Airborne = Useless

I suggest getting the Hellcat rather then the M10. From what I hear there is still some "misfire" bug that I still dont understand. Also they have a MG to help stop Volks + suppres them to be run over ;D. But it wont really suppress them :P. Two will I think  :P

Last edited February 29, 2012 at 1:50 AM by Trannyhunterx

Yeah Hellcats are much better. Misfire bug (or burp bug) is where the M10 goes to shoot but the turret turns, LOS is blocked, you move too fast past the target etc. The gun will still shoot out smoke from the gun and will enter the reload cycle (you can't shoot again until it reloads) but the gun never actually fires. Lots of other weapons in the game do a similar thing, like the Soviet T70, and will constantly fire until they can ACTUALLY fire on the target. That way it looks like they're rapid firing. However, due to the fact the M10 firing animation is tied in (because it's open topped), it has to start the reload cycle even if it didn't fire properly.

Last edited February 29, 2012 at 1:52 AM by GodlikeDennis

I never start WSC, but i like getting support weapons to play with. Even mortars are really nice to have to avoid to much sneaky capping.

35(skirmish)+50(assault)+35(sturm)+35(puma)=155Fuel still with Mp40's
US: 15+(60)+50+45+30 = 200 total if you want Bars.

Guess your right though, the allies can rush vehicles really fast.


I also know that jeeps are good for recon and sniperhunting. But they fall off their game when Panzerfaust and such get's on the field. Sniper is not affected by that =P

QuoteThe phase bug has been overstated in this thread a little.

No, i've tried it alot, RR's do not hit.. I have never even managed to destroy a immobilized one with RR's. But they seems to hit STUG's and Panzers like crazy. =)


Going to test more now. :)

QuoteI suggest getting the Hellcat rather then the M10.

Sure thang.

Last edited February 29, 2012 at 9:46 AM by Monos

First, you don't count the first 15FU for the barracks because you start with 15. Second, BARs aren't necessary in a vehicle rush.

He previously said he wanted BARs in order to fight off infantry and maintain fuel control. Thats why he has factored in the 60 fuel :P. However getting BARs will delay you ALOT if your intentions are fast vehcles. Unless you are like dominating the map and have like all the fuel then its not advised. Just get 4 rifles IMO. They do fine. BARs will drastically improve AI but certainly not AT. And if you do see a Puma dont get stickies as a counter if you dont have your motor Pool up. You will just get kited to death.

You can also Jeep Push early in the game. Pretty useful :P

Last edited February 29, 2012 at 10:00 AM by Trannyhunterx

Jeep pushing is fun.  ;D

Btw, fast M8 first, then BAR's and\or WSC wasn't as bad as i thought.


Airborne Fire-Up + Satchel charge on AT-guns feels so good, don't know why i've never used Satchels on anything else than buildings before =P



NEW QUESTION!

Do you EVER get second SupplyYard upgrade? 140 fuel! O.o




Side question

When do you use tanktraps?
I close of chokes on maps like semois sometimes and then mine gap on the other choke. 


Another question

Why does the Hard Wehr AI earn 16000MP and I just earn 10000. I also keep all the points of the map for most of the game but it earned 25% more fuel and munitions.

Does wehr just earn more MP than US?

Another game now, he made PUMA's and FLAK cannons + other AT.. Couldn't use infantry nor vehicles.
Got him down to 100 points while i had 480, had all sectors on the map and all looked good until he flipped it.

I checked the stats afterwards. He earned 700 Fuel, i got 500. 10,000 manpower, i got 6000.
I had the game all the way until he started pumping out vehicles like no tomorow. I destroyed like 15 out of 36 made tanks. I made 4 vehicles that game and was out of fuel, didn't even get BARS at all.

I got this weird feeling that it cheats when it starts losing. Thats real bad programming of AI. Why not make it smarter instead of giving it twice my amount of fuel.

I cut off his fuel, woho, i'm winning!
No wait.. he earned twice as much as me but didn't have any fuelpoints.. WTF?

So stupid.

Last edited February 29, 2012 at 11:59 AM by Monos

Yeh, tank traps are used to either close a gap like a hedge, or use it with an ATg so that they can't flank, or just make a funnel and put mines in the (hopefully) only exit. (Mind ya, there's a crapload of strategies besides what I just said, these are just the more obvious uses)

As taken from TVtorpes, the computer is a cheating bastard. To provide a challenge in hard and above it gets bonus resources to burn. You'll see it crank up units like they cost nothing and the like. EF improved the AI quite a bit, but it still wouldn't be able to compete without the resources boost.

EasyCalic wrote:
Yeh, tank traps are used to either close a gap like a hedge, or use it with an ATg so that they can't flank, or just make a funnel and put mines in the (hopefully) only exit. (Mind ya, there's a crapload of strategies besides what I just said, these are just the more obvious uses)

As taken from TVtorpes, the computer is a cheating bastard. To provide a challenge in hard and above it gets bonus resources to burn. You'll see it crank up units like they cost nothing and the like. EF improved the AI quite a bit, but it still wouldn't be able to compete without the resources boost.

Cool, cool =)

Did 3, 1vs1 against humans just now. Won all games vs Wehr as amri. Really something else that is.

Tank traps are good for small spots like hedge groove gaps. But don't waste your time on making a lot of them. Well road blocks are fun and can be easily built and provide green cover.

And the comp gets extra resources depending on the difficulty. And they get free units.

Trannyhunterx wrote:
Tank traps are good for small spots like hedge groove gaps. But don't waste your time on making a lot of them. Well road blocks are fun and can be easily built and provide green cover.

And the comp gets extra resources depending on the difficulty. And they get free units.

Damn computer cheats like a bitch!

I've never used the traps for cover.. Wire on the other side to avoid the enemy use your cover.  Why am i making sandbags? :o

No no no. Regular tank traps and Wehr Dragons teeth do NOT provide cover. HOWEVER PE Road Blocks are uncrushable, provide green cover, take a while to destroy, enable PG to also build wire, and any PG squad can build it. They can be useful if used right :P

Ah, PE roadblocks.. They like sandbags. :P

@Monos: They're actually much better. Sandbags are crushable, and only provide light (yellow cover).

I've found that comps like to frag wire/tank traps to get through. They're really not the best tool for area denial, more like a "slow the enemy down for your guns" tool.

Trooper425 wrote:
@Monos: They're actually much better. Sandbags are crushable, and only provide light (yellow cover).

I've found that comps like to frag wire/tank traps to get through. They're really not the best tool for area denial, more like a "slow the enemy down for your guns" tool.

In PVP it's 100% easier to cut because the enemy can just see if you attacking it and then will deploy reinforcements.

We're off topic gang. We can move this to American tactics or get back to the airborne discussion

LOL I like your new avatar :P. No more Italian mob boss? ;) Would that happen to be the icon for the foreign reinforcement troops?

Can you explain the Strafing Run for Airborne doctrine. I heard the latest vCOh patch made it weird and by bunchong you troops you actually take less dmg overall :-X

Strafing run used to do more damage to singular units. Bunched units took less damage. Now it has been reversed so blobs take more damage.

Trannyhunterx wrote:
LOL I like your new avatar :P. No more Italian mob boss? ;) Would that happen to be the icon for the foreign reinforcement troops?

Vito may be making a return. I'll see how I like this :)

Strafingrun was crazy against blobbed units. Blobbing vs airborne is not a good idea, took out this one guys whole army with one run ;D

And CranialWiz ... Your not at scary without the vito pic  ;)

Trooper425 wrote:
@Monos: They're actually much better. Sandbags are crushable, and only provide light (yellow cover).

Pardon me but I think sandbags provide green cover

Yep, sandbags give green cover.

dArCReAvEr wrote:
Yep, sandbags give green cover.

lol yeah, used sandbags quite some.
Roadblocks are just sandbags with Tanktraps in them.

:)

Airborne aren't as stupid as i first thought. Used bombingrun to destroy some tanks the other day.
Maby it's expensive since you can use "Drop supply" ability to get extra munies.




And Manpower blitz of the germans ain't too bad of an ability is it?

It gives you 900MP and 3 mins with 50% ... 3 mins of resourses is about 810 depending on upkeep.

900 + 405 = 60% more resourses on the same three min.. Though you lose 125 munitions. But most often i'm low on manpower not munition. Or am i totally wrong?

When you need 2 stormtroopersquads and a tiger fast.. You can just use some of those 250 munis you have and use the rest on weapons for the troopers.

Last edited March 1, 2012 at 3:44 PM by Monos

As blitzkrieg doc has no artillery ability it does have something to spend ammo on :P. Also ressource blitz is a really powerful ability which allows you to trade ammo for manpower... it can be compared with the red tide ability.

Thats what i'm saying, almost in the same words. But why do people on GameReplays say that it's useless along with blitzkrieg ability? Don't they all have their usefullness and strategies they can be implemented on?

O_o The MPblitz and blitzkrieg abilities is nice in my eyes.

They gladly pay for flankspeed on other units, but when you can speed up your entire army it's not cool? whaddup with that.


Blitzkrieg assault taken from company of heroes wiki:
"This ability will give every single unit you have on the field a firing and running/speed bonus. ...  The Blitzkrieg assault also gives a great suppression resistance along with heavy crush on your tanks."

Last edited March 1, 2012 at 7:46 PM by Monos

Monos wrote:
Blitzkrieg assault taken from company of heroes wiki:
"This ability will give every single unit you have on the field a firing and running/speed bonus. ...  The Blitzkrieg assault also gives a great suppression resistance along with heavy crush on your tanks."

Your units also cap faster. Btw don't forget that the Blitz doc has the Assault nades ability which is quiet abusive :P.

Walki wrote:
Your units also cap faster.

Nice!

Walki wrote:
Btw don't forget that the Blitz doc has the Assault nades ability which is quiet abusive :P.

For what? Making squads retreat? :P




[[I like advanced warning ability from defence Doc Nobody can enter your sectors unseen. =D (except snipers)]]

Last edited March 1, 2012 at 8:01 PM by Monos

Assault nades are like Grenadier nades only they do additional stun and make you soldiers spaz around. Its best used with Volks as they will throw 3 nades at a time. Even if your units do dodge it they will still get stunned, meaning they wont be able to dodge the second barrage. Very powerful. Just don't use it on units in a building cause they can just leave and then the assault ability is canceled but you lose 50 muni. Its good vs MGs or blobbed infantry.

Monos wrote:
Thats what I'm saying, almost in the same words. But why do people on GameReplays say that it's useless along with blitzkrieg ability? Don't they all have their usefulness and strategies they can be implemented on?

The reason they don't necessarily like it IMO is because as Wehr munitions are extremely important. While US and PE must spend fuel in order to get better Wehr and Brits must spend muni to get significantly better. Fuel is important but it can be argued muni is even more important for Wehr.

With that said both abilites cost 125 muni or more which could be spent on say a shreck and MP40s or Sual flamers and a mine. Getting heavy crush and fast capping is cool but dont spend 125 on it for that sole purpose ::).

The resource blitz is a cool ability. BUT it is a heavy investment and if you choose wrong you are screwed. Most people use it to get say, a Tiger, a Panther, or StuH and stormtroopers; is that a fair statement? Lets say you get the Tiger but your enemy decided to get heavy AT to counter an anticipated Tiger. Now you need AI. But chances are you used Resource blitz because you didnt have the mp for anything else. So now what do you do? You are both down on mp for 3 min (which is actually a long time) and you are down 175 muni. But lets say that doesn't necessarily happen and you went dual, even triple stomtroopers because you saved some mp. Now you want shrecks for them (cause dual shrecks storms are so fun :P.). But you just spent your muni and unless you were sitting on alot of muni prior to resource blitz, you cant get shrecks for them can you? Or use ability for that matter :(.

So resource blitz IMO is okay BUT risky IMO. But I'd be better if a balancer weighted in on this :P

Trannyhunterx wrote:
Assault nades are like Grenadier nades only they do additional stun and make you soldiers spaz around.

I know. but they are weaker in dmg than grenadier nades. They just stun ALOT and kind of force a squad to retreat officer or die. Should try them out and hope my enemy forget to retreat. ^^,

Trannyhunterx wrote:
So resource blitz IMO is okay BUT risky IMO. But I'd be better if a balancer weighted in on this :P

but it should be able to use it to win games. Because if you didn't use blitz and got that tiger the normal way anyways. You'd just use 3more min to get it and.. 3 min is quite alot in the heat of battle.



NEW QUESTION

What was my biggest fail in this game?

http://www.gamereplays.org/companyofheroes/replays.php?game=25&show=details&id=256438&st=0#9071870


Now i don't know much about wehr, i just improvice. I did a quite good job in the start with the MG's and taking out the M8 and Halftrack. But i did a lot of mistakes and he took out my tanks and i didn't even see.
Was that the turning point? Or the fact that i had too little infantry against the rangers?
Maby i wasted to much MP's on pointless deaths. But so should he have done, since i killed more men than he did.

I wasted the sniper before he paid for himself by doing a huge mistake. BUT! why didn't my mortars seem like they was even fire'ing on his blob in middle before i lost. I put all my trust in it but it didn't seem to fire. Just one hit would've been devistating. It died with 0 kills.

I'm such a n00b :P


Lots of knowlage about individual things, little experiance. Tell me every mistake please and what i must work the most on.
I'd be really thankfull :)


(I went defence to avoid sneaky capping and have easier time seeing flanks. AND! I was going to use my medic bunker to reeinforce in the field. But i forgot too. Maby because i've never done it before. It got me two Grenadiers though)



WAKE UP CALL

Maby it's the booze i drank that makes my reaction slower and make me fuck up extra much and lose track of all the things that goes on.  ::)

Last edited March 1, 2012 at 10:57 PM by Monos

The reason I say its risky is because you will probably immediately use that 900 mp and then you will be stuck with w/e path you just went down. Yeah a Tiger i powerful but there are appropriate counters. You might think "well I'll just support it". Chances are you are using this out of desperation, not as a game ender. And what if you desperately need muni? And you might think 3 minutes is not alot but it kind of is. A game is usually 30 minutes anywho so 3 minutes is like 1/10 of the game right there. In addition once you call in your new units with the new manpower you upkeep will see an even further drop, meaning you will be trickling mp.

And you should really not ask all these random questions on a thread called "Airbone = Useless". Just lock this thread if you have nothing more to say and ask your questions on the appropriate topics ;).

And I might not be a balancer but I could watch the replay if you want :P

Trannyhunterx wrote:
And I might not be a balancer but I could watch the replay if you want :P

Yeah please :)

Trannyhunterx wrote:
And you should really not ask all these random questions on a thread called "Airbone = Useless". Just lock this thread if you have nothing more to say and ask your questions on the appropriate topics .

But it's nice to talk here :(



Playing this good guy over and over now.. Damn i'm bad, but atleast i don't give up :P

Last edited March 2, 2012 at 12:39 AM by Monos

I'll be typing errors as I watch you video :P

Okay I finished watching the video. These are some simple mistakes I noticed that can be easily fixed. If anyone else feels differently about what I typed you are free to correct me as Im not a expert :P. I know its a long list

- You dont use your second pio to help build your barracks. And for a while they just sit there.
- You send all your units to stop one engineer squad from capping. It only takes one squad.
- IMO you needed to consolidate your forces to one side, not try to fight for the whole map. You were spread too thin and the rilfes were capping everything.
- You also capped with your MGs which is not such a hot idea, especially in enemy territory.
- You also have alot of idle units. They should cap or something else. Like make your pios lay mines. Which is another thing. Lay mines
- You cap under fire which is a bad idea. Unless you are almost done dont do that.
- You have your units get really close to rifles just to utilize yellow cover. Stay at long range. Thats when Axis infantry do best.
- You needed to buy some vet. You were floating alot of fuel anyways
- You fausted a full health armor skirts M8. VERY bad idea. It gains you nothing, especially cause his engineers were right next to his M8, ready to repair. Yo should have saved + spent your muni on a shreck to support you PaKs
- Considering how you had defensive doctrine and you saw his 3 rifle squads coming towards your mortar and Paks, you should have retreated. Also there is no reason to have 2 paks right next to each other.
- You didnt use the first panzer at all. When those rifles charged you that thing should have helped. And when you call arty don't have your volks walk into the middle :P
- When your panzer is  next to an AT gun and its firing at your tank's ass dont just simply turn around. Get behind that AT gun and blow that crew to hell >:D
- When you are HEAVILY outgunned (2 wounded KCH and a badly damaged panzer vs 2 vet 1rangers and 3 vet 2 rifles) dont try and fight them off. Retreat immediately. Its not worth giving them veterancy. And you pios are just sitting around. You should have repaired you tank
- You got panzers but I think you needed Ostwinds which are probably better AI
- Later you weren't really using cover. You just blobbed and charged. I know its tempting and I do it sometmes but dont. You also left his BARs for him to take back. Later you pick his BARs up with KCH. Try not to do this. The reason KCH are so effective is because of their MP44s. With BARs they get worse!
- You're too defensive later on. I know you went def doctrine but take it with a grain of salt. You had 3 gren squads and for a bit they just sat there. Then they started building sandbags which the enemy started using. You probably would have been better getting a sniper. Even two
- It only takes 1 unit to cap. Dont have all your squads cappng one point >_<
- And the reason he had so much resources was because he retained map control and kept cutting you off. Strategic pinots dont grant you much but they are still important.

Last edited March 2, 2012 at 1:42 AM by Trannyhunterx

It's scientific, you start blobbing when you lose.

Can you build faster with more PIO's?


Most of those things you wrote down i knew allready and are obvious errors, like capping with more guys, thats another part of the blobbing issue. You just choose all your guys and click a point and forget to get the others doing their stuff.

About mines.. I was really low on munitions all the time it feelt like. Never got too much.

That i was too defencive, i haven't even noticed! :P
I play kinda like this no-matter what doc i choose. Or i think, but i might be wrong.

I know that axis bolt rifles are best at range, but is beeing at range more important than cover? If yes.. I've been wasting alot of potential.

Hehe, paks can't retreat.. i had them cloacked, hoping he wouldn't see them xD ... lolol

The infront of AT gun thing worked out, since he retreat his AT gun after his last shot, wich would've hit anyways. Then it was just to go back and repair.

And at the time of those KCH, dmg panzer.. It feelt like i was beaten allready. Last resistance.

Panzers was because i expected more armor and my packs were destroyed\decrewed.

My first sniper died before getting kills, so i never feelt i could afford another :(

The second mortar thing.. i still think it should've killed afjew rifles instead of 0.. it was nicely hid behind the hedge with support from grenaders.



Tnx alot btw! :)

Last edited March 2, 2012 at 2:03 AM by Monos

Losing a sniper sucks but never be detered from getting another sniper. Its that second sniper shot from a new sniper that pisses the enemy off (well for me at least :P)

Yes, the more builder units the faster. Thats why when units are done building, they usually go and help another unit build. Cause it speeds things up.

I feel you choose defensive doctrine just for the increased sight range. That was not good on your part. You were floating alot of mp. Blitz would have been the most helpful. Especially StuHs.

Yeah, when it comes to Axis troops, range is probably better than cover. Riflemen are deadly at lose range. I assume you werent paying attention but a vanilla rifle squad actually killed your KCH at close range and got vet 1 (that was painful to watch :() And there was enough cover where you fought that you didnt need to worry about no cover. And if cover really is a problem nade them out of their spot. Hoever I dont recomend assault nades with KCH. Expensive + not worth it.

Just because being in front of an AT gun worked once doesn't mean it will work again. That was a bad move on the US player IMO when he moved his AT gun. Losing the crew of a AT gun is always worth it if that means they will kill the panzer. He was about to kill ur panzer and just decided to scoot backwards. It can always be recrewed. Panzers cant

You can always recrew paks which you never did. And when I said "retreat you paks" I meant moving them away from the rifles, not just standing still. You could have moved them foward where he would have never looked. His troops were all in the south, not the north (I checked). And your paks should not be literally on the front lines. They should be a little behind just in case infantry come first. And if you must have them on the front lines pull them back if you see a rifle blob coming towards you. Dont just stay still >_<

Last edited March 2, 2012 at 2:12 AM by Trannyhunterx

Just thought about it.
"Why didn't i move them when steathed?"
That was lame.

:)

QuoteYeah, when it comes to Axis troops, range is probably better than cover.

Noted, but KCH i thought was good at close range. Never got more than 2vet lvl's on them and the same on tanks. =P

How early do you advice me to get vet? When should i use fuel on vet and not teching?

Depends on your strategy.
When I play wehr I usually build the Kampfkraftcenter when I'm teching to tier 2, then build a Kriegs barracks, queue either a gren (if enemy got bar upgrade) or a pak (if there's no bars). Then I get another Grenadier and buy vet 1 and 2.

This way you have 2-3 Volksgrenadiers and 2 grens with vet 2 + 1-2 mgs. Pretty much all you need ^^

Honestly like darcreaver said it depends. If you intend on going infantry heavy its a good idea to get vet soon. Vet 2 is sort of a counter to BARs and Vet tanks are sort of a counter to 76mm upgrade. The same concept applies to SU. I'm not 100% sure about Brits as they are sort of a wtf faction :P. If you are rushing T3 or T4 then don't get vet. Spend it on teching.

And honestly you should really close this topic and go to the appropriate place for any new questions. We have answered all you questions and the topic's original complaint has been resolved. Now this has sort of become a question lobby for you :P

Yeah :) Tnx again.  :D

Locked