Locked topic · 131 posts

The SS

Ostheer Suggestions

Re: The SS

May 30, 2010 at 11:13 AM

PetikeHUN1984 wrote:
QuoteSS Heavy Panzer Battalion support
cost-2000mp,8CP
2 tigers
1 king tiger
truck with repair squad(would work like WH repair bunker and needed to be set up to start repairs)
abilities
-tank horror, even sound of tigers will make russian infantry retreat(active-15 seconds, cooldown 70 seconds)
-rapid fire,sacrifce mobilty to tear apart t-34's and other soviet tanks fast and from safe distance
-top speed ,take them by suprise and make chaos behind russian lines(50 munitions,cooldown-50 second)

Wtf???? Ballance?

well..yeah this would be a bit too over powered ;D

"There are no desperate situations, there are only desperate people."
Heinz Guderian

#35897

Re: The SS

May 30, 2010 at 11:16 AM

Hm. It was very rare that Tiger I fought with Tiger II in one group ;) I just know the 503. and 506. sHeeresPzAbtl. with this "unit combination".

Anyway i still think that the Ostheer wont need an unit with the name "SS-X-Unit". Perhaps some skins will be orientated by the SS but out of my view nothing more is needed for CoH ( look at the old factions; the Stormtroopers of the Wehrmacht-doc seems to be SS-troops and that they arent names SS-Stormtroopers hadnt killed any gamer ;) ).

May the force be with you.

#35901

Re: The SS

May 30, 2010 at 11:43 AM

why you are so against that "ss" would be included in name of ..ss units,well i think ss should be included in the name ,not because it just sounds cool or whatever ,but because ss wasn't part of official german armed forces(heer) ,so including them in ostheer but not clearly saying that they are ss troops just sounds a bit illogical to me ,but ok thats just my opinion.

"There are no desperate situations, there are only desperate people."
Heinz Guderian

#35905

Re: The SS

May 30, 2010 at 12:00 PM

Like i had already written;
I personally wont have problems with a unit called "SS-Unit"
but i got a lot of PNs, mails and feedback of a number of sources and all in all i know that there is a number of people which are totally against the Waffen-SS.

I personally prefer a neutral calling because out of my view it is a good and acceptable compromise.

May the force be with you.

#35909

Re: The SS

May 30, 2010 at 12:16 PM

@kitekatus: I think that would be the wunderwaffen doctrine. :P

A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu

I had in mind something that the heavyest armour the faction would have the Panzer 4s, maybe the Panther. IN that case the faction would recommend some heavyer armour, placed in a doctrine, or the other doctrine should add some anti tank ability.

#36041

Re: The SS

May 31, 2010 at 3:27 AM

Lord wrote:
Like i had already written;
I personally wont have problems with a unit called "SS-Unit"
but i got a lot of PNs, mails and feedback of a number of sources and all in all i know that there is a number of people which are totally against the Waffen-SS.

I personally prefer a neutral calling because out of my view it is a good and acceptable compromise.

COH tag: BrainBoru

#36160

Re: The SS

May 31, 2010 at 11:35 PM

Second attempt:

Elite Troops assistance

Left side
Ostheer sturmgrenadier

A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu

Cost: 470MP
Possible Abilities:

Ability 1:Upgrade one or two MP44 Assault Rifle (60 munitions per squad member)
Ability 2:Add one light MG42s to squad weapons complement (75 munitions)
Ability 3:Add one Panzerschrecks to squad weapons complement (75 munitions)
Ability 4:Throw bundled grenade (40 munitions)
Ability 5:Use med-pack (35 munitions)
Ability 6:Use sprint free cost (45 sec)

Note:
Basic weapons: 3xMauser 98K +1 MP40 (sq. leader)

Tiger call-in

A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu

Cost 900 MP
Possible Abilities:
Ability 1:Armour Piercing Shell (30 munitions per shoot)
Ability 2:High Explosive Rounds (30 munitions per shoot)
Ability 3:Tank Commander (increase Line of sight)

Elefant call-in

A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu
Cost 1000 MP

Right side

SD presence
Whit this you’re infantrys can’t reatreat, but increase the HP and accuracy. (not drastically)

Heroic Charge
Sturmgrenadiers get this ability. Same as the british.

Crusade against Bolseism
Sturmgrenadier squad recevie +1 squad member. Or maybe other infantrys get one plus member. Dont know the whole picture of the Ostheer.

So tis is more "Ostheer-ish" I think, waiting for the feedback. :) Oh, and the real Ostheer. :D

Post Merge: [time]1275349183[/time]

Or put some real evilness, something like this:

A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu

It would be the Über unit or doctrinal ability. Sorry for this, rough day... ;D

Last edited May 31, 2010 at 11:39 PM by TheReaper

#36194

Re: The SS

June 1, 2010 at 9:51 AM

TheReaper wrote:
the Red Army raped the half of the Eastern Europe. They fought for Vodka. The German regime and the soviet were the same

They raped the half of the Eastern Europe for Vodka.
Are not you ashamed? In the Red Army were all Soviet people, and all Eastern Europe is their children. If you want to talk about the evil forces - talk about the NKVD troops. We say that the SS is evil, because there was the Nuremberg Tribunal, which proved their guilt. But your western view of the Red Army is a subjective opinion, not the Holy Truth.

Please, refrain from Russophobian and anti-Soviet claims.

I believe that we should not add the SS, the Panzer Elite is the disguised Waffen-SS.

I believe in one thing only, the power of the human will. © Joseph Stalin

Last edited June 1, 2010 at 10:02 AM by UeArtemis

#36209

Re: The SS

June 1, 2010 at 1:14 PM

Dear UeArtemis!

I am hungarian citizen, and noble. My famili has a mill and many factory in the war and never make millitary equipment. But when the russians and his loyalists came to hungary stolen in the name of communism. My famili was made flour and give bread for hungarian peaples in the war. Vorosilov Marshall stolen my grandmothers (grand Barones) residence, and take my famili to the street. Also stole 4 car 2 truck, and all furniture in the house. This house was a Russian HQ in budapest.
My grandfather was killed in the war by russian, but he never fight just work in the flour factory. This is my family storry and this was true. The Russians was agressive and brutal peaple in the war by civilians.

Ui:

I dont hate the Russians! Many people change in the war. But after the war the Russians in Hungary terrorize the citizens, and kill many. Read one book in this theme if you not belive me.

A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu

Last edited June 1, 2010 at 5:45 PM by PetikeHUN1984

#36218

Re: The SS

June 1, 2010 at 4:32 PM

UeArtemis wrote:
I believe that we should not add the SS, the Panzer Elite is the disguised Waffen-SS.

Sorry, but I have to correct you here: The Panzer Elite is supposed to be the Panzer Lehr Division - Wehrmacht, not Waffen-SS.

The fundamental problem of Democracy is that the majority of voters are idiots fueled by uninformed rage - and the Politicians do everything to cater to them.

#36224

Re: The SS

June 1, 2010 at 5:35 PM

Schuultz wrote:
UeArtemis wrote:
I believe that we should not add the SS, the Panzer Elite is the disguised Waffen-SS.

Sorry, but I have to correct you here: The Panzer Elite is supposed to be the Panzer Lehr Division - Wehrmacht, not Waffen-SS.

Think i have to correct YOU ;)
PE is not clear.
But there are some heavy points against Panzer-Lehr-Division.
1.) Panzer-Lehr-Division never fought at the netherlands.
2.) PLD ( Panzer-Lehr-Division ) was an elite devision so they got the best tanks, weapons and supplies of all units.
3.) PLD had no Marder III, Panzer IV ausf. E or JgPz 38 t tanks.

May the force be with you.

#36246

Re: The SS

June 1, 2010 at 8:58 PM

I think the SS should be included

My Ostheer Concept Updated: August 26, 2010

http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=4099.0

#36264

Re: The SS

June 1, 2010 at 11:02 PM

I agree with Lord Rommel, it's not 100% sure what the PE should depict. The most logical explanation in my opinion, is that the PE should represent a Kampfgruppe made up from the remainings of former Divisons etc.
This also explains why there is a lot of outdated vehicles and "field-modifications". However SS-units could probably be part of this Kampfgruppe, but it would be false to say PE is only SS.

I think this was even said by Lord Rommel himself!

But now back to topic please. This also includes to stop discussing about who raped how many and which side were the bad guys etc. I think that kind of discussion should be hold in the off-topic-area.

In memoriam MrScruff
The Wehrmacht in the East

Obstheer FTW!

#36325

Re: The SS

June 2, 2010 at 12:25 PM

cool i like devs on that matter a lot
just call em elite troops and it is done with
some other mod (Blitzk....) spammed freakin SS facists everywhere, a reason for me to ignore this mod

"But risk has always been an inescapable part of warfare."
Grand Admiral Thrawn

#36721

Re: The SS

June 5, 2010 at 8:47 AM

there are already other mods containing the SS and they didn't get sued. anyway the SS played a big role in the east. Wittmann and all the other PanzerAce were part of the Waffen SS. Remember the battle of Kursk where the Leibstandarte was involved. So it would be nice to see some fanatic untis in eastern front. Es ist der große vaterländische krieg !

#36724

Re: The SS

June 5, 2010 at 9:19 AM

PetikeHUN1984 wrote:
[center]Dear UeArtemis!

I am hungarian citizen, and noble. My famili has a mill and many factory in the war and never make millitary equipment. But when the russians and his loyalists came to hungary stolen in the name of communism. My famili was made flour and give bread for hungarian peaples in the war. Vorosilov Marshall stolen my grandmothers (grand Barones) residence, and take my famili to the street. Also stole 4 car 2 truck, and all furniture in the house. This house was a Russian HQ in budapest.
My grandfather was killed in the war by russian, but he never fight just work in the flour factory. This is my family storry and this was true. The Russians was agressive and brutal peaple in the war by civilians.

I think it was simply an expropriation of the Wartime.
Could you tell us how exactly your relative died?
P.S. You are a nobleman - a "class enemy" of the Communists. ;) Stalin wan't Russian, Soviet solders weren't all Russians, but you accuse Russian of cruelty to Hungarians, while, perhaps, was a cruelty of the Communists to nobles.

I believe in one thing only, the power of the human will. © Joseph Stalin

Last edited June 5, 2010 at 10:59 AM by UeArtemis

#36727

Re: The SS

June 5, 2010 at 9:49 AM

UeArtemis

Sorry, but i dont want to talk about it. This is private thing.
Why you interested in this thing?

#36731

Re: The SS

June 5, 2010 at 10:54 AM

OK. I found this interesting because I could explain how it looked in the eyes of the Soviet people.

I think that we do not need another German faction. I want to see the Hungarian tanks in the game.
I like 40M Turan II.

I believe in one thing only, the power of the human will. © Joseph Stalin

Last edited June 5, 2010 at 11:03 AM by UeArtemis

#36736

Re: The SS

June 5, 2010 at 11:28 AM

QuoteI think that we do not need another German faction. I want to see the Hungarian tanks in the game.
I like 40M Turan II.

Yes!!!! But we are alone with this thing.

A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu

The first Hungarian Armored Div.

A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu

35M Ansaldo

A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu

39M Csaba

A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu

40M Nimrod AA and tank hunter

A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu

28M Toldi

A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu

LT vz 35

A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu

Turan I

A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu

Turn II

A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu

Turan III (made only prototype)

A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu

Zrínyi

A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu

#36739

Re: The SS

June 5, 2010 at 12:01 PM

39M Csaba Photo!!! :o I never saw it before :)

We have the Wehrmacht for the German Wehrmacht.
We Panzer Elite for the German Waffen-SS (let repainted them ::) )
I think we need a not German faction. The best candidate is Hungary, because it had own unique tanks.
Just strange to have only Germans in the Axis.

I believe in one thing only, the power of the human will. © Joseph Stalin

Last edited June 5, 2010 at 12:09 PM by UeArtemis

#36742

Re: The SS

June 5, 2010 at 12:17 PM

Csaba was a light recon and armored command wehicle.

this is a recon version 40M whit radio antenna.

A képet a Képfeltöltés.hu tárolja. http://www.kepfeltoltes.hu

Post Merge: [time]1275683049[/time]

Yes the hungarians just stay in supplie ctegory in the Axis Kampfguppe "Kárpát". The HUN-ans has 3 Army and 3 SS Division and some Grund attack, Bomber and many popular fighter plane squadron(Pumas).

But the Kampfgruppe "Kárpát" includes Romanians, Slovakian soldiers to.

Last edited June 5, 2010 at 1:02 PM by PetikeHUN1984

#37098

Re: The SS

June 8, 2010 at 8:33 PM

I like to see the SS part of the Ostheer.

#37104

Re: The SS

June 8, 2010 at 8:53 PM

Just put in somewhere a unit called the SS.

The SS

An elite squad of SS troops armed with a Stg44s will fight for the fatherland! These are the crack troops of Germany, and are unsepressable. Use them wisely, you can only get 1!

The Russians think there sooo tough, wait till the Ostheer comes...

Coh Name: Seeme

#37456

Re: The SS

June 11, 2010 at 12:16 PM

I dont like to see SS in the Ostheer.
The SS was the Elite Support Troops of the German Army.
The Ostheer include the regular german army, not the SS.
At the Eastern front started the SS was a little and unexperienced division, but inspired and motivated.

Make the SS mod to play with only SS.

#37537

Re: The SS

June 12, 2010 at 12:25 AM

The SS label bears lots of negatives to say the least. Even if part of it did its great warcrimes, its still the hatred-filled ideology that made them feel they do no bad thing. Just cleaning up Lebensraum, ja ?- Mindless people--.... just look at whats going on today, some organizations financed by the rich in the background, support these xenophobic groups to get in power in Europe, and make another war - again - in Europe. But this is not the place to speak of it.

when screaming on the Russians how they raped German women etc...First they were Soviets, then, it is true there were rather few individuals who lacked discipline. Rapists were shot on sight. German women could ask for abortion if they said they were raped. Also, most of the soldiers were older, cause the young generation was killed by nazis. Also, even if there was some raping, it is too little to tell the truth. If Stalin was as merciful as Hitler was, I wonder if instead of raping, some 15 million or more German civilians would be killed or more for more Lebensraum. When western barbarians kill, its hushed up, but western propaganda seems to equalize some raping with one of the biggest mass murders. Also the anti-Russian russophobic propaganda implies, no matter Jugashvili was the leader, it is always bad Russians. Cold war "over"...not. They scream about Jews being the innocent victims. But how many non-Jews died? Their lives arent more precious than any other. But theyre given attention by media...and who owns them...

not far away from where I live, SS rounded up civilians, some were shot, some were cut by saws used for cutting wood...
this is just a part of almost endless stories of how the Vaterland was coool and the SS were real pros at everything...exceptionally at losing brains. Not to mention going to a hospital and killing everyone there.

#37555

Re: The SS

June 12, 2010 at 3:06 AM

When you listen to the chatter of a volksgrenadier or panzergrenadier squad I think you can hear someone say, "Not just anyone can join the SS!" Great addition to the game as a doctrine though.

"This Goddam forum smells like Volksgrenadiers!"
1st SS Division Leibstandarte SS A. H.

#37571

Re: The SS

June 12, 2010 at 9:43 AM

TomaSkTemplar wrote:
when screaming on the Russians how they raped German women etc...First they were Soviets, then, it is true there were rather few individuals who lacked discipline. Rapists were shot on sight. German women could ask for abortion if they said they were raped. Also, most of the soldiers were older, cause the young generation was killed by nazis. Also, even if there was some raping, it is too little to tell the truth. If Stalin was as merciful as Hitler was, I wonder if instead of raping, some 15 million or more German civilians would be killed or more for more Lebensraum. When western barbarians kill, its hushed up, but western propaganda seems to equalize some raping with one of the biggest mass murders. Also the anti-Russian russophobic propaganda implies, no matter Jugashvili was the leader, it is always bad Russians. Cold war "over"...not. They scream about Jews being the innocent victims. But how many non-Jews died? Their lives arent more precious than any other. But theyre given attention by media...and who owns them...

Weren´t TWO MILLION German women raped? From small children to very, very old women? In gangbangs, with mutilations, using bottles, etc...?

I hardly think that could have been done by a "few individuals who lacked discipline". And that´s just the raping, if we want to include unwarranted murder and pillaging... hell, we can then extend this to the blockade of Berlin if you want, and add the people starving until the Western Allies got the Berlin Airlift going on at the cost of human lives because of the Soviet Government´s son-of-bitchiness. And how about Russian troops raping women just liberated from concentration camps?

Also, Jew lives are not more precious. It´s just that they were the most numerous group of civilians ever subjected to Government-approved (and backed and organized) genocide in a relatively peaceful environment. "Casual" rape and murder during war are standard, but turning genocide into a cold, merciless Government enterprise is very, very different.

Quotenot far away from where I live, SS rounded up civilians, some were shot, some were cut by saws used for cutting wood...

I´m sure the German people have tons of happy stories to tell about the Russian occupiers too.

Quotethis is just a part of almost endless stories of how the Vaterland was coool and the SS were real pros at everything...exceptionally at losing brains. Not to mention going to a hospital and killing everyone there.

Soviet soldiers were not much better, Russian propaganda was hardly any more merciful than the Germans´.

Also, massacring wounded people in a hospital was also done by the Soviet troops.

Honestly, Soviet troops have committed crimes every bit as terrible as the German SS have. You talk of "Western propaganda". I wonder if you´ve had a look at some of the Soviets´? Like the one that equated entering Russia with raping a soldier´s woman and which, Antony Beevor suspected, later contributed to the mass rapings in Germany by Red Army troops?

There was a time when the Red Army officials had to ask the propaganda writers to knock it down a notch on the hate speech. Does this tell you anything about what Soviet troops were doing in occupied countries?

#37575

Re: The SS

June 12, 2010 at 10:36 AM

Saavedra wrote:
if we want to include unwarranted murder and pillaging... hell, we can then extend this to the blockade of Berlin if you want, and add the people starving until the Western Allies got the Berlin Airlift going on at the cost of human lives because of the Soviet Government´s son-of-bitchiness. And how about Russian troops raping women just liberated from concentration camps?

I´m sure the German people have tons of happy stories to tell about the Russian occupiers too.

Yeah, in my country the "comrades" stayed more than 60 years, I can tell stories about the soviets. Maybe heared 1956's Insurrection, after there was a crude retaliation. The soviet troops never ever heraed the flush toilet, they wanted to clean the meat in the toilet. xD They called it "stealing machine". :D
All I can say that the Germans stayed here, there was as bad as the soviets, exept we were on the loser's side.

#37581

Re: The SS

June 12, 2010 at 11:45 AM

some of you people like to point indirectly that nazis werent bad because they didnt murder YOU or some of your family directly. When soviets did, warcrime blablabla. There is no problem when they murder others, but it gets new attention when it gets personal. Dont think I favor the commies after the war they (communist party of Czechoslovakia) stole almost all property and land of my grandgrand father who worked in the US mines for 24 years and all he worked for was stolen. Burgeouis kulak or whatever was his ...ˇmarkingˇ. Now should I hate? Should I hate this one stole this land of ours, etc etc...I dont. Some of you do and thats a problem imo. It shouldnt be forgotten, so it doesnt happen again easily. Because history is easily spinned to match the propagandist aims. Propaganda doesnt mean it has to be lies as well, but it has its aims.
I dont put every German of that time into the nazi basket. Funny thing is you are ideologized to hate the red army no matter it saved lives of many people. You dont want to realize that. They, all of them = evil end of story for you. You may read some opinion and not multiple sources.

Anyways, I do not believe of the rapes being so frequent, its just part of self-pity propaganda overblown to hate Russians in general, = asiatic animals, blabla. Some didnt see civilization till they came to the front...

Perhaps they thought theyd execute poor soldiers based on some poor accusations. If nothing else and somewhat true, they were well humiliated. Instead of being mass murdered in return. What do you think? Stalin wasnt just after all. His NKVD "executioner" squads seemed to have no conscience, so for them, if given order they would obey. I say Germany got very little for what it deserved. Stalin seemed to have higher plans...not revenge eye for an eye. So the equal evil to Hitler wasnt in the end as mad. (or so propaganda of todays nazis wants to believe Stalin and Hitler are same evil as their ideologies...to demonize USSR and Russia of today)

Also about 1956...in Hungary it is perceived somewhat differently. Because even with communist regime, they did not get rid of the Great Hungary of single Magyar nation syndrome. Not even today as you can see. But I hope I didnt hurt anybody´s national feelilings, because when I mention something like that, I always end up flamed.

Last edited June 12, 2010 at 11:47 AM by TomaSkTemplar

#37594

Re: The SS

June 12, 2010 at 2:04 PM

No problem, TomaSK Templar, what I write is facts, I dont give any emotional to the forum. ANd I think we gone off-topic. The victors write history. It's not about rapes it's about the totaritarian regimes. If you go to Columbia, or East-Korea you find the same goverments like Stalin's or Hitler's. In Slovakia or Romania I think have bigger sovinism, than in here, Hungary, so don't worry about that. :)

"He who controls the past commands the future. He who commands the future conquers the past. " - George Orwell

#37600

Re: The SS

June 12, 2010 at 2:58 PM

TheReaper, I think you are refering to "North-Korea"
Secondly: both the Hitler and Stalin were evil people and they ordered nasty stuff to be done. That being said, the stuff that was done has also been blown out or proportions on a number of occasions by propaganda, something which has been done on both sides.

Nice quote from 1984 btw, although not entirely correct if memory serves me right.

That being said: Can we PLEASE get back on topic? Thank you in advance.

on topic: I do not see any good reason for including the name SS with a unit. It does not fit into the general CoH style. If a unit is recognisable as a possible SS unit, than those who want, can see it as that, and those who find it offensive don't have to see it as that, very simple.

Cheers

#37622

Re: The SS

June 12, 2010 at 5:42 PM

We already have the ss, Storm troopers and some pe things, so I think we should put it in the obsteer just like they did with other fractions.

The Russians think there sooo tough, wait till the Ostheer comes...

Coh Name: Seeme

#37624

Re: The SS

June 12, 2010 at 6:24 PM

Tico_1990 wrote:
TheReaper, I think you are refering to "North-Korea"

That being said: Can we PLEASE get back on topic? Thank you in advance.

Yes I thought of north Korea, thanks the correction. The quote was copy/pasted from here: http://www.saidwhat.co.uk/quotes/famous/george_orwell/he_who_controls_the_past_commands_1493

And yes we need to stay on topic, totally agree with that.

#37645

Re: The SS

June 13, 2010 at 12:28 AM

Seeme wrote:
We already have the ss, Storm troopers and some pe things, so I think we should put it in the obsteer just like they did with other fractions.

I agree , something like
Osten Kommandant : An elite officer from Germany's finest joins your troops , his Sturmtrooper body guards are ready to take on all challenges.
several things hint at SS , " Germany's Finest" could be an elite division , or the SS , Stormtrooper's could be the SA , which is the SS.

Molly: " It's our rock garden"
Dwight: "What are you farming, Bullcrap?"

You Are a Rebel Spy and a traitor to the Empire!
~Darth Vader

Any typos found may be given to Seeme.

#37651

Re: The SS

June 13, 2010 at 1:03 AM

I don't see why the SS troops shouldn't be called as such, the
SS are already mentioned several times in the single-player campaigns and random soldier chatter.

#37653

Re: The SS

June 13, 2010 at 1:33 AM

Happycat wrote:
I don't see why the SS troops shouldn't be called as such, the
SS are already mentioned several times in the single-player campaigns and random soldier chatter.

But you're not playing as them, sometimes they may be allied, but you aren't actually playing or using them.

"You can close your eyes and plug your ears and be afraid and ignorant of the darker parts of history, but always know that you're the one responsible for allowing those events to happen again and with even greater consequences and not know how to end the nightmare you did upon yourself."

#37666

Re: The SS

June 13, 2010 at 3:46 AM

There are SS units and SS doctrines in the BoTB mod.

[insert signature here]

#37866

Re: The SS

June 14, 2010 at 6:15 PM

listen to Rommel...SS will not be included (at least not by the name of SS)
also Griptonix, you have a strange signature that could lead people to odd coclusions (like you were a SS fanboy >:()

"But risk has always been an inescapable part of warfare."
Grand Admiral Thrawn

#37878

Re: The SS

June 14, 2010 at 9:27 PM

Quotelisten to Rommel...SS will not be included (at least not by the name of SS)
also Griptonix, you have a strange signature that could lead people to odd coclusions (like you were a SS fanboy >:()

#37933

Re: The SS

June 15, 2010 at 10:02 AM

HyperSniper999 wrote:
Happycat wrote:
I don't see why the SS troops shouldn't be called as such, the
SS are already mentioned several times in the single-player campaigns and random soldier chatter.

But you're not playing as them, sometimes they may be allied, but you aren't actually playing or using them.

Check the lapels on the Storm Troopers from the Blitzkrieg doctrine. "SS".

OMG IF YOU PLAY THE BLITZKRIEG DOCTRINE YOU ARE A BABY-EATING NAZI SCUMBAG!

(Well, baby-eating sounds appropriate with Storm Troopers being the dingos of CoH)

#38355

Re: The SS

June 19, 2010 at 10:01 PM

I think the SS should be included, mostly because they supported the Heer and played a major role in the eastern front, also I think if they are included they should be a call-in unit mostly because I don't want 10 OP SS squads running at my infantry sections.

"AT missile is OP, Infantry is fine"

Sincerely, Tank

CoH name: LTEVANLEE
Steam: ScarfaceOsamaBinPolPot
TWC: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/member.php?u=147065

#38842

Re: The SS

June 26, 2010 at 5:57 PM

I completely agree with MrDefence: since all three major SS Division (Reich, LSSAH and Totenkopf) fought decisive battles in the russian campaign (charkov, kursk), they should be included in the Ostheer.

A doctrine ability would fit best. I suggest a 4-man SS-Infantry call-in squad with abilites similar to the Rangers, maybe more anti-tank capacity due to russian hvy tank counter.

#38867

Re: The SS

June 27, 2010 at 5:39 AM

And to answer Rommels question why do they need to be named the SS? Simple why is the Ranger Squad not named the Heavy Infantry Squad, the SS should be the same way.

"AT missile is OP, Infantry is fine"

Sincerely, Tank

CoH name: LTEVANLEE
Steam: ScarfaceOsamaBinPolPot
TWC: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/member.php?u=147065

#38906

Re: The SS

June 27, 2010 at 6:37 PM

The rule for naming is simple: when it is iconic, you give it an iconic name.

Calling riflemen "riflemen" is normal because they are not too iconic. Calling a King Tiger a "King Tiger" is normal because it is an iconic tank (calling it "Super-Heavy Tank" kind of dilutes the awesomeness factor).

It is the same reason Commandos, Airborne and the like have these names.

In the same way, why would you call "SS" something like "Heavy Infantry"? Not only does it dilute the awesomeness factor, it also contrasts with the actual heavy infantry like Assault Grenadiers.

#38943

Re: The SS

June 28, 2010 at 7:47 AM

I prefer the term "Waffen-Grenadier". it's historically sound/iconic ("Waffen-Grenadier" clearly hints at a Waffen-SS unit, unlike the more common usage of "Panzergrenadier"...with some exceptions of course), includes foreign volunteers, and placates rabid Germanophobes lol. So, it's a win-win for everyone. The "der SS" (as in 33. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS Charlemagne [Französische Nr. 1]) at the end is optional..many Waffen-SS divisions were known by their Divisional (i.e. Nordland) and Regimental (i.e. Hermann von Salza) cuff titles.

If by SS you people meant the Totenkopfverbande or Allegemeine-SS, then I don't see how they would fit into the game. ::)

Wunderwaffen Doctrine: What technology created for us, we drive it towards the enemy.

Last edited June 28, 2010 at 8:06 AM by Werwolf

#38952

Re: The SS

June 28, 2010 at 1:04 PM

Werwolf's idea is in my opinion the best. :) +1 and my personal approval for such a great yet simple suggestion!

Calling a possible SS-influenced unit "Waffen-Grenadiers" just puts in everything without annoying certain people and gives a good impression what this unit is, while at the same time leaving room for different interpretations.

In memoriam MrScruff
The Wehrmacht in the East

Obstheer FTW!

#38961

Re: The SS

June 28, 2010 at 5:03 PM

Pauly3 wrote:
listen to Rommel...SS will not be included (at least not by the name of SS)
also Griptonix, you have a strange signature that could lead people to odd coclusions (like you were a SS fanboy >:()

Yes I sure am an SS fan boy! I think they were an awesome group of fighters, very effective in combat, and a major fighting arm of the German military. They should be included in the game for those reasons. All sides commited crimes and did terrible things during the war, and the actions of a handful of the SS divisions shouldn't restrict them from being included in the game.

"This Goddam forum smells like Volksgrenadiers!"
1st SS Division Leibstandarte SS A. H.

#38977

Re: The SS

June 28, 2010 at 9:14 PM

man, i am sorry but i find that strange.....

"But risk has always been an inescapable part of warfare."
Grand Admiral Thrawn

#38994

Re: The SS

June 29, 2010 at 2:13 AM

Those responsible have paid for their crimes. Even if they didn't, chances are they're dead. I agree that they should be in the game representing the elites. They defiantly were among the best of the best in the art of war. Griptonix has a very good point. Pauly3 I think your making some wild accusations there.

I think, therefore I am...
I learn, therefore I advance...
I destroy, that I may endure.

Last edited June 29, 2010 at 2:15 AM by TacticalNuke

#38995

Re: The SS

June 29, 2010 at 2:37 AM

It's all right, I can get where Pauly3 is coming from. ;) Generations of people born in post-war Germany were raised to think that the SS (including the Waffen-SS and the HIAG) were things that should be forgotten and relegated to the darkest corners of history. For most of them, these men, many of whom either died defending the Fatherland or shot as war criminals (justly or unjustly, with or without due process) are objects of national shame and disgrace. Hence, in Germany, openly admiring the SS or any other aspect of the Third Reich would immediately mark you as a Neo-Nazi. So, you can't blame him... It's just what a lot of people believe.

My great-grandfather was a Nordland vet. He had a clean record, but people still judged him because of his previous wartime affiliations (the Soviet soldiers who captured him even branded him on the back of his neck with a crude poker shaped like a swastika). Wherever he went, he was sometimes ridiculed as a volunteer-member of an "evil" army who lost the war. But still, according to my mother and my grandfather, he wore his medals and badges with pride, especially during important occasions. He earned them. And I'm not ashamed of him either. 8)

Okay, back to topic. :P

Wunderwaffen Doctrine: What technology created for us, we drive it towards the enemy.

Last edited June 29, 2010 at 5:19 AM by Werwolf