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Hafthohlladung

Ostheer Suggestions

#76919

Re: Hafthohlladung

pariah wrote:
Yeah, you could try that. Not so sure it would work that well, though...

I'm sure that is not going to work. As Pariah said before, Stickies worked in this way, but there's a reason why relic made them homing devices.

No one would let you get close to a tank to plant it and also, most likely you will lost all your squad trying to plant it. Giving you less soldiers to fight him.
Mors Indecepta

Might controls everything, and without strength you cannot protect anything. Let alone yourself...
#76920

Re: Hafthohlladung

Well I said before that if its possible you could make the squad (or even just the guy planting) invincible to being crushed. You know since he has to get in close Im sure his awareness is goin to be alot higher and that awareness could be translated as his invincibility to being crushed. Again if thats even possible.
An Ocelot never lets his prey escape

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#76921

Re: Hafthohlladung

I guess it would be possible, but it wouldn't be good. Think of the poor Sniper with the worthless rifle... :'(
#76922

Re: Hafthohlladung

Oh lol I just got waht you were saying  ;D. Yeah i can see that they just keep moving away or something like that. Well I guess we could make it like Stickys but with more damage and only slightly less range if that would satisfy the devs.

Post Merge: [time]1309277907[/time]

pariah wrote:
I guess it would be possible, but it wouldn't be good. Think of the poor Sniper with the worthless rifle... :'(


Lol i think this one went way over my head.

Post Merge: [time]1309278372[/time]

Ok well how about this: they could add a sprint effect to it that lasts from when the ability is intiated until the thing is planted to make sure that the tank wont be able to get away or at least get away as easily.
An Ocelot never lets his prey escape

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Last edited June 28, 2011 at 4:27 PM by DrRockzo1986

#76930

Re: Hafthohlladung

It is unacceptable if it has less range than a stickie.  Stickies at their normal range can already be kited easily.  Imagine riflemen trying to stickie a puma except the stickies have even less range.  A big massacre will occur.  Doesn't matter if there's sprint; vehicles can still kite.  Invincibility to being crushed is just stupid and poor balance.  This is really an idea only bridge map noobs think of.  Its not practical in-game.

Last edited June 28, 2011 at 7:29 PM by Yauz

#76931

Re: Hafthohlladung

You do realize we're talking from the Axis side, right? Allies don't have a vehicle that can massacre infantry like that, except for the Stuart, but that's an ability, and very hit-and-miss...
#76933

Re: Hafthohlladung

pariah wrote:
You do realize we're talking from the Axis side, right? Allies don't have a vehicle that can massacre infantry like that, except for the Stuart, but that's an ability, and very hit-and-miss...

Even if allies don't have a vehicle that can match Wehr Infantry killers, his point is correct, what are you going to "stick" ?? a M8/Sherman/M10? The last one will crush anything that comes near, the other two are good against infantry let alone that they can kite pretty well (not too sure about the sherman though). Ofc, there could be situations where this can be done, e.g. with a player with poor micro, distracted or in team games where an ally treadbroke the enemy vehicle/tank.
Mors Indecepta

Might controls everything, and without strength you cannot protect anything. Let alone yourself...
#76934

Re: Hafthohlladung

I know he's correct, and i agree, but i'm just trying to be fair is all...
#76935

Re: Hafthohlladung

pariah wrote:
I know he's correct, and i agree, but i'm just trying to be fair is all...

Yeah, but we all agree that this cannot be implemented in EF in this way :(. It's not about not being fair, just that doesn't fit. Perhaps in a realistic mod this could be in the described way but not in a mod that has the same gameplay than CoH.

So, if somehow this idea is applied to Ostheer, they will behave like US stickies and not like demo charges.
Mors Indecepta

Might controls everything, and without strength you cannot protect anything. Let alone yourself...
#76936

Re: Hafthohlladung

Well, i like to be fair...

I don't think they should be in Eastern Front if they are exactly like Sticky Bombs, because i hate copy-paste things...
#76944

Re: Hafthohlladung

Yauz wrote:
It is unacceptable if it has less range than a stickie.  Stickies at their normal range can already be kited easily.  Imagine riflemen trying to stickie a puma except the stickies have even less range.  A big massacre will occur.  Doesn't matter if there's sprint; vehicles can still kite.  Invincibility to being crushed is just stupid and poor balance.  This is really an idea only bridge map noobs think of.  Its not practical in-game.



lmao really? name calling?  ::) come on man grow up

Post Merge: [time]1309296918[/time]

Anyway you guys can do it however you want Ill just leave it up to you to make it work, if it can.
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Last edited June 28, 2011 at 9:35 PM by DrRockzo1986

#76946

Re: Hafthohlladung

Honestly, man, i don't think it can. I'd like to see it used, but it just doesn't seem feasible...
#76947

Re: Hafthohlladung

I gotcha but it at least felt good to almost get one :D
An Ocelot never lets his prey escape

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#76991

Re: Hafthohlladung

DrRockzo1986 wrote:
Yauz wrote:
It is unacceptable if it has less range than a stickie.  Stickies at their normal range can already be kited easily.  Imagine riflemen trying to stickie a puma except the stickies have even less range.  A big massacre will occur.  Doesn't matter if there's sprint; vehicles can still kite.  Invincibility to being crushed is just stupid and poor balance.  This is really an idea only bridge map noobs think of.  Its not practical in-game.



lmao really? name calling?  ::) come on man grow up


haha +1
Soviet is OP
#77016

Re: Hafthohlladung

The point still stands. A 0 range ability has absolutely zero practical use. No good player will EVER let you get in range... EVER. It's just not going to happen.
If you get into an argument with me, you're wrong.
#77025

Re: Hafthohlladung

As i said, it could work if the treads are broken. But if the Ostheer don't have a Tread Breaker ability, this ability would barely be used.
#77031

Re: Hafthohlladung

Even if the vehicle is treadbroken, that doesn't represent a high chance of success. However, there's no abilities designed only for team games iirc.
Mors Indecepta

Might controls everything, and without strength you cannot protect anything. Let alone yourself...
#77036

Re: Hafthohlladung

I know. Again, i'm just trying to be fair. ;)
#77136

Re: Hafthohlladung

In the blitzkrieg mod (I hope I don't suddenly get a bunch of -1's  ::) )
has a hafthohlladung ability for normal Grenadier squads. I have never had any issues with it, and it works great (except for most of the squad dying by mg).
"Stop playing the fool!"
#77150

Re: Hafthohlladung

(-1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1)

Hee hee, that would be fun like pin the tale on the donkey...

Besides its like a last resort like weapon. I wouldn't even use stickies unless I were desparate. Though its damage would probably have to reflect the difficulty in getting the damn thing on!

Post Merge: [time]1309415366[/time]

Oh I was kidding about the -1s :D
OIY! Get your filthy hands off the Maus!
http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=5672.0

Hee hee, I added colour to the avatar. Isn't it nice?
#77176

Re: Hafthohlladung

It could be made like the piat-ambush of the Brits. When the unit is in cover, and you activate the ability the unit becomes hidden, and if a tank comes in range of the unit it will trigger one of the men to run at the tank and plant the hohlladung on the tank.

#77190

Re: Hafthohlladung

Na I don't think that would work particularly well Maxi, why don't we just not include this weapon?

It doesn't fit into the base theory of CoH that well. (Sticky noobs don't run up to tanks and plant, they throw them) If we were to implement it, it would just be a renamed, shorter range, more powerful Sticky, which ain't too creative, so I believe this is one weapon that shouldn't be included.

I'm sure the Ostheer will have plenty of AT weapons, so this is not necessary at all. They get AT rifles pretty early and Panzerschrecks in mid game, so why give them a Sticky?
#77230

Re: Hafthohlladung

GodlikeDennis wrote:
The point still stands. A 0 range ability has absolutely zero practical use. No good player will EVER let you get in range... EVER. It's just not going to happen.


yeah just look at stickys and AT nades, they're almost useless vs skilled opponents. they only work when opponent is not paying attention or make a mistake
Soviet is OP
#77244

Re: Hafthohlladung

Well, german stickies are funny to use in N44; from a competitive point of view it would be kinda pointless, but I wouldn't be horrified to see this idea in Ostheer.
"Du sublime au ridicule, il n'y a qu'un pas"
-Napoléon Bonaparte
#77245

Re: Hafthohlladung

Paladin88 wrote:
Oh I was kidding about the -1s :D


I figured so.  ;)
"Stop playing the fool!"
#77247

Re: Hafthohlladung

I think AT grenades help the SU tank hunters considering it would take them forever to destroy, say a Stug for example, without them. But they use AT rifles, just sayin that AT nades arent completely useless
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#77251

Re: Hafthohlladung

Did we say they were useless? I was implying that AT rifles that later upgrade to Panzerschrecks, are more than plenty (considering how both will be available with a player who acttually knows what they are doing) to deal with any Allied Armor that the Ostheer will encounter. AT grenades aren't needed for the Ostheer.

The Soviet AT nades are quite useful, but don't forget until Soviets hit the tank depot they have only TH or a Pak, both of which aren't quite efficient vs. later vehis, so the AT nades are a stopgap, for Guards and THs to ward of the earlier arrivals on the battlefield, before the Heavy armor hits the field. They do their job, but they don't home onto tank, which isn't really needed in their case because this AT nade is free and there is no upgrade to research it.

And RedGuard, I can't say that Stickies can't be used on a player who knows what he is doing, the damn things home onto tanks and considering that Allied Rifles can be spammed and then have 3 or 4 of them use this ability to kill off a PZ4 at Vet 2 for very few munis. Most people just spam rifles against Tanks because a few Stickies and an un-upgunned Sherman (usually not needed from experience) and I just lost a Panther or an Ostwind, then they retreat and repeat, having a seemingly endless supply of munis.
#77290

Re: Hafthohlladung

AT nades are most effective combined with the AT mines that THs can lay that has a high engine damage probability. It's practically the only time a good player will let you hit him with AT nades. They're also useful against a really agressive puma that tries to get in close and circle around your AT gun etc.
If you get into an argument with me, you're wrong.
#77404

Re: Hafthohlladung

@neos like I said you only get a sticky off if your opponent made a mistake or isnt looking. this is of course assuming your opponent is a skilled player.

it just doesnt happen in high level play
Soviet is OP
#77501

Re: Hafthohlladung

I'm sorry neos but I agree with Red, tanks should never get close enough to be stickied. Show me a replay where sticky bombs were used in a pro way (like the player had no choice but to get that close) and I'd agree with you until then...
OIY! Get your filthy hands off the Maus!
http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=5672.0

Hee hee, I added colour to the avatar. Isn't it nice?
#77519

Re: Hafthohlladung

Paladin88 wrote:
I'm sorry neos but I agree with Red, tanks should never get close enough to be stickied. Show me a replay where sticky bombs were used in a pro way (like the player had no choice but to get that close) and I'd agree with you until then...


Stickies can be executed if your opponent is attempting to crush. I've crushed 5/6 men in a rifle squad and the last guy managed to sticky me...but then I crushed him too because it didn't damage the engine (:<
"Balancers are 10 a penny"
#77520

Re: Hafthohlladung

On close quater combat maps the rock like on Linden they are a simple and useful at weapon to slow down a enemy rush i.e. PE halftrack rush.
I identify as a four-eyed bird man. /s
#77926

Re: Hafthohlladung

QuoteStickies can be executed if your opponent is attempting to crush. I've crushed 5/6 men in a rifle squad and the last guy managed to sticky me...but then I crushed him too because it didn't damage the engine (:<


I never saw a AT grenade never break anything. How is that possible?
The Russians think there sooo tough, wait till the Ostheer comes...

Coh Name: Seeme
#77935

Re: Hafthohlladung

Seeme wrote:
QuoteStickies can be executed if your opponent is attempting to crush. I've crushed 5/6 men in a rifle squad and the last guy managed to sticky me...but then I crushed him too because it didn't damage the engine (:<


I never saw a AT grenade never break anything. How is that possible?


1) Crushing is very rare.  Even if you know how to crush properly, and you have the intent to do so, its very hard to pull off, unless your opponent is doing stupid move orders.

2) German armor skirts have a chance to neglect damaged engine effects from stickies.
#77953

Re: Hafthohlladung

yeah once axis tanks get skirted you need like 350 muni to sticky a tank to death, skirts tell stickys nice try ;)
Soviet is OP
#78011

Re: Hafthohlladung

Ha ha, Stickies weren't effective in real life anyway. Shrugs
OIY! Get your filthy hands off the Maus!
http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=5672.0

Hee hee, I added colour to the avatar. Isn't it nice?
#78198

Re: Hafthohlladung

Yep.

Just finished a 3vs3 and my Stormtroopers had 2 AT launchers and they took forever to reload. Not to mention the Sherman tank they were trying to destory would not die. It had like 1/10 HP, but everytime I would hit it, it's like "Engine Damaged" "Engine Destroyed" "Main Barrel Damaged", I lost the squad because he had rifleman on them while the Sherman was going God mode on me.

I like the close range explosive idea, as long as it does solid damage to make it worth running up there.

Nice video by the way.
You bathe in the sunlight one moment, then your smashed against the rocks the next. What makes a man, is what you do next.


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#79951

Re: Hafthohlladung

This has been included in Blitzkrieg mod, and it is coded so that infantry charging the tank aren't crushed unless a SECOND infantry crush enabled unit runs them over--the target can't. The unit also sprints up to the tank, and after planting, you lose control of them for ~5 seconds as they book it in the opposite direction (same as after engineers/sappers plant demo charges). It works fine there, its balanced, and it works for its cost, don't see why one of you chaps cant simply contact Xcalibur and ask him what coding he used to impliment the H-dung the way he did.
Pocketsize wrote:
I can't wait till they add british to CoH:O; the extreme forces leveled by the new imbalances will create a black hole around the servers that destroys half of Canada.
#79964

Re: Hafthohlladung

Y is the Sherman have to be so tough in coh!
Eviction [WIP]
"What is it !? I am busy Fighting Americans!"- Stormtrooper.
#80768

Re: Hafthohlladung

To fight the Panzer 4
The Russians think there sooo tough, wait till the Ostheer comes...

Coh Name: Seeme
#80826

Re: Hafthohlladung

u but gets an upgrade and is still really good against inf!
Eviction [WIP]
"What is it !? I am busy Fighting Americans!"- Stormtrooper.
#86180

Re: Hafthohlladung

I have a suggestion about the Hafthohlladung. Maybe it can be like a mine. Yes, this is not the intended purpose. But maybe a soldier could bury it and when a vehicle comes it sticks to the hull and then boom. It could act as an AT mine, like the PE AT mine only maybe alittle differnet like muni cost or damage. And the PE AT mine is doctrinal while the Hafthohlladung would be able to be used by regular infantry as earlier proposed. A high muni cost would also reduce the chance of "spamming" it.

And I think the sherman is so tough due to balance :P
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