Pak 40 dragged by Sdkfz. 9

THIS IS A REAL SUGGESTION, IT'S SERIOUS


Instead of giving the Pak 40 a cammo ability my suggestion is to make the Sdkfz. 9 beeing able to drag it around and have the crew on it's back or inside it while it is beeing transported giving the big AT gun more moveability.

Pictures from the war with a German half-track of 'Großdeutschland' Division towing a 7.5 cm PaK 40 anti-tank gun, Russia, 1943.

http://ww2db.com/image.php?image_id=8249


Another picture from soviet russia with an SdKfz. 10 half-track vehicle towing a 7.5 cm Pak 40 anti-tank gun, Russia, Jun 1944

http://ww2db.com/image.php?image_id=8212


Though animations in the start might be abit stiff it is possible and also Unique for the OSTHEER and really cool for getting for big and slow PAK 40 that has a huge punch to the EASTERN FRONT.


^{Don't flame me this time please, this post is for real and the unit\ability concept is worked out and is most likely possible to add. It's unique, accurate to history, would look amasing with some work and be fun!}

no

Would you animate this?

If i knew how to animate anything i would have. Don't the team have\know any skillfull animators?

Can't you use the old animation of the pak and just have it follow the vehicle at increased speed\remove crew. Futher modelling would be changing the model of the pak to have the support feet going more directly backwards towards the vehicle.

The crew on the Sdkfz. 9 could atleast be done. They made tank-riders didn't they?

Last edited September 15, 2011 at 1:09 PM by Monos

Monos wrote:
If i knew how to animate anything i would have. Don't the team have\know any skillfull animators?

then no

Monos wrote:
THIS IS A REAL SUGGESTION, IT'S SERIOUS


Instead of giving the Pak 40 a cammo ability my suggestion is to make the Sdkfz. 9 beeing able to drag it around and have the crew on it's back or inside it while it is beeing transported giving the big AT gun more moveability.

Pictures from the war with a German half-track of 'Großdeutschland' Division towing a 7.5 cm PaK 40 anti-tank gun, Russia, 1943.

http://ww2db.com/image.php?image_id=8249


Another picture from soviet russia with an SdKfz. 10 half-track vehicle towing a 7.5 cm Pak 40 anti-tank gun, Russia, Jun 1944

http://ww2db.com/image.php?image_id=8212


Though animations in the start might be abit stiff it is possible and also Unique for the OSTHEER and really cool for getting for big and slow PAK 40 that has a huge punch to the EASTERN FRONT.


^{Don't flame me this time please, this post is for real and the unit\ability concept is worked out and is most likely possible to add. It's unique, accurate to history, would look amasing with some work and be fun!}

Ok you've identified the biggest problem here already and that's the animation.  It is exceptionally difficult to get the animation for this to work correctly.  Now the Battle of the Bulge did this to a certain degree and TBH it didn't look the great. 

Not that i have anything against BOTB, its an awesome mod but, the towed weapons looked pretty odd.  This isn't so much to do with the mod team though its much more to do with the base engine the game is built on.  If you want to try and make the engine do something it wasn't originally designed to do it is extremely difficult.  Just ask the dev team about the amount of problems that trying to add an extra faction caused. 

So as cool as the idea is i'm not sure how practical it would be. 

p.s we have a thread for Ostheer suggestions: http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=3001.0

Ah sorry! Forgot there is an own thread for units and such.

So it's tried in a different Mod? But they might have made a model with HT and PAK on it. That would probably be very stiff. What if you don't make a new model or animation, just use the old ones first and try to make it follow the HT.

So that it still is two units, thus the animation over craters and cliffs won't be stiff.

Oh i wish i knew how to do such things so i could test that theory.



Still the idea is good even though it's hard to make it work.

Last edited September 15, 2011 at 1:18 PM by Monos

Currently, you could say that this option is being "developed" by some members of the RelicNews community, however this is not an easy task.

Monos wrote:Don't the team have\know any skillfull animators?

I would wish we have at least animators, I wouldn't ask for skillful ones :'(. We only have hartkeks, but he's very busy in RL and he cannot help us for now. Tiger help us sometimes, but lately has been busy. Heck, if we at least had animators available, the second sneaky peaky video would be around :P.

Monos wrote:So it's tried in a different Mod? But they might have made a model with HT and PAK on it. That would probably be very stiff. What if you don't make a new model or animation, just use the old ones first and try to make it follow the HT.

That's not going to work. CoH engine doesn't work in the way one wants, hence we say the engine has some limitations. As we don't have enough staff on that area, probably we will never try to figure it out by ourselves (or will we :P?).

Btw, AFAIK, the only problem with this is that the crew refuses to hide.

Last edited September 15, 2011 at 3:26 PM by blackbishop

Monos wrote:
^{Don't flame me this time please, this post is for real and the unit\ability concept is worked out and is most likely possible to add. It's unique, accurate to history, would look amasing with some work and be fun!}

No, Its not unique. Use the search function. ::)

blackbishop wrote: Btw, AFAIK, the only problem with this is that the crew refuses to hide.

You mean that the crew will be sitting behind the AT gun while the car drags it? Or?  ???


Sad to hear about the lack of animators. I can't model nor animate.
:-\ When it comes to creativity i'm mostly a music maker\producer and text writer.

Some of my old work:
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=8583932 - CnC Soundtrack
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=8583955 - Another Soundtrack
http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=8403281 - Rock sounding hip-hop beat

Need me for anything just tell me.

QuoteNo, Its not unique. Use the search function.

:P LoL, it's more unique than cammo like the Pak38 got. And unique in that it ain't in the game for any of the other factions :P

Last edited September 15, 2011 at 3:53 PM by Monos

;)

Btw, having camo on the PaK36 is not about making it unique or not, it's a balance decision; it's damage won't be as much as the PaK38 so it would need camo. You need to understand why things are being planned like that before just claiming that something is "unoriginal".

Last edited September 15, 2011 at 4:00 PM by blackbishop

:o :o Me likey

blackbishop wrote:

;)

Haha, i see. That should be fixable when they find the cause i think :)

Now i haven't seen that unit in action but something tells me that if the truck moves the AT gun will be totally stiff and turn as if it was an extention of the car? Right or not?

QuoteBtw, having camo on the PaK36 is not about making it unique or not, it's a balance decision; it's damage won't be as much as the PaK38 so it would need camo. You need to understand why things are being planned like that before just claiming that something is "unoriginal".

It could get faster fire or a such ability. It's also probably cheeper than the Pak38 and it might turn faster since it's job is to counter fast early tier Armor that will try to flank it if it aint defended well. It's also smaller and for a 3 person crew probably faster to move around the map. And if cammo on the 36 and 40 still is beeing discussed and that it ain't decided to have that ability It might get changed.

:D So thats up for discussion as i think balancing can be dealth with in another way  :)

Last edited September 15, 2011 at 4:22 PM by Monos

... where did you get this pic?  :o I want this in BotB!

You can read the whole thing here:

http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?245238-Collective-Problem-Solving-Towing-and-multiple-crewed-gun-sync-files

@Monos
In fact, they said it doesn't worth it, because looks like it's pretty difficult.

QuotePersonally, I don't think it's worth the effort, as you would have to take into account the terrain in order for it to look right, and I don't think that's possible.

:'(



A Pak 36 with sielgranate 41 was used, that could be an ability for it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stielgranate_41

Quotewhen Germany invaded the USSR, the gun was next to useless when confronted with Russian T-34 or KV-series tanks. It was successively replaced by larger calibre weapons, like the 5 cm PaK 38, but there were never enough of them, so it was decided to enhance the capability of the PaK 36 by providing it with new ammunition.[1]

Ammunition ability?


AS FOR THE PAK 40

QuoteThe PaK 40 was much heavier than the PaK 38, decreasing its mobility to the point where it was difficult or impossible to move without an artillery tractor on boggy ground.

If we can't move it with vehicles we might have it buildable on the field or it could actually use the Cammo.

So the Pak40 might use cammo because it's so big that placing it will be really important. But the Pak36 shouldn't need it since it's a mobile little piece of equipment.

From a strategic point of view

This will make the decition to upgrade the Pak36 a tougher one.. So when the IS-3 roles out, you should probably upgrade for the extra firepower. But if i fight a more mobile force you probably should not since it will get easily outflanked.


Source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.5_cm_Pak_40

Interresting facts:

QuoteInfantry have even immobilised tanks using a set of plates covered with leaves and dirt as dummy mines (the ruse being augmented by the crew's obscured vision). Infantry can then attack the stopped tank. This tactic was taught to the British Home Guard during World War II since they were not often provided with long-range anti-tank weapons.
In some cases in World War II, a tactic of the some infantry was to run directly up to a tank, avoiding their main and machine guns, and pour petroleum over and into the tank and light it, sometimes blocking the exit, burning the crew alive. Used by Soviet and German infantry respectively.

Last edited September 15, 2011 at 5:06 PM by Monos