OFFICIAL POLL: Removing the original factions plus adding in retreat and vet

Hi,

Aotomatch  would spice up things ..., Game Compitions,Rakings etc .., That is what a player would like to see .

Think the Decision making could be left to the team ...Simple as it is , Why have a Work around when you have a solution in hand .

It will be nice to see the Outpost concept done away with , I think it would make the game play more fuild ....

Regards
funnyme

Is it possible to make it that instead of recrewing you'll salvage the weapon? Like a mg42 HMG would give your squad a handheld mg42 lmg +manpower? Mortar: lob mortar shells by hand, or rifle nade +MP. AT: pak gives you panzershreck, US gives you bazooka. I would totaly prefer this if it's possible.

nbeerbower wrote:

But, seriously we need to have some community-organized letter/petition to Relic.

I kinda agree on that

It would be nice if we could make some big community petition or something to relic

Regarding the return of the RETREAT BUTTON to make propaganda work, I still think that my solution fits the bill while still maintaining the NO RETREAT policy. from my post before:

QuoteHaving the retreat button removed to represent the NO RETREAT policy is (IMO) the wrong way to go about it. I suggested that Soviet infantry should still have the retreat button, but should they retreat then they will automatically be considered as Germans (in AI terms) by Soviet and probably other allied units for as long as they are in retreat mode i.e. have that big exclamation point over their heads. The retreating units will automatically be fired upon by Soviet and other allied units (including base defenses) that they cross. If by some miracle they do make it back to the HQ then Soviet players can re-enforce them.

I believe it necessary to actually depict the shooting of retreating units as it would be more realistic and historically accurate rather than taking the shortcut and just removing the retreat button. To my understanding you have in your team a really top notch roster of members, I'm sure someone could make the SCAR code to make this work...

ford_prefect wrote:
CAN WE STOP USING BOLD

oh my goodness guys it looks like a couple of seven year olds yelling at one another. I know I know your gonna say "that's the title idiot" but listen when you put SOMETHING IN BOLD it looks more violent to readers.

I thought that there is difference using bold text or CAPITALS, first is used to mark main ideas so they don't get lost in the text and second is considered as yelling thus unpolite... ;)

sovietwarmachine wrote:
wordsmith i like the ostheer you made but the fuel loss is kind of harsh espesialy in 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4 maches but other than that great job

Thank you! but please this is not the right topic, please post this to related article and following discussion :) there I can answer. Btw I have some new idea about Ostheer but I just need a time to think it through and prepare it.

GriffinZ wrote:
Is it possible to make it that instead of recrewing you'll salvage the weapon? Like a mg42 HMG would give your squad a handheld mg42 lmg +manpower? Mortar: lob mortar shells by hand, or rifle nade +MP. AT: pak gives you panzershreck, US gives you bazooka. I would totaly prefer this if it's possible.

I like this idea, or it could simple be possible to salvage only for resources. One way or another this could be acceptable compromise.

Its kinda sad that Relic dosent even bother to realease a patch that could make the game more "mod freindly"...

shame on you relic slackers!

I would vote to try it out first, then make a decision. Has the EF team tried removing a faction and all ther other proposed changes and see what happens? I mean its sort of pointles to vote and then realize it couldn't be done in the first place, that sort of thing.

The only real gripe I have with EF now are balancing tweaks for Russia and the fact that they can't recrew their own weapons. They can pick up small arms lying around though.

Well I started a thread asking Relic for action on the Company of Heroes forums.

Register and post, maybe it'll grab their attention. I know that admins that report directly to Relic do take a heavy interest on what people say there.

http://community.companyofheroes.com/forums

BDNeon wrote:
Well I started a thread asking Relic for action on the Company of Heroes forums.

Register and post, maybe it'll grab their attention. I know that admins that report directly to Relic do take a heavy interest on what people say there.

http://community.companyofheroes.com/forums

One of our Coders knows the Relic community manager, its him we try and get our pleadings through. We try not to do it too much otherwise they will just get tired and keep ignoring us... being a thorn in Relics side is not the way to go.
However, enough voices from the community pointed in their direction (not hostile, we don't want that) may make them hear us.

Yeah, if the problem can be fixed with a patch from Relic's end of the deal, a hate mongering group of users of this mod would make the Eastern front have less support than it could have.

But if the Commonwealth and the PE have to be removed, then fine. i rather see them remain (i voted for the wrong choice, i meant the one below it), but if Relic continues to ignore this situation, then the only option is to remove the Commonwealth and the PE until they come to help.

EF team made a hell of a job just getting this far with this mod. But some people have to understand that they can`t do everything on their own.
We would all be happy to have smooth game with ranking system and no bugs. But that simply isn`t the case.
Even if some aspects of the Soviets came more as a technical necessity, they really left their mark on the whole faction.

No retreat - no faction has it, it`s dynamic and makes you think where you send your troops, besides, Soviet inf. dies pretty fast, and most of the time it simply doesn't pay-of retreating them.

No re-crew - to quote Major Danko: Our honorable soldiers would never pickup axis heavy weapons to use them! - again, it brings a completely new approach to battle and strategy.

Veterancy - I don`t know why people like to duplicate play styles so much?- Vet system is original and well balanced, if you want to rank up your soldiers, you have 3 other factions to do so.

EF team made a fantastic job, using limitations to their advantage, and made a very different and fun to play faction, and even if Relic would fix all this problems, changing Soviets to "match" the US or Brits would be nonsense, it would trigger the change of whole faction-structure along with the whole new balance, and loose much of it`s potential.

The main problem here are not the Soviets - but the Ostheer. My suggestion to our EF comrades would be - do what you feel is right.
This mod will never die, it`s just to good. And what ever you choose to do, it can be fixed or adopted later.
Personally, I would`nt mind having an Axis faction that fights to the last, no surrender - no retreat. After all, Eastern Front was not just a clash of armies - but ideology`s - where both sides fought to extinction, and that just might be the mark of this mod. Heavy weapons were never left - rather destroyed (this was especially true for the Germans), I believe this approach is worth exploring, even if we would have to renounce some things we love to use in game - we would gain much more.

Capt. wrote:
The main problem here are not the Soviets - but the Ostheer. My suggestion to our EF comrades would be - do what you feel is right.

The easiest way to deal with no recrew with Ostheer is to not give them recrewable weapons!
No heavy MG, just LMG squads (it would work like US BARs)
No AT guns (maybe 7,5cm AT emplacements - UK emplacements ralelly get decrewed). This icludes 88s.
No mortars, a halftrack could have a mortar or a 150mm nebel upgrade (weaker than walking stuka).
No howitzers, just doctrinal mobile medium arti. (Wespe)

Quote
Personally, I would`nt mind having an Axis faction that fights to the last, no surrender - no retreat. After all, Eastern Front was not just a clash of armies - but ideology`s - where both sides fought to extinction, and that just might be the mark of this mod. Heavy weapons were never left - rather destroyed (this was especially true for the Germans)

Is no vet and no retreat also a must have COH engine bug?
I allways thouth that ist becouse Devs wanted it that way.

Anyway Germans made some good tactical withdraws in N. Africa, Italy, France but the Eastern Front was a different story.

No Vet and No Retreat was a design decision, it's not like the Recrew bug. These could be reimplemented quite easily although we'd obviously want to make them stylised to match the Soviets.

If that were true, we wouldn't be having  threads like 'is the mod dead? No one is playing online' etc. And these where not exaggerations for anyone who logs on can see that.

99% of the first two weeks feedback and balance bugs(and we are talking about many hundered of these bombarding us !!) were about not being able to re-crew/retreat/prop war...then ranking,vet ...couple dwith the bad balance (which of couse some people funnily enough liked!)

The truth of the matter is that if the majority of people did like it we would be having loads of regular online gaming and of course bucket loads of good replays both here and in GR showing some nice competitive play. But that's not the case.

Being unable to re-crew is an engine limitation which we begged Relic to fix. But this isn't going to happen. If they had fixed it we would have added it imediatelly without any debate whatsoever.

Similarly with prop war, I totally fail to see why anyone would be ok with this as it practically takes away the Terror doctrine from the game. The only way I can see someone being ok with this is...if they're comp stomping against WH all they time and love the fact that their blob can't be proped.-This in terms means an unfixable bad balance issue, yet some would be ok with that indicating balance is not on their mind.

As a 6th faction Ostheer will suffer from the same issues. Add to that the fact that balancing two new flawed factions with 4 others the chances of having any semblance of decent balance is highly unlikely.

There is NO existing veterancy for infantry or vehicles.  The infantry has upgrades much like the rifles get stickies/nades of brits /WH getbrens/lmg etc. That ain't vet. Its like saying, you research nades so your rifles become vet1, you research stickies and they become vet2, then you research bars and they're vet3.
NO. Weapon upgrades and veterancy are TWO SEPERATE functions in the game

Interesting response from Thunder (Relic's community manager), over at the official Company of Heroes Community:

QuoteI don't think it's fair to say that the mod is dying or that it's dying because Russian squads can't recrew weapons or whatnot.

We've helped out the EF guys in the past and will continue listen to their team, they're good guys and talented people.

As much as I appreciate support from Thuinder, it doesn't change what people have been posting(aka is the mod deat etc) nor the fact that people ain't playing it online( and I do log on every other night on different times through the day to check).

And that kinda hints that since they're not considered big problems 'by yours trully' its unlikely that we'd see a patch to accomodate these to that effect. Could I be wrong about this? Maybe....maybe not
The fact remains untill such 'solutions' present themselves from relic, we have to get them solved another way

The fact remains that he claims that Relic will continue to listen to us. With enough community support (and help from other mods), we could probably get a good number of things fixed.

Perhaps Thunder's response will give the community
the chance to start a petition for implement recrewing and ranked matches with mod factions.

I think this a point we should try;
A community petition for helping the modding community!

Lord Rommel

That's all well and good, when/if that time comes we can take advantage of the fixed issues and improve things further.(as per the response its not like they're unaware of these..)

But we can't just sit and pray for another couple of years while they make up their minds.
Its about fixing things with what is now available to us, so we won't hit bottom and then have to try and crawl all the way back up

Last edited April 14, 2010 at 7:20 PM by Zerstörer

I would take that gesture of thunders seriously and send relic an elaborate letter explaining that the best fix would be to give moders the ability to have more than 4 fully functional factions.

You're right we can't sit back and wait for Relic. Our best idea now is to lightly implement retreat and vet into the Soviets, forget recrewing for now. Recrewing should only become an issue when the Ostheer are ready to be released then we can consider removing the Brits and PE. For now we should add what we can with the Soviets, and if Relic doesn't come around by the time the Ostheer are out about despite our pleading - then we do something drastic like remove OF factions.

would it be possible to take PE and UK out, but wehrmacht and americans completely revise again?
I mean that each PE and the UK are involved on a doctrine.
Logically, then, the choice of units strong doctrinal be subject.
So I would prefer this compromise as there will not really disappear something

I partly agree with these changes. But I would suggest another approach by solving issues with the EF version 1.04 (still crashing far too often - specially in multiplayer mode). ONLY when the game runs without problems, you should introduce OH and also the a.m. changes. I rather see Relic's non-response as a wait-and-see tactic because they know for sure what kind of problems there are with the current version of EF. Also, you gotta understand, that Relic is a business and needs to make money. Does anybody have a idea whether they are working on an addition for the CoH game? I would think so, because it makes sense. So, please concentrate on perfecting EF as a--playable-- version, so it does not crash anymore. Thanks.

How can this mod be dead if it only today had 1,565 visits on moddb and is ranked nr 4 of 11,591?!

In any case, EF will have one more BIG chance once Ostheer is released. I expect a new record in number of players on coh server once this happens. By then you have enough time to solve the re-crewing issue.

I'm sure that you, the EF team, will know how to capitalize on the opportunities offered by the release of the Ostheer faction!

I keep my fingers crossed that Relic will one day find the time to help, but Gencrusher's right, they are business and we shouldn't expect them to jump through hoops just to please us.
Thunders post is good news though... although listening doesn't fix problems, it's start... certainly more than most mod teams get ;)

Zerstörer wrote:
That's all well and good, when/if that time comes we can take advantage of the fixed issues and improve things further.(as per the response its not like they're unaware of these..)

But we can't just sit and pray for another couple of years while they make up their minds.
Its about fixing things with what is now available to us, so we won't hit bottom and then have to try and crawl all the way back up

Think anyone will hold the team back of doing something or program "an other solution".
But a letter wont change the situation for the worse  ;)

I voted for removing the relic factions, primaraly because I think being able to play automacth would give new life to the mode with is needed it. In addition all the Brits haters would begin to play the mode and their is like a million of them.
The downside is that you can't play Pe vs Russia.

Is it possible to make a version where you have Brit and PE + Russia? If it is than you could have all possible macth-ups with three versions of the game.

tl;dr awesome idea go for it

SavageWorld wrote:
I voted for removing the relic factions, primaraly because I think being able to play automacth would give new life to the mode with is needed it. In addition all the Brits haters would begin to play the mode and their is like a million of them.
The downside is that you can't play Pe vs Russia.

Is it possible to make a version where you have Brit and PE + Russia? If it is than you could have all possible macth-ups with three versions of the game.

tl;dr awesome idea go for it

Until we implement Ostheer fully, the matchup will be US/Soviets/PE/WH

There is a possibility we might be able to do it so you choose EF vs COH or EF vs OF.

Recrewing weapons and retreating is a bad trade off, if it cost 2 whole factions.  Learn to use to other armies, instead of doing the same old thing over and over, just because it's easy.

I came from GR.org after reading a post there asking people's opinions.

The basic gist of most of the replies there was that Brits and PE are basically broken for different reasons in comparison to US and Wehr factions, so why even ask about replacing them to get the functionality the dev team wants from the factions.  (Seriously... read the replies there, I'm not exaggerating.)

Might I suggest making a true poll there, as there is a large skilled playerbase there mostly aware of the design and balance issues that exist in the current version of CoH, but they might not be motivated enough to come here and register to vote...

Seriously, if the options are full functionality + removal of brits vs some functionality and still having brits the choice is obvious.  Brits are broken anyway, removing them would be a blessing to the game. 

Also, for the Ostheer I understand that it might be very important to have recrewing available.  Therefore since it's probably going to be necessary to replace factions anyway you might as well start now.

Ok, i don't think Relic will help out this mod for one reason; they are a company. if they can make a buck making a game instead of helping a mod, they will go for the game. A company needs to have money flowing in order to stay afloat, especially in times like these. So, that is that.

on the idea that you could choose whether you want to play EF-COH or Ef-OF, i liked the idea. It allows the players to play how they want. honestly, i play the Ef-COH just because i like the wher/Us better than i do the PE/British.

This mod is in no way dead, like said above its got the 4th largest amounts of hits on Moddb, surely that speaks about the mod more than the people who just complain and spout rubbish, the same with any mod.

I honestly think that if you put a slow trickle balance tweaks, bugfixes, reward units and Ostheer teasers out it would get people playing again. Especially with another big balanced release for the Ost (I know it wasn't your guys fault last time).

Then again I realise that the majority of the hardcore CoH community aren't going to be happy unless they get the OF factions removed, automatch back and the oh so precious ranking.

Losing two factions, even for recrewing, is not worth it to me, although clearly there is a good deal of support for it.

Also having versions of Vanilla CoH, EF-CoH and EF-OF would possibly split the player base even more than it is now.

Ugggh important descisions  :-\

The mod isn't dead in that we, the modders, are still here fighting for it to get the interest back.

I logged online against last night and guess how many games of EF were on....same as yesterday and most of the week...aka none.

We were rank 11, now 8 in moddb. That shows a certain interest still exists thankfully, but people are still not playing it. They're waiting for things to get fixed and that's what we're trying to do.
A quick look on the Announcements Section and the Eastern Front release threads and patches and you'll notice how many people have been asking for the fixes we're putting up the poll for.

BurroDiablo wrote:
... our Lead Developer ...

Quote
...  our old Lead Developer ...

Yeah, this easy.
-
(sarcasm on)
Sorry folks but this isn´t the fault of the team because our old Lead Developer was a blockhead and we couldn´t argue at him that there are still too many open issues left.
(sarcasm off)
-
You cannot imagine how often I have heard such excuses in real life. It is absolutely unnecessary to know anything about your team to understand that you are facing problems which might be caused by your old lead developer.
Why don´t you concentrate on the amazing work you´ve already done and find a way out of this mess instead of making (imo) another mistake? If you will change the non existing vet system and recrewing function to the soviets all the claims about balance and all the early problems you dealt with until now will start over again. The soviets are fine working as they are.

This is why I said your thoughts are moving in the wrong direction.

Quote
What Philosophy? Being tied down to some unwritten rule that holds back progress? We implemented a new faction, bravo, but we also encountered the problems that come with that. You think recrewing would be out if there wasn't a bug? Of course it wouldn't.

To be honest - an unwritten rule is the same as Philosophy and your unwritten rule/philosophy was to implement a new faction without any changings to the original CoH.
You should be proud instead of worsen you. You did an awesome work and all I wanted to say is that you only have to improve some intricacies of your mod. This is what relic does over years now.
I really do not understand why you are saying the progress is hold back. EF is fully playable and most of us enjoy playing your mod. But if you read between the lines you might gain problems with your Ostheer concepts. Maybe the Ostheer was/is designed whith recrewing and vet abilities but you should be (and I guess you are) intelligent enough to know that relic won´t help you as much as you desire so there has to be a plan B, or not?
Changing the original and unique concept by splitting it from from original CoH and remove two factions now couldn´t be the right way because this is what makes EF so interesting and awesome and would be a radical step back.

-

So please do not feel pissed off and do not take everything too serious. I take my hat off to the EF team but I still think that you should find other ways to remove the problems you´re facing now.
Same goes for critics - remember that your mod is still for free and that all of you spend their free time on it just to amuse the CoH community and just for that you should and could be proud on you.

We're trying to fix what's broken based on the majority feedback, to make the mod more successful and MOST importantly more fun for alot more people.

Hanging our head down and accepting defeat isn't what we do, especially when we CAN fix the issues.
Ignoring the feedback and keeping down the road which has proven usuccessful would be idiotic of us.
The fact remains some people aren't bothered by the fact that the faction is indeed broken. Don't much care about balance either(cause balance is bad when a faction is broken) because the gaming experience for them is still fun.
Some people on the other hand would prefer the factions to work perfectly even if that means the limitation of not being able to have all 6 in the  same match at the same time. For them a better balance game with complete features increases the experience ten fold.
And that is what the poll is about.
Responding to the majority feedback can never be a mistake!

Fixing the root cause of the problems isn't causing more problems. Its making the job alot easier when it comes to fixing what problems are left.

Do you play 1v1 games online? Do you play vs humans with and against EF? Is there any reason why despite enjoing it so much you've never felt the need to post a replay to show a really awesome game you enjoyed that much? How often do you play online? Do you play competitive vanila COH online at all and what's your rank?
Backround helps us alot to see where you're coming from with regards to your opinions about not fixing things, so I'd be quite interested to know

Last edited April 15, 2010 at 8:56 AM by Zerstörer

Zerstörer wrote:
We're trying to fix what's broken based on the majority feedback, to make the mod more successful and MOST importantly more fun for alot more people.

Your plans doesn´t fix the problems - they redesign the mod because you have to split EF from CoH.

Quote
Responding to the majority feedback can never be a mistake!

You are absolutely right so take a look at the poll - over 20% are with me and they think that your plans would be a bad idea.

Quote
Do you play 1v1 games online? Do you play vs humans with and against EF? Is there any reason why despite enjoing it so much you've never felt the need to post a replay to show a really awesome game you enjoyed that much? How often do you play online?

You compare apples and oranges like you did in my balance thread or do you want to adjust this mod for me?
If you had read my few statements in this forum with care you should have understand that I do not play your mod any longer due to massive balance problems. I do not exclude that this is just my personal incompetence but this makes your mod quite honestly unenjoyable for me.

Quote
Do you play competitive vanila COH online at all and what's your rank?

Is this about EF or vanilla CoH?

-

You guys have to do what to do. If you think that removing existing factions is the best way - so what? I really do not care a fig about it.

Some personal words to you Zerstörer:

Starting a kind of personal war in an official forum puts you in a very precarious position.
Constructive criticism - do you remember?  ;)

Debating opinions is not a personal war. Its plain conversation. I've not 'attacked you' in any manner nor have I been impolite, So, please either respond to what is asked or don't, but don't make random accusations about being picked on etc you're not gaining any points. If you don't want to answer what I asked that's fine, I'm not going to go any further with this.

The fact that you don't play the mod as you've stated(and yes I remember your previous statements) tells me quite a bit about where you're coming from when stating your opinion about the future of this mod. Its taken into consideration, thanks for your time.

The poll is nowhere near done as yet as its only been 2 days really with only 83 people voting. I would hope for near 200 votes so we'll leave it on for 7-10 days or so.

Last edited April 15, 2010 at 10:35 AM by Zerstörer

The mod's not dead.... just in a coma.

@ Westoffensive - What ridiculous statements. Stop the self-righteous attitude of "don't make excuses/life is like that/philosophy" and believing you know the politics of the dev team. The fault quite clearly lies with the ex-lead, as demonstrated by the dramatic improvements to the mod since he left and the team has obviously been working hard to improve this mod constantly. Also, telling a dev team to be more like relic in their updates could possibly be the worst advice I've ever seen or heard.

Ah, a new post since I've began writing this...
"You are absolutely right so take a look at the poll - over 20% are with me and they think that your plans would be a bad idea."
A clear omission that the vast majority favour some sort of change. Your entire post also happens to dance away from answering the question of what your rank is.

"Starting a kind of personal war in an official forum puts you in a very precarious position.
Constructive criticism - do you remember?"
A condescending statement coming from someone who has much to criticise and nothing to suggest.

You should keep the attitude out of your posts.

Anyway, I agree that removing the OF factions entirely is a terrible move in that it can only detract from the total value of the mod. I think that if anything isn't done over at Relic (extremely likely), the best course of action would be to design the factions around not having heavy weapons and being able to salvage them in some way.

I voted for keeping the factions but adding retreat and vet functionality. Retreat and Vet are fundamental concepts of CoH, even the Brits have them. Much of the CoH gameplay comes from the preservation of your units and while conscripts may be expendable, I hardly think the command squad is so I would like to keep the conscripts as no-retreat while adding it to the rest of the army. I don't really know how to add vet to the Soviets in a unique way but I do like the idea of bought/earnt combination vet for the Ostheer.

Westoffensive wrote:

BurroDiablo wrote:
... our Lead Developer ...

Quote
...  our old Lead Developer ...

Yeah, this easy.
-
(sarcasm on)
Sorry folks but this isn´t the fault of the team because our old Lead Developer was a blockhead and we couldn´t argue at him that there are still too many open issues left.
(sarcasm off)
-
You cannot imagine how often I have heard such excuses in real life. It is absolutely unnecessary to know anything about your team to understand that you are facing problems which might be caused by your old lead developer.

These 'problems' would have been thrashed out rationally had we been able to discuss problems openly like we can now, I expressed balance concerns many times before the release, many people did, but these concerns were ignored and the mod was released. We all saw how well that went. You can't crash a Boat and blame it on the passengers.

QuoteWhy don´t you concentrate on the amazing work you´ve already done and find a way out of this mess instead of making (imo) another mistake? If you will change the non existing vet system and recrewing function to the soviets all the claims about balance and all the early problems you dealt with until now will start over again. The soviets are fine working as they are.

This is why I said your thoughts are moving in the wrong direction

What do you think we're doing? Balance may be hard but its not some gigantic unachievable task, especially when you have decent balancers (which we do now), of course, there will always be people complaining about balance, there's nothing we can do about that, the best we can hope for is pleasing the majority, and if the majority doesn't include you, that's not our problem. The way I see it, there is always room for improvement, if that means tearing down old walls and building news ones, so be it! If the fucking house collapses in the process, you can't say we didn't try.

NomadWarriorSoul wrote:
I came from GR.org after reading a post there asking people's opinions.

The basic gist of most of the replies there was that Brits and PE are basically broken for different reasons in comparison to US and Wehr factions, so why even ask about replacing them to get the functionality the dev team wants from the factions.  (Seriously... read the replies there, I'm not exaggerating.)

Might I suggest making a true poll there, as there is a large skilled playerbase there mostly aware of the design and balance issues that exist in the current version of CoH, but they might not be motivated enough to come here and register to vote...

Please post the link.

On the face of it the majority of the forum members will vote for implement vet and retreat but keep the relic factions.

But the people outside this forum, from whom these complains came and we need to recrut to play, don´t vote.

As i understand these people would agree to remove the relic factions in order to play again.

So it would be very good to implement these people into the vote, perhaps by starting another vote on a gamers page.

The thing about recrewing is that its not only about doing so for your own weapon. Its about denying them to your opponent.
How many time have you de-crewed and MG/Mortar and left it so your opponent can re-crew it and cause you the same problems all over again? You're much more likely to steal it than have time or chance to sit and try to destroy it(which you never do with anything other than an AT gun).

Because of these mechanics and the fact that heavy weapons can be de-crewed easily because they can be recrewed, its not really possible to balance this as things stand with just cost and weapon strength or unit size/health.

Last edited April 15, 2010 at 10:56 AM by Zerstörer

I have an idea!


AT guns are like, 300 mp, right? Well in the support barracks you could buy JUST a weapon crew for like 100 mp. They are the same stats as mechanics and forces on recerwing motels, AT guns, and mg. If not the enemy's, at least our own.

Seeme wrote:
I have an idea!
AT guns are like, 300 mp, right? Well in the support barracks you could buy JUST a weapon crew for like 100 mp. They are the same stats as mechanics and forces on recerwing motels, AT guns, and mg. If not the enemy's, at least our own.

I don't know if I understood well you idea. But it gives me some inspiration, I was wondering if it is possible to give decrewed AT gun a status of "armor wreck" and then either salvage it or recover it with special recovery engineers? Same for mortars. It would be like bypassing the game mechanics, but at least opponent wouldn't be able to use against...

BurroDiablo wrote:
If the fucking house collapses in the process, you can't say we didn't try.

Yes, but I think that even the possibility is rather dramatical for this mod.

--

Ok guys,

because this mod has died for me a long time ago this is the last post from me in here.
Maybe I will play this mod some day again but for now I´ll erase the last part of the EF chapter by deleting this forum account. And the bullshit I have read from GodlikeDennis is the last straw.

Just one thing I wanted to know:

What is so important about the personal rank? Who really cares about that? I know a lot of people out there which have a higher rank than me even if they have a negative win-loss statistic. They just play more often because they might have more time. So the ranking system do not provide anything about the real playing ability of a player.

Rank goes hand in hand with competitive play which is the core of any online multiplay game. Its about competing against others for a better position.
Unless you're hacking it also indicates ability to play the game and level of understanding of the game mechanics and balance. Cause that allows you to take advantage of them and win enough to have a higher rank.
To keep a high rank, you play alot of games. When you play a lot of games you gain better experience and understanding.
If you're striving for a higher rank then you're bound to delve deeper into balance/mechanics and understand better how that is achieved.

Its not black and white, but it is a good bet that the higher the rank the more sound the opinion will be. Besides that wasn't the only question.

In either case you've stated many time the mod is dead for you and you're not playing etc, so I don't quite see the point of indulging further on this. We'll take the steps we feel are necessary to fix things.

You're already not playing the mod so any fix we put in place can't make the mod any worse for you.

So, lets move on

Last edited April 15, 2010 at 12:01 PM by Zerstörer

You noted the lack of games being play, the question you need to answer is why?  There are dozens of people starting vanilla CoH games, and a small percentage of mod games going lately.  3 months ago, it seemed like the majority of the players were into modded games  The poll you should be taking is: What is preventing /deterring you from playing EF or other mods?  And you have to have more than a couple vague generic choices to get their reasons across.
I play EF 90% of the time, experimenting with different armies, and sometimes dealing with bugs/problems.
These are some of problems that I have seen in EF, that may be keep others away.  In no particular order.
High crash rate.
First units not producing after an upgrade.
Players not patched to the same level, preventing play between them.
Lack of ranking for Soviets.
High cost for low quality units, especially weapons crew with no recrew.

Fix the game play bugs first, then consider options to change the main issue, which is probably the lack of ranking system keeping top players away.

[quote="Zerstörer"]We were rank 11, now 8 in moddb. That shows a certain interest still exists thankfully, but people are still not playing it. They're waiting for things to get fixed and that's what we're trying to do. [/quote]

Imo, large amount of them are waiting for Ostheer.
Not to say there aren't people waiting for fixes.

QuoteHigh crash rate.

If you go through CoH forums you'll see that they have the same problem, unless the crash isn't on the middle of game. I mean, if CoH do that, EF usually will behave the same, after all, its a mod of it.

QuotePlayers not patched to the same level, preventing play between them.

Ehmm... you have the same with Relic's CoH and any other multiplayer game.

QuoteLack of ranking for Soviets.

The only way to get ranking and recrew is a)replacing OF factions or b)Relic will release a patch fixing this.

I have been thinking about a method to get vet, but the only thing i thought is something like "the sins of the father are the sins of the son", every single squad will gain experience by themselves like the allies, when the first unit of that type reach vet 1, new units from that type will be built with vet 1 and so on; those others units on the field of the same type will remain with the same vet as do conscripts when you upgrade to nkvd conscripts, of course conscripts and nkvd ones would not gain vet.

I think the point is that the community at large is not playing EF or mods in general. Why? Dunno but during the early summer months it might be beneficial to release a balance patch if you don't by then. Why? More people will be home and out of school, thus providing an increased amount of players. As far as the mod being dead, its not dead forum or DL wise, but Online it is. Biggest problem is that people are DLing the 1.00 Patch and its high imbal and people will start to wonder if DLing the patches are worth it. Provide a new installer that has an auto updater that forces you to DL the new patch before starting the game. This might turn the few people who like the OP of the 1.00 russians but at least the community at large will be on the same patch and will probably provide a better experience for those who are just starting to play the mod rather then being completely bum fucked by the 1.00 Russians.....