Combat situations

Thanks for the advice guys :D. Can Recon tommies detect snipers or no? And I didn't know you could snipe in the bren carrier :P I dont normally play Brit. Its just automatch keeps making me Brit >:(

Another Q(Yes I know. I've been asking ALOT). When rifleman use surpressive fire, do they have reduced dmg like when PG use surpressive volley? If so then I'm going to have to bring more rifleman to the fight :-X ;D.

Also when the Sherman buys the .50 cal upgrade, you will notice a wall of sand bags suddenly appear on it :P. When the gunner is killed the bags dissapear :(. Do those sand bags on the Sherman actually help it take less dmg or is it just for show ???

In addition when the crab flail is purchased the stats go up next to the image. Does the flail actually help it or is it just good for mine detail and running kraut ass over ;D

Recon sections have quite good detection radii and this works even in the bren I think. You can't snipe from it though, you must get out to do that.

Riflemen lose a lot accuracy when they use suppressive fire but fire faster and deal more suppression. Suppressive fire usually lowers damage output but against light vehicles (PE) it can actually INCREASE firepower in some instances, due to the accuracy not mattering. Shots will scatter but still hit the large vehicle hitbox.

Sherman sandbags are visual effect only. The crab mine flail only does what you see - clears mines and shreds Jerries. The stats on the UI are meaningless.

@GodLikeDennis: in your previous post, you wrote bike is better than Schwimm. Can you tell me why please, since I usually use schwimm than bike.

Bike is much cheaper and more disposable, for the same firepower and sniper hunting/infantry pushing/scouting utility. Schwimm has more health but it's not justified by the higher cost IMO. Especially as neither of them will survive real AT and a microed bike shouldn't be lost too easily anyway early game before this shows up. Schwimm's only good point IMO is the reverse capability but good micro can render this pointless with the bike anyway.

With hp of the bike, will it can withstand 2 hit of AT then die?

No. Neither will any of the light vechicles like jeep or ketten :(. It takes 1 hit but its unlikely to hit if you keep moving I think ???

Another Q: I've always considered Rangers to be kinda crappy with their high cost and inability to kill armor :(. But apprently they are good at killing infantry with their thompsons. With that said is it a good idea to charge them at Volks with MP40 or Storms with MP44?
In fact, is it a good idea to even charge them against vet infantry(like Vet 2 Grenadiers with MG42 perhaps).

Last edited September 5, 2011 at 7:12 PM by Fishhunterx

Against grenadiers with any vet, charge or die, since their weapons are meant for long range and Thompsons are meant for short range.

Against MP40 volks and MP44 troops, never charge them unless they are somehow at a disadvantage (less than full health, etc).  MP40s and MP44s also suck at long range, so no side will really be in serious danger if you keep at range.

LOL they will be firing and missing for a very long time ;D. Another Q although this is a bit more personal preference I guess. How many snipers should you get. I always thought 1 but I see people post they they get more ??? so Im just curious. I know it help vs Infantry spam but so does an mg :P.

Also as Wher, what do you reccomend making first: MG or Volks ??? This is also a bit of a personal Q but I'd like to know what you guys do anywho :D

Fishhunterx wrote:
LOL they will be firing and missing for a very long time ;D. Another Q although this is a bit more personal preference I guess. How many snipers should you get. I always thought 1 but I see people post they they get more ??? so Im just curious. I know it help vs Infantry spam but so does an mg :P.

Also as Wher, what do you reccomend making first: MG or Volks ??? This is also a bit of a personal Q but I'd like to know what you guys do anywho :D

Going MG first is always risky unless you're doing a heavy support strat with Pios...which is also risky. Go Volks first.

I get loads of snipers. It depends on the enemy strat. Usually 2-3 is required to break a good grenspam. Even more against a PG spam or seriously angry grenspam. 2 Wehr snipers can shred a rifle squad and render flame engies useless.

TY. So Im assuming I should make like 2-3 snipers :P?

Anyways I have another Q. However this one is a bit...unique. It seems as though I kinda suck at the map Langres. I've played 4 PvP game on Langres ranging from low lvl(lvl 3) to fairly high lvl(lvl 12 I think). I always seem to lose >:(. I thought it was b/c they were very skilled so I tried playing against a comp and couldn't even secure 2 VP's :o. I basically always get my ass kicked on Langres :'(.

So I'd like to know how to play well on Langres :P. But mostly I'd like some simple tips specifically for Langres :P

Use wire to secure flanks
place lots of mines
be wary of AT guns cause langres is a great map for those pesky things
learn the best flanks
there is a huge guide on GR (gamereplays) read and you will become a way better 1vs1 player

he is a tip for axis players on vire river

1. if PE always go luftwaffe and rush at the start with the luft inf get halftracks for support, the nbuild flaks on the other side to secure a position and then rush their base with halftrack+tankbustersx2

2. if playing a britsh, they will always try to rush with brens and then build mgs,mortars ect. to prevent this either get to the bridge first and build tank traps or get grens with paks and destroy their forward base.

3. do not ever rely on tanks, go for arty, especially the stuka, they r good at destroying anything even tanks when en mass. tanks are cannon fodder on this map.

4. always try to get to the middle and secure it, it will matter in late game since pop cap.

5. Dorctines- either go for defense or terror. defense u will get flak, but beware of snipers always keep inf reserves and u get the rocket barrage and other goodies.
Terror- u get the fire storm. sneak a sniper over the other side and call in fire storms or guide ur stukas to get crucial targets this will stress the other player and may cause him to lose concertration to the main battle, this gives u time to attack in full force.

6. if player against either airborne or Royal commandos get ostwinds/wirbelwind and some vetted grens with Lmgx2. because they will always try to get u off guard by landing in ur territory and wreck havoc.

Thx Pauly3. I have another Q. How do you get rid of an MG quickly and efficiently early game. The typical counter would be flamers but you dont have the munitions early on :( and since they are usually in a building over looking a strategic location, its tough. What makes it worse is the fact Wher have acces to MG from the get go :(

I tried running around the building with rifleman so it couldn't fire on me :P but his volks were nearby and killing my guys 1 by 1 >:(. I didn't even attempt to flank b/c I didn't really see a point in flanking a....building? And it took me a while to get mortars and when I did his mortars, motorcycles, and snipers harrased it alot >:(.

I know this isn't a situation but do u guys always use the same doc for every faction every time u play because your good at that doc or do u chose based on the enemy's moves .because i normally play team games and do Wat ever is a good combo but during 1v1s  Wat do u do because i can never really get good at all the docs overall because I'm always switching on and off and having to fig new strats.

SU i always go urban now because i like the 1.51 ver(got to buff street fighting though)

Ameri i go Armor most of the time because i like mass production and the t17

Wher i always go blitz because its a great inf stopper because of the stuh42

PE I'm not good at and never play in pvps enless I'm praticing

RMC Arty for team games and Engineer for 1v1

vbrit never really play them because I'm always on EF but normally engineers

IMO it depends on your gameplay style and the situation.

I usually base my doc off how best to counter an enemy strat. This is true for all my factions except Wehr, where I go the doc that best fits with my build order. If I'm beating someone already, I usually go a doc that will help deal with an unexpected shock unit (like Hetzer etc.) so that I will keep the advantage.

Fishhunterx wrote:
Thx Pauly3. I have another Q. How do you get rid of an MG quickly and efficiently early game. The typical counter would be flamers but you dont have the munitions early on :( and since they are usually in a building over looking a strategic location, its tough. What makes it worse is the fact Wher have acces to MG from the get go :(

I tried running around the building with rifleman so it couldn't fire on me :P but his volks were nearby and killing my guys 1 by 1 >:(. I didn't even attempt to flank b/c I didn't really see a point in flanking a....building? And it took me a while to get mortars and when I did his mortars, motorcycles, and snipers harrased it alot >:(.

Flanking does help, for instance last night I got a wher mg in a building on langres, I send two rifle men sqauds(one on each side of the building) to draw the fire, then send a flamer from the front since his mg was firing on my 1st rifles, and the supporting enemy squads as well. the flamer got the mg down to one man and had to retreat. But my 2nd rifles was able to finish it, before it could switch windows or get support.

Spieel wrote:

Fishhunterx wrote:
Thx Pauly3. I have another Q. How do you get rid of an MG quickly and efficiently early game. The typical counter would be flamers but you dont have the munitions early on :( and since they are usually in a building over looking a strategic location, its tough. What makes it worse is the fact Wher have acces to MG from the get go :(

I tried running around the building with rifleman so it couldn't fire on me :P but his volks were nearby and killing my guys 1 by 1 >:(. I didn't even attempt to flank b/c I didn't really see a point in flanking a....building? And it took me a while to get mortars and when I did his mortars, motorcycles, and snipers harrased it alot >:(.

Flanking does help, for instance last night I got a wher mg in a building on langres, I send two rifle men sqauds(one on each side of the building) to draw the fire, then send a flamer from the front since his mg was firing on my 1st rifles, and the supporting enemy squads as well. the flamer got the mg down to one man and had to retreat. But my 2nd rifles was able to finish it, before it could switch windows or get support.

But what about early on when you have no muni or later in the game when your out of muni ???

I always try having one or two flamers all game, usually one of my first upgrades.
Rifles firing from two sides should help as well. On most maps it should be possible to cap around this. So then just harass other parts and wait for a flamer.

Guys, what can you do if you are a playing as British and your Wehr opponent spam pios in the early game and equipped most of them with flammers ? Really, i saw players who skipped the Quarter and go straight for Krieg Barrack but he spammed...a lot pios. They used them to capping points but sometime blobbed them in early game and it's a major threat to my Universal carrier and Infantry Section.

This was already answered in the previous page ::).

Another Q: What is the difference b/w the Hetzer and the Jagdpanzer IV when both are unupgraded? Looks and performs the same 2 me :P

Also whats the diff b/w the regular Tiger and the Tiger ace? More armor? Damage? Should I use it like any other Tiger?

Tiger Ace is essentially a vet3 Tiger with +50% speed as well.

JP4 is healthier and deals more damage to tanks than the Hetzer IIRC. The Hetzer has ambush, is faster, better against infantry with main cannon and has an MG.

Another Q: Althoug I already had a thread about the Jagdpanther vet some of you had different opinions considering your different game styles. This is true on other forums where some ppl go all def and others go all off :P.

So I would like to know what is generally the best vet combination? Lets say I have no specific plan in mind but I need to vet it up. What do I do ???

With high damage units like Marder, Mortar-Ht or the Jagdpanther i tend to go defensive VET because they survive just a few shots and shells more. Their damage already is impressive so i always fell they need more armour. The same goes for STG-44 troops and armoured cars. I am not sure about the Hummel and the Pz.IV.  Maybe GodlikeDennis can help me out there?

PE infantry vet: In general offensive vet for GR43's and Shreks and  defensive vet for ST44sis the way to go. I usually get one def. vet though for infantry to allow for some health regeneration; ~3.5 regen/ per vet. WM grens get ~10.5 regen at one shot, although I forget which vet level they get it at.

PE indirect fire unit vet: I go offensive vet all the way.

PE light vehicle vet: I like defensive vet in general, for speed and health. If you consider Light Vehicles to be throwaways or use Bergetiger offensive vet is going to deliver more punch.

PE tanks and jagd's vet for me is always based on the current situation.

Basically what Otto says is what I do. The range is generally what determines it for me. Long range units are generally better with offensive and close range units are better with defensive because they are more likely to get shot, and can use the extra speed and defenses to make them more likely to get into optimum killing range (MP44s, P4s etc.). Tanks I always go defensive (except MarderIII) because the speed and defense boost makes them practically impossible to kill in skilled hands.

Offensive:
G43s
Shreks
Marders
Flak/Nash/Flakvierling
Hummel
MHT
Sometimes ACs

Defensive:
All other tanks/vehicles
Sometimes ACs
MP44s

I wasn't sure where to ask this so I figured here would be appropriate :D.

Why is it when you get kicked from a game it says loss? I got kicked b/c of lag (IMO it was b/c we were winning :P) and it says Classic 2 vs 2 loss confirmed. This is very annoying for me and has happened b4 >:(. Does this happen to anyone else ???

Last edited September 16, 2011 at 10:11 PM by Fishhunterx

I just got kicked from a 1vs1 automatch because of lag, I had lower VP (mine 300s, him 400s) than my opponent but have more territories and still got a winning ;D
Really dont know what lose and win condition when kicked base on what, I usually think it's base on VP but now it proved different.

As far as I know its based on a 'trust' or 'honesty' rating that relic keeps on us all based on your conduct, dropping from games etc...

Basically it takes into account each players conduct when a game is arbitrated and awards the more honest player. Don't know if it takes the current state of the game into account.

Current game doesn't matter. As said, it's based on a hidden "trust" rating with Relic Online. The more games you play without having disputes, the higher this rating.

Thanks guys. I have another Q. Do grenadiers have a noticeably large advantage over rifleman? I ask this b/c of the following situation:

I had a two rifleman squad(1st one had 3 men with 1 shreck, 2nd had 3 men only garand's) and the first squad was in a trench my brit ally made. The gren squad was pretty close (I guess the guy wanted to use the yellow cover in front of the trench :P) and had no vet. Yet I couldn't seems to kill it ???. I threw a grenade and they only lost some health >:(. The fire fight went on for like 30 sec then he ran away with 2 guys. Not retreated, just moved his troops out of range >:(. He took out 2 of my guys but he only lost 2.

So do grenadiers have a distict advantage over rifleman and I shouldn't engage them 1 on 1 ??? Or this sort of an exceptional game and I should continue to engage them 1 on 1 ???

Edit: Oh I should mention there was a PaK gun behind the Grenadiers and later in front with the crew still alive and firing but the grenadiers never had the green cover icon and I told my rifleman to focus fire the Grens. IDK if they listened :P. The PaK crew died after the nade I think. ???

Last edited September 17, 2011 at 3:44 PM by Fishhunterx

i think Grens beat Rifleman even with bars,

Grens are better than rifles. Up close it's even and at range the grens are way better. BARs make the rifles better, and gren vet2 makes the grens better again.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
Grens are better than rifles. Up close it's even and at range the grens are way better. BARs make the rifles better, and gren vet2 makes the grens better again.

Sorta debatable up close. The tide seems to run with Rifles more often than grens up close in even cover but I've seen crazy things happen. So yea it is pretty even/random at close range as Rifles are much better at close range than Axis infantry as a whole.

Last edited September 18, 2011 at 4:45 AM by Cranialwizard

How about Tommie section vs. Grens? Relic never really said what range to use them at. Whuch side gets the larger bonus?

I know both get accuracy plus but does Brits get even better performance than grens up close like rifleman?

This Q obiviusly implies that both have no vet, no special weps, or use of abilites ::)

Tommies beat grens at all ranges fairly evenly. It's best to sit at long range in cover, with a LT in tow, when facing grens. Lee-Enfield's don't get the same cooldown bonuses that M1 Garands do in short range. They are long range weapons primarily like K98s.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
Tommies beat grens at all ranges fairly evenly. It's best to sit at long range in cover, with a LT in tow, when facing grens. Lee-Enfield's don't get the same cooldown bonuses that M1 Garands do in short range. They are long range weapons primarily like K98s.

But still, Vet 2 should turn the tide to Grens. Elite Armor is a powerful bonus for the Grens and at range I think it is not so hard for them to dispatch Tommies without an officer nearby, in a 1v1 of course.

If a Tommies had a Bren then I think it's another tossup between Vet 2 VS Bren. LMG42s on Grens are nice and can suppress with some effort, and may turn the tide again, but risky as only 4 men carry it and snipers/recon squads are dangerous VS the 4 man team. This applies for the shreck too, if you're equipping your Gren/Storm squads with more than one upgrade (Unless it's MP44) then you're much more prone to lose munitions, and enemy squads with your weapons tend to be very angry.

TY. But I have another:

How many Motorbikes does it take to get to the breaking point of a tommie squad?

(Its suppose to sound like the tootsie pop commercial for those of you that don't know why I phrased it like that)

I ask this b/c I saw (or read) somewhere that bikes are effetive vs Brits since they can take out brens and they're fast + cheap + work well with tier 1

Fishhunterx wrote:
TY. But I have another:

How many Motorbikes does it take to get to the breaking point of a tommie squad?

(Its suppose to sound like the tootsie pop commercial for those of you that don't know why I phrased it like that)

I ask this b/c I saw (or read) somewhere that bikes are effetive vs Brits since they can take out brens and they're fast + cheap + work well with tier 1

Bikes are not so reliable in T1 because they lack capping power. Other than that it's a fairly decent investment I suppose, good anti-sniper/Engie harassment device. They are fairly quick to repair when pulled from combat, although this distracts your pios from capping/fighting.

Bikes can match or even destroy Brens which makes them effective VS brits. They can also "Push" enemy squads, which means that it's almost like crushing, only instead of killing the enemy squads you force them to move. This is extremely effective when you want to pin down an enemy squad with an MG42 which is in green cover. Simply use the bike to push them into no cover and tada, your enemy is now eating dirt.

Overall I would rather save for a MG42 then get a Bike. It's a solid investment, but not your first nor second unit outta the T1 building.

As for taking down Tommies? I'd say 3 bikes alone can do the job. 1-2 if you have a Volks/Piospam.

2 bikes > upgunned Bren carrier.

Never use bikes against tommies though. Brenned tommies eat through bikes like nothing else. I've destroyed 6 bikes with a single Bren tommy squad in a few seconds before.

Bikes can be useful to hunt Brens, LTs and locate/kill enemy emplacements while they're building. In fact, they kill an under-construction emplacement in just a couple bursts.

Talking about Bren Carrier. How I use it whole match? From what I read from other posts, I was told how to use them early part of the match, but how I use them later? Should I upgrade it? Can LT/Captain provide vet when sit on a Bren? I don't use it much but become more curious after see it too much on CoH lately.

Maybe you can use it to assist in engaging enemy infantry. With the MMG upgrade it can surpress and w/o it it can pin vehicles down with Button ability. Assuming it lives that long :P I tcan hunt don light armored vehicles with the MMG to if you use AP rounds :)

I have a Q. How do you get rid of a sniper if its hiding behind an MG, bike, and there is a volks or MG nearby. I say this b/c I had the unpleaent experience of having to deal with this on Dulciar and his forcess were consolidated on the VP in the middle and near his base :'(. I tried to flank several times but it failed >:(

mortar barrages with inf support or get light vehicle

Fishhunterx wrote:
I have a Q. How do you get rid of a sniper if its hiding behind an MG, bike, and there is a volks or MG nearby. I say this b/c I had the unpleaent experience of having to deal with this on Dulciar and his forcess were consolidated on the VP in the middle and near his base :'(. I tried to flank several times but it failed >:(

get a sniper-> get ur commissar-> bring ur sniper in position-> use unsurpressable abilitiy from commissar and push like rambo in the area u think the sniper is-> enemy sniper will be decloaked-> snip it... very easy hehe...

I was playing as Amis :P. Not the same thing :P

Anyways I have another Q. How many AT guns should one get. I always feel like I get too little and they die due to strafe. Sometimes I focus more on StuG but that doesn't work sometimes :P. I know this Q is more situational but what should be like the default number ???

Always at least 2 IMO. Start off with 1 to counter the first M8, then get another pretty much ASAP as long as your infantry is enough to hold him off.

TY. I have another Q. Some ppl say tht some maps favor other factions and some people say that your strating position on a map is a deciding factor as well.  I've heard this argument on both EF and vCOH maps. Is this true or are they just having a hardtime personally ???.

If it is true can you justify your answer as to why a paticular faction or positon may help :P

Sturz is the classic example of starting position drastically affecting how you play the map. It was extremely imbalanced in the old days but was "fixed" in the most recent patch (but is still a little IMBA). North Sturz had access to FAR more munitions than South, but South had easier access to the fuel points.

Due to the way some factions play differently to others, each map may emphasise these differences depending on its design. Angoville for instance, favours Brits immensely because of the clusters of high resource points on each side. Brits are also immune to cutoffs which is Angoville's main gameplay feature. Ango also slightly favours US over Wehr because of the flank opportunities and cutoff gameplay. Semois slightly favours Wehr because of the undeniable medium fuel outside your base that allows Wehr to tech extremely easily.

Usually skill is much more of a deciding factor in the match than the map anyway. However, sometimes it does come down to the slight nuances in the map that change the outcome.