OFFICIAL POLL: Removing the original factions plus adding in retreat and vet

I'll quote what I said on RelicNews on 18/04 -

[quote=BurroDiablo]Relics community manager said they would 'investigate (our problems) in the future', we have set up a prioritized list for them, so any faction removal may only be temporary if Relic kindly fix our Recrew/Automatch/Ranking issues.[/quote]

WartyX wrote:
If we do decide to link the Retreat Ability with Veterancy, it will be the 1st Vet which unlocks.

That is a great idea!  :D

I just played BotB mod, and I noticed it's only 1 faction on each side (latest version for 2.601). So if you guys decide to remove Brits, I would also highly encourage removing the Americans. I just figure if you're going to remove one of them you might as well get rid of both...

I'm all for including ret & vet (and removal of Brits), but connecting retreat with 1 vet sounds kinda stupid to me.

I've also been playing botb mod, and one of the things I liked was how you can plant the flag and retreat your units to the flag (like captain with Brits). Maybe you could do this with the Soviets.

Also, I think that in the end (if relic doesn't help), you'll be forced to remove OF factions if you really want to see this mod being played competitevely online. Because competitive online play ain't gonna happen without re-crew, automatch and rankings, at least imo.

How long will this poll be open?

130 members voted to date

We'll close it on Sunday, April 25, 2010, 01:55:10 PM

Last edited April 21, 2010 at 9:55 PM by BurroDiablo

I might add, if we remove BRITISH and replace them with SOVIETS -> to play SOVIETS you will be required to own either OPPOSING FRONTS or TALES OF VALOR.

So you have to remove all factions and use the first coh as a basic for the mod. Than you have only 2 factions, ostheer and soviets, but everybody can play it

Not true.  There some people with only OF who can only play as the Brits and the PE.  So modding the original only would stop those people from playing.  (Not me, I have only original)

Oh,that would suck for people who only have the first COH to not play the EF just because people want to recrew and you had to remove the British and PE so the soviet players can recrew their weapons. I don't see why everyone wants to recrew their weapons. I don't like the AT guns or the mortars, so i don't use them.

Panzer4life wrote:
I don't see why everyone wants to recrew their weapons. I don't like the AT guns or the mortars, so i don't use them.

Priceless...

From now until the end of the poll (26th April), you can remove your current vote (eg. if you vote wrong) change vote again.

Also changed the text of the options to make it clearer.

Hi,

Nearly 40% have voted for the removal of the factions ,around 55% for keeping them & 5% on the bridge, Both have their point of veiw .....

Was wondering, How would the Dev team strike a balance with this Varied opinion ?..,Also , Would like to know how important is ranking and online play in the decision making ...

Regards
Funnyme

Last edited April 22, 2010 at 5:45 PM by funnyme

:) in one of my first comments to this topic I predicted this would be tough one. 40% vs 55% looks like more players  wants to keep Relic factions but you have to consider one fact too: participating on this forum and still playing the EF the small community of players who remained are quite ok with things how they are. Most of the players who left, left because they wanted something which EF hadn't at that time and it wasn't keeping the Relic factions - bacuse the mod had them. It was other things which were reasons to left... and most of that players continue to play CoH and do not go here on forum regularly to check such important polls like this one.

The poll won't solely decide anything. A large number of factors will govern our final decision. At the end of the day, beyond the discussion and the voting, it boils down to the Lead Developers to make decisions on such major ideas as removing entire factions. Hopefully we won't ever need to reach such drastic conclusions if our recent discussions with certain people amount to anything.

I just feel the need to add that this mod does not exactly have a huge community, so I question the wisdom of any actions that may potentially divide that community...

We've had tens of thousands of downloads and 750 people logging on the day of our release and we crashed relics servers... I'd say that's pretty big community which we're aiming to get back with all the changes as we did let them down at that point.

Poll ends in few ours. 140 voted till now.

Did your (Devs) expections comply with the results?

78 votes for keeping the relic factions.
94 votes for adding retreat and veterancy.
53 votes for removing the relic factions.
37 votes for not adding retreat and veterancy.

I voted:
;) Yes) I agree with removing the Relic factions, as well as adding vet and retreat
This mod is so good, I feel it deserves no restrictions.

Other then the restrictions of which armies you can play?

my two cents

I'm fine with the way things are. I don't want brits or PE removed. I like the way soviets play its fun and interesting.

BDNeon wrote:
78 votes for keeping the relic factions.
94 votes for adding retreat and veterancy.
53 votes for removing the relic factions.
37 votes for not adding retreat and veterancy.

nice.....lie?

ford_prefect wrote:

BDNeon wrote:
78 votes for keeping the relic factions.
94 votes for adding retreat and veterancy.
53 votes for removing the relic factions.
37 votes for not adding retreat and veterancy.

nice.....lie?

Not a lie, he did his math differently.

He added up the ones that say "Keep Relic Factions" (Total of 2)

Then did the same for the others ;)

Right. This poll was a little convoluted since it clustered all the options into pairs, so I simplified it. How many votes to keep the factions, how many not to, and so on.

It provides a clearer picture of the results. Roughly 2/3 of the people who voted for factions voted to keep them, so keeping factions is the winner in that part of the poll. As for retreat and veterancy, a very large majority voted to add them, 4/5.

These results are echoed by option 4, which recieved the most votes out of the entire poll.

The people have spoken. The poll says add retreat and veterancy but keep existing factions.

Last edited April 29, 2010 at 5:47 AM by BDNeon

A very good analysis of the stats. Hectic discussion in the private developer forums ensues...

10 dollar says it's all like: "This could take months"
"I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE PEOPLE"

"THE NEXT PATCH MAY BE YEARS FROM NOW"

"WE GOT CRICKETS!!!"

*All other mods*
"...?"

*A cricket is on the wall.*

XD

Already voted, but regarding retreat: would it be practical to allow it only for later-tier units?

Sure, Order No. 227 was in effect the first year of the war, but as the Soviets picked up momentum the whole "no retreat" thing was quietly dropped. So might it make sense that early squads (i.e., vanilla Conscripts, Ingenery, the Command Squad) can't retreat until the later-tier units are unlocked? After that anyone can retreat. I like the no-retreat thing early on as it really gives a different flavor for the Sovs, but later in the battle it starts hurting. If you want a justification you can say that tiering up represents Zhukov and the rest of the generals taking effective control instead of Moscow.

Soldier: "Comrade Commisar, we cannot punch through this defensive line!"

Commisar: "Nonsense Comrade, we are under strict orders not to retreat!"

Soldier: "But do the orders say anything about 'advancing backwards'?"

Commisar: "... ALL UNITS ADVANCE BACKWARDS!"

lol.

I'd be happy with strelky gaining the ability to retreat. Just leave conscripts as they are. Guards don't really need retreat since they're immune to suppression.

Jack Bauer never retreats...He just shoots in the other direction.

(For all die hard 24 fans out there ;))

oh my god , giving the russians retreat is  terrible idea! why remove it ? the recrewing maybe yeah thats understandable, but the russians are all " CHARGE YEAHHHHH " and didnt retreat in most cases , i think that is unique shouldnt be taken away.



And on that though , i do think Russians should be able to recrew , it would work if sayyy , the gaurds and command squad can recrew , or something like that , i mean the gaurds can already pick up axis weapons cant they? It isnt neccessary for veterancy either , buying the upgrades is far better.

Last edited April 30, 2010 at 11:01 AM by Fementedbeancurd

Picking up weapons and recrewing weapons are two different things entirely from a coding pov. All units can pick up weapons, you can give conscripts Shrecks and LMG42's if you so wish.

Soviets would be balanced to incorporate retreat, its a core game element that some people cannot bare to be without, I haven't exactly missed it but then my fighting style is quite sloppy.
Right now, the AI in 1.05 can retreat (its a bug brought on by the Prop-war 'fix') and they are no more difficult to fight aginst with retreat than they are without retreat... actually, the fact the Soviets are basically FORCED to fight to the death is what made them a pain in the ass to fight against in the first place

Hey, what will the Soviets also get, since you are adding retreat? And What makes everyone think it will bring all the old fans back?

I think that the theme is not only about the retreat of the Soviet Union
but what ostheer and removing the original factions
How about remove the Americans and the Wehrmacht, and instead add them to the Soviet Union and ostheer but assuring leaving the British and Panzer Elite

Panzer4life wrote:
And What makes everyone think it will bring all the old fans back?

I can tell you what it would bring back if we didn't change things...nothing.
The more you fix something more likely it to be liked by the wider audience that rejected it due to these flaws in the first place.

I don't think you should retreat, but if you do choose to, you have to get rid of a few things. No, alot of things. First of all theres like, I think, 5-9 things (depending on doctine) that makes the sovs fire up and deny suppression. Your going to have to put that down to 2-3 things because then they would all be useless. Also you  have to rise the  cost because before the sovs could retreat, it was a very low chance to get the conscripts back to the base. But now since they run like hell to the base, you have a way higher chance and people are going to get a great fighing force in less then 30 seconds.

I could be wrong, lets see how it turns out.

Last edited April 30, 2010 at 7:15 PM by Seeme

we won't just add reterat and vet and leave everything else as is...of course not! We'll be making (or should I say unmaking) alot of stuff we put in place just so we can make the no retreat sort of viable...

QuoteThe people have spoken. The poll says add retreat and veterancy but keep existing factions.

Topic Closed.




Not to mention the majority of discussions in this part of the forum are completely and utterly outdated, repeating the existence of long lost issues and balance instabilities.
Posting about balance problems in 1.04 days before the release of 1.05 is nothing more than a waste of your own time.

P.S. This is targeted at no one in particular and is simply my own opinion.