Which is better: Guards or Naval Infantry?

So, which is better? Naval Infantry seem to do well in close range with their SVT 40s, while Guards do well in range. But which is better? Against infantry which is better? Against light vehicles who can do that more easily?

Well for me both are OP, especially guards. Chose them and have fun :). But if want better gun to destroy vehicles, chose naval.

I've heard that they will be toned down in the next patch.  Guards will be anti-infantry and can choose between two weapon sets.  NI will be more specialized, and they will be able to choose between two weapon sets, too, although 1 set will be anti-infantry, and the other weapon set will focus on AT purposes, like Storms with either StG44 or Panzershrecks.

sounds cool :) Finally Guards won't be easy to spam OP unit that owns PG MP44 blobs with ease.

I think gaurds are better because their RPG nades destroy heavy tanks easily but guards are more manpower so it depends on  the situation for me. I know this two Q I'm about ask are off topic and one will piss some people off.1Q can command squads get vet 3. 2Q i know what lord rommel said OSTHEER IS DONE WHEN IT'S DONE but will the update be anytime soon like the end of this month or next month plz don't rape me  with replys ):

FOXYJAGER wrote:
I think gaurds are better because their RPG nades destroy heavy tanks easily but guards are more manpower so it depends on  the situation for me. I know this two Q I'm about ask are off topic and one will piss some people off.1Q can command squads get vet 3. 2Q i know what lord rommel said OSTHEER IS DONE WHEN IT'S DONE but will the update be anytime soon like the end of this month or next month plz don't rape me  with replys ):

Command squad can get vet 3 and it also gains xp from Its arti strikes so Im suprised that you even ask.
As far as I know Ostheer is still far away, far longer than 2 months. This is not only becouse Devs resources are limited but also becouse they dont want to release a buggy, unballanced fraction (like 1.00 Soviets).

The OH is still in an alpha stage, being designed, coded etc. The next stage will be the closed beta, where we as a balance team will beat them into better shape. Then there will be a (reasonably) open beta where donors and select other community members will add to the number of testers. This will further help the balance team identify problems before release that we may not have picked up on. Finally, they will be released to the public. OH is still currently in the alpha phase. They have a long way to go yet.

In both 1.4 and the next patch guards are better than NI in my opinion. Both are OP in 1.4 but balanced in 1.41.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
The OH is still in an pre-alpha stage, being designed, coded etc. The next stage will be the closed betaalpha, where we as a balance team will beat them into better shape. Then there will be a (reasonably) openclosed beta where donors and select other community members will add to the number of testers. This will further help the balance team identify problems before release that we may not have picked up on. Finally, they will be released to the public. OH is still currently in the pre-alpha phase. They have a long way to go yet.

Corrected the wording, bold means added with, strike means it shouldn't be there.

so, there isn't a better unit?

No, I stated my opinion that Guards are better than NI in both patch versions - the publically available 1.4 patch and the 1.41 patch that we're currently working on.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
In both 1.4 and the next patch guards are better than NI in my opinion. Both are OP in 1.4 but balanced in 1.41.

YES!!!!!

GodlikeDennis wrote:
No, I stated my opinion that Guards are better than NI in both patch versions - the publically available 1.4 patch and the 1.41 patch that we're currently working on.

so what's the point of calling NI then? Elite infantry, available only for 1 doctrine is weaker than easier to get Guards? Shouldn't be that in different way?

RedGuard wrote:
next patch both guards and naval are useless

Someone explain me the sense to have a "Balancer" like this please...

RedGuard wrote:
next patch both guards and naval are useless

Your comments have been useless ever since you are not part of the balance team anymore. Quit trolling please.

Moonwalker wrote:

RedGuard wrote:
next patch both guards and naval are useless

Someone explain me the sense to have a "Balancer" like this please...

He's not a balancer:

Tico_1990 wrote:

RedGuard wrote:
next patch both guards and naval are useless

Your comments have been useless ever since you are not part of the balance team anymore. Quit trolling please.

He's a troll. Just ignore him. Eventually he'll realize we don't give a flying fuck anymore. He's having a pissy fit that some soviet units received a nerf in 1.4 in order to give the game a more balanced structure.

RedGuard you were banned from the sandbox. What the fuck do you know anyway?

Back on topic:

cephalos wrote:

GodlikeDennis wrote:
No, I stated my opinion that Guards are better than NI in both patch versions - the publically available 1.4 patch and the 1.41 patch that we're currently working on.

so what's the point of calling NI then? Elite infantry, available only for 1 doctrine is weaker than easier to get Guards? Shouldn't be that in different way?

That's dennis' opinion.

In MY Opinion I feel like Guards are a better unit, HOWEVER, Naval Infantry are more cost effective and versatile. To give Guards good firepower you need to sink some heavy munitions and some fuel into them to get DP-28 and SVT's. Navals, on the other hand, already come with SVTs, and can be upgraded with either DP-28 package or PRTD-41 AT Package. Since all that guards carry in the AT department are krak grenades this is a nice pick-and-choose type of gameplay.

I use navals as a crutch if you are going for the T3 armor rush and backtech for Guards later, because Conscripts just won't cut it with vetted grens and PE HT's and AC's. When you rush for armor you put yourself in great danger of these so you need some heavier variant of infantry, and that's where the Navals step in, they can effectively engage at all ranges and PRTD packages eat IHTs, MHTs, and ACs for lunch. Not to mention DP-28s are currently one of the most powerful infantry held weapons in the game. They also carry molotovs which are nice to draw out squads from cover.

This of course forces you to pick propaganda doctrine if you want navals as your crutch.

RedGuard wrote:
next patch both guards and naval are useless

Not this again...  Apparently, getting your ass handed to you once isn't enough.  Hurry up and find the balls you need to 1v1 Dennis in vCoH.  I can't wait for the replays to be posted here.

Apperently you cant compare NI and Guards 1:1

NI come earlier and are different equipped. The ability to call in NI´s gives you another strategy which can surprise axis alot

Killar wrote:
Apperently you cant compare NI and Guards 1:1

NI come earlier and are different equipped. The ability to call in NI´s gives you another strategy which can surprise axis alot

Really? I find Guards more useful to use. I get Shock Guards upgrade, and Dp28 is excellent. They're such great supporters of Su 122, ISU 152, KV 2, you get it.

forget 1.40 Guard stats :P

I agree. NI are a good early call in unit.

There are insufficient differences between Guards and Naval Infantry to make a judgement of good, better, best. Both units are just variations on a theme. The argument that was offered that supported NI for an early Tank Rush doesn't make sense. You get the Guards unlocked going with a Tank Rush Strat anyway.

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Aesthetics aside the only justification for two Sov Elites is that it  allows better AI play. The AI will produce elite infantry. It would be  nice if the AI could have its production builds tweaked to build armor and call-in Infantry, (or vice versa if Breakthrough is chosen).

Last edited August 8, 2011 at 1:06 PM by Otto 213

Otto wrote:
The argument that was offered that supported NI for an early Tank Rush doesn't make sense. You get the Guards unlocked going with a Tank Rush Strat anyway.

To unlock guards you must purchase both a T2 upgrade and a T3/T4 upgrade. You can't build the Tank Hall and get light armor and magically unlock Guards.

At that point you'd need to backtech to get Guards, so Navals are a good stop gap for in-between, as conscripts just won't cut it.

They also function a little differently. Guards are good offensively and defensively, while NI are (now) mostly used in a defensive role. Think of them more as a heavy weapons specialist, rather than elite or assault infantry.

With the new patch out, which is better? I haven't tried out Guards or Naval Infantry quite yet.

Well with 1.5 both Guards and NI are less numerous, mostly Guards. But Guards have more hp. NI can now get 2 DP mg's, potentially making them better. But shock guards allow Guards to get ppsh or dp mg. So I would say Guards are still better. But not as much as b4.

Just to clarify, Guards get PPS smgs as upgrade after they get Shock Guards upgrade (not ppsh and dp28, those are for strelky).

Last edited August 27, 2011 at 7:40 PM by blackbishop

My bad :-[. I only used them once.

I'm ashamed XD! you partially were right, Shock Guards are given a special DP-28! But as part of Shock Guard bonii, not as a separate upgrade. But I forgot that part.

:-[Ill try using my elites more blackbishop ;D

blackbishop wrote:
I'm ashamed XD! you partially were right, Shock Guards are given a special DP-28! But as part of Shock Guard bonii, not as a separate upgrade. But I forgot that part.

Is this special DP-28 the "Shoot on the Scoot" variety or something else? I ask the same question of the NI's DP-28?

Yes, Guards' DP-28 works on the move; NI & Strelky use a nearly identical variant, just that theirs doesn't fire on the move.

My observations of PG/ST44 and Gds/pps/DP-28 indicate PGs are more effective on the move then the Gds. Do the stats support this conclusion or is it a biased conclusion on my part?

Shock Guards allow Guards the ability to use their DP-28 while on the move. That's extremely powerful and excruciating against the enemy because no other faction can do such a thing (Run and gun with heavy LMG, Don't remember if BARS can but they are not as powerful as LMG42/DP-28)

Cranialwizard wrote:
Shock Guards allow Guards the ability to use their DP-28 while on the move. That's extremely powerful and excruciating against the enemy because no other faction can do such a thing (Run and gun with heavy LMG, Don't remember if BARS can but they are not as powerful as LMG42/DP-28)

Hooray for BAR being inferior to DP28. Does Dp-28 have less accuracy on the move?

Last edited September 13, 2011 at 7:07 PM by irik

All weapons have less accuracy on the move.

Will Svt 40 upgrade be cheaper when Shock Guards is developed? I think it should be cheaper cause the Shock Guard load out is 2 mosin nagants, 1 svt 40, and 1 DP28.

irik wrote:
Will Svt 40 upgrade be cheaper when Shock Guards is developed? I think it should be cheaper cause the Shock Guard load out is 2 mosin nagants, 1 svt 40, and 1 DP28.

SVT40 Upgrade replaces all mosins with a SVT40. This means you will have a DP-28 and 3 SVT40s. Or at least that's how I remember we agreed on.

PPS 43 upgrades and SVT upgrades all cost the same. But before getting SVT upgrades, the Shock Guard loadout is 1 DP 28, 1 SVT 40, and 2 Mosins. 2 rifles are replaced. With PPS 43 upgrade, 3 rifles are replaced. So why do the upgrades cost the same if a different amount of weapons are replaced? They come (with or without upgrade) with 1 SVT 40. The upgrade gives them only 2 more.

Dude, when you get a Stormtrooper squad, it has 3 kar98ks and 1 MP44, however when you purchase both MP44 upgrades, it gets 4 MP44s and not three, because the squad leader weapon is not a real MP44. It's slightly stronger than a kar98k but weaker than a real MP44.

It's the same with guards. The squad leader has a SVT that has the same stats than the standard mosin.

Oh. Squad leader does have a fake SVT.

irik wrote:
Oh. Squad leader does have a fake SVT.

A decoy if you will ;D

True. It tricked me definitely.

I don't blame you, it doesn't specify that it's a weak svt, but neither the Stormtrooper leader's MP44 does :).

Or Volks and Gren MP44 for that matter ;)

Uh, Gren with Mp-44 ? Really ? fish  :o :P

Yeah. One has MP44 other 3 have Kar98 :P. Or at least thats what I saw ???. Some one (other than Mr.Q) confirm this  :P

Edit: Never mind I found a pic. From COH wiki :D Look at the one in the middle. ;)

@Mr.Q: Never doubt the all mighty FISH!!!!!!! ;D 8) ;D

Last edited September 25, 2011 at 1:46 PM by Fishhunterx

That's strange, i thought they have 4 K98s.

The squad leader MP44 just looks like one. In reality it's a very slightly better gren K98.

what the crap? So the MP44 in Grens, Volks, and Storms are there for looks? SVT 40 is there for looks on the Guard? What about the M1 Carbine riflemen have?

Landser MP40 should better not be a better Mauser.

The Landser MP40 / MP44 upgrade is the most retarded thing I've ever seen.  Whoever thought of that idea should be shot for utter stupidity.  I don't know if anyone in their right mind that would pay 50 munitions for a single MP40 / MP44, even if its the "real one".