idears

Were there any military shotguns the Russians used at this time?

I talked about non convention weapon. They had lots of hunters I guess.

No, WW2's Soviet Army never used Shotguns, not even Double Barreled. They would be found during Booty Raids and shipped of home as souvenirs, never used as weapons of war. They had PPSh-41s and PPS-43s, they really didn't need shotguns. Plus, Russian hunters preferred to use Rifles, not shotguns, so there would be very little, if any, proper ammunition for shotguns.

Americans, Brits, and Germans (with their M30 Lufftwaffe drilling survival weapon) used shotguns as actual tools of war in any large quantity.

...What exactly are you trying to say with that piece of art? ???

Solder is handling some thing like shotgun, I think

Not sure what you are showing us, but the weapons the infantry man is holding is a Mosin-Nagant, I'm not sure what model that is but it looks like either the M38 Carbine variant, or the M1891/30 standard Soviet Mosin model, can't tell because I cannot see the barrel length, nor the bayonet style.

Yeah, looks like a rifle to me...

This one is sure sawed off rifle  :P

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and this

Last edited June 27, 2011 at 2:13 AM by CrimsonDragoon

Looks like an SVT/G43 with 2 PPShs to me in that first picture...

CrimsonDragoon wrote:
Solder is handling some thing like shotgun, I think

That is a Mosin-Nagant Rifle.

HyperSniper999 wrote:

CrimsonDragoon wrote:
Solder is handling some thing like shotgun, I think

That is a Mosin-Nagant Rifle.

That was already stated earlier.

Anyway, Dennis is correct it looks to be either an SVT-40 or G/K43. My bet is that its an SVT.

So are shotguns out for now still?

Unless we can give Trench Guns to the RMC.

Maybe with a Marine Corp. Engineer squad reward unit or something.

Soviet didn't use shotguns, not even Partisans afaik, they had more than enough rifles, smg's and captured Germans stuff to keep them happy til the end of the war. In close quarters, they were more likely to use bayonets and/or fists.

That picture on the last pages, the guys are holding a G43, MP40 and PPSH.

What about adding a reward fraction similar to RMC to the US?? This could contain Shotguns for engineers or rifles and some improved tanks in contration for weaker infantry (Improved costs and worse capping ratios)

...Why? The Royal Marine Corps exists because vanilla Brits are total bullshit. The Americans aren't perfect, no, but they hardly require a reward army...

In my opinion, a double-barreled shotgun would work badly. in my opinion would Browning Auto-5, Winchester Model 1912, Winchester Model 1897 and especially Ithaca 37in  all ways work better because in my view they were all used during the second world war, perhaps with the exception of Ithaca 37, plus they all had major magazines.

should I change the title idears to shotgun? ???

Last edited June 27, 2011 at 5:53 PM by mads

Why screw with balance like that? Look what happened with Opposing Fronts. So many novelty units; it's a bitch to balance.

if you make a shotgun squad as a replacement unit it wont fuck up the balance. The new unit will also have strengths and weaknesses as the old one just in a different way.
if you replacing Paratroopers squad, with a new Paratroopers squad with shotguns then you will have a squad that is good against soldiers, but poor against tanks as an example. these soldiers should not be any better at all, just as good as those they replace just for something else. :)

Balance for reward units matters just as much as for any other unit. Paratroopers aren't supposed to be very good vs infantry.

...So what are they supposed to be good at? Without Recoilless Rifles, they're really not very good at killing anything, in my experience...

Just as an Idea in case you guys decide you are lookin for an optional replacement reward infantry unit, What about Seabees? I got the idea when i read Diablo's post about Marine Engineers. Shotguns upgrade and everything, could build special defenses or something.....you get the idea.

Paratroopers are not very good at one particular thing, they are reasonable for everything. they can destroy bunkers kill tanks throwing grenades and stuff. Paratroopers in my opinion a kind All purpose squad.
for I would like to see a fast squad with shotguns that are very good close. they must cope with different tasks but they are mainly used to kill soldiers in close combat. they are weak at long distances and bad against vehicles. but just as Paratroopers they must cope with all tasks to a certain degree.

^^+1

paras can do it all well, but not outstanding. they're the best suited to mobile in close warfare. their carbines are better than m1 garands on the move and in close range, and airborne armor protects better while moving too and they can reinforce wherever.

if you dont get recoiless rifles than they can reasonably be used as front line troops, reinforcing on the go and grenades help them shine here, and before long will be vetted. satchels close the chapter on med bunker cheese, or fire up and destroy their base buildings

shotgun squads should be a small very quick squad who fights better and better the more pressure they get.
they shall eat the soldiers, but also could throw grenades Throw Sticky Bombs, have a reload specialty and have a the radio operator.

the radio operator can call for help from all other shotgun squads. This means that all other shotgun squads will make attack-move to the squad who called for help.

when using the "reload" specialty, all shotguns will reload and therefore they are better prepared to kill the next squad they see. it takes time to reload a shotgun when you have to put every round in individually.

when they throw the grenades they throw something like 4 this specialty is called "Clear building." since it can only be used on buildings, it will kill everything or almost everything in the building.

"Throw Sticky Bombs" is just an ordinary Sticky Bomb.

this one squad will be weak against vehicles because they can only throw Throw Sticky Bombs but they'll be good to fight in urban environments. they are thrown out by plane but must return to the base to get new soldiers. they are bad at long distance but they are fast and can therefore run near the enemy and fight where they are best. Since a shotgun certainly is not good to kill people in buildings they can therefore, throw a handful of grenades in to the building.

now they can a bit of everything, but this are mainly designed to kill people at close range. a cool device to have to circles around individually and annoy the enemy where it hurts, and if the pressure becoming too big for even the guys this, they can call for backup for example if they encounter a Stug IV.

Nah, the Teapot idea was better. ;D

Personally, I am very fond of the teapot idea.

I also have always liked the idea of a shotgun in CoH. I have pitched several similar ideas to the other EF devs and discussed with our historian. We couldn't find a way to make them awesome but still not overpowered. Making it a one-shot ability like the Stuart Canister Shot would mean it is used too little, but making it fire constantly without much damage makes you think "Well what's the point?"

I am determined to get a good idea for it one day though!

Last edited June 27, 2011 at 10:54 PM by WartyX

You could try a Sniper-like unit - It camouflages, sneaks in close, and blows people away in 1 shot! ...Yeah, it would indeed be pretty hard to balance them....

Shotgun is short ranged... so doesn't that mean you have to close in order to use it? You could maybe make it an ability which allows the unit to switch to the shotgun for a period of time then afterwards switch back to its default weapon. Personally I think the Shotgun would be a good choice for rangers but is it worth having over the thompson?

Well SMGs are alot better up close but they still fire them from a distance, I would guess that shotguns would still be fired from a distance but it wouldnt be as effective like smgs. I could see the rangers using shotguns that would be interesting.

Personally I've always wondered how a Trench Gun would work in CoH. I felt it'd be a cool thing to have, but was never sure what unit would get them, seeing as everything is already pretty solid.

As for balancing them, why don't you make the Trench Gun totally useless at Long, moderately useless at Medium, and utter rape at Close. It'll have a 5 or 6 round magazine, fire roughly one round a second, and have a 4 or 5 second reload time.

I thought this verdict was already decided..............  :-X

Ja. It would be nice, but i seriously doubt it will happen. ;)

The THompson submachine gun was designed specifically as a trench gun. IE to clear out a trench. It fires a .45 caliber bullet at 10-20 rps capable of emptying a 30 round stick clip in 1.5 to 3.0 seconds; a 50 round drum clip in 2.5 to 5 seconds. Its effective range is 160 ft. at point blank range it will enter the human body at about .5" diameter, (all little larger I am told, but I don't know why). If it doesn't fragment or tumble it will leave an exit wound at 3.5 to 4.0 inch diameter size. It is represented in vCoH.

A shot gun is capable of firing 2-3 .38 caliber buckshot at considerable lower exit velocity and rate of fire. A load of salt hurts like hell. If you wish to judge the effectiveness of a shotgun in action safely I suggest you attend a local turkey shoot. They are fun.

I recognize the cool factor but really this thread is going around in circles.

Cranialwizard wrote:
I thought this verdict was already decided..............  :-X

Was it? My apologies then, I guess I missed it.

Yeah, it would be nice to have shotguns in Company Of Heroes, but there just doesn't seem to be a place for them. :(

I always thought shotguns would be like the Stuart Shotgun Shells, but smaller.

And with far less chance involved. ;) ::)

Replying to the first page of posts;

The M1897 trenchgun was actually the less popular of two combat shotguns used by U.S. forces during both the first and second world wars. The M1897 was primarily used by the marines and Army Corp of Engineers specifically, whilst the other (name escapes me) was favored by the Army. Shotguns were largely overlooked in favor of submachine guns, though in special assault situations (usually in urban settings or trench clearing, hence the name 'trenchgun') the M1897 in particular was praised for its ease of use and devastating effect.

Europe in Ruins mod (which ,by the way @ the devs, might be interested in the use of some of your models and coding, including the ability to mount troops on tanks) has initiated a unit named 'Assault Engineers' for the US Armored company. They rape face. Even KCH get the crap blown out of them; the shotties resemble flamers in their ability to retain accuracy on the move and high damage output. They only fire when stationary, though. IMO, poor idea for EF, it really does mess up the vcoh balance.

^^omg allied units can actually kill axis units and get away with it in this mod and arent nerfed beyond recognition by angry wehr fanboys?!  :o

whats the website

Ok know I think red is having a mental Breakdown.

Do you know, that in 10 post, since your not a balance guy or a donor, you will be a Mr.Spam like meeeeeee!

That should get you to stop posting ;)