Breakthrough Doctrine- Mechanics

As killar says one mechanics squad will reduce production time 50%. only useful if you have the resources available to take advantage of it though.

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On which map is that useful?

Kalach

Otto wrote:

Quote
On which map is that useful?

Kalach

No. In a majority of maps, there are couple to no bridges at all. MG nest are rarely built simply due to reliability factors when you get into more experienced gameplay.

Blowing bridges in Kalach gets you no where because the other routes are wide open, and blocking the open paths doesn't do anything but lead your enemy to another path so this whole issue seems pointless.

Quote

Yhcrana wrote:
They used to be good when they could build defenses and stuff, you could call them in at the start of the game to block bridges and build MG nests.

In what universe? "Start of the game?" "Bridges?" Sounds like Annihilate, No Pop Cap, High Resources, on Lyon, Vire River, the Scheldt, or some other map of that type. I'm starting to take your suggestions even less seriously as I get the impression you're looking for bountiful Soviet buffs to increase your chances at winning against computer players on Vire River... ???

Yhcrana wrote:
Increased production was always worthless, 3 squads of mechanics wont speed up tank production as much as a Wehrmacht officer... so you could spend the 780 manpower on three squads of mechanics or just 200 manpower and 50 fuel on a second tank hall which would effectively double your production speed.

...just another overzealously nerfed soviet unit really.

several squads of mechanics will not multiplice production. One mechanics squad improves production speed as same as a officer. I guess you lost several games using your taktik.

Yhcrana wrote:
Personally I'd say get rid of the increased tank production and give them an actually useful ability like repairing tank wrecks as a bergetiger does, then they'd be a good unit.

yeah and expremely OP

This.

I think its a matter of preference. I'll just leave it at that :P

@ cranial,

QuoteNo. In a majority of maps, there are couple to no bridges at all. MG nest are rarely built simply due to reliability factors when you get into more experienced gameplay.

Blowing bridges in Kalach gets you no where because the other routes are wide open, and blocking the open paths doesn't do anything but lead your enemy to another path so this whole issue seems pointless.

The majority of maps do not have 3 and a half bridges, you are correct. On Kalach the bridges if interdicted will secure a tidy resource base. The bridges need not be blown to deny the enemy this Third of the map. a string of wire early on followed by tank traps later (with a little more wire work) will deny early infantry penetration and later vehicular incursions, At least till crush is available. In the Case of Kalach such defencing measures should lead the enemy down the bridge crossing of least resistance into a Main Line of Defence or a nasty ambush. Designating an engineer to watch the back door and cut wire to open up AI controlled retreat paths can yield even larger benefits. Even in the event that a player sends his own engineers to clear the path. One on one the engineer working at the wire gets eaten.

You know that you give away your victory if you block flanking possibilitys playing as allies? Axis players will thank you if you run straight into their mg´s.

Although having 2 or 3 bridge maps where it might be benefitial is not a reason to change the mechanics.

Last edited May 30, 2012 at 5:30 AM by Killar

No its not a reason to change mechanics. Defencing is available to several squad types.

My 107mm mortar batteries will handle the Axis MGs. When I'm ready the wire will then come down and Tank Traps allow one way traffic towards the Axis lines.

Killar wrote:
You know that you give away your victory if you block flanking possibilitys playing as allies? Axis players will thank you if you run straight into their mg´s.

Although having 2 or 3 bridge maps where it might be benefitial is not a reason to change the mechanics.

If your enemy is AI it will actually make the game much much easier...
Though I only do that when I am bored because seeing the AI make blob that will be easily decimated by my MGs and Arties is actually fun, make you feel almighty... :P

But of course what you are saying is true, when against human...
Unless robotnik or jojo create a much more advance AI that able to counter this... ;D

Why not playing a 1vs1 vs. human players if you seek a challenge?

Last edited May 30, 2012 at 6:36 PM by Killar

Otto wrote:
No its not a reason to change mechanics. Defencing is available to several squad types.

My 107mm mortar batteries will handle the Axis MGs. When I'm ready the wire will then come down and Tank Traps allow one way traffic towards the Axis lines.

Wher mortar will kill you with it's farther range. And if they don't the snipers will. Or the Panther :P. Of course there are counter to what the AI gets but they can always counter back. It works both ways.

Indeed Cat it works both ways. You can't remain static. I think you are mistaken about the mortar range though. IIRC the 107mm mortar outranges axis counterparts. It may outrange nebels -not sure about that. The damage is excellent. Ground Attack works better then Barrage unless you are tackling a blob. I will assert that Ground Attack grants more shots than Barrage over the course of the recharge cycle. Barrage gives 4 shots? IDK how many shots you get in the same period. -no replay. :) BTW Thankyou.

uhh, just clearing things up, if you guys are talking about wher mortrar, it has increased damage, accuracy, nad fire rate when using barrage. soviet idk.

Im pretty sure Axis mortars will always outrange Allied mortars

stealthattack1 wrote:
uhh, just clearing things up, if you guys are talking about wher mortrar, it has increased damage, accuracy, nad fire rate when using barrage. soviet idk.

The 107mm barrage is pretty devastating in terms of damage. It does scatter though, which makes it good against blobs. Do you know about the scatter effects of the Wher 81mm? Number of rounds per barrage?

When speaking of ground attack  for 107mm Iset the target spot on say a VP and let it auto fire. That seems to foil 3 or 4 out of five attempts of the AI to take it. If you just let the sov mortars idle they will autofire but ususally use barrage fire to do so. That means when I want a quick barrage the mortar is frequently in a state of cooldown. Arrrgh!

I'm not sure what you mean by NAD fire rate?

Its always advised that you use barrage. However the drawbacks of barrage is the target may move, if you order your mortar to barrage a spot outside of its max fire range it'll move, and it won't target anything else until you cancel the barrage order or it finishes.

It's a typo Otto :P. He meant and but put nad.

Corsix indicates that the max range for mortars in general is 75. Wher 81mm  max is 82 Sov. 107mm is 90.  Some CT upgrades modify these values but mainly for CW. Nebels have a humongus range.

Cat wrote:
It's a typo Otto :P. He meant and but put nad.

QFshame.  :-[

I don't think Humongous is a number

500 -9999

M1938 107mm Mortar:

Max/Min range: 90/15.
Damage: 45
Damage Modifiers: N/A.

Gr34 81mm Mortar:
Max/Min range: 85/15.
Damage: 36.
Damage modifiers: N/A.

*The 107 had 2x damage modifiers in previous patches--afaik a carry over from being copied from the M2 60mm Mortar. The M2 actually deals more damage when it hits, because it has a 2x damage modifier against all infantry target types. 20 damage becomes 40, and the increased fire rate means that if you barrage an Axis mortar before you he knows you're there, the higher RoF will kill his mortar before it can counter mortar you or move.

In that case you are correct Otto. My bad :P

Cat wrote:
In that case you are correct Otto. My bad :P

just covering your back fish, the soviet 83mm mortar only out ranges the wher mortar AFTER it is given the 107mm upgrade bought at the soviet Armory. therefore, as a base, the wher mortar has superior range.  ;)

Thanks volskinator. always looking for more mortar data.

QuoteOn which map is that useful?

You're so right... no one would ever build an MG nest, that's such a fail tactic and is completely useless on every map.
Lol, people would actually build MG nests...? Why do those even exist when nobody uses them?

...of course they have a long range, cover a wide area and are the only Heavy Machine Guns the soviets can build. But what do I know?

Quoteseveral squads of mechanics will not multiplice production. One mechanics squad improves production speed as same as a officer. I guess you lost several games using your taktik.

Yeah... that explains why they don't improve production the same as a wehrmacht officer and why I've never lost a game due to that 'taktik'... probably because I'm not a retard that uses mechanics for faster tank production.

Quoteyeah and expremely OP

Aww poor baby... you butthurt about Bergetigers too? Oh teh noes someone is repairing the damaged vehicles exactly like how a mechanic would in real life, how will I's evers recover from dis massively OP gameplay?
...I'll make sure only dose Panzer Elite guys I keep fighting against have this ability! Yes! Dat will solvers my problems!


I am 12 and what does mortars have to do with mechanics?

Mechanics will not ever be able to resurrect vehicles again. It is A) a PE specific feature and B) extremely OP. Berges are OP.

Trolling is unnecessary and just makes you look like a tool.

Mechanics are under review by the balance team but they won't be getting sparkly new abilities like rebuilding wrecks and such.

@Yhcrana:

The MG nest is only so reliable. Its only good to stall an opponent (like it covers a VP and your enemy has like 50 VP left) or to cover a choke point which is generally only on bridge maps which don't really fall into balance (not to say that other maps dont have choke points). SU gameplay doesn't rely on MGs like Wher and US do. PE does fine without it and so can Brits. IMO it was put in there so that people wouldn't be sad about the lack of a suppression unit.

He said it increases speed the same as a Wher officer. Im not sure why you are upset about it still. Its a 25%-50% increase (not sure which number is correct) which can make a big difference. And unlike Wher which house like 4 random units in a building, the Tank Hall houses 6 tank units. And please don't make fun of the way Killar spells words. That's just not nice :(. He can spell pretty well IMO.

Balance takes Priority over Real Life. PE generally consist of a bunch of weak vehicles. SU on the other hand can build an IS-2 or a bunch of T-34s which beats a Panther. PE can call Panthers in but they require a massive amount of teching.

Yhcrana wrote:
But what do I know?

Nothing.

Stop trolling and get out.

Cranialwizard wrote:

Yhcrana wrote:
But what do I know?

Nothing.

Stop trolling and get out.

+ infinity

Cranialwizard wrote:

Yhcrana wrote:
But what do I know?

Nothing.

Stop trolling and get out.

*Giggle

Yhcrana wrote:
But what do I know?

Well if you want to change something you have to say it in a more constructive way. If you just want to annoy people you act like you do now. Normally such a behaviour gets rewarded with a forum ban :)

Last edited June 2, 2012 at 6:56 PM by Killar

I think mechanics would have done better as an outpost addon that works like a repair bunker, good for easing micro load for a little manpower

because atm it seems much more sensible to get some sturmovie ingeneries (esp with double flamers if u play urban doc) that not only repair your tank but also help fight against infantry.

Yeah but that involves alot of teching and resources. Not to say 300 mp is nothing but with stum ingy + dual flames its 400 mp, 25 fuel, and 150 muni IIRC(if you add cost of teching). Also you should keep in mind the popcap and resource drain. AKAIK its less with Mechanics.

Sir wrote:
Yeah but that involves alot of teching and resources. Not to say 300 mp is nothing but with stum ingy + dual flames its 400 mp, 25 fuel, and 150 muni IIRC(if you add cost of teching). Also you should keep in mind the popcap and resource drain. AKAIK its less with Mechanics.

That extra manpower/fuel is well warranted if you consider in that scenario you would use sturmovies as your core infantry.
Its like a storm trooper + flamerthrower + mechanic squad in one + tank traps

e.g
early game ingenery only
mid game upgrade ingenery to sturmovie instead of strelky - cost is basically the same in terms of teching
if urban: double flamer upgrade - turns it into a 4 man rape mob

Yeah but one doesnt go for urban JUST for dual flamers. And you realize blobbing sturms is a bad idea since they have negatve zeal (everyone does it but its still bad ::)). Besides BT has alot better stuff so to make Mechs better would just be overkill.

Mechanics have a better repair rate and increase Tank Hall Production speeds by 50%.

That's all I'm going to say.

Sir wrote:
Yeah but one doesnt go for urban JUST for dual flamers. And you realize blobbing sturms is a bad idea since they have negatve zeal (everyone does it but its still bad ::)). Besides BT has alot better stuff so to make Mechs better would just be overkill.

yeah there's downside of every combination of tactics

i definitely agree BT has a lot going for it, which is why I thought it would be nice if mechs instead of a call in squad might be just an addon for outposts that auto repairs your vehicles nearby. That ways theres more incentive in terms of convenience, but not enough boost to overpower anything

A repair bunk for SU? IDK......:P. I'll leave this to the rest of EF.

Late to the party, but what about a 'lock down' ability where they 'set up' in a specified area and act like a repair bunker, fixing any tanks near them. Unlike a repair bunker, elimination is as simple as killing squad members. On the upside they automatically fix any damaged vehicle in the area and unlike most repair units, they do not have an incoming accuracy modifier while repairing.

I like the elimination of the 3x damage while repairing. Why should I pay 300 mp for one mechanic when I Can get two ing Squads for the same price. even if they cannot repair as fast.
The production bonus is nice but obtaining fuel to make the production time is seldom posible.

Otto wrote:
I like the elimination of the 3x damage while repairing. Why should I pay 300 mp for one mechanic when I Can get two ing Squads for the same price. even if they cannot repair as fast.

This has been argued so much on EF :P. I guess there will be no middle ground. Just a search function :D

I hope this is the right thread.

IS-3 the historical balance Problems
Dont worry is not going to be a whine post about a postwar tank ;)
The advantages of the Is3 is his brutal frontal armor in combination with this speed, so it outclasses the ISU AND every wehrmachttank.
On town maps, for example, you just cant relay on paks and here strats the problem.
The speed of IS3 makes it nearly impossibel  to get on the back of it.
This wouldnt be a problem if the sidearmor would be sidearmor, but in COH sidearomor is 50% chance for frontarmor and a 50%chance for backarmor, if I am rgth, am I?
So there are two things the shell be changed -> slow the tower turning ratio down, just a littel bit -> if it is a littel bit slower, a flanking tank/squads or whatever wouldnt be killed so fast and decrease its sidearmor, dont know if its possible, but my idea would be; increase the backarmor and make sidearmor 100% backarmor
This changes wouldnt effect it so much against PE

Or just give me a 

Just kidding ;D

Last edited July 22, 2012 at 11:59 AM by e-gon

wrong thread :P

After your game against Dennis i checked the IS3 stats. Pak and schrecks penetration against IS3 rear armour needs to be normalized to IS2 rear armour niveau. Your pak mostly bounced.

Last edited July 22, 2012 at 2:56 PM by Killar

I am glad to hear that, but i think its Spacesidearmor is to strong

Does the H38 cannon upgrade have the same penetration against IS# as it does against pershing?

I believe the Hotchkiss upgrade penetrates everything but considering how little dmg it does, I dont think it matters.

Maybe a little buff like allowing the use of Tank Destroyer AP against the Soviets is in order.  BtW I had a TH take out a king tiger  tother day. 57 exp at one shot.

APCR doesnt effect Hotchkiss nor dos it effect Panzer IV. They are meant to be light AT/AI(anti infantry) depending on how u use it. Well Hotchkiss has arty so there's that.

Shark correct me if I'm wrong but then H35 cannon upgrade converts the French Letter opener from  an area effects AI weapon to a penetration effect AT weapon. In which case there is no reason why AP couldn't be applied.

Even though this is the wrong thread:

You are reffering to the APCR ability in the TD doctrine right? That only applies to specific vehicles and even if it did apply to the Hotchkiss I dont see why it would need it. The long barrel upgrade already allows it to penetrate everything so giving it further penetration is pointless. Plus its not like APCR gives it a dmg increase AFAIK. I could be wrong about that one.

And plus I dont think (or at least consider) the Hotchkiss is an area of eff weapon anyways. It kinda meh when it comes to killing infantry. Not like the PIV which has shells that kinda explode