Patch 1.10 'Revolution'

Ugh, first match went ok, 2nd match crashed within 2 minutes of starting.

Can balancing take a backseat while you guys try to figure out what's making this game crash so much?

I can confirm that the crashes are back, first game crashed.

First game crashed right as it ended and was loading back to main page second crashed within first 10 mins, didnt bother after that

hey guys if i want to reinstall do i still need old updates n ef setup 1.0 or dis new ef setup 1.10 will do ??

Causes for the new crashing problem will take top priority. Post as many details as you can into the Bugs subforum to help us identify the problem and sort it quickly. It shouldn't be anything too major because the dev version was extensively tested and to my knowledge, never crashed.

Those having crashes may have other mods conflicting with EF, such as a skin mod?

Beg pardon, but Zhytomir is NOT fixed - AI still gets jammed up on one of the foot bridges (the one beside the marshy area).

Probably best to simply put in a decent, vehicle size bridge....

HDLK

Good work with new skins, I will use those in my next Comic Book "Steel Monster". This time it will be also from Soviet point of view.

Regarding crashes:
when played 1st time 1.10 it crashed too, after battle when loading screen appeared... as someone here wrote and this disn't happend before it's a new one. It had to hard reset pc.

Regarding units:
I believe this wasn't the intention but Guards (6men) costs 340MP and Shock guards (7men+Cover fire) (after upgrade in Armory) costs only 300MP.

Another unit - Ingenery after Sturm.ing. upgrade in Amrory it is possible to upgrade them with flamethrowers. It works only for non-upgraded Ingenery NOT for Sturmovie Ingenery which I find little odd because this should be Urban Warfare doctrinal only...

tobier wrote:
Those having crashes may have other mods conflicting with EF, such as a skin mod?

Nope

Lend-Lease Sherman - worst idea ever...
2-3 months ago there were alot of Lend-Lease topics.
Most of the forum, icluding some Devs said that a 3rd (if counting Calliopes and Crocs 5th) Sherman is a bad idea.

I understand that Re-skinning a Sherman was easier than makind a T-28 or a Lend-Lease Valentine but who needs a Sherman when you have T-34 tank riders on the other side of the tree.

Dont know what was wrong with Mechanics Salvaging (exept they were doing it too fast) or with IS-2 digging in (just lower the turret rotation speed).

Now Sherman costs 120 MP less than other tank call-ins, its available at 3 CPs like a slower 57mm Churchill (very needed for the British to defend from PE light armor rushes - Soviets have Tank Hunters for that reason).
This Sherman is in fact a better all around tank than anything that UK has.

If M4 will stay in Soviet service is should be more expensive (600MP), cost 4 CPs (Like a Hetzer/Wirblewind) and be on the same side of the tree as all armor call-ins (Just like in Blitz doctrine or old Armor company when Calliopes main gun was still operational - vanilla COH times).

Or just replace It with a Lend-Lease jeep call-in (220MP, 1CP).

I agree with Paciat, this Sherman is quite strong and easy to get. He got good idea with leased Jeep (scout unit), or you could consider leased Truck (10men capacity) - which would be able to move troops fast on battlefield and it would certainly fit into Breakthrough doctrine which should be offensive and fast move based.

wordsmith wrote:
Regarding units:
I believe this wasn't the intention but Guards (6men) costs 340MP and Shock guards (7men+Cover fire) (after upgrade in Armory) costs only 300MP.

An oversight by the coders sadly

Quote
Another unit - Ingenery after Sturm.ing. upgrade in Amrory it is possible to upgrade them with flamethrowers. It works only for non-upgraded Ingenery NOT for Sturmovie Ingenery which I find little odd because this should be Urban Warfare doctrinal only...

These are now two seperate units! Flamethrower is on a weaker support unit, while PPS are on a resilient assault unit. Doctrine allows you to field what is essentially a specialized assault unit with 2 flamers which is of course alot different again than the other two.
Only thing I'd be tempted to change would be to make the Sturmovies a bit more 'combat pure unit' by removing their ability to construct buildings but retaining the repair and razor wire etc...

The sherman is a NEW MODEL not a reskin. It just needs a bit more tweaking to the stats and cost correction(see above it was supposed to cost 620).
A transport vehicle was discussed but we decided against it.

Last edited May 23, 2010 at 11:31 AM by Zerstörer

It would be more clear if normal ingeneers can have only one flamethrower, and urban assault sturmovie can have 2 flamethrower.
I agree there should be 'combat pure unit' like Zerstorer said, but what about give all ingeneers demolition charge in case of satchel charge (and give it to partisan) ? No one answer me about this: what does it sound ?

EDIT: I've noticed that firebase still cost 15 population

Just on the lend-lease sherman is it supposed to be first in the breakthrough tree because mechanics as the first unlock would make more sense

Edit:
-Non-upgraded PTRD teams have the reinforcement description etc of a CW infantry section
-I'll also confirm that firebase is 15 Pop

Last edited May 23, 2010 at 12:55 PM by Raider217

Zerstörer wrote:
These are now two seperate units! Flamethrower is on a weaker support unit, while PPS are on a resilient assault unit. Doctrine allows you to field what is essentially a specialized assault unit with 2 flamers which is of course alot different again than the other two.
Only thing I'd be tempted to change would be to make the Sturmovies a bit more 'combat pure unit' by removing their ability to construct buildings but retaining the repair and razor wire etc...

Ok now it is more clear, I thought it was a bug. However it would change a tactics slightly because Urban doctrine would be less used IMO. What about if Flamethrower in Urban doctrine would be available as upgrade to Strelky or Guards then?

The new Sherman looks awesome and Russia need a 3 CP tank counter. I think it will be a cool unit when it has been balanced.

It seems like the sniper doesn't give as much damage to the Commander as he used to can anyone confirm this? It is hard to tell when it takes 3 shoot to kill him.

Many units has no hotkey and T-70 and T-90 have the same hotkey.

I think that that Strelky Rush might be to powerful.

Like most of patch so far.

There are some things that bother me exept a Sherman ballance bug.

1. All ammo upgrades from armory now cost only half of what they cost earlier. Sure fuel cost was added but ammo is not an important strategic resource anymore. I think that armory ammo costs should be raised to 75% of the prices from 1.04 (+50% of current 1.10 prices). Of course fuel costs should stay as they are.

2. Soviet WSC costs no fuel so its easy to get strelky quickly. Noone will spam constripts anymore to they should have 0 pop (1 pop for NKWD) like they were in 1.04.

3. IS-2 with Strelky support is so easy to get. Only 40+75 fuel (faster than in 1.04) and you can build the heaviest tanks in game. Wehrmacht wont even have Stugs then.

Both Sherman and Heavy tank upgrade need to have higher costs. 1.11 is needed badly.

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SavageWorld wrote:
The new Sherman looks awesome and Russia need a 3 CP tank counter. I think it will be a cool unit when it has been balanced.

It seems like the sniper doesn't give as much damage to the Commander as he used to can anyone confirm this? It is hard to tell when it takes 3 shoot to kill him.

Many units has no hotkey and T-70 and T-90 have the same hotkey.

I think that that Strelky Rush might be to powerful.

Like most of patch so far.

Commisar has KCR and UKs officers heroic armor but much more HP (150!). Im suprised that only 3 shots are needed.

As for the Sherman, sure 1.04 Soviet needed something but that something is not an upgunned medium tank.
A BA-10 (counter to PE ACs and halftracks) would be great.
M-8 armor, 250HP, T-70 gun and 300MP cost and as slow as katiusha.

Now when teching has changed Soviets can allways get tank hunters/ZIS-2 (anyone can get that much fuel) or T-70/SU-85 and then SU-100.

Last edited May 23, 2010 at 2:33 PM by Paciat

Paciat wrote:
There are some things that bother me exept a Sherman ballance bug.

1. All ammo upgrades from armory now cost only half of what they cost earlier. Sure fuel cost was added but ammo is not an important strategic resource anymore. I think that armory ammo costs should be raised to 75% of the prices from 1.04 (+50% of current 1.10 prices). Of course fuel costs should stay as they are.

2. Soviet WSC costs no fuel so its easy to get strelky quickly. Noone will spam constripts anymore to they should have 0 pop (1 pop for NKWD) like they were in 1.04.

3. IS-2 with Strelky support is so easy to get. Only 40+75 fuel (faster than in 1.04) and you can build the heaviest tanks in game. Wehrmacht wont even have Stugs then.

Both Sherman and Heavy tank upgrade need to have higher costs. 1.11 is needed badly.

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SavageWorld wrote:
The new Sherman looks awesome and Russia need a 3 CP tank counter. I think it will be a cool unit when it has been balanced.

It seems like the sniper doesn't give as much damage to the Commander as he used to can anyone confirm this? It is hard to tell when it takes 3 shoot to kill him.

Many units has no hotkey and T-70 and T-90 have the same hotkey.

I think that that Strelky Rush might be to powerful.

Like most of patch so far.

Commisar has KCR and UKs officers heroic armor but much more HP (150!). Im suprised that only 3 shots are needed.

As for the Sherman, sure 1.04 Soviet needed something but that something is not an upgunned medium tank.
A BA-10 (counter to PE ACs and halftracks) would be great.
M-8 armor, 250HP, T-70 gun and 300MP cost and as slow as katiusha.

Now when teching has changed Soviets can allways get tank hunters/ZIS-2 (anyone can get that much fuel) or T-70/SU-85 and then SU-100.

I agree with everything you say even the critic of my own post, but I still think that the Sherman looks to good to throw out.

About the officer, well it used to only take 3 shoot, which was good. But I think it might have been change in this patch.

One way to make the IS-2 come out later would be to require the Medium Range Support upgrade, if the Support Barracks was 20 fuel more expensive it would come out. 40+75+20+40+135 fuel = 210 + extra upgrades.
Compared to panzer 35+50+50+50+80 fuel = 265 + extra upgrades.

A couple of my observations:

1. Lend-lease Sherman. Way too cheap, should come after mechanics in the doc tree, 1 shoots PE halftracks (not 100% sure about this). Also, I don't quite like the concept. Now everybody is going to rush to L-L Sherman, and the most awesome unit in this mod - the T-34 tank rider - will be seldom used. I mean, Eastern front is not about the freaking Shermans running around, it's about the MVP tank of WW2 - T-34!

I have other points, but right now I have to run, I'll post a little bit later :)

Tell me, what's the point of making conscripts ( 200mp 8 pop) if we can make far more powerful strelky ( 250mp 7 pop)? At the beginning of the game spamming conscripts was obvious because they were CHEAP - noone cared about pop but resources. Later conceripst were used as mass distraction. So now there is no use of them in later stages of game.
BTW, nice sherman.

Hi,

It would help if some uploaded a torrent file ...

Regards
funnyme

Now that the support Barracks is only 200 mp I can skip spamming conscipts and spam more powerful Strelky :)
@ Funnyme , do you mean of Coh? Because the mod installer is on the forum somewhere.

SavageWorld wrote:
One way to make the IS-2 come out later would be to require the Medium Range Support upgrade, if the Support Barracks was 20 fuel more expensive it would come out. 40+75+20+40+135 fuel = 210 + extra upgrades.
Compared to panzer 35+50+50+50+80 fuel = 265 + extra upgrades.

The problem with youre IS-2 solution is that you will not have to sacrifice anything while wehrmaht should piospam and build TierIV (no tier I, II, III).

There are more balance bugs:
4. Strelky own PE 3 man squads. Strelky apear too early in the game.
5. T-70 is a PE AC killer just like Stuart/Staghound but its earlier. Soviets can get a SU-85 very fast for AT duties too. Both T-70 and T-90 should cost 10 more Fuel (35) and be as efective vs halstracks/ACs as US M-8/T-17.

I like the fact that you can get OR easily spammable conscript (you can only build the soviet tent) OR more reliable strelky.

If you want to spam cheap but crap infantry, take conscript.
If you want to have more powerful infantry, you can get SSB which cost 200MP and time: you have less infantry and the ennemy have more time to cap and secure territories.

But I agree that conscript should take 1 or 0 pop.
And strelky should have an higher construction time.

Paciat wrote:
The problem with youre IS-2 solution is that you will not have to sacrifice anything while wehrmaht should piospam and build TierIV (no tier I, II, III).

And the fuel you start with to build tier 1 for 25 fuel you can have tier 2 as well. I don't think it can solve the problem but it can be a part of the solution, it is dangerous to make to big changes to the game I know that it is hard to imagine but we might end up with USSR being UP.
We could properly make the tank hall cost 50 fuel and the Heavy tank upgrade cost a 100 so the total cost would be 245 fuel. I would properly still be a little OP but you might be able to counter it. alternatively you could have the heavy tank upgrade cost 150 fuel so it would cost 225 fuel to get it, but I fear that it would be too much of a gamble to go for it.

Red_Stinger wrote:
I like the fact that you can get OR easily spammable conscript (you can only build the soviet tent) OR more reliable strelky.

If you want to spam cheap but crap infantry, take conscript.
If you want to have more powerful infantry, you can get SSB which cost 200MP and time: you have less infantry and the enemy have more time to cap and secure territories.

As it is now I don't think it is a fair trade off. Going Strelky is better, the extra build time is not a big deal, you start the game with a MP advantage. In addition it is much easier to go over to middle game, because you have the Support Barrack.

For some reason my Sherman Spawns without a turret, idk if its a problem with the mod or if its on my end

ppsh-41 wrote:
For some reason my Sherman Spawns without a turret, idk if its a problem with the mod or if its on my end

http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=3493.0

It's a bug on lower graphics, it's being investigated.

thanks for this new patch guys. the updater seems to be working again now (it would always say it couldn't retrieve latest version in the old one for a while.) will give it a play now  ;D

USSR59351 wrote:
When I call in the Sherman, it's turret is completely invisible. Anybody know how to fix that?

Either 1. Read the thread in Bugs & Tech Support
or 2. Wait for next patch

When my game crashes i get an error  saying: "No dump file". Is that anything to do with my end or is it the mod doing that?

Also i had a very interesting encounter with a Purple Tank CO when i called in my Shermans. He was sitting inside my tank but all purple, i play on a near maximum graphics if that might be the cause a problem

Patch does seem to be an improvement.

I appreciate that the commisar artillery has a requirement now.  I think I would prefer it came later than the sub machine gun(not sure if this is correct) upgrade on the squad though.  It's still really early artillery that can drastically impact the early game, and thus the rest of the game in my opinion.  I like one uber squad amongst all the crapy conscripts early(with the weapon upgrade) over the artillery power, but I haven't played this enough to really comment. 

The fuel in the upgrades was definitely an improvement, and unit unlocks are appreciated also, for more diverse strategy options. 

The Sherman does concern me.  It looks great, and it doesn't seem to be the infantry murderer that the american sherman is.  I really won't comment on its balance, though it does seem so far, to be really powerful for this early in the game.  My bigger concern is that it is kind of an iconic american faction unit, and it is just soo easy to build in mass in the current balance for russians.  I would personally suggest a ridiculously long timer on it to reflect the rarity...it is lend lease...that may allay other concerns as well, about how early it can come out...etc.  Also, I'm not sure if you changed up tanks, but I thought it was a nice approach to make the tank crews "greenness" the weakness of early russian armor, and maybe that would be an appropriate approach to balancing the sherman as well.

Raider217 wrote:
Sorry to already be dishing out bugs but a problem ive recieved with breakthrough stategy I don't know if anyone else will have got this but i went sherman, mechanics, animal killer, motivating speech then tank riders and I was then stuck on 3 CP for the rest of the game... no way of getting IL-2 sturmivoks??? also the sherman comes to early and is easy to spam :( like Chancellor has said

I got a very similar problem. only difference is i got stuck at 4 and i went down the "motivating speech" path first.

I'm disappointed.

We've waited this long for a patch, and what we end up with is an update which actually WORSENS the balance in favor of the soviets with the sherman.

After this long I was expecting IMPROVEMENT, not a worsening of the balance. Along with the multitude of crashes and errors.

BDNeon wrote:
I'm disappointed.

We've waited this long for a patch, and what we end up with is an update which actually WORSENS the balance in favor of the soviets with the sherman.

After this long I was expecting IMPROVEMENT, not a worsening of the balance. Along with the multitude of crashes and errors.

Hay man, you should not complain, I can tell u from experience that it takes a long time and a lot of people to make a mod, but more importantly, it takes ever longer to make a balanced mod. How did u expect The EF team to balance a mod that is still as new and unfinished as EF? I like that they added the sherman, it makes perfect historical sense. now that they have feedback they can balance the sherman. But the expect it to be balance right off the bat it foolish. Even the original COH was not balanced when it was first released. I say Good job to the developers and keep up the good work. I understand how much time and effort you have had to put in just to get the mod up to this point, and i want to let you know that i appreciate it.

@BDNeon
If you dont like the way they are doing their hobby, you could just reinstall EF 1.04 and wait for the hotfix, or join to EF team to help them. If you just go and rant nothing is going to happen, at least we can help them to detect bugs and glitches. Remember that they aren't selling EF, so you are encouraged to not complain :D.

Last edited May 24, 2010 at 1:26 AM by blackbishop

My biggest complaint:

Crashes too much.

BDNeon is right.  This is a very creative mod with excellent artwork, faction design, and coding.  But how you can take four months to release a patch with some very obvious and very serious problems is beyond me.  The sherman is just game breakingly unbalanced.  The strelks are also game breakingly unbalanced.  These issues they should have been able to forsee LONG in advance.  480mp for a full fledged MBT is a bad joke and it should be obvious that strelks can be gotten almost instantly.  The crash bugs not showing up in testing before release?  What do you guys have a beta tester team for?  You guys have done a lot of hard work but bugs that should have never made it in any release have driven away most CoH players.  Balance takes a while for less obvious problems.  The sherman is an obvious problem that anyone should have been able to spot if they played the game ONCE before release.  The crash bugs should have happened on SOMEONE's machine before release.  I am willing to bet that a patch for these game breaking balance problems won't be out for a week at least.  It takes a long time to build an engine, flesh out concepts, and model/skin/map.  It shouldn't take thirty minutes to change game files to fix blatant balance issues.

I'm just saying I'm disappointed, that's all. I didn't say it was the devs fault, or that I think I could do better.

I'm merely stating that after waiting this long for a patch, I was expecting improved balance instead of worsened balance. I'd be a bit less harsh if the patch had been out a lot earlier then it was.

BDNeon wrote:
I'm just saying I'm disappointed, that's all. I didn't say it was the devs fault, or that I think I could do better.

I'm merely stating that after waiting this long for a patch, I was expecting improved balance instead of worsened balance. I'd be a bit less harsh if the patch had been out a lot earlier then it was.

Don't worry, it's just a springboard for good things to come.

maybe i'm insane or something but i have been enjoying this patch so far.

The Sherman was one of the last things we added, so it didn't receive as much playtesting as the other features. We have taken in to account all the major points on this thread and will make the appropriate changes as we see fit. This patch will be a minor hotfix (and we have our beautiful new update system) so it won't take 4 months again.

No one will make a wise feedback because game crashes force players to stay away from EF.

So...until next patch will come,don't take too serious many comments because many of them are just superficial...

nbeerbower wrote:
My biggest complaint:

Crashes too much.

I second this. It's crashed in normal Coh maps as well as the maps that came with the mod. Oddly enough it didn't crash on Zhytomer map for me, about the only one it didn't it seems. A problem with staying connected to Relic?

I've found recently an other bug:

I was playing Werh on Leningrad over AI and I saw an SU-85 named "SU-76".

Does it mean that SU-76 will be implemented?  :) :)

xenotype wrote:
What do you guys have a beta tester team for?  You guys have done a lot of hard work but bugs that should have never made it in any release have driven away most CoH players.  Balance takes a while for less obvious problems.  The sherman is an obvious problem that anyone should have been able to spot if they played the game ONCE before release.  The crash bugs should have happened on SOMEONE's machine before release.

For me its kinda strange too its must have been beta tested the patch? wich concerns me because either your beta testers are totaly incompetent, or the patch was never tested wich i doubt.

Yea...really...i also wonder what they tested before release..?...

Maybe something was tested,but i refuse to think about final material from the patch to be tested ONCE before release.

I've played a few matches with my friend, we didn't had any problems. No crashes just the Sherman bug, but there is a soluton for than. What really boters the IL2 Sturmovik ability is way OP. You click on it and "You're winner". Seariously, without line of sight the planes destroyed all of my opponents defenses, AT guns, everithing. He said, that that is the God of war abilty, not the other. And it don't appear the range of the ability on the minimap, so that should be code this to the game too. Like if you use the sector artillery doctrinal abiliti, that sector on the minimap changes colour, or in PE's tank hunter planes.
Anyways, good job with the mod, I rather payed for it than the Tales of Valor.  ;)

First off devs you never seem to stop inspiraring me with the incredible work you do. Awesome patch so much content relic could even learn from you.

Anyway why is everybody complaining about the strelky upgrade? I think what everybody is forgetting is that when you upgrade strelky it only effects NEW ones so those four squads u built dont benifit at all. I agree that early strelky  were good in the last few games i played of 1.10 but they can still be countered by good mg micro, fast tech to tier 2 or 3 and if you rely have trouble ftfl works against those fire up charges.

Well obviously the Sherman is the biggest problem i think...but the model and skin of that tank just looks too good to throw it away. I think that it should be a reward unit...say for the Tank riders...many of you guys have complained about Tank riders, so you could switch to this lend-lease Sherman and still you will be able to build Soviet iconic T-34s from Tank Hall. That would be a possible solution, because youll need 4 CPs to call them (same as PEs Hetzer). Another thing is that mechanics should have their repair ability back. I mean look, Axis has PE and they have bergetiger, so Allies should have Soviets with mechanics...its even. I really liked that ability in 1.04, maybe it needed little tweaking but it was fine. Other than that why should i call those mechanics in the first place? When i play as PE i am building bergetiger only to repair destroyed tanks...so it was with mechanics...they dont need to build tank barricades or lay mines...ingenery can do that, they just need to repair those wrecks!

But i dont want to complain...ill say this patch is overall a good step because of changes in Tank Hall and WSC, soviets finally have some teching. It just needs some tweaking and bugs and crashes fixed.

xenotype wrote:
What do you guys have a beta tester team for?  You guys have done a lot of hard work but bugs that should have never made it in any release have driven away most CoH players.  Balance takes a while for less obvious problems.  The sherman is an obvious problem that anyone should have been able to spot if they played the game ONCE before release.  The crash bugs should have happened on SOMEONE's machine before release.

What makes you think we have a beta testing team? We normally get a few devs together and see if we find any obvious bugs.

Actually none of us had a crash during the play test of 1.10, and Sherman... That's none really refelected over, probably since the balance guy isn't there.

You got to remember our time is very limited, and it's a lot easier for the community to find bugs then it's for us (harder to find bugs in things you make!).

Strayker wrote:
they dont need to build tank barricades or lay mines...ingenery can do that, they just need to repair those wrecks!

ingey can't build mines as of 1.10 patch. only mech and tank hunters. Also mech repairs fast as hell, while ingey are pretty slow repairers.

Last edited May 24, 2010 at 11:15 AM by Rizz