Airborne = Useless

I did it again, i tried to go airborne and OMG i lost soo hard because AirBorne are shitty and overprised.

Their don't do shit against infantry, they die like flies, they often die before they hit the ground if there is any superduperranged AA you didn't look for nearby. AND! Their Recoilless rifles have 10% accuracy.

They get two of the suckers and they hit once every 10 times. I'm serious, it takes 10 shots for them to hit anything... ONCE.
My opponent vehicle spammed T3 units, so i got AT-guns and Airborne. Darn riflemen does more dmg with sticky bombs, atleast the sticky hits and is more worth the ammunition.

Infantry gives you rangers who are the heroes of the American army, they are strong vs infantry and vehicles and they don't die so darn fast.

The only usefull thing with airborne is their sathel charges, which is too weak to destroy a bunker. And recoilless rifles does so little dmg and almost never hits the bunker so what is their purpose? Behind enemy lines opperations? They got killed by VET 3 pioneer squad that defended the 16ammo on semois.

I now know the reason why i never see these guys used in any shoutcasts nor replays with americans.
Only way to beat early puma + Pak strategy when you go fast bars is rangers + Riflemen. Airborne is the worst infantry in the game.

"Fire up so usefull for flanking"
Like those idiots will ever kill anything after you have flanked, un-upgraded volks beat them easily close up. Stupid useless bullshit.



Tip for total newcommers @ coh:

Want to play americans and take over teritory behind enemy lines?
GO ARMOR, choose raid and take over territory early with your jeep.
What about airborne you ask? They die faster than the jeep, so they are not worth it... NEVER

Last edited February 27, 2012 at 7:08 PM by Monos

Strange to read this...Airborne giga-blob is a very widespread tactic of USA players, due to the strenght of Paratroops vs veichles and inf.

You play against Human or AI?

trololol?

All what you say may be, but what would EF do against it? Nothing, because we decided not to change vanilla gameplay.

This ain't suggestion forum, this is strategy section. Strategy is, do not choose them.

You play against Human or AI? Does playing a test game vs AI with airborne affect their accuracy in any way?
I almost allways go infantry doc.

Last edited February 27, 2012 at 7:08 PM by Monos

maybe you use them wrong.

Maybe we can get an advice from an experienced player that has used plenty of times this doctrine? (Waiting for it...)

Killar wrote:
maybe you use them wrong.

You mean like PIATS that get more accurate when in buildings? So i should place them in specific cover for bonus hit chance?

Actually PIAT's on the airborne would be more usefull since i stickied and destroyed engine\imobilized the fast PUMAS before hitting them with the recoilless. To bad my 3 squads of airborne had to be retreated at 1man left before they had hit the imobilized PUMA once. Thats 6 RR's total =P

blackbishop wrote:
Maybe we can get an advice from an experienced player that has used plenty of times this doctrine? (Waiting for it...)

Second that.

Last edited February 27, 2012 at 7:46 PM by Monos

IMHO using RRs to hunt pumas is not a good choice, because of the "phase-in" bug(I think that's how it is called). You should use them vs tanks.

Monos wrote:
I did it again, i tried to go airborne and OMG i lost soo hard because AirBorne are shitty and overprised.

Their don't do shit against infantry, they die like flies, they often die before they hit the ground if there is any superduperranged AA you didn't look for nearby. AND! Their Recoilless rifles have 10% accuracy.

They get two of the suckers and they hit once every 10 times. I'm serious, it takes 10 shots for them to hit anything... ONCE.
My opponent vehicle spammed T3 units, so i got AT-guns and Airborne. Darn riflemen does more dmg with sticky bombs, atleast the sticky hits and is more worth the ammunition.

Infantry gives you rangers who are the heroes of the American army, they are strong vs infantry and vehicles and they don't die so darn fast.

The only usefull thing with airborne is their sathel charges, which is too weak to destroy a bunker. And recoilless rifles does so little dmg and almost never hits the bunker so what is their purpose? Behind enemy lines opperations? They got killed by VET 3 pioneer squad that defended the 16ammo on semois.

I now know the reason why i never see these guys used in any shoutcasts nor replays with americans.
Only way to beat early puma + Pak strategy when you go fast bars is rangers + Riflemen. Airborne is the worst infantry in the game.

"Fire up so usefull for flanking"
Like those idiots will ever kill anything after you have flanked, un-upgraded volks beat them easily close up. Stupid useless bullshit.



Tip for total newcommers @ coh:

Want to play americans and take over teritory behind enemy lines?
GO ARMOR, choose raid and take over territory early with your jeep.
What about airborne you ask? They die faster than the jeep, so they are not worth it... NEVER

Yea I go airborne often. You're definitely using them wrong.

blackbishop wrote:
IMHO using RRs to hunt pumas is not a good choice, because of the "phase-in" bug(I think that's how it is called). You should use them vs tanks.

So thats what up with the RR, a BUG. No wonder shit don't work. So Airborne = Go fast Motorpool or die?

Quote
Yea I go airborne often. You're definitely using them wrong.

Enlighten us with your wisdom.

Last edited February 27, 2012 at 8:29 PM by Monos

Airborne infantry have Airborne Armor, meaning that on the move they have a .75 recieved accuracy modifier. Their M1 Carbines also have the smallest moving accuracy penalty, meaning that on the move the troops lose accuracy the least of all American weapons.

That said, the Carbines are also the weakest of the 3 common American rifles because of it's range modifiers and other factors. (BAR> Garand> Carbine)

Because of this, you are correct Airborne suck against infantry. Not sure why you're intending them to be used like that.
HOWEVER,
Airborne should NEVER, EVER be the main stay of your army. They should support troops for your Riflemen regiments or for your WSC units with Flame Engineer support, you need some sort of better anti-infantry dominance to be able to use the Airborne efficiently.

Use Airborne as dedicated AT squads, like Rangers. The two are similar in that they have large upkeep and cost (Which is why they should NEVER be your main army) but have well-to-do anti-tank weapons and are similar in that they have the Fire-up and grenade capabilities.

Their differences are that Airborne can be called in anywhere, and can be reinforced anywhere. While fighting behind enemy lines (IE You call them in and you lose a couple guys) if you noticeably win an engagement then you can reinforce on the spot. Their Satchels are nice at destroying or at least weakening bunkers for a final blow and if MGs are your issue you can use Fire-Up to flank around it quickly and lob a grenade in there to try and decrew it. Your other infantry, supposedly pinned, will be able to assist you in moments.

Now for RRs. I don't even know where you got that stupid "lol 10%" figure but I can assure you RRs are fine. Perhaps you should try to focus fire and stop your squad before firing as most heavier weapons are more accurate when still in COH. It's just the way it works.

Compare them to Bazookas, for instance. Both have similar-ish accuracies (RR Comes out on top IIRC), however Bazookas deal more damage while RRs deal much more penetration. This makes RRs very effective at dealing with tanks that have lower health and better armor. The only exception really is the Puma which has the phase-bug, but I don't even see it all too often anymore. It still has plenty good capability to kill the Puma or AC as long as you don't charge at it like a moron and use cover to your advantage.

Of course a freaking vet 3 flaming pio squad is going to kill your airborne. Vet 3 Pios have Elite armor, health regeneration, he was likely in cover, and you must not have been paying attention. IIRC Airborne armor is in the same as Elite armor and takes more damage from flames. Not to mention Airborne are not good against infantry as stated above.

If you see an AA Vehicle or emplacement (Flak 38, Whirlbel, Puma, Ostwind) Why the hell are you calling in airborne ANYWHERE near it? ??? They are helpless while dropping so those tanks can just fire away as they drop. If you visibly see weapons like this then call them in somewhere more convenient.

Airborne are just as useful as Rangers I feel. Neither can be used as a main force of an army primarily because of reinforce cost and upkeep, along with the fact that rangers are suspectible to snipers and fire, and airborne offer more tactical use but do not fare so well against infantry. Use BAR Riflemen to help support your airborne and use the airborne to lob grenades, decrew MGs in both buildings and bunkers, disrupt capping operations and offer decent counters to vehicles.

If you really want to preserve your airborne RR troops build a Triage Center

TL;DR:

Airborne are weak unsupported as they are not viable against infantry. Build a triage center, and PAY ATTENTION to their health.
Keep them supported! Use BAR Rifles or combine arms help from WSC units and flame engineers.
Use the Fire-up and Satchels to your advantage to flank around weapons teams and make short work of enemy units garrisoned.
Call them in at strat points to help cut off enemy supply lines. They can be called in and reinforced anywhere.
Use their RRs to make short work of vehicles and tanks. Work well against most tanks except maybe the KT. Still a threat to Tigers. Sure they're expensive but if you're not looking to tech to 57mms or Hellcats it's what you have to do.
NEVER EVER CALL THEM IN NEAR AA WEAPONS.


Suggestion: Use Rifle Stickies to stop a vehicle cold and finish it off with RRs at range in cover. Works well against Pumas and vehicles of the like.

Last edited February 27, 2012 at 9:18 PM by Cranialwizard

About AA, you don't allways know if it's buildt. =P
Btw, The PIOs did also shoot them before they landed, i didn't know they was there though. They were non flamer on their way to cap the point IIRC, could have had flamers though.

Triage center was up to heal mah snipahman, vet 3 sucka.

I faced almost exclusively PUMAs and used as said earlier (because they suck against inf) the airborne for AT, and mainly had them in Yellow cover. Still they almost never hit, and when they did the PUMA lost about 20% hp, meaning you need 5 hits if you get fucked over by the 5% bug. Through the whole game i hit the PUMAs a total of twice. Destroying none of them, or i did destroy some but that was with M10's i made after my Airborne had got roflstomped in 4 engagements.

Rifles will allways be the main of the army, they rock at Anti-inf and at some vet they throw sticky's far so your AT can get in. But using airborne as AT ain't working for me the same way as Rangers. Not even close.


Sticky'd puma still didn't drop. So that did not help, and rumor on the forums is that this Phase-Bug is crazy ass deadly.

Last edited February 27, 2012 at 9:30 PM by Monos

I got this from a CoH:O guide for Airborne, but still applies for CoH:

BigFluffyTRex wrote:They are[squad of paratroops] very useful against bunkers. One satchel charge doesn't quite destroy a bunker, so you'll need to shoot it first with your recoilless rifles once or twice. Do not attempt to throw satchel charges at bunkers with MGs inside them, if the MG is firing at you! Paratroopers in fire up mode are unable to retreat for about 10 seconds after throwing a satchel charge, leading to them being cut down by the mg before the satchel goes off - or by any supporting units afterwards.

Note also that airborne troops are NOT a counter to puma armour cars - recoilless rifles will mostly just "phase through" pumas, causing no damage.

Where paratroops shine is knocking out damaged tanks, and supporting your own. They have the best infantry anti-tank weapon in the game, with the longest range. With fire up, you can chase down wounded tanks and finish them without the risk that using your own tanks to do this incurs.

Source, I know it is kind of outdated but still :P.

You know the last time you were here we told you about the "phase through" bug that RR suffer from. I think you need to revise your strategy, not de-fame the Airborne doctrine. Even if Paratroopers do suck (which they kinda do :P) there are still 5 other abilities you can choose from. There will always be abilities in a doctrine that aren't really useful and are semi-situational. Airborne are situation in that they are (kinda) good flankers and okay AT. Use nades (if you have it upgraded or the muni) as they are pretty powerful. And you can drop them behind lines to flank or decap and harass. And as Cranial said, they are good vs damaged tanks as they are usually guaranteed to penetrate, meaning you can finish off a tank.

Monos wrote:
You play against Human or AI? Does playing a test game vs AI with airborne affect their accuracy in any way?
I almost allways go infantry doc.

It doesn't matter whether its Human or AI, the stats will still be the same. It kinda sounds like you play vs comp.

There IS an explanation about that in the official CoH forum, something about scatter and how bazookas are better against vehicles and RRs against tanks, something like "bazookas have high scatter, so if they miss the hit roll, they still have a chance to hit, unlike RRs that don't benefit from that, if they miss they freakin' miss."
Puma's buggy hitbox had something to do with that too, but I don' t remember the details, but it translated to:
Use rangers against vehicles, and to help destroy really weakened tanks. (Alternatively, bumrush infantry with thompsons)
Use paras to harass points, flank weapon teams, and engage bunkers and tanks with little AI capabilities (a.k.a. StuGs and Panthers)

Last edited February 27, 2012 at 9:45 PM by EasyCalic

Trannyhunterx wrote:
You know the last time you were here we told you about the "phase through" bug that RR suffer from. I think you need to revise your strategy, not de-fame the Airborne doctrine. Even if Paratroopers do suck (which they kinda do :P) there are still 5 other abilities you can choose from. There will always be abilities in a doctrine that aren't really useful and are semi-situational. Airborne are situation in that they are (kinda) good flankers and okay AT. Use nades (if you have it upgraded or the muni) as they are pretty powerful. And you can drop them behind lines to flank or decap and harass. And as Cranial said, they are good vs damaged tanks as they are usually guaranteed to penetrate, meaning you can finish off a tank.

Monos wrote:
You play against Human or AI? Does playing a test game vs AI with airborne affect their accuracy in any way?
I almost allways go infantry doc.

It doesn't matter whether its Human or AI, the stats will still be the same. It kinda sounds like you play vs comp.

Worst ability in that doctrine is the Paradrop AT Gun, next is the Bombing run.

Their recoilless rifles are almost litteraly automatic? They reload in like 2 secs and are DEVASTATING against light/ medium vechicles ?

RRs are the best infantry AT weapon in the game IMO. They have very good accuracy and penetration.

In my opinion, the phase bug isn't a bug but a balance design put in so that the low-scatter RRs don't completely dominate Pumas. Indeed, zooks are generally better against Pumas.

Airborne suck at AI until they pick up a few weapons. Get them some BARs or even an LMG42 and they will destroy, especially with the potent US veterancy (which they gain quickly when killing tanks). Use nades against weapon crews and satchels against Paks, flaks and bunkers.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
RRs are the best infantry AT weapon in the game IMO. They have very good accuracy and penetration.

In my opinion, the phase bug isn't a bug but a balance design put in so that the low-scatter RRs don't completely dominate Pumas. Indeed, zooks are generally better against Pumas.

Airborne suck at AI until they pick up a few weapons. Get them some BARs or even an LMG42 and they will destroy, especially with the potent US veterancy (which they gain quickly when killing tanks). Use nades against weapon crews and satchels against Paks, flaks and bunkers.

Mostly what I said except in a nutshell :P

Cranialwizard wrote:
Worst ability in that doctrine is the Paradrop AT Gun, next is the Bombing run.

Why do you say that ??? I thought AT gun drop was good against quick armor. And you can reinforce it in the field.

Trannyhunterx wrote:

Cranialwizard wrote:
Worst ability in that doctrine is the Paradrop AT Gun, next is the Bombing run.

Why do you say that ??? I thought AT gun drop was good against quick armor. And you can reinforce it in the field.

It's way overpriced. You can build a ground one for much cheaper and while it's dropping it's a complete liability. What if he rushes in a puma real quick? Bye bye ATG.

Bombing run isnt that bad its just that it's the least useful of the three on the RHS. The recon run can reveal paks and other cloaked stuff, and strafe is just loltastic if you don't see a med bunker. Bomb run is pretty pricey.

Last edited February 28, 2012 at 2:30 AM by Cranialwizard

Also, the RR is WAAAY better than the Bazooka against the T - 34

Yes, Airborne = Useless. Play soviets instead :D
rofl

Quote
Worst ability in that doctrine is the Paradrop AT Gun, next is the Bombing run.

Really?
AT-gun-drop is the only thing to use against Puma without fast motorpool with airborne. So i expected it to be very usefull.
Seen some really good bombingruns, those are powerfull but 250ammo.. Damn...

dArCReAvEr wrote:
Yes, Airborne = Useless. Play soviets instead :D
rofl

Good idea! I'll win then =D

Monos wrote:

Quote
Worst ability in that doctrine is the Paradrop AT Gun, next is the Bombing run.

Really?
AT-gun-drop is the only thing to use against Puma without fast motorpool with airborne. So i expected it to be very usefull.
Seen some really good bombingruns, those are powerfull but 250ammo.. Damn...

dArCReAvEr wrote:
Yes, Airborne = Useless. Play soviets instead :D
rofl

Good idea! I'll win then =D

And that's the problem. It takes about 10-15 seconds for the ATG to drop, land, gather, and lock the gun down, and if a Puma rushes in it can target them even while they fall, and might just circle the poor thing. It's a huge manpower investment to reinforce too.

RRs are by far one of the best AT weapons in game.

Last edited February 28, 2012 at 11:53 AM by Cranialwizard

Cranialwizard wrote:
And that's the problem. It takes about 10-15 seconds for the ATG to drop, land, gather, and lock the gun down, and if a Puma rushes in it can target them even while they fall, and might just circle the poor thing. It's a huge manpower investment to reinforce too.

RRs are by far one of the best AT weapons in game.

So fast MotorPool is only way to go with airborne?

No, fast TD is also an option. A Sherman with RR support will stomp anything that comes out of Wehr T3.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
No, fast TD is also an option. A Sherman with RR support will stomp anything that comes out of Wehr T3.

But it's 90+50+80? fuel to get it  :-\
Even if you drop bars, will it be fast enuff?

Yes, if you get a map advantage and/or OP on a good fuel point (semois etc.) then it's actually very easy to do.

How do you get map advantage against MP40's without Bars and just afjew rifles? =P

U CANT WIN AXIS ITS

;D haha

this thread has evolved too fast, so i wont really try to adress everthing, but airbourne support is a great command tree, and also, IMO one of the most fun. strafing run is extremely effective against blobbing PG's, and any other infantry. also you dont need map control because you get paradrops.

i love airborne, they are highly useful against wehr or PE players with recoiless rifles. For anti infantry, get their grenade upgrade, and then get bars on your rifleman. Any bars the rifleman drop, get your airborne to pick up, then airborne become Iron Men. Also, try using satchels against slow moving heavy tanks, they are funny to see die in that fashion.

Another thing to consider is that Airborne can reinforce anywhere. So if you lose them like mad, make them sprint and find a place for them to hide an reinforce. Also, it helps greatly to get the supply yard upgrades, for it applies to airborne as well as rifleman.

Also, to wehr players, if you want to screw with airborne, get either vet 3 KCH or strom troopers, and then build Ostwinds, those will kill airborne fairly well. For PE, go Luftwaffe and counter their airborne with Fallschrmijagers and flakwerwing or Wirbelwind. Also, butterfly bombs can be used to protect choke-points and high munitions point.

Panzer4life wrote:
i love airborne, they are highly useful against wehr or PE players with recoiless rifles. For anti infantry, get their grenade upgrade, and then get bars on your rifleman. Any bars the rifleman drop, get your airborne to pick up, then airborne become Iron Men. Also, try using satchels against slow moving heavy tanks, they are funny to see die in that fashion.

Another thing to consider is that Airborne can reinforce anywhere. So if you lose them like mad, make them sprint and find a place for them to hide an reinforce. Also, it helps greatly to get the supply yard upgrades, for it applies to airborne as well as rifleman.

Also, to wehr players, if you want to screw with airborne, get either vet 3 KCH or strom troopers, and then build Ostwinds, those will kill airborne fairly well. For PE, go Luftwaffe and counter their airborne with Fallschrmijagers and flakwerwing or Wirbelwind. Also, butterfly bombs can be used to protect choke-points and high munitions point.

Only one problem.
RR's don't work against Pumas, and sticky spam is expensive and you need to get close. Satchel on Puma.. nah man, the dude gotta be quite non-carefull to die to that.

Thats the whole point about this thread. Me pissed because:
Rangers kill Pumas, Airborne refuses too to. Ergo you lose the game unless you go fast MP or TD.

Which means.. If you play against an amri player, go T3 if he goes fast bars and airborne.. He is chanceless if you go quick and cap all the fuel with dual or maby tripple puma =)

Last edited February 28, 2012 at 7:53 PM by Monos

where did you think that RR's dont work against pumas? they do great. also, command tree's are meant to accent your armies, not make up for them. if someone is "chanceless" because they so called picked the wrong doctrine, then this game is not balanced in the least. if you play as doctrine reliant, you should learn to not be so reliant on your dictinal pick. its more of off- map support, nothing more, nothing less. i sometimes dont even pick a doctrine because i am still undecided, and then i win the game and i say to myself "whups, didnt mean to do that." mines combined with sticky bombs shred pumas. you are correct though, i heavily doubt that any vehicle, unless immovable will die by satchel charge. the timer is just too long.

Also, paras don't cost fuel, get an AT gun, M8 or rush to get some X-men (wolverines).

stealthattack1 wrote:
where did you think that RR's dont work against pumas?

Phase-bug? And also excessive testing lately. They just don't hit them, ever. Or maby my game is broken but i doubt it.

Only other option for anti-puma weapon is eather fast teching, rangers or 30'Cal AP rounds. Like when you skip tier 2 with wehr when you go blitzkrieg and use stormtroops as main infantry instead of grenadiers. Doctrines do matter alot.

But you are right about one thing, maby i should wait and see what my opponent does. Fast Puma = Infantry doc.

Maps are quite large, you need alot of mines to cover every choke and only engineers can make them without infantry doc\m8.
Though mines are awesome, placing all your trust in acouple mines to make you win seems... You get the point.
Sticky's won't hit unless your really lucky. And you need 4-5 of them to destroy a PUMA. You slow it down alittle but then your squads allready at 2men, and he has his volks supporting.

Tanktraps at all chokes to enemy base is a more reliable strategy at semois. As long as they don't see you place them and kill you. Just to buy time to get AT guns and M8's ofcourse.

This is not possible on langres or angoville. Unless you try to cover the whole map.

EasyCalic wrote:
Also, paras don't cost fuel, get an AT gun, M8 or rush to get some X-men (wolverines).

Rangers and AT guns don't cost fuel eather? Whats your point? AT-gun and M8 requires fast teching and thus little to no infantry play early on. Since you don't get infantry upgrade by just advancing to tier 2. You need upgrades which depletes your fuel and leaves you with one choice.. Use rangers or get stomped by the Puma.




LAST NOTE:

We all have agreed allready that airborne do not work against PUMA's. So is there any other way than fastteching\chosing infantry doc when you need to counter fast PUMA?

Is 30'Cal viable for PUMA hunting?

Last edited February 28, 2012 at 8:46 PM by Monos

i would doubt it. the only time i use that ability is against PE's halftracks and scout cars. its great against light vehicles, but not light tanks.

Monos wrote:

EasyCalic wrote:
Also, paras don't cost fuel, get an AT gun, M8 or rush to get some X-men (wolverines).

Rangers and AT guns don't cost fuel eather? Whats your point? AT-gun and M8 requires fast teching and thus little to no infantry play early on. Since you don't get infantry upgrade by just advancing to tier 2. You need upgrades which depletes your fuel and leaves you with one choice.. Use rangers or get stomped by the Puma.

Now, look here. You should never have problems with a Puma since those usually should be hitting the field at the same time as your ATs if you didn't spend everything on other things.

If you're getting stomped by a puma, you did something wrong earlier in the game, like relying solely on infantry which, funnily enough, is countered effectively by (who would have guessed?) Pumas. So my point, Monos , is that you're making a mistake somewhere down the line.

I'm guessing you get your rifles some BARs, nades and stickies as soon as you can. Don't. At most you just give them some BARs if you're dominating early game, if that's not the case, forgetting about BARs and teching to motor is practically a must. You can then upgrade stickies to help against vehicles.

As for hunting Pumas, it's been said already that mines do help a lot, so do rangers' bazookas (don't just charge rangers in though, they're infantry too you know?), besides mines, an AT gun or an M8.

And, hey, it also turns out that even if axis isn't rushing pumas, an M8 still gives excellent support to rifles against everything but paks.

Last edited February 28, 2012 at 10:20 PM by EasyCalic

But i like to tech for snipers to countersnipe win engagements. Thats extra fuel used + bars. I usally don't get grenades and reserch sticky's if the PUMA is out before my MP. Since the wehrmacht will cap the whole map if i don't slow them down, and then it's GG.

PIATs and BRENS can take out PUMAS.. Tank-hunters destroy PUMAS and are much quicker to tech for.
Just like the Wehrmachts grenaders destroys that M8 with bazooka, same with PE.

It's only against americans you don't need to support your vehicle with nothing. You can just spam PUMA's ... Use 1 engi-squad with mine-sweeper.. And if he's M8 ain't up in time, you can fortify the perimiter with all the AT you need to counter it. THEN it's GG. Since 2 PUMAs destroy one squad of men in one volley if not unlucky.


Axis ain't forced to skip infantry upgrades to get vehicles, since they got a straight tech-line. Unfair.



Now if you go infantry tree, you don't need vehicles right away and can keep some of your mapcontrol until you tech on up. Since a puma won't rush in towards 2 rangersquads with no support and destroy them. Also when you got mines and stuff on the field and generally try to play smart you can trap the PUMA and destroy it. (unlike airborne)


But you say, WSC shouldn't be used alot, rather start going for vehicles then if i don't go infantry tree.

You do know that snipers are not the only counter to snipers, right?

With barracks you get the, admittedly a bit weak, jeep, it works wonders against snipers, and helps a lot when flanking mgs or supporting rifles against volks. A WSC the beginning is nothing but a liability if you intend to build both it and the barracks.

Also, it's not recommended to have a wsc from the get-go unless you are on a 2v2, for the simple reason that it does not provide Amis with what they need to win in the early game, namely rifles. The usual build order is:

Barracks
Supply D.
Motor pool

If axis is too entrenched with AT guns and bunkers you can then backtech to WSC and get the now helpful and viable mortars and snipers.

While not set in stone, this is usually the ideal way to go for Amis.

Anyways, I repeat and stress, you do not fight pumas with infantry, Pumas eat and shit infantry for breakfast, your best solution is an ATg coupled with some mines and/or a M8.

Also, M8's mines can and will destroy Puma.

Last edited February 28, 2012 at 11:33 PM by EasyCalic

I didnt read EVERYTHING but in you are right in the RR aren't so hot vs Pumas. HOWEVER you should have an M8 by this point or an AT gun from your Motor Pool so it shouldn't really matter just how great RRs are against Pumas. Unless you lost control of the map. Then thats your fault, sorry :P. Just to compare fuel cost if you teched straight for vehicles and skipped T2 wehr (so you don't think its unfair)

US: 15+50+45+30 = 140 total
Wehr: 15+35+50+50+35 = 185 total

So honestly you have no reason to think Wehr is at a fuel advantage. Even if you do get WSC you will have less fuel needs as Wehr. Just use RRs against tanks like StuG and Panther. Even Panzer IV or Ostwind if you must.

Now the AP rounds rounds for the .30 cal WILL kill it, granted it can get enough shots off. BUT it is highly unreliable and extremely situational. Chances are the Puma will just go around you and gun you down. So I recommend using mines to paralyze the Puma. Put one at a choke point or near you MG team (I've done that with AT guns and it worked ;D) to stop the Puma from circling. However this will cost a reasonable amount of muni and I suggest you do it only if you expect to be delayed with your M8.

stealthattack1 wrote:
i would doubt it. the only time i use that ability is against PE's halftracks and scout cars. its great against light vehicles, but not light tanks.

A Puma is not a tank :P. It can take bullet damage (although not alot ofc)

Last edited February 29, 2012 at 12:34 AM by Trannyhunterx

Thanks for the backup, fish. ;D

Trannyhunterx wrote:

US: 15+50+45+30 = 140 total
Wehr: 15+35+50+50+35 = 185 total

Corrected your fuel cost to match Puma rush. Looks like you had a T2-T3 outlook but forgot the 50 cost to tech and 50 to build.

QuoteA Puma is not a tank  :P. It can take bullet damage (although not alot ofc)

thanks, for clearing that up fish, sorry for the confusion, its really an armored car :-[

Cranialwizard wrote:

Trannyhunterx wrote:

US: 15+50+45+30 = 140 total
Wehr: 15+35+50+50+35 = 185 total

Corrected your fuel cost to match Puma rush. Looks like you had a T2-T3 outlook but forgot the 50 cost to tech and 50 to build.

TY for that fix Cranial ;). And that brings up another point. If your opponent get Pumas and M8s are already running around like a pain in the ass he will surely get 75mm upgrade to halt any further M8s. Which means they will be ALOT more ineffective vs Paras and you might simply be able to walk past it since it cant hit you anyways :P

stealthattack1 wrote:

QuoteA Puma is not a tank  :P. It can take bullet damage (although not alot ofc)

thanks, for clearing that up fish, sorry for the confusion, its really an armored car :-[

NP ;)

Puma: 35(skirmish)+50(assault)+35(sturm)+35(puma)=155
ATG: 95FU
M8: 120FU
M10: 195

If you have a little bit of map control, just go for an M10 which will fuck up any pumas. From there just build Shermans and RRs as necessary.

Never go WSC start in a 1v1 IMO. If you're keen on Snipers then go 2-3 rifles, WSC.

The phase bug has been overstated in this thread a little. RRs still counter Pumas, just not as well as zooks. They're vastly better against all tanks though. Airborne + fast TD is doom for Ami T3 IMO. Strafe will smash volks, Sherman will smash all except Stugs, RRs will dominate Stugs. Just work on having a good early/midgame and get some map control. Maybe OP a fuel point if you can find a good one. An example might be the one outside your base on Semois, or the main fuel on Sturz. Make sure you are harassing his fuel if you see lots of MP40 volks and assume a T3 rush.

well put. this pretty much sums it up.