British Captain

Rather than derail that campaign topic further, i decided to create a new 1 about the Captain. In my experience, he is the most worthless unit in terms of cost-usefulness ratio.

GodlikeDennis wrote:

pariah wrote:
The only thing Captains are good for is teching to tanks. THAT'S IT! Admittedly, Victor Target can come in handy, but it will most likely get the Cappy killed. And his defensive bonuses are so useless... ::)

Woah woah mate, no. No insulting the Cpt. His defensive bonuses are immense. With a vet2 captain in the friendly sector you're basically immune to suppression. You also take FAR less damage. Vet 3 gives extra resources so you spam even more FOOs and victor target basically doubles your arty's rate of fire.

I have no idea what a "FOO" is, so let's talk about vet. How are they supposed to get even vet 1 when you have to keep them out of combat?

And his defensive bonuses. How are you supposed to use them when you need to keep him safe behind the front line? Most territory sectors are way too small for the bonuses to have any affect!

From what i've seen, the Captain is almost as useless as a Kangaroo Carrier. Prove me wrong, forum! :P

FOO is the Forward Observation Officers ability from the Royal Arty doc that allows Lt and Cpt to call in arty strikes.

Cpt bonuses:
Vet 0 (base) - 0.5 suppression (infantry)
                  - 0.8 damage (infantry)
                  - health regen (infantry)
                  - 1.25 health (emplacements)
Vet 1          - 20hp (Cpt)
Vet 2          - 0.5 suppression (infantry
                  - 1.15 health (infantry)
                  - more health regen (infantry)
                  - 1.15 health (emplacements)
Vet 3          - 66% increased resources (sector he's in)

The bonuses affect all applicable units in the entire sector. He also gains vet from all units within 40 range (longer range than small arms etc.). The Captain can be garrisoned or in a vehicle and still provide/receive bonuses.

Not to mention retreat to captain is one of the best ways for a Brit player to avoid a HQ firestorm.

Last edited July 22, 2011 at 1:24 PM by GodlikeDennis

Withdraw ability would often fuck me up because relic were too lazy to make it queueable. ::) Eastern Front has fixed that though, so it's alright now.

Forward Observation Officers has the same problem as Victor Target - You have to get close to use it, and you have to keep your Captain safe, hence the unit and ability conflict.

And as stated before, most sectors are too small for his bonuses to be useful. The ONLY reason i ever buy a Captain is to get tanks. It's really all he's good for...

You don't have to get that close. You can actually use the ability from out of sight range of normal units, let alone their weapons range.

I rarely have LTs or Cpts die when I play Brits yet always have them close enough to give their bonuses. Maybe it takes a certain degree of micro but I've never found it hard.

My main problem is Pumas and Armored Cars; In just about every game, my Captain will die to 1 of them at some point. Hell, they will often rush my Field Support Truck and start hammering away before the Captain is finished! Needless to say, when he is finished, he will last but a few seconds before dying to those fast armored Snipers. ::)

Yes, having good micro certainly helps keep your units alive, but in the case of the Captain, there's really nothing you can do to keep him alive against those armored cars. >:(

At least the captain bravely struggles against the AC with his.... Pistol. WTF, the captain really is useless.

Tankbuster wrote:
At least the captain bravely struggles against the AC with his.... Pistol. WTF, the captain really is useless.

Have him pick up a shreck or piat

Maybe Relic should've gave him something like a Tommy Gun?

I think the Captain should give his bonuses to units everywhere, no matter what territory they're in.

But nonetheless, these officers just don't fit Company Of Heroes gameplay. The Leutnant works alright, because a) he's not required for teching, and b) his abilities are actually of some use.

pariah wrote:
because a) he's not required for teching

Nope he actually is required for teching to Field Support Truck.

Leutnant, not Captain. ::)

pariah wrote:
Leutnant, not Captain. ::)

Yeah, Lieutenant is required to tech to Field Support Truck, not Captain. Captain is required for teching to Armored Command Truck.

Correct ;D... each officer is needed to deploy the next truck, besides the captain is needed to deploy stuarts.

Leutnant (Deutsch) = Wehrmacht
Lieutenant (English) = British
::)

I use the captain as a way for my troops to get to the battle quicker (retreat)

but I have noticed that he is incredibly weak, maybe if you could tweak his gun to make it stronger like the lieutenant or something, that could make all the difference

Yeah, it's a huge Webley revolver! I think it should do a good deal of damage...

Captain is overpowered! Somebody please nerf it! ;D

pariah wrote:
Captain is overpowered! Somebody please nerf it! ;D

I like how it survived all that, only to get ran over. :D

cephalos wrote:
Terminator Captain

Christ, wish my caps were that lucky.

It was a bug in a past version. Incredibly fun. I've had a Cpt kill a KT, numerous Panthers/P4s and started attacking the enemy base before finally dying.

A vet 2 Cpt makes all infantry in the sector have +38% effective health, receive 25% of normal suppression and regenerate health. That's like getting Vet2 infantry for Wehr plus additional suppression resistance to make them almost immune to it. Vet Cpt + Vet Lt gives Tommies more powerful vet than Wehr to all units within their aura/territory.

The Captain is also the only British unit to have a 1.5 capping speed.

otto wrote:
I use the captain as a way for my troops to get to the battle quicker (retreat)

but I have noticed that he is incredibly weak, maybe if you could tweak his gun to make it stronger like the lieutenant or something, that could make all the difference

He is not a combat unit and thats why he needs less xp than an LT to get to vet 3. Without officers Brits would be the least intensive micro fraction and they are there on the field to make your life harder and to make you waste ammo on casualty clearing station healing.

Captains role is to protect infantry from being base raped. When they get killed faster than they reinforce (locked down PzIV, MP44 spam, etc) you can retreat to him, reinforce (maybe call in a Churchill) and retreat back to the HQ. This works great with high retreat bonuses (0,25 recived acc) that are unique for the British.

I dont mind him being weak, one thing I wish he was better at is healing. He ralelly is in the same friendly territory as his troops, and when he is he grands only 2 HP/min (5 time less than Wehrmacht has on all vet 1 infantry).

One more thing.
Captains Webley revolver has the same 55 max range as a Firefly! but its accuracy is very low then (0.05).

Edit: I just noticed in Corsix (EF module) that British Officers have somekind of HP regeneration (was that added?) but KCH dont (in 2.602 they recived HP regeneration at 20HP/min regen vet 0 in addition of 10HP/min that all German infantry get at vet 1).

Last edited July 23, 2011 at 6:08 AM by Paciat

Terminator Captain: 8th wonder of the world.

@Paciat

RMC's Lts. have regeneration.

What about Captains? Are they in the Royal Marine Commandos?

pariah wrote:
What about Captains? Are they in the Royal Marine Commandos?

Yes.

Do they have any changes?

pariah wrote:
Do they have any changes?

Don't remember... perhaps more health.

That would be good, but i think a damage increase would be good, too.

Can the Captain pick up weapons? If so, Jesus christ give him a Bren or something and he can rebel a whole army himself! XD

I believe so, yes, but the problem with that is that you can't tell your Tommies to drop the Bren. ;)

Jesus, Captain is a command unit. The better weapon he has, more likelly he will be focused fired at. Keep him out back and dont use him as a blob enhancer. That is not his role.

Paciat wrote:
Captain is a command unit.  dont use him as a blob enhancer. That is not his role.

all the captain does in enhance blobs. blobs of infantry or blobs of emplacements dummy

I think he should deal more damage for defense, rather than offense. If you want to use his abilities, you simply CANNOT keep him back. His radius is just too small.

pariah wrote:
I think he should deal more damage for defense, rather than offense. If you want to use his abilities, you simply CANNOT keep him back. His radius is just too small.

...dealing damage is allways offense. Avoiding damage is defense. ::)
His abilities arent meant to be used often. He should be the last man that you can count on when everything else fails, coordinating what is left, adding morale etc. If you have the highest military rank that dosnt mean you have the biggest gun. Its his brain and leadership skills that made him the Captain.

What do you do when the enemy attacks? Kill them with sand bags? ::)

I don't want him to have "the biggest gun"; Just some usefulness. If it weren't for the teching ability he provides, nobody would buy him. His abilities are mostly just useless.

That video posted by cephalos earlier sums up my opinion on the British army perfectly - They have good defense, but shitty offense. Playing as the Brits is more a game of 'hold on for as long as possible', rather than 'kill the enemy'.

maybe captain can call in air strikes too? and maybe have flares to see through for of war for limited amount of time?
:)

Those would probably be some good buffs.

YEY!  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Calm down, dude. I don't have the power to make that happen. ::)

Not gonna happen guys. Cpt is fine how he is (apart from using the flawed British vet system).

Man, i would so love to see how you play as the Brits. You have a totally different opinion to me. ;D

Yeah I got position 60 Brit without using roos or BiB before I got bored :P. My win:loss is about 25:3 I think.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
Yeah I got position 60 Brit without using roos or BiB before I got bored :P. My win:loss is about 25:3 I think.

How did you defend from Piospams?
Even with all the 2.602 teching nerfs to this kind of build order 5 Pio T2 strat is still OP vs Brits.

Dunno, I just have good infantry micro I guess. I played against KingOwl who was number 1 Wehr at the time too and only lost once KT hit the field. He piospammed to T2 terror grenspam which was a bitch to deal with.

Well in whatever patch i've been playing (Opposing Fronts - Tales Of Valor), Pioneers just get slaughtered by Infantry Sections, even without a Lefty nearby. Spamming Pioneers is like the worst thing you could do...

pariah wrote:
Well in whatever patch i've been playing (Opposing Fronts - Tales Of Valor), Pioneers just get slaughtered by Infantry Sections, even without a Lefty nearby. Spamming Pioneers is like the worst thing you could do...

You never faced a pio spam? Heres a video how 5Pio T2 strat works:
[COH] #41 - GR Tournament - S1mon (Wehr) VS RUKAclKot (Brit) Semi-Finals Game: 1

Piospam is an almost guaranteed win against an even skilled Brit player.

What an idiot trying to play Brits in a tourney.

Last edited July 24, 2011 at 3:36 PM by GodlikeDennis

Which is why i say in the patch i have - Pioneers are useless against Tommies. 2 Guys with short-range submachine guns v.s. 5 guys with medium-range rifles. It's pretty obvious who would win... Why relic decided to make the Brits weaker (or Wehrmacht stronger) i have no fucking clue. ::)

3 Pios (360MP) > 1 Tommy (450MP)

Flames are also excellent against the Brits who don't benefit from their soldier armour against fire. It is also useful against trenches, buildings and emplacements that Brits love to use.

It allows you to completely dominate the map control due to high numbers of squads, further crippling the Brits. This also opens up perfectly for a T2 spam where you can just produce grens (Vet2 grens(300MP) > tommies (450MP)) because of your map control and access to fuel for vet.

Brits have very few good weapons against elite armour which makes grenspam or vetted piospam very deadly. The KKC can't be produced without another building now though so early vetted piospam isn't as threatening.

Piospam is also very cheap, allowing you to float quite a bit of MP to spend on gren squads or OPs very early. Putting up a few OPs combined with already extensive map control allows the Wehr player to spam a LOT of firestorms or flamethrowers which can be deadly against a Brit.