Mod plan: COH Chinese battlefield

Nearly every video games about WW2 are featured on the European theater, sometime maybe the Pacific theater, but nearly none of them mention about the Chinese battlefield. In the Eight Years War of Resistance (as WW2 called in China) the Chinese suffered the second most total causality next to only the Soviet Union. Most of the major engagements in Asia were fought in China, where the Chinese armies hold off the bulk of Japanese Army, which factored the Allies victory in the Pacific. Yet the sacrifice of China had not been remembered. I am thinking of a mod that include both the National Revolutionary Army of China and the Imperial Japanese Army in 1944, the year that the original COH setting based on.

While I and thankfully dedicated volunteers from the Eastern Front forum are enthusiastically helping for the mod, it is still in the very early development (the second week) and we welcome suggestions/ joining of designers of all kind.

Here are the faction concept we came up with

National Revolutionary Army:

Concept: NRA is a defensive-oriented force. Its army are numerous and easily to recruit (not unlike the Soviets in EF mod), but very technological inferior army. Infantry would be the mainstay of the NRA, and yes I am also talking about in anti-tank warfare. While common infantry would be very cheap and easy to replace, a reference to practice of forcibly conscription with minimal training, specialized squads such as gun crews would suffer an extremely small size and expansive to replace, in reference to heavy loss of trained troops in the beginning of the war

NRA armors are rare and light-oriented. They were either foreign made tanks with relatively hight quality but expansive, or local improvised armor vehicle which are relatively cheap. They should only be deployed against infantry as those prewar/ local crude made/ light vehicles would definitely be devastated against Axis armors. Tank could only be called in as doctrinal units and would not be on par with European. However the NRA is not without large mobile force. Old day units such as cavalry would made an appearance

In reference to the Sino-German cooperation before 1941 and late war American aid, early German and American weapons would be prominent in NRA arsenal

Chinese cannot receive vet in battlefield, but rather every units come with a random vet when produce. This reflect the mixed quality of NRA personnel

Building/ unit planning:
The concept of NRA building is that most buildings are only research building and can not train troops. Unit recruitment is the job of Recruit Officer squad. Specific buildings can unlock more unit for him to recruit. They can be multiply produce and allow you to wage war everywhere, reflecting the large scale guerrilla warfare employ by the Chinese. Like the German the Chinese need to individually upgrade weapon for their unit, a reference to the logistic problem suffered throughout the war

Resistance Headquarter

Peasants
- 10 men, builders, unarmed
- can be upgrade into Militia which armed with random weapons

Recruit Officers - The primary unit builder for the NRA. Specific buildings can unlock more unit for him to recruit. They can be multiply produce and allow you to wage war everywhere, reflecting the large scale guerrilla warfare employ by the Chinese
- 3 men, armed with 1 Mauser C96 and 2 Hanyang 88
- need to deploy into "Recruit Post" or garrison building for recruitment and reinforce troops

Recruit Post - armed with 1 Mauser C96 and 2 Hanyang 88, can reinforce nearby troops

Footman - Forced conscripted peasants who receive minimal training and very low morale, due to harsh treatment in recruitment and heavily corruption within the Army. They would be your mainstay
- 8 men, armed with Hanyang 88s
- can be upgunned into Chiang Kai-Shek rifle which allow better accuracy and range
- can upgrade Type Gong grenade (copy of the German M24 grenade) which deal less damage than its German counterpart

Support team (unlocked with arsenal) - The MG team of China. To reflect the lack of trained soldiers in NRA they are made up by merely 2 men
- 2 men, armed with ZB26 LMG and Hanyang 88
- can be upgraded into Type 24 HMG for significantly increased suppression and range, but would now require deploy time as they now become HMG team
- can dig in for additional protection

Dare-to-die troop (unlocked with arsenal) - The literal translation of 敢死隊. They were formed by the bravest and were the assault troop of NRA. Their non-cost concentrated charge grenade made them one of the few AT unit for NRA
- 6 men, armed with Hanyang 88 and concentrated charge grenade
- can be upgunned into Astro 903 machine pistol

Cavalry (unlocked with stable) - For a country that can hardly support armored warfare, cavalry is the only choose for the NRA to employ mobile warfare
- 6 men, armed with Hanyang 88 carbines
- have the ability to charge into enemy infantry
- unsuppressable but low health

Combat Medic (unlocked with Field hospital) -
- 1 man with Mauser C96, can heal nearby troop

Arsenal
- tech: AP bullets - Support team can now use AP bullet when acquired Type 24 HMG
- tech: Large magazine clip - Allow Dare-to-die troop and Whampoa cadet to deal more damage
- tech: Firearm workshop - Unit ability cost less
- tech: Wire cutter - Allow peasants/ militias to cut wire

Stable
- tech: Mongolian horse - cavalry have greater speed and health
- tech: Horse for Logistic - resource rate increase

Workshop - (have technicians for repairing) This is the only building that would directly produce units

Armored car - While China can't produce tanks, she did able to improvise existing vehicles into low-quality armor car. This practice was utilized even by the early warlords
- Armed with Type 24 HMG, effective in wiping out non-AT infantry
- Can be destroy by small arm fire like Bren carrier
- Can be upgrade into Heavy armor car which was with bullet-proof armor and a 37mm field gun to against infantry

Pak-36 -
- 37mm Anti-tank gun manned by 2 men
- able to cloak and have high rate of fire
- able to demobilize enemy vehicle

Type 31 60mm mortar
- Similar to mortar of other factors, but with 2 men and deal less damage

tech: animal power - all artillery pieces are now towed/ carry by an ox/ horse to increase mobility

Field hospital - (have medics for packing the wounds)
- tech: Traditional medicine - combine medic heal rate and range increase

Defensive structure: (Those spawn nearby your base at the beginning of a skirmish game)

Solothurn 20mm autocannon - can use for air/ land defense, but manned by mere 2 men



NRA factions (doctrines)

Communist faction - Represented by the 8th Route Army and the New 4th Army, the Chinese Communist Party was master in guerrilla warfare and underground operation.

Left: United Front

- Manchurian comrade - Send in a squad of Northeast Anti-Japanese United Army guerrilla cavalry, a 6 men dragoon squad that can dismount in cloak with their horse as cover (defence bonus). Can charge against enemy. Armed with captured Type 44 carbine, can be upgrade with Automatic Mauser C96s

- Dong River column - Send in a squad of Dong River guerrilla squad, a 2 men squad equipped with sniper rifle and Mauser C96 and can demolish enemy buildings. They can swim across river. They can also detect and disarm mine

- Hundred Regiments Offensive - Cloak a selected area of troop

Right: Underground network

- Intelligence gathering - Reveal enemy map for a while

- Supply sabotage - Once activated all enemy supply rate ground to zero

- Tunnel warfare - Unlock tunnel, a cloaked buildings that can allow troops to travel immediately across map. It have low health and only infantry can enter the tunnel

Warlord Faction - Represented by Guangxi clique, one of the most powerful regional warlords nominally loyal to the Central government. This faction emphasize on economy building and defence

Left - Zapai Army

- Traps awareness – All infantry can detect and disarm landmines when static

- Dadao on the Devil's head! - send in a 8 men Dadao Troop, armed with close attack dadao (Chinese broad sword) and Mauser C96s. Will not be suppress but low health, very cheap, unable to garrison. Can charge against enemy to force retreat them

- Trade time with space - All infantry units have the ability to build basic defense

Right - Regional administration

- Min Tuan System - Manpower production boost

- Recruit hunt / Force conscription - Once activated, troops can be reinforced from civilian building

- Local knowledge - Once activated, troops have additional defensive and speed bonus in friendly territory

Central faction - The most powerful political faction within China. This group was formed by professional officers from the Whampoa Military Academy (The first and most important official military academy of China) and was trusted by Chiang Kai-Shek himself. They were entrusted with the best military resource China had, include foreign tank and air support from American 14th Air Force

Left - Dixi (direct descent) Army

- Whampoa cadet - call in the Whampoa cadet squad, a 4 men squad equipped with German supplied K-98k & Model 24 grenades, a reference to the German equipped division of the NRA. They can be upgunned into Thompson SMG or MG-34. As they are led by a professional officer they can provide bonus to nearby troops

- Gong Bing - Send in a two men engineering specialist squad for costructing Solothurn 20mm autocannon and quicker building of other defence structures. They can also advance repair staffs. Armed with Mauser C96s. Can detect and disarm landmine

- Return my land! - When activated all infantry benefit from incresed capturing rate and spirit

Right: Foreign aid

- Lend Lease - once activate munition and fuel would significantly boost

- Steel Tigers – call in a light tank column which includes M3 Stuart, Panzer 1 and T26. As the NRA is few in tanks more resources are allowed for training a smaller armor unit. Therefore these tank are always in the hightest vet. Additionally all tanks could boost nearby infantry and cavalry as the Chinese soldiers rarely see tanks before:
1. Vicker Mark E Type A (Infantry support) – strong in dealing with infantry like the T-90. Upgrade: Type B turret: replace its dual-MG turret into a 47mm gun turret
2. M3 Stuart (Light AT) – Unlike its British counterpart, these Stuarts were run by specialized trained crews which allow better AT capacity. Ability: treadbreaker
3. T-26 (Command & Support) – Come with a tank commander which benefit the tank with better sight. It can boost nearby tank.. Ability: mark target. Upgrade:
a. Replace its 45mm turret with KhT-133 flamethrower,
b. Install a top Type 24 HMG to counter air threat but is better to use on infantry

- American air support - Request the USAAF 14th Air Force to provide close Air support in designated area. Additionally it can deny enemy from using air power

Imperial Japanese Army

Concept: The IJA is an offensive-oriented, small but relatively more fanatic fighting force. They would make use of melee combat, suppression breaking ability and suicidal measure (such as that IJA crews would destroy their crew before dying.), but their weapon quality is not remarkable. Its soldiers are expansive and hard to replace, reflecting their difficulty to transport troop though the hostile Chinese mainland. The Japanese have no healing facility, reflecting their ignorance to modern field medical system.

The IJA armors are very weak. Their tanks are even inferior to the Chinese/ British Struats, but its advantage over the Chinese is that they are able to manufacture. They also operate a range of armored vehicle to counter the Allies

The Japanese tend to use collaborationist soldiers for their fighting and labor. Those units would be easier to replace than their regular

Building Concept: The Japanese have no HQ and initiate defence to reflect their offensive role in China. Instead they are giving a relative strong beginning units include construction units (2 squads of Bohei bontais and one force labors) While the lack of HQ meant their initial manpower would suffer serious shortage, the IJA can gain more manpower output from construction of each of their building. (but the IJA must still produce lower manpower compare to other countries) Any of the IJA building allow player to call in doctrinal units or ability. The Japanese would not possess start game MG bunker like the other faction

Force labors – The IJA make extensive use of POW and local populace for their labor
- 5 men squad, with one Nambu Type 14-weiding officer and four unarmed POW laborer
- When the officer is dead all laborers would join your rank, but is very easily to be killed. Those upraised laborers attack by their tools, which is also very low damage. However they can assist in building basic defense
- Special ability: Exploitation – The officer would execute a laborer to speed up the current building project
- Can not repair vehicle

Security bunker – Defense & production building which armed with a non-rotation limit Type 98 20mm AAA, the first building that’s allow to construct

- tech: Counter-bandit reserve – allow construction of units in this building

Collaborationist - Chinese or Japanese colonial subject that were either conscripted or volunteered to served in the IJA, suffered very low morale due to themselves being labeled as national traitors. Historically they were employed in rear area security rather than front-line duty
- 6 men squad arm with Type 38s
- Low morale
- Ability: Bicycle Blitzkrieg – Use bicycle for quicker movement, but would be exposed to attack

Type 97 motorcycle
- armed with a Type 97 LMG
Can be upgrade into Type 94 Te-Ke,
- A tankette armed with a Type-91 MG
- Can be damage by small-arm fire

- tech: Labor conscription - Force labor squad could be increase to 8 men
- tech: Disciplinary supervisor – Replace one Collaborationist member into a Japanese officer to increase morale

Regional HQ - Train "formal" Japanese regulars not unlike the Krieg barrack

Bohei bontai - The regular Japanese infantry
- 5 men squad armed with Type 38s
- High morale
- Have 2 upgrade: Type 89 Grenade Discharger - Bohei bontais gain new ability to bombard designated target with Type 89 Grenade Discharger for an amount of mumition/ Type 11 LMG

Koohei bontai
- 3 men squad armed with Type-100 Flamethrower and Type 38s
- Can build basic defense and repair staff
- Ability: Explosive – Throw an explosive pack against enemy building and tank
- Can detect and disarm mines

Type 92 Infantry gun – A kind of light howitzer that replace the role of mortar
- 3 men armed with Nambu Type 14
- Benefit from greater range and damage, but of course slower
- Can utilize rapid fire like the soviet firebase and smoke shell
- The crew would damage the gun to prevent being take over before died

Taisensha botai – The only Japanese AT weapon
- 2 men squad armed with the Type 97 20 mm AT rifle and Type 94 pistol (different from the Nambu)
- No need to redeploy
- Can be upgrade into a deployable Type 94 37 mm quick-fire AT gun, similar to other deployable AT gun unit, but weaker and have a quicker fire rate

- tech: AT gun modification – Allow Type 97 AT rifle to perform automatic fire, make it able to pin enemy infantry and button enemy vehicle. The Type 97 AT gun would also be abled to use rapid-fire ability
- tech: 7.7mm caliber – replace Type 38s ad Type 11s of the Koohei and Imperial troops into better damaging Type 99s rifles and LMGs

Vehicle Assembly

Type-89 I-Go “Koo”
- Medium tank that armed with a 57mm short barrel gun to against enemy infantry and structures

Shinhoto Type-97 Chi-Ho
- Armed with a long barrel 47mm gun to fight against enemy tank, although obviously perform badly in this role

Type 94 6-Wheeled truck
- Able to transport and reinforce infantry
- Infantry garrisoned can attack outside
- Offer very little protection against incoming fire

- tech: Type-89 I-Go “Otsu” – Outfit the Type-89 I-Go with better armors and a reliable Mitsubishi A6120VD 120 hp diesel engine

Kempeitai station – A place for torturing and interrogate in the hand of Japanese secret police. Come with several Kempeis which have the same function as medic in other faction but they take only the enemy wounds for XP

Kempei botai – Military Police of the IJA
- Can uncloak their large sight area of enemy unit
- Boost nearby troop
- 3 men armed with Type 94 pistol (different from the Nambu)

- tech: Informants – Once Kempei botai enter a building, it could install informant into it that permanently reveal the surrounding area, even cloaked units. Enemy units would not suspect such building but the informant would be eliminated once the building is garrisoned
- tech: Death labor – Each wounds we received would produce also manpower
- tech: Interrogation – Allow an ability which once activate, would reveal all enemy cloaked units. Need long cool down time


IJA Units (doctrines)

Unit Three Alls – Emphasize on defense and counter- insurgency. The name is a reference to the Three Alls policy (Kill all, burn all, loot all) utilized by the Japanese to counter communist guerrilla threat

Left side: Solid Wall

- Korean volunteer: replace the original collaborationist squad with this 6 men Korean volunteer squad, armed with Type 38s. They can detect cloaked units and have better morale and stronger than the Collaborationist squad, in reference to most of the IJA Korea volunteers were used as police in Manchuria. Like Collaborationist they can utilize bicycle blitzkrieg

- Bandit watchmen – allow construction of Type 92 HMG armed guard tower. Their HMG have rotation limit and can be damaged by even bullets. Nevertheless they can pi down blob of infantry Ability – Spotlight – to uncloak a small designated area in a short period of time

- Tank cracker – call in a 75mm Type 90 field gun. Its towed by six horses and is almost the only AT weapon that can defeat M4 Shaman frontally in IJA and have the range of Flak 88. Have all ability of Type 92 Infantry gun include its rapid firing ability where it would fire 5 shell like a howitzer to bombard an area

Right side: Clear Field

- Collaborationist conscription: Hard laborers, collaborationist, and Korean volunteers are much cheaper and have one additional member

- Loot: Infantry can now loot enemy fallen for munitions. To garrison civilian building would also reward munition/ fuel/XP for once

- Three All Policy: If our resource points are captured by the enemy, it would not produce anything unless repaired. Quite similar to Panzer Elite’s Scorched earth but in larger effect

Unit Imperial Asia – Emphasize on offensive especially in term of spiritual enhancement. The name is a reference to the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere, the Japanese imperialistic goal to seize the whole of Asia

Left side: Spiritual enlightenment

- Tennooheika banzai!: Allow Bohei bontais to activate a suppression-breaking bayonet charge against the enemy for a while. In this period the squad would spirit faster but can not open fire. The charge also make the squad highly expose to enemy fire

- Gyokusai - Bohei bontais, Taiwanese volunteer and Koohei are bestowed honorary explosives, enable them to detonate themselves with the enemy at will. Such explosives can damage tanks. Heavily wounded soldier would also blow themselves up when the enemy approach

- Bushido embodiment: Sent in a horse-riding three men Type 14 & katana (Shin guntō) wielding officer squad. They can boost nearby infantry like Kempei botai but in greater effect and cannot be suppressed. Ability: Banzai charge - allow them to activate a katana charge for a while where their katana would be devastating against enemy infantry, but they would be easier to be damaged by enemy fire

Right side: Emperor Wrath

- Taiwanese volunteer: send in a 4 men Taiwanese aboriginal special operative squad. Essentially a more powerful version of the Bohei bontai, they armed with Type 38s/Type 99s (They are affected by the Type 99 upgrade) but can be upgraded into Type 100 SMGs. Additionally they can utilize Type 89 grenade discharger. They can cloak without speed penalty and is the only unit with self-healing ability. The unit is a reference to the Takasago Volunteers, Taiwanese ethicality who was utilized as special force by the IJA and was famous for their jungle survival skill. While no Takasago forces saw combat in China (as far as I know), there were a lot of Taiwanese serviced there

- Divine fire: order a Mitsubishi Ki-21 heavy bomber to clear a path with heavy bombardment. It would drop 5 bombs along a line which damage is equal to a Goliath (or higher) Not to mention it need a long cool down time for balance reason
- (Not finished yet, please make suggestion)

Unit Black Sun – A reference to the Unit 731, an IJA biological warfare crop that were notorious for their experiments on living subjects. As suggested this Unit would utilize biological/ chemical warfare

Left side: Biological warfare

- Gas shells: Type 92 Infantry gun gained the ability to launch gas shell, which would unleash a poisonous cloud injury everyone who come close by. More effective than fire to deal with garrison

- Infrastructure contamination: Once activated deny enemy from recruiting and reinforcement for a while

- Germ bombardment: Order a Mitsubishi Ki-21 heavy bomber to drop infected insects to a huge designated area. Those who are in the area would slowly die off unless immediate medical attention (First aid kit/ Combat medic) is provided. Useless against garrisoned enemy

Right side: Medical research

- Gas mask: Once activated all infantry would not be harmed by any biological attack for a while

- Human experimentation: For each wounds that the Kempais caught, your biological attack would have their damage increase by 0.05%

- (Not finished yet, please make suggestion)

Last edited July 15, 2010 at 11:02 PM by moknin

I like it, nice thinking ;)

To bad the mean ol' devs dont like it.

Seeme wrote:
I like it, nice thinking ;)

To bad the mean ol' devs dont like it.

Thats fine its not supposed to be part of the EF mod
Thats why I put it into off topic
Folks who want to add Japanese faction in General Suggestion are welcome to suggest here

We should make our own mod then!

Seeme wrote:
We should make our own mod then!

Ha. but the thing is I know nothing about modding BUT giving ideas

Corsix mod studio is actually pretty easy to use on a base level , I've had problems getting my mods to run but other than that its not too hard.

I would be willing to help out if someone wanted to start such a mod.

Last edited June 14, 2010 at 6:34 PM by Akalonor

Akalonor wrote:
Corsix mod studio is actually pretty easy to use on a base level , I've had problems getting my mods to run but other than that its not too hard.

I would be willing to help out if someone wanted to start such a mod.

Thanks very much!
I would firstly like to kow what do you use for creating model/ skin?

I can create skins through Corsaix and I can set up the mod through that aswell , but I don't think I have anything that would work with Coh to model ( I have Milkshape and Gamestudio)

I dont know a thing, but I am willing to learn it. I would love to help.

Yeah, me too ;D. I know C/C++/C#, but nothing about modding, especially CoH modding :-X.

Corsix is your free friend :D

Just send me a link ;)

http://www.moddb.com/mods/company-of-heroes-modern-combat/downloads/company-of-heroes-modding-setup
here , this includes everything we need , Its from ModDB so I know its safe ;)

I recommend pressing F1 once your in Corsix , that takes you to the main website page where you can go through the Tutorials , I for one need help with my small mod because it won't run no matter what I do -.-

Last edited June 15, 2010 at 2:18 AM by Akalonor

Seeme wrote:
Just send me a link ;)

Here you are
http://www.corsix.org/cdms/

There is also a good site about COH modding as well
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=211262

For the folks who would like to work on skin/ model. Here are some photo for the Chinese Army

The MG man is quiet ideal for Support team






Automatic Mauser C96, perferably attach with the gun butt


Mauser C96

It looks like China use to "play" with foreign toys :P...

T-26

We have our "Stuart/Hotchkiss" tank ;D. And is as customizable as a lego figure ;).

Vickers 6-Ton

It could have twin mg as the picture above or a short barreled 47mm cannon and single mg.

It's looks like they don't have tanks at all ???. They just used L&L M18 Hellcats, M4 Shermans and M3 Stuarts xD.

EDIT: Well i was reading on wikipedia, and I saw something interesting, they used the L3/33 "light tank", and has the superb "1 × 6.5 mm machine gun" as primary weapon, what a piece of junk; but what I like about it, is the fact that this tankette could be upgraded to "L3 Lf" Lancia fiamme/flamethrower... this variant doesn't saw action on china, but nobody should care :D.



Source

Last edited June 15, 2010 at 5:08 AM by blackbishop

We should set up a site so we can get everything straightened out.
also , to start out I think we should just replace an existing faction.
What are your opinions on this ?

Last edited June 15, 2010 at 6:15 AM by Akalonor

blackbishop wrote:
It looks like China use to "play" with foreign toys :P...

T-26

We have our "Stuart/Hotchkiss" tank ;D. And is as customizable as a lego figure ;).

Vickers 6-Ton

It could have twin mg as the picture above or a short barreled 47mm cannon and single mg.

It's looks like they don't have tanks at all ???. They just used L&L M18 Hellcats, M4 Shermans and M3 Stuarts xD.

EDIT: Well i was reading on wikipedia, and I saw something interesting, they used the L3/33 "light tank", and has the superb "1 × 6.5 mm machine gun" as primary weapon, what a piece of junk; but what I like about it, is the fact that this tankette could be upgraded to "L3 Lf" Lancia fiamme/flamethrower... this variant doesn't saw action on china, but nobody should care :D.



Source

Haha Yes China have no tank
and thats exactly WHAT so unique about China
and thats why infantry should alway be the mainstay of Chinese Army

Actually one of my weird wish is to see what will happen if those junks come face to face with Tiger ;D ;D ;D

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Akalonor wrote:
We should set up a site so we can get everything straightened out.
also , to start out I think we should just replace an existing faction.
What are your opinions on this ?

My original plan is to replace British......
BEFORE I have found this article
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=239440

Last edited June 15, 2010 at 6:31 AM by moknin

Brilliant! , Now all I need to do Is learn how to use the damn Object editor correctly and get my Corsix modstudio to actually play my mods.

When I open the object editor it keep saying "Failed to load the pipeline.ini file. Do a sync from perforce."

Can somebody help?

I remember that you have to replace your old pipline with a new one for the editors , It should have been included with the download.

Now I remember, animals would be hard to animate, are you sure that you want to use animals :-S. But I remember read somewhere in this forum about a german soldier riding a donkey...

I retract about using that italian light tank, I was reading about the T-26 and it could take its role; it had been upgraded at the time was used and I list some of them; some could be granted by doctrine though.

Abilities:
- AP Shells.
- Flank Speed.
- Mark Target(like schwimmwagen).

Upgrades:
- Anti-aircraft MG(Top MG).
- KhT-133 flamethrower(replaces main turret).
- TOP-1/TOS telescopic(like Spotting Scope in hetzer, improved optics, it could be on two levels first TOP-1 and then TOS).
- Armor upgrade(like armor skirts more hp, it could be implemented on vet1 perhaps).

Another upgrades:
- 76.2 mm KT tank gun mod/artillery tank(replaces main turret).
- KMT-26 mine roller.
- 71-TK-1 radio station(for US naval artillery call-ins).

China just used the "T-26 model 1933" but with most of these upgrades could make it a better support tank.

China use the type F vickers(47 mm gun+7.7 mm Vickers MG+Marconi Type G2A radio), but I don't think it would be necessary to include the vickers 6-tons.

I also think that some infantry could use "Button enemy vehicle".

What about doctrine call-ins of M4A1(76mm) shermans instead of M3 Stuart. You could use stuarts as T2 anti-infantry unit along with T-26 and Tier 3 with L&L vehicles and elite infantry, i.e. the M4 sherman and the M18 Hellcat.

Buildings:
- Company Headquarter.
- Recruit Post (like a bunker perhaps ???).
- Arsenal.
- Stable.
- Workshop.
- Field hospital.

T0:
- Peasants/Militia.
- Recruit Officers.

T1:
- Footman.
- CCKW truck.
- Dodge GMC3/4(Bren like armor).
- Type 24 HMG Support Team.

T2:
- Stuart/T-26.
- Type 31 60mm mortar.
- Pak 36.

T3:
- Combat Medic.
- Dare-to-die troops.
- M4 Sherman(after some L&L upgrade, "ultimate non-doctrinal chinese AI").
- M18 Hellcat(after some L&L upgrade, "ultimate non-doctrinal chinese AT").

EDIT: Perhaps there's only place for one light tank, but I prefer the T-26 over the M3 Stuart, it is more versatile.

Last edited June 18, 2010 at 8:12 PM by blackbishop

I like whole idea, love idea of chinese doctrines. But I don't like support squads. 2 men? ne sniper shot and than they can't use weapon ( at and mortar). 3 men is required minimum.
Can you make some bazooka squads? I think US gave lot of weapons to china, so bazooka should be included.

Nice idea! Just a suggestion, Whampoa cadet, Instead of upgrading to the Thompson, i'd say MP18, Light tank, i think the PanzerI was supplied to china? [It'd have MG's, redcing Chinese AT Capablity] or the Carden-Loyd, the FT17.

Can't wait to see a Japanese-Chinese mod, if it ever happens.

Newbie. wrote:
Nice idea! Just a suggestion, Whampoa cadet, Instead of upgrading to the Thompson, i'd say MP18, Light tank, i think the PanzerI was supplied to china? [It'd have MG's, redcing Chinese AT Capablity] or the Carden-Loyd, the FT17.

Can't wait to see a Japanese-Chinese mod, if it ever happens.

Yeah, the Panzer I was used by China also, there's missing a Bazooka squad...  I don't know a s...t about chinese history so i don't know how to represent the infantry.

Where would you put the Panzer I?? I would say t2; but I think that Dodge GMC 3/4(or Dodge GMC M31 I don't know exactly which one is) fit that role.

Last edited June 18, 2010 at 8:44 PM by blackbishop

Moknin set up a facebook site,- chinese battlefield mod - you can comment on there and 'friend' CBM to get involved.

I don't use facebook that much but I'll take your word ;D.

I despise facebook but had to make an exception for this -.-

I never ever used facebook and now that I al of a suddend have to! Cant we set up spme easier page? A mod one?

Do you use 3d max for the models and animations ??

seeme , if you can find a completely free site than I'm fine with it.
If you Recommend Myspace I will scream , because my aunt that visited used Myspace all the time and screwed my Computer up , it takes around 5-10 minutes to boot up.and its only 4 months old :P
From what I've seen I think Moknin uses 3d Max , his Pistol models are atleast.

How did easternfront get its own page?

They pay for it I think ,

heh, i'll think i'll have a try, main thing i can do is suggestions as my vCOH Pack isn't with me atm. [:(] I'll send  a add.

blackbishop wrote:
Do you use 3d max for the models and animations ??

I use 3D max for the models but I dont know how to make animation nor skin them
believe me, include today its my fourth day to use the 3d max......

Heres are the first two model I made:


"Box cannon" Mauser Military Pistol (actually its an Astra 900, a Spanish copy of Mauser C96 which extensively equipped and homemade by the Chinese armies along the regular C96s in 1930s)


Astro 903 machine pistol, aka "20 shots", or auto C96, was the equal of submachine gun in the National Revolutionary Army

Those are EPIC Models! Can't wait to see what Rifles etc model'd are.

So, the auto mauser pistol is the main SMG of the NRA? Nice/

blackbishop wrote:

Newbie. wrote:
Nice idea! Just a suggestion, Whampoa cadet, Instead of upgrading to the Thompson, i'd say MP18, Light tank, i think the PanzerI was supplied to china? [It'd have MG's, redcing Chinese AT Capablity] or the Carden-Loyd, the FT17.

Can't wait to see a Japanese-Chinese mod, if it ever happens.

Yeah, the Panzer I was used by China also, there's missing a Bazooka squad...  I don't know a s...t about chinese history so i don't know how to represent the infantry.

Where would you put the Panzer I?? I would say t2; but I think that Dodge GMC 3/4(or Dodge GMC M31 I don't know exactly which one is) fit that role.

In my originally plan the Panzer 1 WAS the doctrinal tank for Central faction. It was planned to have AP bullets ability and is perfect to reflect the German influence within the NRA (My original dream is to see Chinese use German tank to scarp the Japanese junk :))

BUT the NRA only bought 10 of them and all were lost in the Battle for Nanking, so to add in the more numerical M3 stuarts would be more realistic

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blackbishop wrote:
Now I remember, animals would be hard to animate, are you sure that you want to use animals :-S. But I remember read somewhere in this forum about a german soldier riding a donkey...

I retract about using that italian light tank, I was reading about the T-26 and it could take its role; it had been upgraded at the time was used and I list some of them; some could be granted by doctrine though.

Abilities:
- AP Shells.
- Flank Speed.
- Mark Target(like schwimmwagen).

Upgrades:
- Anti-aircraft MG(Top MG).
- KhT-133 flamethrower(replaces main turret).
- TOP-1/TOS telescopic(like Spotting Scope in hetzer, improved optics, it could be on two levels first TOP-1 and then TOS).
- Armor upgrade(like armor skirts more hp, it could be implemented on vet1 perhaps).

Another upgrades:
- 76.2 mm KT tank gun mod/artillery tank(replaces main turret).
- KMT-26 mine roller.
- 71-TK-1 radio station(for US naval artillery call-ins).

China just used the "T-26 model 1933" but with most of these upgrades could make it a better support tank.

China use the type F vickers(47 mm gun+7.7 mm Vickers MG+Marconi Type G2A radio), but I don't think it would be necessary to include the vickers 6-tons.

I also think that some infantry could use "Button enemy vehicle".

What about doctrine call-ins of M4A1(76mm) shermans instead of M3 Stuart. You could use stuarts as T2 anti-infantry unit along with T-26 and Tier 3 with L&L vehicles and elite infantry, i.e. the M4 sherman and the M18 Hellcat.

Buildings:
- Company Headquarter.
- Recruit Post (like a bunker perhaps ???).
- Arsenal.
- Stable.
- Workshop.
- Field hospital.

T0:
- Peasants/Militia.
- Recruit Officers.

T1:
- Footman.
- CCKW truck.
- Dodge GMC3/4(Bren like armor).
- Type 24 HMG Support Team.

T2:
- Stuart/T-26.
- Type 31 60mm mortar.
- Pak 36.

T3:
- Combat Medic.
- Dare-to-die troops.
- M4 Sherman(after some L&L upgrade, "ultimate non-doctrinal chinese AI").
- M18 Hellcat(after some L&L upgrade, "ultimate non-doctrinal chinese AT").

EDIT: Perhaps there's only place for one light tank, but I prefer the T-26 over the M3 Stuart, it is more versatile.

Sorry but I dont get the tier system....? My idea is that the Chinese can freely build all the main building they like just like the Soviets. So that may not necessarily be a tier system

The Recruit Post is the result of the recruit officers squad being deploy. It MAY looks like a bunker in the sense that they can defend themselves but it would be only the personal weapon of the squad members.

About tank: T-26 and "button tank" seem a good idea. However I object the addition of M4 and M18:
1. In reality they were primarily equipped to the Chinese Expeditionary Forces that was sent to Burma, not mainland China itself. And if the Chinese is to be modelled after the CEF than it would just mean a simple copy of US
2. The concept for Chinese is to emphasize on infantry, and the use of M4 and M18 are opposed to this concept: They are simply TOO powerful that the NRA tactic would be degenerated into another European-style armor-oriented and lost its uniqueness
3. If the M4 and M18 are to be non-doctrinal is it mean that they can be mass produce? That, again, oppose to the concept, and dont forget that the Chinese was never able to produce tank in the entire war

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Newbie. wrote:
Those are EPIC Models! Can't wait to see what Rifles etc model'd are.

So, the auto mauser pistol is the main SMG of the NRA? Nice/

Yes, coz before the war an arm embargo was place which forbidden the importation of SMG into China,but pistol was not in the list. Therefore the local modified/ Spain Astra/ original design C96 which have selective fire capacity become kind of a SMG for the Chinese. Of course there were some other real SMGs in China as well (like MP-18) but they are just not as famous as those "20 shots" in China

I havent start on rifle yet, cant find a good quality frontal & rear& side photos of the Hanyang 88

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And: OMG did I just see "call in US naval support"? There was no US naval presence in the Chinese theater! Not to mention that most of the Chinese front line was just so inland that effective naval support is impossible

Last edited June 19, 2010 at 9:37 AM by moknin

just noticed, the 'Big Sword Troops' [lol]

i think it's a bit hard to animate meele combat... so what would they be? like a large squad of lieutenants?

Newbie. wrote:
just noticed, the 'Big Sword Troops' [lol]

i think it's a bit hard to animate meele combat... so what would they be? like a large squad of lieutenants?

Thats why this concept is just a draft......
Originally the big sword troops are kinda a desperate measure employed by the northern warlord and some NRA units who was unable to equip all their men with guns. However when utilize in good hand they were surprisingly successful.
The most famous use of big sword troops was in the 1933  defense of Xifengkuo by the 29 Army, where 500 specially selected troops who armed only with grenades and big swords (Dadao) launched a night assault against Japanese position. Before the Japanese found out, at least a hundred sleeping Japanese soldiers have already been chopped. Even when the well-armed Japanese engaged the big sword troops, they are unable to sent in artillery support and tanks in such chaos, and the Japanese bolt action rifles and bayonets proven inefficient to against the Dadao in melee warfare, which were weirded by men specialize in martial art. The attack soon become a victory for the 29th Army. There was even one song composed in the war in memory of the battle
As the only form of identification in night is touching, to identify friendly soldiers in night assaults, legend have said that the unit were ordered to UNDRESS in combat -- so if uniforms were touched they must be the enemy......Perhap we should made them cloakable?

Might start some work on the Japanese. Not very familiar with this so might be messed up.

Newbie. wrote:
just noticed, the 'Big Sword Troops' [lol]

i think it's a bit hard to animate meele combat... so what would they be? like a large squad of lieutenants?

that's not a problem. guys from zombie COH mod used granate throw animation as hitting, so removing granate and giving sword to hand would be possible.

hey folks I have published the Japanese concept in the first page and updated some aspects in the NRA concept:
- The upgrade for NRA medic to pick up enemy wound is cancelled
- Warlord faction - Zapai army: add a new first ability "Trap awareness" – All infantry can detect and disarm landmines when static
- Dong River column and Gong Bing can detect and disarm mine
- The unit CCKW truck is cancelled, represent now by an upgrade which allow artillery piece to be towed/carried by ox

Nice work witht he IJA Concept, might give some suggestions.

I don't know much about the IJA... Or if these units saw action in china, but...

Type 5 Chi-Ri... Basiclly a upgrade on a medium tank, armed with a 75mm gun.However, it has very poor armour.

Type 1 Ho-ha... Basiclly a halftrack. Maybe a reward unit for the truck?
[Armour and a MG at the cost of speed + more cost ]

Newbie. wrote:
Nice work witht he IJA Concept, might give some suggestions.

I don't know much about the IJA... Or if these units saw action in china, but...

Type 5 Chi-Ri... Basiclly a upgrade on a medium tank, armed with a 75mm gun.However, it has very poor armour.

Type 1 Ho-ha... Basiclly a halftrack. Maybe a reward unit for the truck?
[Armour and a MG at the cost of speed + more cost ]

Type 5: well this tank was not developed beyond prototype......What a shame coz its completion would meant that the IJA would finally have something to up against the Allies armor

but the Type 1 is a good idea. Perhap make it into an upgrade to the truck?

Found out alot about Japanese vehicles. Most of them were outdated or never produced. There were however two tanks, a light and a medium, which were widely used and not that bad.

Type95 Ha-Go light tank which later was updated with a 57 mm low velocity gun from the other tank (below) It wasn't the exact same, but not that different. 

Type 97 Chi-Ha 57mm tank gun, widely used and almost the only Japanese tank to be mass-produced. It was later a "base-model" for many other tanks and self-propelled-guns.

None of these were produced in many high numbers, but they might be units you can get under one of the doctrines?

he put in both of them i think. XD.

With the type 1. Just had a idea, like how we upgrade the T-34/76 to manufacture T-34/85's? Basically same, just Truck-To-Type-1.

Few more suggestions xD!

Forced labour - dunno if this is possible, but when the officer dies, they 'change team' to the Chinese, arming one of them with the officer's pistol and their tools?

Unit:

Royale Sniper

3 men in a sharpshooter squad.

1 Spotter, armed with a Type38. 1 Sniper, armed with a Scoped Type I rifle, and a radio operator, armed with a Nambu.

Can call in airstrikes from Zero Fighters, aslong as the radio operator is alive.

The Snipe ris unique as it must use it's 'LOAD RIFLE' Ablity before firing,
ABLITIES:

Load Rifle

Loads the Sniper's rifle, so it can fire ONCE.
5 Munitions

Call in Zero'

Calls in a strafing run from a Zero Fighter.

REQUIREMENTS: RADIO OPERATOR ALIVE.

Cost: 20 MUNI. 35 FUEL.

Big Sword troop ideas

'CAUSE DISRUPTION'

Cause's a fake random disruption on a point of the map, such as 'Mine's Found' 'Sniper Spotted' 'Unit Under Attack', confusing the enemy.


for a AT Squad [Japan]

Upgrade the 20mm AT Rifles to the more powerful, Type 4 70mm AT Rockets.

EDIT: The T4 was never used in china, my bad.

I'll think some more stuff up xD!

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ne wunits:

Specialist Greandier Squad

4 men, 3 Armed with Type44 Carbines and 1 with a Type 10 Greande Discharger.

Ablitys:

FIRE TYPE 91:

Fire's a Type 91 Handgreande.

FIRE TYPE 11:

Fire's a Type 11 Smoke Greande.

FIRE TYPE 10 FLARE & SIGNAL:

Fire's the Type 10 Flare & Signal Greande, temporary locking down any allied sectors.

TYPE TYPE 91P:

Fire's a Type 91 Pryotenic Greande.

FIRE TYPE10B:

Firer's a fake Blank Type10 Greande, suppresing nearby squads.

Last edited June 19, 2010 at 6:50 PM by Newbie.

cephalos wrote:
I like whole idea, love idea of chinese doctrines. But I don't like support squads. 2 men? ne sniper shot and than they can't use weapon ( at and mortar). 3 men is required minimum.
Can you make some bazooka squads? I think US gave lot of weapons to china, so bazooka should be included.

Sorry I missed this part
As sniper is kinda the archenemy of support teams, the size of support team is not really matter and 2 men only somehow slightly speed up the process. but I would think about it

Dare-die troop fit in the role for bazooka. Thats why they have a free-of-charge throwable explosive charge. While bazooka did supplied into China, they were largely allocated to the Burma battlefield (as well many L&L equipments) Make it irrelevant in the Chinese mainland battlefield

Furthermore as you guys have noticed I try not to add existing game weapon to the mod, coz what I want is an UNIQUE FACTION rather than boring copy (Thats why the Pacific Thunder mod would also become a challenge for this). Although the Sherman and Bazooka did extensively supplied to NRA, but they are also EXISTED in the US faction. Yes the Stuarts is also an existing British unit, and its addition is due to a relevant large number of service in NRA, avoid the NRA to become too armor-oriented, and.....embarrassing speaking, originally I just DONT know that the Stuarts exist in the game! (Yes I have never play British. I nearly only use German in game) Anyway the Stuarts would properly be replaced, by perhaps T-26 or else

Last edited June 19, 2010 at 6:57 PM by moknin

This is the rifle you need???

blackbishop wrote:
This is the rifle you need???

Yes thx!!

Wait.....Is it a Gewehr 88 rather than Hanyang 88? That would be a problem because there are different between them

Last edited June 20, 2010 at 7:48 AM by moknin

You are right :-X... I was comparing with the picture on wikipedia and are slightly different.



My apologize.

Last edited June 20, 2010 at 5:01 PM by blackbishop

Yea, I see the difference.