New German Units

Panzer Elite is most likely based on the elite Wehrmacht (regular army) division "Grossdeutschland". They had an even higher priority than the Waffen-SS when it came to equipment. The SS flags and songs aren't really banned in Germany. The Swastika is banned when used in certain ways or purposes (it is allowed to have it historically accurate in a mod for example). What is not allowed is to use the flag publicly or for hate purposes for example.

If I see a flag from communist Russia (which I assume will be in the mod?) I know that that regime has killed even more people than nazi-Germany (so why is this biasness?). I like your ideas btw. I would love if the K5 Leopold rail gun would be included in the mod.


I really hope you will have realistic damage in the mod (for example one or two King Tiger shots is enough to take out a T34 at close range) and that it won't take over a minute for an MG42 to pick off a larger squad.

It would make sense that the elite Wermacht unit would be portrayed by the P.E.  the Grossdeutschland did not engage in the defense of Holland during Market Garden, they were fighting in the defense of Romania.  So either THQ wanted to make the Grossdeutschland and just use Operation Market garden as the scenario to fight the brits or they just don't really care to read into the history.


The ideas I came up with for the Doctrines and Ost Front germans was mainly to counter the britsh defensive build that they have.  In terms of defense I feel that the Axis side is somewhat lacking.    Maybe, perhaps, a german doctrine called something along the lines of "Forgotten Brothers" or something that can let you call in Italian and Romanian units? 

I'll keep thinking of ideas and spitting them out here. 

Concerning sides, why not have the germans as the 11 armee led by Erich Von Manstein, part of army group south.

A nice piece of artillery for the Russians would be the 76.2mm Type 39 Howitzer
Range:14,766yds
Weight of shot:13.75lbs

Read the title: New GERMAN units. ;D

Any developer's thoughts on my ideas?  Pretty quiet on these forums... =[

Sorry, ive been having some internet problems lately. I like the ideas, I know Apex would hate more defences, he thinks it would just create stale mates. But i quiet like it. I've got two books on German and Soviet defences of WW2 (not including the huge defensive lines, other book) and it shows some really cool stuff i would love to implement. Personally i think the Soviets and the German sides should have a nice selection of emplacements and defences. Good assault weapons and tanks etc. as well, but a large selection of defences too. The PaK-36 sounds cool, but sadly i haven't seen Band of Brothers, so im not totally sure what it would be like.

About the SS thing. There was a whole topic about it on Relic.

QuoteWhen legalities say "display" they mean in a public area, a game/Mod is a personal area (while it might be public in offering the use is personal - just as you watch a movie, but if you play it for money and invite the public you get into trouble).

Um, Apex was behind EiR which is nearly instant battle. Of course he hates defences, honestly I think he just doesn't like buildings in general. ;D

Apex wasn't exactly behind EiR. I mean the creator and founder is Fldash. But yeh, i don't think he's a great fan of anything static.

Well I think defense is as important as offense.  It gives the player another strategy to work with.  Like I hate having to pick the luftwaffe branch as P.E. if I want any kind of static defense.  And with my other ideas, even with the defensive structure there is still a lot of units that would help in a good strong offense.  But this is a suggestion forum..so if you guys got some better ideas I can't wait to see them.

i like jhonnyraygun's ides but his lufftwaffe usgjestion is a bit od cuse it wouldent work with airsuport on both sides, what would u call tehm? airsuport 1 and 2? and i dont think any fighters will be nesecary cuse air battles isent that big. but i like the opel blitz ideas realy cool, i just wonder how you think: will the truck go to the site and build the structure or will it jump out a cuple of pioners and build it and then jump on the truck again? and i realy think all teams shuld be able to build trenches with basic inantery.

Well they were ideas while I was bored.  The Storch would be a good idea.  As for the bf109's its a situational trait.  For instance, if the player is using the airborne command tree, the bf109's could shoot down the p47s and possibly the paras and atg.  It would give you a window of opportunity to attack with air cover.  And I say this because as it stands right now AA guns are not for planes but infantry.  It's uncommon to shoot down a plane as is and when you do it's usually after it's done it's damage with no penalty to the player (IE like a longer cooling period for losing a plane)

actually if the axis do ostwindspam or have 88s, there is a strategy like letting th eplane deliberately crash on their siede evrytime. that can happen if u let the plane fly directly ove rthe pe base and the flak88. it can crash the whole 88 sometimes. it only costs mun if it kills something. if it doesn#t its free, so you can order a dozen of them. if you are fast the 88 is gone in a matte rof seconds

thats why shooting planes is not a good idea. we should keep it like vcoh. its no airplane simulator after all. also bf109 was obsolete in 1943, betteruse fw190 or me262 or me163. fw190 yould also make a bombingrun. but better would indeed be the stuka kanonenvogel, which was much more commonly used in antitank than the henschel.

Last edited October 26, 2008 at 12:35 AM by SniperHans

perhaps u could include the maus? Yes it was ridiculously big and never really made the batterfield, but one did fight in Berlin when it came off it's production line. 8 points or so

A kettenkrad with two people on the back with mp44s as a tier one scout

Nashorn flamethrower variant (better at than a usual flamethrower)

Very suprinsingly Ive read the whole new german unit article and havent seen any suggestions on the panzerII which did not stop production during Barbarossa until 1943. As for artillery I have a idea about being able to create the LEhf 75 howitzer, which on the Eastern front was used as a antitank in 1942-1945. You really dont need to create the LEfh becuase BotB mod has already done that so you could borrow it from them.

Howabout the Sturmpanzer 4 aka. Brummbaer.  It's much like the sturmtiger from Botb mod but using a panzer4 chassis thus having reduced armor but faster speed. It could be called in as a reinforcement from the arty doctrine. Basically its like the P.E. Hummel. AND it saw action in kursk so its relevant to the E.F mod.

Well this thread has risen from the grave hasn't it  :P

Well the Panzer II, albeit the "Flammingo" varient, has been included in 2 of the Ostheer idea threads, as has a type of howitzer, the most likely to be used will be the one included in the ToV campaign.

The Sturmtiger has also been mentioned in both of the large Ostheer threads at the moment, plus a model or two already exists, so it would be much more likely to be included  :)

Cheers

about those SS u could include them in one of the doctrine as foreign waffen-ss (like guys from french "charlemagne" ,latvian legionaires or scandinavian "wiking" divisions).they could be 5 man group armed with g43 and leader of the group with stg44, they could be upgraded with 2 mg42's or whole gruoup with stg44 and abilities like camouflage,panzefaust strike(shooting 2 or 3 panzerfausts at same time that coud cost 100 munition points and cooldown for 2 minutes) and  ability called "crusade against bolshevism" so they are imposible to be suppresed or be pinned by red army for some time and could cost ~50 munition points. P.S sorry for my bad english

for the germans the Estonians Volunteers SS Group

I like the idea of implementing the " SdKfz. 3 „Maultier“ " with Nebelwerfer-42-upgrade.^^


Now a little bit more serious:

The SdKfz 253

Its mission is to observe the enemy - with an hugh area of sight it can observe from Berlin to Moskow and give the own artillery wonderful sight.
It can detect camoflaged units and call in some mortar-barrage.
But itself got no armament and less plating so it is very vulnerable.

The special passive ability: it can auto-camoflage after 10secs still standing in Cover (like the Goliath, but it can get detected^^).

So its a wonderful support-unit, but it got its weaknesses.

Last edited August 23, 2009 at 6:34 PM by Weste

See the Elefant was a nice surprise for me. But see Panzer IV, STUG IV and halftrack : already in the game... I wish Ostheer will be very different than WM & PE.

So, this is a list of german vehicle used in WWII. All vehicle name wich start by * are not yet in the game. Try to use it. For example Panzer III was often used for covering Tiger (or Panzer IV) (with a ratio of two Panzer III for one Tiger), but Relic had never the idea to put it in the game.

BMW R12
*Kübelwagen
*Opel Blitz – Kfz 79          (A medic truck will be nice ^^)
*Auto-Union/Horch 109 Typ 40– Kfz. 31 “Sanka”
SdKfz 2 Kettenkrad
SdKfz 11
SdKfz 250
SdKfz 251
SdKfz 252
SdKfz 253
SdKfz 254
*Leichter Panzerspähwagen SdKfz. 221
*Leichter Panzerspähwagen SdKfz. 222
*Leichter Panzerspähwagen
SdKfz. 223
*Schwerer Panzerspähwagen
SdKfz. 231
*Schwerer Panzerspähwagen SdKfz. 232
*Schwerer Panzerspähwagen SdKfz. 233 Stummel
Schwerer Panzerspähwagen SdKfz. 234 Puma
*Schwerer Panzerspähwagen SdKfz. 263
French Hotchkiss H38
*Panzerkampfwagen I
*Panzerkampfwagen II
*Panzerkampfwagen III
Panzerkampfwagen IV
Panzerkampfwagen V Panther
Panzerkampfwagen V Panther
Panzerkampfwagen VI Tiger
Panzerkampfwagen VI
Königstiger
*Panzerkampfwagen 35(t)
*Panzerkampfwagen 38(t)
*Wespe
Hummel
*Grille
*Panzerwerfer Maultier
*Sturmgeschütz III
Sturmgeschütz IV
Sturmgeschütz III Sturmhaubitze 42
*Sturmpanzer IV Brummbär
*Sturmtiger
*Panzerjäger I
*Marder I
*Marder II
Marder III
Jagdpanzer 38(t) Hetzer
*Jagdpanzer IV
Jagdpanzer V Jagdpanther
Nashorn
*Jagdpanzer VI Jagdtiger
*Jagdpanzer Elefant
*Flakpanzer IV Möbelwagen
Flakpanzer IV Wirbelwind
Flakpanzer IV Ostwind
*Flakpanzer IV Kugelblitz
*Flakpanzer 38(t)

The Wermacht and the panzer Elite have both Panzer IV and Panther. Also, you can choose to put only one vehicle already use. A Doctrine used only one time which give you a Tiger and two Panzer III is a nice idea for example. With Wermacht you can have only once a KoenigTiger or create Tiger when you want if you have not a Tiger on the map. Ostheer doctrine will be a little diferent because it create a basic Tiger and an escort of two little Panzer III but only once.

Good luck for your work.

*Leichter Panzerspähwagen SdKfz. 221
*Leichter Panzerspähwagen SdKfz. 222
-> Both are in the game  ;) Panzer Elite.

But their is no StuH because their wasn a
StuH on the Panzer IV.

*Marder I

Its the Geschutzwagen from ToV.

*Sturmpanzer I Bison.

Self propelled arty on the chassis of a Panzer I.

I believe that for a heavier recon unit that might stand up to armored cars would be the panzer II. Albeit not an extremely fast tank (Averaging around 40 Km/h), it might compare in fire power. It has a 2 cm KwK 30 L/55 Ausf.A–f and a 2 cm KwK 38 L/55 Ausf.J–L. This would be a good early tank to combat the Stuart and armored cars. I think that being such an incredibly week unit it's main advantages would be early armor and a low cost. The low cost being that they where already in service for some time and are in reserve.
What do you guys think?

what do u guys think about ability for finnish ski troops to booby trap buildings and strategic points?

i thought their will be ONLY german units in the ostheer?
so why do you talk about finnish ski soldiers  ???

Ski troops? Surely not :P We couldn't make them Ski for a start, and on non-snow maps they'd just look ridiculous.
If we're including any Finns (and thats a big IF... although there is increasing demand for and I'd hate to dissapoint but its not up to me) I'm in favour of having the Finnish Jalkavaki as a call in squad. Elite troops that can build defences, similar to the Luftwaffe ground forces.

I found some pretty unique German vehicles for the Ostheer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kugelblitz

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heuschrecke

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_I

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marder_II

They would add some variety from the other German factions.

The main reason I want the Russians is because I want NEW UNITS, So when you the Developers for this amazing game start choosing vehicles for the Ostheer please, PLEASE dont use the same units as in Wer and PE, aka Panthers, shreks, MP44s,
btw, Nice Ideas for new German vehicles, Here's afew ideas, some from other mods,

88mm Pak 43 In a Bunker,
http://www.moddb.com/mods/nhcmod/images/88mm-pak-43#imagebox

German Sd. Kfz. 251/22 Hanomag with PaK 40 Anti-Tank Gun,
yea, Its a PE Light-AT Halftrack on steroids, but it looks 100% Badass


German - 2cm Flak 30 Light Anti-Aircraft Gun, Remember saving Private Ryan?

the uber at halfy thing would make for a nice AT vehichle seeing as you guys did want to add something like that if i recall from earlier with your questions on hetzer or marder 3, and besides this thing looks 100% bad ass

I like the Heuschrecke... shame only 10 prototypes were ever made. Not that it would stop us, we already have a prototype T-90 for the Soviets. Could be a call in vehicle, similar to the StuH (since they both seem to have 105mm guns).

Last edited September 8, 2009 at 7:00 AM by BurroDiablo

FriendlyFire wrote:
The main reason I want the Russians is because I want NEW UNITS, So when you the Developers for this amazing game start choosing vehicles for the Ostheer please, PLEASE dont use the same units as in Wer and PE, aka Panthers, shreks, MP44s,
btw, Nice Ideas for new German vehicles, Here's afew ideas, some from other mods,

An eastern front without the Panther? Without Panzerschreck? I think this is a problem because both weaponsystems were very important for the easter front.
What would be a battle of kursk without the Panther? ;)

We'll probably make new skins and variations for the Panthers, PanzerIV, Shreks and stuff that are currently in game. I'm in favour of adding new units and weapons, but currently there's not much else that's fresh (not like the Jagdpanzer, Sturmtiger, Maultier, etc that have been done by other mods)  other than early war Tanks, the 300mm Nebelwerfer/Raketenwerfer, and maybe the MG-34.

And don't even start to think about suggesting the Maus... dunno how many times that's been mentioned. Too many.

Last edited September 8, 2009 at 12:25 PM by BurroDiablo

What is with the Nashorn? The StuG III? Panzer III? And so on ^^ I think that their are a lot of tanks for the german ostheer, but some of the old tanks should be inclouded too.

i came whit the maus >< and now i have a new idea :the Bergepanther. that could tow tanks out of the battle line and repair the (not make a scrap 1 to a new tank but just fix em)

what about the ratte tank????

Huge fortress tank.

Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte

Last edited September 8, 2009 at 4:56 PM by scyflex

QuoteSo when you the Developers for this amazing game start choosing vehicles for the Ostheer please, PLEASE dont use the same units as in Wer and PE, aka Panthers, shreks, MP44s,
btw

+1

Panzer II and II will be nice. Keep only the Panzer IV. A common tank beetween german factions it's nice.

MrScruff wrote:

Damn, you guys are quick on the draw,

ok, seeing another Pz4, or Panther is not a total loss, less time to bring the army into action, ;D

Still, bending the rules is fine by me,


Still dont want to add the italian army?

Last edited September 8, 2009 at 7:29 PM by FriendlyFire

German Ostheer  ::)

Their are enought german units and weapons
and perhaps all of us are happy when we will se
a new, correct panther or kingtiger xD
kingtiger with henschelturret were very cool  ;D

Last edited September 8, 2009 at 8:53 PM by Lord Rommel

BurroDiablo wrote:
Ski troops? Surely not :P We couldn't make them Ski for a start, and on non-snow maps they'd just look ridiculous.
If we're including any Finns (and thats a big IF... although there is increasing demand for and I'd hate to dissapoint but its not up to me) I'm in favour of having the Finnish Jalkavaki as a call in squad. Elite troops that can build defences, similar to the Luftwaffe ground forces.

yeah i was thinking those jalkavaki's  ;) if u guys add them to ostheer i think they should be something like stormtroopers with ability to booby trap buildings and other stuff

exist a legend about the Maus in battle.
Let's make a Maus unit.

some ppl do seem to like the maus, lol.
it's almost obsessive behaviour.

Our mod is not historical already as I see. So why do not add something unhistorical?

Being so big, pathfinding for the Maus will be almost impossible on most maps. Also lets be honest, it is a bit over-the-top for a skirmish.

a maus should destroy a sherman tank in 1 shot from the back and rear, amd a pershin tank in 2 shots.

i remember a reply like : put it in the campain lets do that

yea, I mean the tanks at the end of the British Campaign were really super tanks right?

So, why not one Big Boss Battle for fun?