#77576
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
I think he said they messed up designing them, and when the design flaws were finally worked out they still broke down anyway
superior german engineering
superior german engineering
Soviet is OP
Archived topic · 97 posts
Best Medium Tank of WWII
Eastern Front
#77577
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
RedGuard wrote:
I think he said they messed up designing them, and when the design flaws were finally worked out they still broke down anyway
superior german engineering
sigh^^
Then he didnt read my previous comment.
#77579
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
RedGuard wrote:
I think he said they messed up designing them, and when the design flaws were finally worked out they still broke down anyway
superior german engineering
Actually, Panther(and Tigers) were fixed and most of the breakdowns were due to beeing overused, because of vehicle shortage. Still Soviets lost many tanks due to failures like 2men turrets and no radios.
superior soviet engineering
#77585
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
maxi1991 wrote:RedGuard wrote:
I think he said they messed up designing them, and when the design flaws were finally worked out they still broke down anyway
superior german engineering
Actually, Panther(and Tigers) were fixed and most of the breakdowns were due to beeing overused, because of vehicle shortage. Still Soviets lost many tanks due to failures like 2men turrets and no radios.
superior soviet engineering
yeah superior alright, it won the war
theres story books dedicated to how axis tank crews tried to drive up a small hill with a light breeze and the tank broke down :-X
Soviet is OP
#77635
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
RedGuard wrote:
theres story books dedicated to how axis tank crews tried to drive up a small hill with a light breeze and the tank broke down :-X
Can you show me these story books?
#77636
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
without doing extensive researching heres a few you can start with, quoted german engineers as saying their engines had an almost 80% mechanical failure in the field
Germany's Tiger Tanks:VK45.02 to TIGER II
Panzertruppen
The Last Battle
the specific book which follows a tiger tank crew around griping about its unreliability, name has escaped me but I will rediscover it and post it for you very good reads with relatively unbiased technical reporting
the books also unanimously agree that the panzer 4 series was outclassed by the t34 series, as do every other WWII expert I've ever encountered or read. and the panther is not a medium tank it weighs about as much as an IS-2 ;)
the panther tank weighs 1.2 tons less than an IS-2 at 44.8 tons compared to 46.0 tons
the panzer 4 and t34 weighed about 25 tons, thats a medium tank
an IS-2 will penetrate a panther at 2,500m using the BR-471 APHE 122mm round. the panther could do nothing like this
source http://www.battlefield.ru/is2_1.html
Germany's Tiger Tanks:VK45.02 to TIGER II
Panzertruppen
The Last Battle
the specific book which follows a tiger tank crew around griping about its unreliability, name has escaped me but I will rediscover it and post it for you very good reads with relatively unbiased technical reporting
the books also unanimously agree that the panzer 4 series was outclassed by the t34 series, as do every other WWII expert I've ever encountered or read. and the panther is not a medium tank it weighs about as much as an IS-2 ;)
the panther tank weighs 1.2 tons less than an IS-2 at 44.8 tons compared to 46.0 tons
the panzer 4 and t34 weighed about 25 tons, thats a medium tank
an IS-2 will penetrate a panther at 2,500m using the BR-471 APHE 122mm round. the panther could do nothing like this
source http://www.battlefield.ru/is2_1.html
Soviet is OP
Last edited July 3, 2011 at 8:18 AM by RedGuard
#77641
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
link is broken.
But yeah panther was a medium tank from german point of view. Most allied "heavy" tanks were nearly the same weight.
Most problems about this "unrealiability" was that the tanks and their gears were designed for much ligher vehicles. Thats because armor protection was rapidly increased and also the weight.
In fact most tiger tanks in the normandy werent lost by fighting or an air attack. They were blown up by their own crews because they ran out of fuel or broke down.
Like i said some needed changes (better engine, better gear that could sustaine the wight) couldnt make they way in the tank, becuase the time for developing was too short, air raids destroyed factories to produce them, too few ressources ...
Panthers shared the same engine with tigers and kt. A new engine, which was turbo charged, was ready to produced when the war was over. But this engine could have speeded up a kt alot.
So there are more facts to look at than only to say germans were too dumb to build a tank.
I read the wiki entry about t34. This tank had alot of problems in the beginning too. gear braking down, engine fires, mostly unreliable. Before the war soviets and germans shared their technology in tank building. So a PanzerIII made its way to soviet union in 1940. After a comparison of the t34 and the panzerIII soviet engineers granted the german tank in most aspects to be better than their own tank. It had a more comfortable figthing compartment, better quality, more speed, engine was more quiet and easy to repair. But T34 had on the contrary had sloped armor and a better main gun.
But yeah panther was a medium tank from german point of view. Most allied "heavy" tanks were nearly the same weight.
Most problems about this "unrealiability" was that the tanks and their gears were designed for much ligher vehicles. Thats because armor protection was rapidly increased and also the weight.
In fact most tiger tanks in the normandy werent lost by fighting or an air attack. They were blown up by their own crews because they ran out of fuel or broke down.
Like i said some needed changes (better engine, better gear that could sustaine the wight) couldnt make they way in the tank, becuase the time for developing was too short, air raids destroyed factories to produce them, too few ressources ...
Panthers shared the same engine with tigers and kt. A new engine, which was turbo charged, was ready to produced when the war was over. But this engine could have speeded up a kt alot.
So there are more facts to look at than only to say germans were too dumb to build a tank.
I read the wiki entry about t34. This tank had alot of problems in the beginning too. gear braking down, engine fires, mostly unreliable. Before the war soviets and germans shared their technology in tank building. So a PanzerIII made its way to soviet union in 1940. After a comparison of the t34 and the panzerIII soviet engineers granted the german tank in most aspects to be better than their own tank. It had a more comfortable figthing compartment, better quality, more speed, engine was more quiet and easy to repair. But T34 had on the contrary had sloped armor and a better main gun.
#77646
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
I cannot believe that nobody voted for the Sherman Firefly
It was supposed to be the counter to German heavies, I guess :P
Calculus Rocks
It was supposed to be the counter to German heavies, I guess :P
Calculus Rocks
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#77647
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
My vote goes for P4. I think that's what Guderian would've voted for too.
The unreliability of the German tanks was mostly because of maintenance shortages and lack of decent fuel caused by the overextended supply lines. The variety of German tanks didn't help either. Parts had to be manufactured for each tank seperately whereas a mass production tank could easily have parts available.
The unreliability of the German tanks was mostly because of maintenance shortages and lack of decent fuel caused by the overextended supply lines. The variety of German tanks didn't help either. Parts had to be manufactured for each tank seperately whereas a mass production tank could easily have parts available.
If you get into an argument with me, you're wrong.
#77658
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
It seems that the M4 Shermans were destroyed by the dozen during WWII. But the Allies always had more. What exactly happened to them in the postwar period?
Calculus
dx/dt = v
dv/dt = a
Calculus
dx/dt = v
dv/dt = a
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Last edited July 3, 2011 at 1:53 PM by Tankbuster
#77663
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Scrapped or sold to nations around the world like the Russians did with theirs. Many Israeli tanks are based on the M4 Sherman I believe.
If you get into an argument with me, you're wrong.
#77686
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
GodlikeDennis wrote:
Scrapped or sold to nations around the world like the Russians did with theirs. Many Israeli tanks are based on the M4 Sherman I believe.
Who would buy the M4s unless they were for free. Also Wikipedia says that they were used for farming. :o yep farming.
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dx/dt = v
dv/dt = a
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#77692
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Tankbuster wrote:GodlikeDennis wrote:
Scrapped or sold to nations around the world like the Russians did with theirs. Many Israeli tanks are based on the M4 Sherman I believe.
Who would buy the M4s unless they were for free. Also Wikipedia says that they were used for farming. :o yep farming.
I heared a story where 2 Wespe were used for farming after the war... cause they war free.
#77701
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
I thought Shermans were used in Korea? At least some :o
My English is kind of useless. But that because Iam swedish Wooohoooj! ;3
My English is kind of useless. But that because Iam swedish Wooohoooj! ;3
#77703
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
that israeli war, 7 day war iirc, was like a WWII tank battle with some modern tanks thrown in
Soviet is OP
#77733
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
I want a Su-85 for free :(
I'm drunk now, I'm outranked you in philosophy.
#77763
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
stavka88 wrote:
I want a Su-85 for free :(
What would you do with it?
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#77764
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Sommarkatze wrote:
I thought Shermans were used in Korea? At least some :o
Whats strange about that? They were realiable tanks that could be upgunned easiely.
Its not a Firefly. It has a 105 gun and destroyed a T-54!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postwar_Sherman_tanks
Last edited July 4, 2011 at 6:21 AM by Paciat
#77771
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
105 howitzer?
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#77782
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Wikipedia wrote:
Sherman M-4 (Sherman degem Bet prior to 1956) - Israeli designation of any Sherman model armed with the 105 mm howitzer M4.
Lemberg - Baraque de Fraiture - Smolensk - Heiligenbeil - Nobel Dynamite Works - Lorient - Poltawa
#77806
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Wikipedia says that they were used in the 1965 Indo-Pak war on both sides. Interestingly, Pakistan never won a war with India.
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Last edited July 4, 2011 at 2:09 PM by Tankbuster
#77966
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
If I have a Su-85, I'll drive it, use the gun to ram the door house of a girl and ask her a dinner. I'm sure she won't deny my invitation :D.
Did the US use shermans in vietnam war? I heard some of US inf still use thompson in early part of the war :P
Did the US use shermans in vietnam war? I heard some of US inf still use thompson in early part of the war :P
I'm drunk now, I'm outranked you in philosophy.
#77969
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
I dont think they used the sherman in the same way they did in WWII, if it was used at all it was probably a howitzer variant for indirect fire mobile arty, or dozer for construction/demolition.
the patton was the MBT in vietnam. it was a huge leap in survivability at the time.
the patton was the MBT in vietnam. it was a huge leap in survivability at the time.
Soviet is OP
#77991
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
stavka88 wrote:
If I have a Su-85, I'll drive it, use the gun to ram the door house of a girl and ask her a dinner. I'm sure she won't deny my invitation :D.
Hmm, I remain Skeptical.
stavka88 wrote:
Did the US use shermans in vietnam war? I heard some of US inf still use thompson in early part of the war :P
The Thompson was an excellent SMG. It could have been used. Not a chance for the Sherman. The US already had M48 Pattons
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Last edited July 5, 2011 at 9:54 AM by Tankbuster
#77993
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
RedGuard wrote:
I dont think they used the sherman in the same way they did in WWII, if it was used at all it was probably a howitzer variant for indirect fire mobile arty, or dozer for construction/demolition.
Howitzer?
Thats not a howitzer. Thats a modern tank gun. Sherman M-51 proved itself capable of fighting newer, heavier tanks like the Soviet-built T-54/55/T-62 just like PanzerIV proved itself at fighting T-34 after its gun was upgraded.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Sherman
#78053
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Now the Sherman look bad-ass like the other soviet tanks :). Are we gonna have the next poll "Best heavy tank in WII" and "Best light tank in WWII"?
I'm drunk now, I'm outranked you in philosophy.
#78062
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
alot of WW2 stuff was used in Korea by America because initially the Americans were caught off guard so the 1st troops in were those stationed in Japan which had alot of Shermans and other older equipment. Also we used alot of reserve forces which were not armed with our most modern equipment naturally. Most of the newer bombers were also left at home as atomic deterrent.
#78075
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Thanks for the sherman confirmation! And the thompson smg was widely used in Vietnam yes. Mostly by the ARVN who were equipped with old GI equipment. So I Think yes maybe the south vietnameses got a couples of shermans but dont citate me on it!
My English is kind of useless. But that because Iam swedish Wooohoooj! ;3
My English is kind of useless. But that because Iam swedish Wooohoooj! ;3
#78325
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Howdy guys. I am a Tank fanboy.
The THompson M1A1 and a variant of the Sherman were both used by Amis in Vietnam. The Israeli Sherman is a 105 main tank gun utilizing Standardized NATO Ammunition. I believe THe Centurion holds pride of place in influencing Israeli Armor design.
WWII:
The THompson M1A1 and a variant of the Sherman were both used by Amis in Vietnam. The Israeli Sherman is a 105 main tank gun utilizing Standardized NATO Ammunition. I believe THe Centurion holds pride of place in influencing Israeli Armor design.
WWII:
- Coolest medium tank: Pz Vg.
- Most widely used tank: Sherman. Not only did every Allied Nation use them (including the Italians after 1943), but the Germans used them too.
- "Get there first with the most" -Bedford Forrest CSA. Dead heat the T34 and the Sherman.
- Best medium tank of WWII: THe T34. Influenced Tank Design for over fifty years. Still in service in more than 20 countries. Last seen in combat in Bosnia. (Shermans were used there too)!
- No Prize: All the maintenance and tank crews that kept those absurd Water Tanks in operation.
I AM A TANK FANBOY 8)
Storybooks: Panzertales
Storybooks: Panzertales
孫 The
子 Art
兵 of
[b] 法 War
EF_v1.7.10
子 Art
Illegitimi non Carborundum -"Vinegar" Joe Stilwell
兵 of
Sun Tzu says: In warfare one compels and is not compelled by others
[b] 法 War
Last edited July 7, 2011 at 2:44 AM by Otto 213
#78591
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
OOh! love the comic. Say did the Germans read these comics when they were bored in their tanks.
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#78614
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Tankbuster wrote:Not unless they had a time machine and could read Japanese. BTW that's my buddy Otto in the Comic.
OOh! love the comic. Say did the Germans read these comics when they were bored in their tanks.
http://www.world-tank-museum.com/panzertales.html
Q1. How many of the tanks in this poll would be excluded From EF by virtue of the "Units that will never be in EF criteria poster"?
Q2. Isn't the 40 M Turan a tank destroyer?
孫 The
子 Art
兵 of
[b] 法 War
EF_v1.7.10
子 Art
Illegitimi non Carborundum -"Vinegar" Joe Stilwell
兵 of
Sun Tzu says: In warfare one compels and is not compelled by others
[b] 法 War
Last edited July 9, 2011 at 12:29 PM by Otto 213
#78642
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Otto wrote:Tankbuster wrote:Not unless they had a time machine and could read Japanese. BTW that's my buddy Otto in the Comic.
OOh! love the comic. Say did the Germans read these comics when they were bored in their tanks.
http://www.world-tank-museum.com/panzertales.html
Q1. How many of the tanks in this poll would be excluded From EF by virtue of the "Units that will never be in EF criteria poster"?
Q2. Isn't the 40 M Turan a tank destroyer?
Read the comic. It is written in English. It is about the Tiger. So it has a higher chance of being originally written in German rather than Japanese. However, the Germans must be busy destroying Shermans(did I rap) to get enough time to read them.
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#78705
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Get the Panzertales book! Wounderful bedtime reading! :D
(If I ever get a girlfriend.. AGAIN (nawh..) Iam going to read that book with her in hopes he gets into tanks<3)
My English is kind of useless. But that because Iam swedish Wooohoooj! ;3
(If I ever get a girlfriend.. AGAIN (nawh..) Iam going to read that book with her in hopes he gets into tanks<3)
My English is kind of useless. But that because Iam swedish Wooohoooj! ;3
#78735
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Otto wrote:Tankbuster wrote:Not unless they had a time machine and could read Japanese. BTW that's my buddy Otto in the Comic.
OOh! love the comic. Say did the Germans read these comics when they were bored in their tanks.
http://www.world-tank-museum.com/panzertales.html
Q1. How many of the tanks in this poll would be excluded From EF by virtue of the "Units that will never be in EF criteria poster"?
Q2. Isn't the 40 M Turan a tank destroyer?
The 40 M Turan is just a regular Medium tank that had a 40mm gun, not neatly strong enough to be on a TD
/Hungary/Tanks/Turan1-40M/Left-bis.jpg)
#78755
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Sommarkatze wrote:
(If I ever get a girlfriend.. AGAIN (nawh..) Iam going to read that book with her in hopes he gets into tanks<3)
goodluck getting him to enjoy it, my wife has grown to loathe the military/historical/political television shows
there just not into guy stuff
Soviet is OP
#78770
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
DrRockzo1986 wrote:
The 40 M Turan is just a regular Medium tank that had a 40mm gun, not neatly strong enough to be on a TD
Looks like a mix of Matilda II and Panzer IV. Beautiful though. I hope this will be the 2nd tank to make it into Ostheers foreign battle group. :P
Lemberg - Baraque de Fraiture - Smolensk - Heiligenbeil - Nobel Dynamite Works - Lorient - Poltawa
#78771
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Isnt it a little too heavy for the foreign tanks?
#78775
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
The American offmap combat group does also contain M10s/Hellcats, so why not.
Edit: It's weight is just 19,2 tons.
Lemberg - Baraque de Fraiture - Smolensk - Heiligenbeil - Nobel Dynamite Works - Lorient - Poltawa
Edit: It's weight is just 19,2 tons.
Lemberg - Baraque de Fraiture - Smolensk - Heiligenbeil - Nobel Dynamite Works - Lorient - Poltawa
Last edited July 10, 2011 at 10:49 AM by MaxiKing6
#78794
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Killar wrote:
Isnt it a little too heavy for the foreign tanks?
It also lacks the penetration and the damage of "Heavier" tanks like Shermans and P4s. This would act like a heftier and more slow version of a Stuart or T70
"Balancers are 10 a penny"
#78846
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Cranialwizard wrote:Killar wrote:
Isnt it a little too heavy for the foreign tanks?
It also lacks the penetration and the damage of "Heavier" tanks like Shermans and P4s. This would act like a heftier and more slow version of a Stuart or T70
We have PzIII for that. Dont think Ostheer will ever need a slow tank with a puny gun in late game.
#78847
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
Could be nice news for the next sneaky peaky. The reveal of the foreign call in group.
Is there already known how many different tanks will be included?
Is there already known how many different tanks will be included?
#78864
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
The Brits Churchill call in is heavier, slower, and has a 40mm gun (they call it a 2 pdr) just like the 40m. The latter is twice as fast, but has half as much armor
#78879
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
american TD's in OMCG dont really have effective armor, I dont count them as tanks
your not guaranteed to get one either
your not guaranteed to get one either
Soviet is OP
#80032
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
ap6y3 wrote:
я считаю, что т34 best of best самый массовый(интересный факт: немцы с 1939-1945 изготовили 23000 танков,а в СССР на одном заводе <УРАЛ ВАГОН ЗАВОД> изготовили с 1941-1945 только одних т34 28000 штук), орудие тоже отвечало задачам которые перед ним ставили.
English!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >:(
#80036
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
DrRockzo1986 wrote:
The Brits Churchill call in is heavier, slower, and has a 40mm gun (they call it a 2 pdr) just like the 40m. The latter is twice as fast, but has half as much armor
No, Churchill has a (Mk IV version) 6pounder (OQF 57mm). Tetrarch has a 2pounder.
#80062
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
You're right ;D the Wiki page for churchills was a little ambiguous as to what guns were on which tanks. it said on the main column that the main armament was a Qf 2 pounder and that was the only one listed when in reality there were at least 3 different ones used. I had to read pretty much the whole article to have it go something like:
Mk I-II = 2 pdr
Mk III-IV = 6 pdr
Mk VI-whatever = 75mm
Mk I-II = 2 pdr
Mk III-IV = 6 pdr
Mk VI-whatever = 75mm
#81260
Re: Best Medium Tank of WWII
@DocRoc: THe various websites do seem to have a paucity of data on the Churchill. The 75mm gun was only used for Home Defense Churchills. It was mounted in the hull, sort of like the M3 Lee/Grant. From what I've read the turret of the Churchill was too small to mount anything larger than the 6 Pounder.
A note on the M4. Most of the involved powers concentrated on upgrading to diesels to increase HP. THe Sherman used 80 Octane fuel.
A note on the M4. Most of the involved powers concentrated on upgrading to diesels to increase HP. THe Sherman used 80 Octane fuel.
孫 The
子 Art
兵 of
[b] 法 War
EF_v1.7.10
子 Art
Illegitimi non Carborundum -"Vinegar" Joe Stilwell
兵 of
Sun Tzu says: In warfare one compels and is not compelled by others
[b] 法 War