Naval Infantries in next patch ( i hope so)

There is nothing wrong about the NI mode supplementling they all look good but something make me concern is their equipment. In my mind a start, the NIs should have only 5 Mosins and 1 PPS-43, because NIs are not marines, they are just sailors who fight as gruond troops and so that their equipment and experient should be as equal to strelkies and their call in price should be reduce to 300-320. Then to the uprade, in the Armory you should change the Petrobomb upgrade to Individual weaponry supplement (of course cost higher than the Pbomb the price should be 75 ammu and 25 fuel)which allow the petrobombs to Cons, strek, NI, F-1 grenade and smoke grenade for the Guards and open up abilities like conscript ( 0 vet) will shoot faster, Streks will be able to upgrade to PPSh(reduce to 40 ammu) and PPS-43(45 ammu) for NIs. Secondly, you should add the Support weaponry(75 ammu) that will unlock the DPs(50 ammu) for the strek and 2 DPs, 4 SVT-40(75 ammu and rename the heavy weapon pack to support weapon pack) for the NIs and finally Tank busting in the armory will allow 2 PTRDs in tank hunter squad and RPD-33 AT grenade for NIs, guards and remove the 1 PRTD of the NIs.

Last edited August 1, 2011 at 1:27 PM by Mr.Q

This is all very complicated...

NI have already been adjusted for the next patch.

IMO their armor type should be the main concern. No other fraction gets elite infantry at 2 CPs. Airborne are harder to hit while running but they suck at holding ground (they suck at allmost anything) and their RR upgade is expensive. Their elite armor should be gained from vet.

Yes, i think the Naval infantries should be set like the Strek in skills and so that their price should be reduce as well.

That won't work. Naval Infantry is a special force and hardened as hell, they need to be good, Strelky are (more men but less hp per man) as good as American riflemen and you want something like Riflemen as doctrinal call-in?
Their role is fine now, they just need minor adjustments.

the changes of NI for the next patch are more or less finished

but you will see how they work in the next patch

Ok so the NI is an elite force so in the next patch their CP will be pushed up to 3 CP and plz remove the PTRD, it cant against infantries or tanks even light armor... its so insuffecient. I think the NI shouldn't start with SVTs, the one who should start with them are the Guards.

Mr.Q wrote:
Ok so the NI is an elite force so in the next patch their CP will be pushed up to 3 CP and plz remove the PTRD, it cant against infantries or tanks even light armor... its so insuffecient. I think the NI shouldn't start with SVTs, the one who should start with them are the Guards.

We will see what is in store for the NI in the next patch. Mr.Q is correct about the PTRD's utility. If the next patch is unsatisfactory consideration should be given to providing NI with airborne armor and Krak AT grenades at start.

IIRC Airborne and Stormtroops are both available at 2CP. I would like to see all Elites come in after 3CP.

who said that they are an elite unit in the next patch :P

btw this is not a confirmation that they are not
maybe they are maybe not

you will see in the patch :D

Otto wrote:
IIRC Airborne and Stormtroops are both available at 2CP. I would like to see all Elites come in after 3CP.

Yep, +1. As you said Storms and Airbornes arrive at 2CP, elite units 3 and paper armour units like Luftwaffe ground forces at 1CP.

Paper armor XD? Exactly what type of armor do luftwaffe ground force have? Maybe the NI should have a PPSH. I would imagne that what you would bring on a boat since its small + compact.

Fishhunterx wrote:
Paper armor XD? Exactly what type of armor do luftwaffe ground force have? Maybe the NI should have a PPSH. I would imagne that what you would bring on a boat since its small + compact.

I don't know about their armour type but hey have just 55 hitpoints while the German Leutnant has e.g. 140.

Sounds like HP for an engineer  :P

Wehrmacht engineers have 70 hitpoints but that's enough OT.

I guess that makes LGF the weakest unit in the game health wise :(. Its probably best to leave them in your Inf. HT so they can fire but be protected.

Fishhunterx wrote:
I guess that makes LGF the weakest unit in the game health wise :( . Its probably best to leave them in your Inf. HT so they can fire but be protected.

IIRC PGs have 55 HPs too. Conscripts weigh in at 37 HP.

Last edited August 2, 2011 at 3:37 AM by Otto 213

Ah! that is why they melt away in combat. What sort of armor do conscripts have?

I believe Conscripts have "soldier armor". The default personnel amor type.

The default armour for infantry is infantry armour. Volks, basic grens, riflemen etc. have it. LGF and Conscripts also have it. Soldier armour is found on PGs, falls and British units only.

LGF are basically a volks squad with 5 less health per man. Overall, that's 275hp vs 300hp on volks.

PGs have 55hp per man, but soldier armour. Against M1 Garands for instance, soldier armour reduces incoming damage from them by 40%. Therefore, PG squad health jumps from 165 to 231 effective squad health. BARs are even less effective against soldier armour than Garands - reduced accuracy and 60% less damage.

Tommies have 65hp and soldier armour, giving them a whopping 455 effective health against volks in early game. (Volks also have 0.6 damage vs soldier)

NI in EF 1.4 are basically a rifle squad but with elite armour instead of infantry armour. This is -25% received accuracy and -25% received damage.

Last edited August 2, 2011 at 11:40 AM by GodlikeDennis

Thx for clearing that up :D

Hence Mathematically proved that conscripts suck at everything.

Tankbuster wrote:
Hence Mathematically proved that conscripts suck at everything.

PanzerGrenadiers don't think the same :P.

Do they? A conscript squad versus a PanzerGrenadiers squad with upgrades = A lot of dead bodies in khaki uniforms.

I think that was the outcome they were expecting :P. More vet for their.

Tankbuster wrote:
Do they? A conscript squad versus a PanzerGrenadiers squad with upgrades = A lot of dead bodies in khaki uniforms.

You are forgetting that conscripts are cheaper, have more men, more rifles, can throw molotovs for free, do well with the command squad, and are great in numbers. With vet they recieve full weapon packages in 1.4 and become pretty damn formidable.

It takes quite a bit of teching and upgrading for Pgrens to get to a formidable combat force of assualt rifles and G43 aggressive vet mayhem.

But when they do, conscripts start crying AND dying.

And Frying 8)

Tankbuster wrote:
But when they do, conscripts start crying AND dying.

By that time you should have better units (NI Strelky Guards Partisans) on the field. Do you expect Conscripts to be godlike? They're early game units.

blackbishop wrote:

Tankbuster wrote:
Hence Mathematically proved that conscripts suck at everything.

PanzerGrenadiers don't think the same :P .

Yeah the Krauts of the Kampf Gruppe don't think like the Red beet-eaters. Must be something in their diet.  :D

NI may be Elite but they are only light infantry. Vanilla NI with SVT40s and airborne armor at 2CP is about right. Converting NI to Guards at vet3 (and allowing them to keep their SVT40s) as per MaxiKing6's suggestion with Conscripts> Strelky, would be a great concept addition to CoH and EF! Elite armor at vet1 or vet2; deleting the PTRD and adding KRAK grenade ability as an upgrade would further smooth the transition from Light Infantry with limited anti-vehicle capabilities to full fledged multi-purpose Assault Guards. And it would be historically relevant too.  :)
http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=6428.0

Cranialwizard wrote:
... You are forgetting that conscripts are cheaper, have more men, more rifles, can throw molotovs for free, do well with the command squad, and are great in numbers. With vet they recieve full weapon packages in 1.4 and become pretty damn formidable...

All this conscript discussion is pretty academic considering all Soviet Infantry will undergo significant changes in coming patches. However...

Cranialwizard wrote:

Tankbuster wrote:... Do you expect Conscripts to be godlike? They're early game units.

I do expect early infantry like conscripts and Amis rifle squads to retain some utility throughout the game.

Last edited August 3, 2011 at 3:21 PM by Otto 213

But how do you guys think about adding PPS-43s or PPSh-41s for the NIs ? so that the NIs will have 2 upgrade available first one is upgrade with 4 SMG and the 2nd one is upgrade with long range support 4 SVTs and 2 DPs. And at start they will all be equipped with 5 Mosins and 1 SMG. About the Guards i want to suggest that they all can have SVTs at start.

Mr.Q wrote:
But how do you guys think about adding PPS-43s or PPSh-41s for the NIs ? so that the NIs will have 2 upgrade available first one is upgrade with 4 SMG and the 2nd one is upgrade with long range support 4 SVTs and 2 DPs. And at start they will all be equipped with 5 Mosins and 1 SMG. About the Guards i want to suggest that they all can have SVTs at start.

Both units have undergone extensive changes and they are pretty much final so most of these balance concerns aren't really valid because the changes have completely changed the way the units can and will be operated.

BTW i have an idea for improving those conscript by to make the men have guns shoot or reload faster because they have 4 buddies beside them. In movies, games the one doesn't have gun have to carry ammunition for the armed one

---

Post Merge: [time]1312476306[/time]

---

Hmmm may be in the future you guys can add for those NIs some PPSh-41 35 rounds box.

this gun quite look like the PPS-43 but much more stable because it has a wooden stock.

Last edited August 4, 2011 at 4:45 PM by Mr.Q

Mr.Q wrote:
BTW i have an idea for improving those conscript by to make the men have guns shoot or reload faster because they have 4 buddies beside them. In movies, games the one doesn't have gun have to carry ammunition for the armed one

---

Post Merge: [time]1312476306[/time]

---

Hmmm may be in the future you guys can add for those NIs some PPSh-41 35 rounds box.

this gun quite look like the PPS-43 but much more stable because it has a wooden stock.

That gun was not used as much as the more mainstream SMGs like the PPS-43 or the PPSH-41.

How many SMGs do you want in the faction anyway  ???

Anyway navals don't need a SMG. They have SVTs, can be upgraded to DP-28s or PRTD-41s...

U mean in the next patch NIs will have 2 upgrades available ? 1 with DPs and 1 with PTRDs ?

@Mr.Q
Yes, they will have 1 upgrade for DPs and other for PTRDs. Once you choose one you cannot purchse the other, however you can purchase a second gun of the same type :).