this case muni's the computer (not AI) spots them in ghost form until they are actually constructed. If you abort the operation in progress you will recoup the resource . otherwise you complete it or ultimately it will be destroyed and you lose your munis. If you are attacked while defencing Stop the action then abort the construction. IDK if 3x damage applies when near an uncompleted defense. (If you aren't actually constructing it).

QuoteSince I cant imagined the AI using the muni HT to supply troops (as it'd get easily killed by follow ability) to save its life, maybe the muni HT should plant mines. If PE has abundant muni ofc. Aftr its done or if it gets shot it can fall back.

It is better to use the follow-on command for muni HT so it stays within command range. It is as you say vulnerable. You can park the muni behind the line and have PGs move to within command range to recharge nades. -Too much micro for me.

I have found Muin HT too big to effectively place the mine where i want it. And it is hard to que commands for multiple mine drops. (same trouble with Ket boobytrap ability). Its not a bug or anything like that. PGs build tellers in TD CT, kets and PGs boobytrap in SE CT I think LWGF should be able to lay mines in LW CT.

When Wehrmacht AI use terror doctrine, could you let them use fire storm and V1 in blob of infantry? Most of the time I only see AI use fire storm on MG nests. And about 280mm rocket barrage of Wehr's defend doctrine, AI just use it in random locations of the map. The Allies AI (except Soviet) rarely use their arty too.
And can the AI use multi-doctrines at the same time? It could be great ;D

Didn't I talk to your brother yesterday? ;)

1 what do you think of the AI employing callin artillery adjacent to enemy base areas?
2  Each AI player is limited to one CT aka doctrine. if there are more than one AI player there can be more than one CT type inplay but it is random. We are changing the personalities to reflect different random CT selections. We could have a AI personality effect the random aspect of the CT choice. I don't particularly like that idea although it would make less work for me. I am very lazy. If we choose to have an AI personality have a preference for a particular CT what percent chance should we allow the AI to effect the random selection?

Sometimes, Soviet and Wehr AI call arty to location that nobody are in there (like call GOW to a farm house or 280mm rocket barrage to a tree) it's weird.
Also, units like mortars, nebels are usually slow to respond to the situations, I realized that they barrage a location that my units was there 1, 2 minutes ago even 4, 5 minutes ago. But nebels work best when they burn my base to ash or mortars kill my squads if they stand for more than 10 secs.  :-X
So Otto I think it's best if the expert (maybe hard too) AI should bombard player's base any chance they have. Adjacent base area bombardment could be great but the AI should use no-warning arties when they do that.

Who is my bro anyway? you mean my last forum's name, mrQ or what? ???

Last edited May 11, 2012 at 5:37 AM by Dann88

Situational Awareness is very important in vCoH Dan. MrQ? Isn't Zemsex your brother too? Never let it be said Otto is to old to have a sense of humor.Some days it is the only thing that keeps me going. Using off map Artillery to  target at enemy base areas is not permitted to Players. It will not be allowed for the AI either. It is a matter of Balance. Targeting areas adjacent to base areas is acceptable. The collateral damage of course could be rather unpleasant. Particularly if it knocks out forward base defences. I ask the question here because as an SP you will be on the receiving end of the attack. All's Fair in Love and War eh? If Nebels, Howitzers, Katyushas, etc are in range of Enemy bases of course they should target them. C'est la Vie. The PE PzIVd actually does more splash damage against HVeh. than it does through direct hits. The problem is to target near misses. BTW you can credit Red Guard for that one. He was always considered ProSov but the PZIVd tactic works. Try it! Oops OT. :D

As regards the Slow reaction time of AI or Player IDF attacks there is an inherent delay that is difficult to overcome. It may be possible to reduce the delaymfor the AI but you won't get rid of it entirely. It is clever that you noted the AI is firing at your old positions. That's Situational Awareness again.  8)

Dann88 wrote:
When Wehrmacht AI use terror doctrine, could you let them use fire storm and V1 in blob of infantry? Most of the time I only see AI use fire storm on MG nests. And about 280mm rocket barrage of Wehr's defend doctrine, AI just use it in random locations of the map. The Allies AI (except Soviet) rarely use their arty too.
And can the AI use multi-doctrines at the same time? It could be great ;D

Currently i woke up and i have no idea what is firestrom and how it works some bombarding i guess.
Using abilities is tactics and i have not touched that area too much only few tweaks cuz lack of time.
Using more then 1CT would be cheating AI. Am not sure that devs will allow AI cheating to that lvl. One CT seems fine to me, we can udjust CT priorities so AI chooses more often some "better CT". AI can be made stronger enough without 3CT :P, you will see i hope in next patch.

If you want cheating AI i can make you script that will pop out 10000 mines on map for AI and AI will get them for free :P, just a joke no offence.

Yes some bombardment abilities have wrong targeting and sometimes they appear in weird positions like you mentioned will see where is problem and correct it if i find it :). Or sometimes targeting is rejected by some reason that idk.

I saw somewhere on suggestions forum that somebody suggested RMC AI, yes there will be RMC AI soon (i hope next patch if i will have enough time to finish it).

QuoteSometimes, Soviet and Wehr AI call arty to location that nobody are in there (like call GOW to a farm house or 280mm rocket barrage to a tree) it's weird.
Also, units like mortars, nebels are usually slow to respond to the situations, I realized that they barrage a location that my units was there 1, 2 minutes ago even 4, 5 minutes ago. But nebels work best when they burn my base to ash or mortars kill my squads if they stand for more than 10 secs. 
So Otto I think it's best if the expert (maybe hard too) AI should bombard player's base any chance they have. Adjacent base area bombardment could be great but the AI should use no-warning arties when they do that.

Yes sometimes AI calls them weird but i guess it is part of game like otto mentioned.
Well when AI gets target and you move from there AI does not cancel it like humans do :).
About bombarding base i often see nebels bombarding my base or similar, abilities like V1 i think they can't be cast on base or they can maybe.

QuoteAbout bombarding base i often see nebels bombarding my base or similar, abilities like V1 i think they can't be cast on base or they can maybe.

JoJo call-in artillery on base areas is Verboten. Even if we can make this happen we shouldn't and won't.

Not about what you guys are talking about but I have a request:

Depending on how much fuel the US AI has, can they just be made to skip to T3? I know the US AI goes in a linear tech pattern (t1,t2,supply yard, t3) so can that be changed? The US AI will be behind Wehr AI as they will have vehicles much faster while the US AI is still fooling around with MGs. I think it would improve gameplay. Maybe US gets t3 based on fuel and amount of infantry enemy has.

Cat wrote:
Not about what you guys are talking about but I have a request:

Depending on how much fuel the US AI has, can they just be made to skip to T3? I know the US AI goes in a linear tech pattern (t1,t2,supply yard, t3) so can that be changed? The US AI will be behind Wehr AI as they will have vehicles much faster while the US AI is still fooling around with MGs. I think it would improve gameplay. Maybe US gets t3 based on fuel and amount of infantry enemy has.

Well it can be made, but can't tell you too much :P, AI will not go T1-T2-T3-T4 any more :) at least some of them won't .

Cat wrote:
Not about what you guys are talking about but I have a request:

Depending on how much fuel the US AI has, can they just be made to skip to T3? I know the US AI goes in a linear tech pattern (t1,t2,supply yard, t3) so can that be changed? The US AI will be behind Wehr AI as they will have vehicles much faster while the US AI is still fooling around with MGs. I think it would improve gameplay. Maybe US gets t3 based on fuel and amount of infantry enemy has.

Actually Cat it is what we are talking about IE AI capabilities. The AI can do just as you suggested given the right personality being loaded. Unfortunately not every AI personality will generate this type of behaviour. And the AI personalities are loaded randomly. I for one am intent on designing proactive AI personalities that can win the game; not reactive personalities. I would like to have an AI that can beat a level16 ladder player in 1v1. It might not be possible but a guy can dream. BTW May 11, 1997 – Deep Blue became the first computer to win a match against a world chess champion, when it defeated Garry Kasparov in six games. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

I don't know if this counts as a bug, but I find it kinda funny when Soviet Expert AI spams almost nothing but Conscript squads and a single Command squad.

I dont think thats a bug. I think it just spams them cause when it runs out of popcap, it can still make conscripts.

Sir wrote:
I dont think thats a bug. I think it just spams them cause when it runs out of popcap, it can still make conscripts.

If you don't have 7pop available you and the AI cannot build or spawn conscripts.

I will look into the expert AI and see if there is another issue involved here.

Sir wrote:
I dont think thats a bug. I think it just spams them cause when it runs out of popcap, it can still make conscripts.

That isn't even what it does though, it just makes Conscripts and Ingenery. Sometimes it will spam 'expert' AT Guns, and sometimes it spams Naval Infantry if it has the right doctrine.

This is a picture of an Expert AI's idea of an attack, and their base afterward:

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/918981986265267047/0BB0E3D00F32BC93B3EA637987F12696F8396A7E/
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/918981986265264393/0D30F5E0E6EEA326274ABA832043BB27CAA286A3/

Highres picture :X
"MrSomeguy" detected ;D

Hey jojo if you have a replay of one of the fast tank bos we tried std vs. hard or expert Upload it to give the folks a taste.  ;)

Good idea, as a compstomper would love to see the new AI.

I would like to show it, but am not sure that other will be able to play replay, IIRC if game version is different there will be sync error in replay.

I have played Tactical AI Mod.



this mod have very improved HQ truck AI, also unit AI. we must reference that.

htt
p://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?254367-Tactical-AI-Mod-v20120513-(for-CoH-2-602)

bingo12345 wrote:
I have played Tactical AI Mod.



this mod have very improved HQ truck AI, also unit AI. we must reference that.

htt
p://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?254367-Tactical-AI-Mod-v20120513-(for-CoH-2-602)

Looking at that, it adds a LOT of really cool new AI for the bots. While I understand this mod emphasizes on PvP, improving PvE would be nice.

SC wrote:

bingo12345 wrote:
I have played Tactical AI Mod.



this mod have very improved HQ truck AI, also unit AI. we must reference that.

htt
p://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?254367-Tactical-AI-Mod-v20120513-(for-CoH-2-602)

Looking at that, it adds a LOT of really cool new AI for the bots. While I understand this mod emphasizes on PvP, improving PvE would be nice.

I actually incorporated many of his AI tweaks when i first started working on the AI for EF, but im pretty sure that jojo has changed or improved upon it (though some of the things azooma said his AI could do didtnt work for some reason, like hellcat using camo). There have been no AI improvements recently due to the fact that we have basically lost all AI coders other than myself, and i have been busy with life and college. However i will be implementing AI for the ostheer, and hopefully AI tweaks once i get out of school in a few weeks on summer break

Every time i play against the soviet team with AI's this is how the matches always ends up.



Soviet team builds 1000000 of tanks

And this is what the axis teams ALWAYS builds



Bunch of random units and infantry that just dies when they try to attack the other team.

Both AI's are on Expert.

So please do something about this, this is not working out with having the AI's like these.

Last edited June 29, 2013 at 6:05 PM by saprize21

So basically make AI have less tanks? Shouldn't be too hard to do

Soviet AI have another problem with tanks , not that it makes too much, but that it makes only T3 tanks - T70;T90;SU76.
I never saw T34 or IS2 from AI.

robotnik wrote:
So basically make AI have less tanks? Shouldn't be too hard to do

Make it more balanced i would say if you look at the 2 pictures, they are from the same game seconds taken from each other.

Soviet AI is poor, even on expert. It's easy to take about 3/4 + of the map control and game over for the AI.

I hate to be that guy, but your doing it wrong.

TheVole wrote:
Soviet AI is poor, even on expert. It's easy to take about 3/4 + of the map control and game over for the AI.

I hate to be that guy, but your doing it wrong.

You cant win a game against 3 AI's spamming tanks with a full frontal map as the one you can see i am playing. If i would have waited longer to gather up an army they would have been inside our base at that hour. That game was over when my team was building infantry soldiers to combat again them.

Well when Jojo left because of his unfortunate accident, he left the AI incomplete and im here to put together the pieces.

Because it was incomplete that is why it is not exactly that good. For example, there no limits for soviet units, which meant that the AI could constantly spam the same unit over and over again.

Better AI will be coming

It seems that when 1 v 1 against them, they will stop attacking after a certain period of attacks, and they keep defensively (even they are controlling half the map.

Is it normal that sometimes in mid or late game, the AI will not attempt to get back the points?

Well, the ostheer AI right now is quite basic, so im hoping to improve it for the next patch. Post any ideas you have or bugs

Im especially looking for suggestions on when the AI should switch between Support and Assault units, because right now it just switches between the 2 upgrades in the HQ randomly.

saprize21 wrote:

TheVole wrote:
Soviet AI is poor, even on expert. It's easy to take about 3/4 + of the map control and game over for the AI.

I hate to be that guy, but your doing it wrong.

You cant win a game against 3 AI's spamming tanks with a full frontal map as the one you can see i am playing. If i would have waited longer to gather up an army they would have been inside our base at that hour. That game was over when my team was building infantry soldiers to combat again them.

The same logic still applies here, if your team controls 3/4 or more of the map the soviets take along time to get out just a T90. By this point you should have panthers or other heavy tanks and you will probably all ready be in their base destroying everything by the time they bring out their first SU-76. Expert Soviets are by far the easiest to beat out of all the factions, as I said before you are going about it wrong.

Ostheer AI seems to love Famos (at least on easy)!



And I think that Soviet AI improved much since the last version. Now they seem to actually coordinate their attacks in groups instead of sending whatever is available at the moment.

LoL. Famo army of doom. Beware of loosing sherman tanks. He will revive them all when wrecks lie around :D

Wasnt famo hardcapped to 2 ? ;D

Cheaters lol!

PE AI likes Munitions Halftracks too XD

ubermensche wrote:
Ostheer AI seems to love Famos (at least on easy)!



And I think that Soviet AI improved much since the last version. Now they seem to actually coordinate their attacks in groups instead of sending whatever is available at the moment.

Yikes...

Yeah, gonna have to put a limit on those. I think the AI considers it to still be a main engineering unit.

robotnik wrote:

ubermensche wrote:
Ostheer AI seems to love Famos (at least on easy)!



And I think that Soviet AI improved much since the last version. Now they seem to actually coordinate their attacks in groups instead of sending whatever is available at the moment.

Yikes...

Yeah, gonna have to put a limit on those. I think the AI considers it to still be a main engineering unit.

I just played a game 4 ostheer vs 4 soviet and again the soviet crushed ostheer cause ostheer only builds balanced things and russians spams tanks. Can any faction crush the soviets?

Hi,
i know i have not been active for a while but i visit forums from time to time, i still need to visit doctors few times a month and i have new job so i sometimes work 10+hours per day and not much is left for free time.

My last touch on OH AI was just a basic ai that builds mostly engineers (in this case famos) there are no limits on anything in most cases they wont build tanks or anything just infantry. I will try to spend some time to see new OH cuz i have not run game for months so i dont know much about it. I will probably be back to old projects AI, SCAR etc but cant promise when. Does EF work with new Steam Version of COH or? I saw some update for COH on steam but did not installed, i re installed windows so i will have to setup all from start :).

About soviet AI it needs a lot of improvements, it mostly builds SU76 if that is that 3rd tank from light tanks, in most cases it never upgrades to heavy tanks that also should be fixed :).
I even have code somewhere on backups that improved RMC ai but idk what state is with RMC will it be removed or??

I saw some images on steam and over the forums devs have done great job on it :).

Cya soon.

jojorabbit wrote:
Hi,
i know i have not been active for a while but i visit forums from time to time, i still need to visit doctors few times a month and i have new job so i sometimes work 10+hours per day and not much is left for free time.

My last touch on OH AI was just a basic ai that builds mostly engineers (in this case famos) there are no limits on anything in most cases they wont build tanks or anything just infantry. I will try to spend some time to see new OH cuz i have not run game for months so i dont know much about it. I will probably be back to old projects AI, SCAR etc but cant promise when. Does EF work with new Steam Version of COH or? I saw some update for COH on steam but did not installed, i re installed windows so i will have to setup all from start :).

About soviet AI it needs a lot of improvements, it mostly builds SU76 if that is that 3rd tank from light tanks, in most cases it never upgrades to heavy tanks that also should be fixed :).
I even have code somewhere on backups that improved RMC ai but idk what state is with RMC will it be removed or??

I saw some images on steam and over the forums devs have done great job on it :).

Cya soon.

Well ever since THQ went bankrupt COH has transferred its servers to Steam. As of May 7th, you need to download the new patch 2.700 to play COH.

Here's the link on how to do it:
http://community.companyofheroes.com/forums/community-news-feed/topics/How-to-switch-to-the-new-Steamworks-Company-of-Heroes

And for now, RMC is gone.

That's pretty much all I can tell you about now. I'm glad to see you back and hope that you're doing better!

jojorabbit wrote:
Hi,
i know i have not been active for a while but i visit forums from time to time, i still need to visit doctors few times a month and i have new job so i sometimes work 10+hours per day and not much is left for free time.

My last touch on OH AI was just a basic ai that builds mostly engineers (in this case famos) there are no limits on anything in most cases they wont build tanks or anything just infantry. I will try to spend some time to see new OH cuz i have not run game for months so i dont know much about it. I will probably be back to old projects AI, SCAR etc but cant promise when. Does EF work with new Steam Version of COH or? I saw some update for COH on steam but did not installed, i re installed windows so i will have to setup all from start :).

About soviet AI it needs a lot of improvements, it mostly builds SU76 if that is that 3rd tank from light tanks, in most cases it never upgrades to heavy tanks that also should be fixed :).
I even have code somewhere on backups that improved RMC ai but idk what state is with RMC will it be removed or??

I saw some images on steam and over the forums devs have done great job on it :).

Cya soon.

Im glad to hear your recovering Jojo :)

I did make some modifications to the ostheer AI so it could at least build more units than just engineers, though its kinda sloppy as can be seen above. Ill continue to work on improving things until you feel like your ready to start again

Also yeah steam COH replaced the old version. Mods work the same with it. That new COH you saw in steam is the new version

jojorabbit wrote:
Hi,
i know i have not been active for a while but i visit forums from time to time, i still need to visit doctors few times a month and i have new job so i sometimes work 10+hours per day and not much is left for free time.

My last touch on OH AI was just a basic ai that builds mostly engineers (in this case famos) there are no limits on anything in most cases they wont build tanks or anything just infantry. I will try to spend some time to see new OH cuz i have not run game for months so i dont know much about it. I will probably be back to old projects AI, SCAR etc but cant promise when. Does EF work with new Steam Version of COH or? I saw some update for COH on steam but did not installed, i re installed windows so i will have to setup all from start :).

About soviet AI it needs a lot of improvements, it mostly builds SU76 if that is that 3rd tank from light tanks, in most cases it never upgrades to heavy tanks that also should be fixed :).
I even have code somewhere on backups that improved RMC ai but idk what state is with RMC will it be removed or??

I saw some images on steam and over the forums devs have done great job on it :).

Cya soon.

Welcome back! :D