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Who Dares, Wins!

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#51623

Who Dares, Wins!

Happy Holidays Eastern Front Fans!

Today we shall unveil a feature of the upcoming 1.30 patch (formerly known as 1.24)...The Royal Marines Commandos.

[center]Marines Commando Squad
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M10 Achilles
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Marine Sappers
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SAS Raiders
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As you might know, every faction has two EF reward units, except for PE and Brits who have one each. You'll also know that EF Team applied some ideas from experts at GameReplays.org to improve balance. However, it would seem that the British need more than just balance changes, they are broken from the roots up.

When I said " need more than just balance changes" I meant that trying to modify the Commonwealth to find balance and, finally, extensive player interest, would require extensive changes; a complete rebuild from their current situation, almost totally replacing Relic's original Army, a policy which EF has always been against.

So, we have a surprise for you!
We give you an "additional" British faction, this time with improved faction design - giving players more of what they enjoy from vanilla sides; while holding true to Commonwealth uniqueness!

The
Royal Marines Commandos Brigade

All Changes to the Commonwealth faction are togglable through a single optional Reward "unit".

Teching Changes

Buildings can now be built at any time; they do not require an officer anymore. Also, you acquire all units from all buildings without the need of an officer.

Truck lock down sectors, but do not gain additional resources unless an upgrade is researched.

HQ truck
Units available: Marines Commando Squad, Lieutenant, Marine Sapper.

New Building added to the tech tree.
SAS Forward Command
- Like an HQ glider but can only land on friendly territory.
- Cost: 220 manpower 45 fuel.
- Units available: Bren Carrier, SAS Raiders, SAS Recon Jeeps, SAS Light Support Jeeps.

Field Support truck
- Cost: 385 manpower 95 fuel.
- Units available: Staghound, Captain, Achilles.

Armour Command Truck
- Cost: 605 manpower 145 fuel.
- Units available: Cromwell Tank, Cromwell Command Tank, Comet Tank.


New Units

Marines Commando Squad:
- Regular infantry section with normal movement but unable to make trenches.
- Cost lowered to 375 manpower.
- Reinforce cost percentage increased.
- Recon element now:
- - Camouflage when in cover like PE Falls.
- - Sharpshooter ability remains.
- - Increased Accuracy.
- - Decreased Cooldown.
- - Increased Capture Rate.
- - Reduces health by 5hp per man
- Recon Element cost increased from 35 munitions to 50 munitions.


Marine Engineers:
- Regular sapper squad with normal movement but unable to build trenches.
- Other defenses become available for construction when the Captain has been deployed.

SAS Raiders:
- Basically 4 Tommies with 3 Thompsons and 1 PIAT.
- Fast capping speed and cost 375 manpower.

SAS Recon Jeeps:
- 2 Jeeps in a squad (1 with .50 cal).
- Cost 450 manpower.
- They have -30% received accuracy as standard.
- Can detect as normal jeeps.

SAS Light Support Jeeps:
- 2 Jeeps in a squad. Armed with recoilless rifles.
- Cost 350 manpower.
- Cannot detect.

Achilles TD:
- M10 with long range, 17pdr gun.
- Cost 380 manpower 75 fuel.

Veterancy Change

The lieutenants bonuses is not stackable.

Starting Resources Change

Commonwealth starting resources lowered from 460 manpower, 15 fuel, 25 munitions to 375 manpower, 15 fuel, 0 munitions.

Remember to vote for EF in ModDB Mod of the Year Award!!
Mors Indecepta

Might controls everything, and without strength you cannot protect anything. Let alone yourself...

Last edited December 7, 2010 at 11:37 PM by blackbishop

#51624

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

Well this is something...so now there will be 4 allied factions? Anyway keep up the good work. 8)
"There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt..."
#51625

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

Will this 'new faction' be an add-on doctrine for the brits, or a complete stand alone?
Either way, nice work :)
#51626

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

This is amazing! Two thumbs way up!
I think, therefore I am...
I learn, therefore I advance...
I destroy, that I may endure.
#51628

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

Tico_1990 wrote:
Will this 'new faction' be an add-on doctrine for the brits, or a complete stand alone?
Either way, nice work :)

Neither of them, will act as reward unit but will change the normal units of the brits, the doctrines aren't going to be changed. You can choose if you use this faction or not like you decide to use or not the comet tank.
Mors Indecepta

Might controls everything, and without strength you cannot protect anything. Let alone yourself...
#51630

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

The new British changes look great. I hope this didn't take production time away from the Soviet tweaks and Ostheer design.
#51632

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

Keromalas wrote:
The new British changes look great. I hope this didn't take production time away from the Soviet tweaks and Ostheer design.

Without animators I don't think we can do a lot of things for the ostheer ::)...
Mors Indecepta

Might controls everything, and without strength you cannot protect anything. Let alone yourself...
#51637

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

All this was known to donators for some time already ;)

Also, will you "dare" (and win) to change vanilla brits in this fashion after some time, if RMC will be accepted among players?

Last edited December 8, 2010 at 4:50 AM by ReckLESS

#51640

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

[quote]
- 2 Jeeps in a squad. Armed with recoilless rifles.
- Cost 350 manpower.
[\quote]
Seems OP too me. No fuel cost?
How will the 2 jeep squad work? Will they be 2 seperate jeeps that are just build together?

Who will bother too build BREN carriers? They will be obsolete when British reach T2.

What will the new fraction spend ammo on?

Last edited December 9, 2010 at 6:40 AM by Paciat

#51641

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

I suggest that if this method of play becomes popular enough, the Brits should just be totally replaced or integrated into this play style.  Do you DARE to?  :P  Slow (un-tactical) move speed that forced LT vet stacking, trenches,  etc etc were always the bane of CoH, and its awesome to see someone actually trying to fix this.
#51642

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

Wow that a really great news and in my eyes it would be even more epic, if you would add them as 4th allied faction, as their nearly no restrictions anymore. I don't know, how big the difference is between total redo a faction and adding a new one...

If you choose Comet as reward unit, how will this interact with the RMC Comet?
#51644

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

Very Nice =)
I hope to see this patch soon ^^
#51645

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

ReckLESS wrote:
All this was known to donators for some time already ;)

Also, will you "dare" (and win) to change vanilla brits in this fashion after some time, if RMC will be accepted among players?

We'll see.

Paciat wrote:
Quote
- 2 Jeeps in a squad. Armed with recoilless rifles.
- Cost 350 manpower.

Seems OP too me. No fuel cost?
How will the 2 jeep squad work? Will they be 2 seperate jeeps that are just build together?

Who will bother too build BREN carriers? They will be obsolete when British reach T2.

What will the new fraction spend ammo on?

The Jeeps are 2 that are issued commands together, like 2 squad members of a squad. However, no 'reinforcements'.

The jeeps die really really easy. They have about (the same?) health as a normal USA jeeps, so heavier vehicles takes them down pretty quickly.

revoluzer wrote:
Wow that a really great news and in my eyes it would be even more epic, if you would add them as 4th allied faction, as their nearly no restrictions anymore. I don't know, how big the difference is between total redo a faction and adding a new one...

If you choose Comet as reward unit, how will this interact with the RMC Comet?

This reward 'unit' overrides all other reward units.

This is because we didn't think they fitted into the play of RMC. For instance, the Roo is juts poo. Both the Staghound and the CCT are in RMC (we left out Stuart instead). And finally the Firefly have had its role replaced by Achilles, not as good but available earlier and cheaper.
Valar Morghulis
Quote
[CoH:EF-Dev]Walki: BULLSHIT
[CoH:EF-Dev]Walki: I'll eat a tree if this won't work now
[CoH:EF-Dev]Rizz: ok
[CoH:EF-Dev]Rizz: I'll hold you to it
<10 minutes later>
[CoH:EF-Dev]Walki: I think I really gotta eat a tree...
[CoH:EF-Dev]Walki: got a decent one?
#51647

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

I can haz Crusader plox :P. Jks looks like i'll have a reason to play Brits again

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Last edited December 8, 2010 at 9:50 AM by Raider217

#51658

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

Nice work. Neat units! :D But no Matilda II, or Crusader tank? :(
#51660

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

yuhuu down with the stupid commonwealth
a new better faction arises and they are sztill brits (i love brits, but i hate coh brits)
"But risk has always been an inescapable part of warfare."
Grand Admiral Thrawn
#51661

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

when can we expect the output of patch ? :)
#51664

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

PanzerMan wrote:
when can we expect the output of patch ? :)


Most likely when it's done;)
#51665

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

Wow, seems to be interesting! Good work!  ;)
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#51684

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

QuoteMarines Commando Squad:
- Regular infantry section with normal movement but unable to make trenches.
- Cost lowered to 375 manpower.
- Reinforce cost percentage increased.
- Recon element now:
- - Camouflage when in cover like PE Falls.
- - Sharpshooter ability remains.
- - Increased Accuracy.
- - Decreased Cooldown.
- - Increased Capture Rate.
- - Reduces health by 5hp per man
- Recon Element cost increased from 35 munitions to 50 munitions.

SAS Raiders:
- Basically 4 Tommies with 3 Thompsons and 1 PIAT.
- Fast capping speed and cost 375 manpower.



Recon Element would be cooler if the rest of the squad were equiped with Stens.

I'm just sayin'.  ;)



Also, why do the SASR use Thompsons?

#51685

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

EightMinds wrote:
Recon Element would be cooler if the rest of the squad were equiped with Stens.

I'm just sayin'.  ;)

However the "coolest" option isnt always the most balanced... unfortunately.

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#51686

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

Imo, EightMinds brings up a good point, why are the SASraiders armed with thompsons, may I suggest changing those to stens? (perhaps even silenced ones, just for the look/feel)
Cheers
#51687

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

Normal commandos use stens.

Whats about the kangorro will it still be that cheap & strong?
I identify as a four-eyed bird man. /s
#51690

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

Sounds great, can't wait to try it out!
Maybe now the british will actually be a challenge to fight against!
"This Goddam forum smells like Volksgrenadiers!"
1st SS Division Leibstandarte SS A. H.
#51695

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

Commandos have Stens, which is why the SAS have Thompsons instead, so there is no mix up and makes SAS more unique within the faction.

No crazy roo, if you choose to play the Marines.

Recoiless rifle jeeps now do have a fuel cost attached to them.
Bren carrier still has a very valid role...ferrying SAS around and being a mobile heavy MG.

Keep in mind, balance wise it isn't fully finalized yet but you get to see how it will work.
R.I.P MrScruff - A genuine Good Guy and great artist
R.I.P Loran Korn - A very brave and talented guy
RAP NEWS http://thejuicemedia.com/?ref=nf
#51698

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

Small question...

does the RMC have the Comet Tank by default or must you tick the Comet in the rewards too?

*likes the Firefly*
#51699

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

EightMinds wrote:
Small question...

does the RMC have the Comet Tank by default or must you tick the Comet in the rewards too?

*likes the Firefly*


Rizz wrote:
And finally the Firefly have had its role replaced by Achilles, not as good but available earlier and cheaper.
Valar Morghulis
Quote
[CoH:EF-Dev]Walki: BULLSHIT
[CoH:EF-Dev]Walki: I'll eat a tree if this won't work now
[CoH:EF-Dev]Rizz: ok
[CoH:EF-Dev]Rizz: I'll hold you to it
<10 minutes later>
[CoH:EF-Dev]Walki: I think I really gotta eat a tree...
[CoH:EF-Dev]Walki: got a decent one?
#51700

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

Oh, right, eheh.  :-X
#51704

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

emmmm...a lot of changes...but it is still not clear for me. Will it be the 4th ally side or "new brits" will change the old faction?
#51705

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

QuoteAll Changes to the Commonwealth faction are togglable through a single optional Reward "unit".
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#51711

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

Awesome. May I suggested that you add the how to play with the old brit to the FAQ the day you launch the pacth.
#51712

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

SavageWorld wrote:
Awesome. May I suggested that you add the how to play with the old brit to the FAQ the day you launch the pacth.

I think would be the other way around...
Mors Indecepta

Might controls everything, and without strength you cannot protect anything. Let alone yourself...
#51717

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

Am confused, are you going to replace the brits, or make a whole new fraction?
The Russians think there sooo tough, wait till the Ostheer comes...

Coh Name: Seeme
#51720

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

New faction (with mostly same or similar units) that is activated depending on whether or not the RMC reward "unit" is selected on. In other words, you will still choose between brits and amis on the army selector but the brit you get will determine if you have RMC turned on or off.

Hopefully the Brits can just be all out replaced in the future with this faction but it's a smart move to make it optional for the moment while the kinks are worked out.
If you get into an argument with me, you're wrong.

Last edited December 9, 2010 at 2:23 AM by GodlikeDennis

#51721

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

At first I was worried about this mod growing into a giant megablob of doing whatever it wants.

Anyway, this is great. SAS and the Royal Marines need attention!

Also, I know this is probalbly nitpicking and a very stupid change, but can the Tommies have their Tommy guns be the M1928 model instead of the M1A1? I've seen photographs of that being used and lend leased more than the M1A1.
"You can close your eyes and plug your ears and be afraid and ignorant of the darker parts of history, but always know that you're the one responsible for allowing those events to happen again and with even greater consequences and not know how to end the nightmare you did upon yourself."

Last edited December 9, 2010 at 2:43 AM by HyperSniper999

#51723

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

A little unfair if they get the luxury guns with 100-round drums when they come out. :P.

I would like that to be an upgrade actually from M1A1 to the M1928-style model, with better accuracy at long range and a 50 round-drum. But lets save the Royal Marine upgrades till later.
#51732

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

awesome guys cant wait to try these new unit addons
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#51735

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

Ouuhh yeah.. finally the brits will be playable for me  ;D Can't wait to play with RMC + a mate choosing the normal RC and celebrate a little D-Day revival match with them (Marine Commandos + Glider Guys  ;D)
Thank you again for this awesome piece of modding.
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Lemberg - Baraque de Fraiture - Smolensk - Heiligenbeil - Nobel Dynamite Works - Lorient - Poltawa
#51741

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

MaxiKing6 wrote:celebrate a little D-Day revival match with them (Marine Commandos + Glider Guys  ;D)


A little Market Garden Operation  :D
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#51744

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

Moonwalker wrote:
MaxiKing6 wrote:celebrate a little D-Day revival match with them (Marine Commandos + Glider Guys  ;D)


A little Market Garden Operation  :D


2 free slots for American Airborne and British Royal Engineers (30th corps) than it would be perfect.
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Lemberg - Baraque de Fraiture - Smolensk - Heiligenbeil - Nobel Dynamite Works - Lorient - Poltawa
#51750

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

Before I start my questions, I'd like to thank and applaud the EF team for attempting to make the British a more popular addition to the game.

Exactly how are the SAS going to be implemented? Are they going to replace the normal Commandos? Are there going to be four per squad? If so, are their stats going to be boosted (to make up for their decreased numbers) to match a Commando squad in terms of damage output and health? Are their anti-tank weapons going to need an upgrade requirement, so we can choose between anti-infantry and anti-tank power?

I kinda have mixed feeling about the SAS being put in the game. While I do have the utmost respect for them, there are just too few of them make them realistically replace Commandos. In a documentary talking about modern-day SAS I watched a few years back, I they said there were only over 100 SAS soldiers in the whole country because the standards of joining them were so high. I don't know if I want to see them used as expendable soldiers in COH.

Moving on from the SAS... I don't know if I like the idea of moving the Bren Carrier to a glider. That means the British will have no mobile HMG during early game, making it much harder for them to fight off HMGs and massed infantry if the German player is using bikes to destroy any mortar emplacements being built.

If the change was made to combat Bren-in-Bren, didn't we already take care of that when we increased the damage it takes when Auto-repairing? Isn't this really unnecessary?

Last edited December 9, 2010 at 12:47 PM by ChocoboKnight88

#51753

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

SAS won't replace commandos or anything. See these changes as a new faction instead of a reward unit.
Valar Morghulis
Quote
[CoH:EF-Dev]Walki: BULLSHIT
[CoH:EF-Dev]Walki: I'll eat a tree if this won't work now
[CoH:EF-Dev]Rizz: ok
[CoH:EF-Dev]Rizz: I'll hold you to it
<10 minutes later>
[CoH:EF-Dev]Walki: I think I really gotta eat a tree...
[CoH:EF-Dev]Walki: got a decent one?
#51755

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

I see no problem with the bren being moved. Even now in EF without BiB being horrendously OP, it's still a bitch to deal with early game. Remember that Brits will have a much easier time fighting MGs now that their infantry can effectively flank. They'll probably be even better at it than Americans to be honest since a tommy squad could probably take on a volk squad and MG crew if the suppressed tommy squad helped out a bit as well. Brits will also have more map control now and the Wehr player won't be able to move so far up with his MGs without opening himself up to a flank. Recon sections are much more attractive and might be able to take on an MG from the front with the use of snipe. They still have heroic charge from the LT too.

I'll have to see SAS performance ingame before I judge them.
If you get into an argument with me, you're wrong.

Last edited December 9, 2010 at 2:10 PM by GodlikeDennis

#51760

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

MaxiKing6 wrote:
Ouuhh yeah.. finally the brits will be playable for me  ;D Can't wait to play with RMC + a mate choosing the normal RC and celebrate a little D-Day revival match with them (Marine Commandos + Glider Guys  ;D)
Thank you again for this awesome piece of modding.

The changes that are shown in this list will be done. That means, the doctrines still the same only the normal units were changed(plus vet stacking, buffed speed); you can play by yourself RMC + Commandos any day :).
Mors Indecepta

Might controls everything, and without strength you cannot protect anything. Let alone yourself...
#51763

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

I WANT FINLAND =D
#51765

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

blackbishop wrote:
MaxiKing6 wrote:
Ouuhh yeah.. finally the brits will be playable for me  ;D Can't wait to play with RMC + a mate choosing the normal RC and celebrate a little D-Day revival match with them (Marine Commandos + Glider Guys  ;D)
Thank you again for this awesome piece of modding.

The changes that are shown in this list will be done. That means, the doctrines still the same only the normal units were changed(plus vet stacking, buffed speed); you can play by yourself RMC + Commandos any day :).


Good.. After explaining it a dozen times to all of us, I still don't get it, but doesn't matter. I'll see how it works when the patch is out. By the way: When does it come? And I don't want any "when it's done" please.

EtzkuFIN wrote:
I WANT FINLAND =D


Then do them by yourself. Anyway this is OT.
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Lemberg - Baraque de Fraiture - Smolensk - Heiligenbeil - Nobel Dynamite Works - Lorient - Poltawa
#51771

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

If you want to use RMC you need to go to reward section and activate RMC. Then go to the match and select brits as usual. After the loading screen you will see the difference.

The release date is still unknown due to the balance part.
Mors Indecepta

Might controls everything, and without strength you cannot protect anything. Let alone yourself...
#51773

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

Okay thank you. Now I got it.  ;D
Forum post image
Lemberg - Baraque de Fraiture - Smolensk - Heiligenbeil - Nobel Dynamite Works - Lorient - Poltawa
#51780

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

Balance wise, you won't really need the bren carrier early on because
a)Troops move at normal speed and therefore flanking is quite legit
b) Recon squad is no longer a handicaped squad compared to other tommies
c)You get access to alot of sexy new jeeps and the bren carrier which can be filled with SAS for some nice flanking and raiding, only slightly later at more appropriate time.
d)You can get engineers with normal move and piats from the 'get go' to also help against early cars etc.

SAS are not going to be a spamable unit to replace commandos. They're just there to help promote the use of small fast moving flanking groups. The whole SAS command is effectively the Tier2 missing from the original brits. Also a useful assault unit if you don't go for commandos.
R.I.P MrScruff - A genuine Good Guy and great artist
R.I.P Loran Korn - A very brave and talented guy
RAP NEWS http://thejuicemedia.com/?ref=nf

Last edited December 9, 2010 at 7:19 PM by Zerstörer

#51783

Re: Who Dares, Wins!

Somehow I feel that the new brits will be overpowerd.
I identify as a four-eyed bird man. /s