Idea for Infantry veterancy

Hey guys,

I come to you with a suggestion for the Red Army that came into my mind when I read Dennis' post about Conscript veterancy in the new patch.

My idea is, that because the common Red Army infantry units represent ranks, the units may elevate a rank at vet3. When let's say a Strelky units reaches vet3, it's granted the possibility to be made to a Guard squad for a certain amount of MP, let's say half of the Guards normal price.
It would also add a new, useful function to Conscripts, which are more or less useless in mid/lategame.

If you manage to keep your troops alive and even get enough kills to reach vet3, I think you have deserved to be supplied with even better troups.
Veterancy is lost of course if you upgrade a squad.
Thoughts?

Hey Maxi, I like your idea for promoting Conscripts to Strelky. It could probably be implemented with an Ostheer type modernization ability. I don't think Strelky should be promoted to Guards unless a hard cap is placed on Guards and the Shoot on the Scoot DPs upgrade becomes individually purchased, (non-global).

My idea mainly focused the upgrade from Conscripts to Strelky at the beginning.

It can't be done AFAIK. You can't change a unit to be another one while it is alive. You can do all sorts of crazy modifications to it but in the end it's still the same squad, always called conscripts.

It's possible. Do you remember the mission Trun from the "Pocket of Falaise" campaign? Units have to retreat and then the reach a specific location, called map_exit_point, then they vanish.
The same function like that the map exit point has could be assigned to the upgraded squad by completion of the upgrade.
Then, the new squad is just spawned where the old one vanished, this also works, you can spawn units everywhere you want on a map (I've seen it in CheatMod videos).

Hmmm, interesting workaround. The squad would lose all their previous vet, kill data etc. but would become the new unit. It would look a little inexplicable though if they just changed in the middle of the battlefield. They'd have to run to the call-in point to make it look alright.

Yeah, when the upgrade is finished, they retreat to the callin point, vanish and the new unit appears, now we've got it.

MaxiKing6 wrote:
Yeah, when the upgrade is finished, they retreat to the callin point, vanish and the new unit appears, now we've got it.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
Hmmm, interesting workaround. The squad would lose all their previous vet, kill data etc. but would become the new unit. It would look a little inexplicable though if they just changed in the middle of the battlefield. They'd have to run to the call-in point to make it look alright.

I think a change in the middle of the battlefield is ok. When an AFV upgrade to skirts appears nobody seems to mind. The retreat to spawn location is problematical because it can cause a tactical anomaly in combat and from a programming POV adds potential bug problems. A suspension of disbelief shouldn't be that much of a problem.

But if the change in the battlefield isn't possible then we can't do it  :P
I like this idea maxi, nice one (Y)

The armour skirts isn't that implausible compared to this. The squad would spawn no matter how many casualties were taken and a full squad would spawn in it's place. The squad would be completely different in terms of weapons, looks, name, positioning etc. It would also be OP to suddenly go pop! and change to a more powerful squad in the middle of combat and replenish your losses.

@GLD I think your right.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
The armour skirts isn't that implausible compared to this. The squad would spawn no matter how many casualties were taken and a full squad would spawn in it's place. The squad would be completely different in terms of weapons, looks, name, positioning etc. It would also be OP to suddenly go pop! and change to a more powerful squad in the middle of combat and replenish your losses.

Yea that'd make you look like Jesus reviving people from the dead...just doesn't work :/

GodlikeDennis wrote:
It would also be OP to suddenly go pop! and change to a more powerful squad in the middle of combat and replenish your losses.

This is what I wanted to read as a counter argument.
BTW losses: Does the upgrade require full unit strength?

Some upgrades require a certain amount of the squad to be alive before you can upgrade them (riflenades etc.). I'm not entirely sure how this works. Still, I'd rather them retreat to the callin point because it just looks better and is more balanced.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
Some upgrades require a certain amount of the squad to be alive before you can upgrade them (riflenades etc.). I'm not entirely sure how this works. Still, I'd rather them retreat to the callin point because it just looks better and is more balanced.

I'm with you. All the balance problems that it brings can be avoided by getting them out of combat to the callin point, plus I'd recommend to add a requirement to have full squad size in order to upgrade.

I don't think the requirement to have a full squad is necessary. It can be rationalized as a refit and reinforce option. THe squad will be losing a man after all.
If this concept is to be workable I think it needs K.I.S.S. (Keep it Simple Stupid/Silly). The Devs will probably drop it if it poses too many headaches.  ;)

Although I agree with you about that K.I.S.S. thingy, it's not that complicated to implement a requirement for an upgrade.
You just need to add two childs to the point squad_requirement, choose text for the type, type "required_number_of_squad_members" and assign a number to it, work of one minute.

It would require seven members I guess :P.

It can be done, only that new squads are going to enter without vet & kills. But it sounds better for a campaign feature than a normal one.

blackbishop wrote:
But it sounds better for a campaign feature than a normal one.

I agree. I don't think it fits normal gameplay.

Wouldn't this be problematic? What if your conscripts are in the middle of fighting and they suddenly vet to lvl 3. Then they would just start running away if I'm correct.

No. The squad isn't upgraded automatically, the option to upgrade it is given to you. If you want it to fight on, just don't press the upgrade button. ;)

Oh :P. Then I think its a pretty good idea. You can go from conscripts to lvl 3 strelky. Wont that make alot sreltky on the feild though?

If you manage to 1) keep the conscripts alive and 2) get enough kills to reach vet3.

I guess that would be a challenge all in itself^^