[[IP address redacted]] The recent conscript fix

REDcommissar wrote:
... Soviets need more support from the balance team seem like theres a recent love affair with german factions.  ::)

I've had this feeling since ... forever.
Though it's just due to constant nerfs (Katiusha, sharpshooters, etc.), no matter how fair these might prove themselves later on.

Last edited April 24, 2011 at 7:57 PM by IJoe

REDcommissar wrote:
Is this HP NERF dropping conscripts below 300HP?  ::)

interesting to see how this plays out. Soviets need more support from the balance team seem like theres a recent love affair with german factions.  ::)

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried...wait till next patch...

The health nerf is only 2 pts per man

The point isn't to favour one faction over the other. The goal is to get them equal. Invariably its a trial and error but we're not going to make the soviets OP just because its our faction.
Overall given the choice where the desired balance isn't achieved, I'd rather have a slightly UP faction rather than an OP one

Last edited April 24, 2011 at 7:47 PM by Zerstörer

Zerstörer wrote:

REDcommissar wrote:
Is this HP NERF dropping conscripts below 300HP?  ::)

interesting to see how this plays out. Soviets need more support from the balance team seem like theres a recent love affair with german factions.  ::)

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried...wait till next patch...

The health nerf is only 2 pts per man

oh my god, yeah I spelled it out instead of abbreviating it because I AM SO EFFING RELIEVED

thank you for saving my life I almost had a coronary

Zerstörer wrote:

REDcommissar wrote:
Is this HP NERF dropping conscripts below 300HP?  ::)

interesting to see how this plays out. Soviets need more support from the balance team seem like theres a recent love affair with german factions.  ::)

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried...wait till next patch...

The health nerf is only 2 pts per man

So it's 38x8=304, instead of 40x8=320?
OK, I feel that a stroke just passed me by.

I'd like to point out however, something I just realised. that this conscript nerf is a double nerf
even though its only a 16 HP reduction, It stacks heavily in favor of wehr who is having its early and mid game buffed very well. while nerfing soviet early game

Not only are the wehrmacht being buffed in the official and final vcoh patch. they're receiving MG42 price reductions, volksgrenadier reinforce price reductions, and cap speed increase for volks squads.

I hope this double nerf, essentially, will not under power the soviet faction. It has the potential to tip the scales very heavily, with the nerf factor now multiplying exponentially

Last edited April 26, 2011 at 4:03 AM by REDcommissar

We can't balance the Soviets around the theoretical-at-this-point future patch. We have to balance for now and if something gets imbalanced, fix it again. We have no idea how substantial an effect the Wehr early buffs will be for the faction without seeing it ingame against Soviets.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
We can't balance the Soviets around the theoretical-at-this-point future patch. We have to balance for now and if something gets imbalanced, fix it again. We have no idea how substantial an effect the Wehr early buffs will be for the faction without seeing it ingame against Soviets.

Well the wehr balance changes to vcoh arent theoretical, they're final. No more are being made, none will be removed. they're just fixing bugs now before the release

It's still a double nerf, I'm pointing out that i hope the balance team has the foresight and wisdom to understand the buffs that are already being given to wehr

There's still an uproar in the vcoh community about the big early-mid game buffs wehr is receiving

I'll say it again, it's impossible to balance against future changes that can't be tested against Soviets as yet. People are in an uproar over several small things which have an extremely minor effect in actuality. The most substantial buff is the volk capping speed increase in skirmish phase. Their reinforcement cost and upfront cost of MG42s are small changes. Just like you yourself are angry over the series of nerfs Soviets are receiving even though they're only very slight at this point (except for major things like SS teams etc.).

How's this conscript health reduction gonna show on penal troops? - They consist of 7 "conscripts" + the "Commissar". I don't think, it's such a good idea to reduce their health. In fact, this idea is simply of criminal nature, IMO.
So, if you want to reduce the health of the conscript squad in particular, you would have to create a separate epbs entry for that "conscript_with_reduced_health". Otherwise this "fix" will hurt two squads at once, and there never seemed to be any problem with shtrafnye troops.
This is what I call "crawling nerf"

IJoe wrote:
How's this conscript health reduction gonna show on penal troops? - They consist of 7 "conscripts" + the "Commissar". I don't think, it's such a good idea to reduce their health. In fact, this idea is simply of criminal nature, IMO.
So, if you want to reduce the health of the conscript squad in particular, you would have to create a separate epbs entry for that "conscript_with_reduced_health". Otherwise this "fix" will hurt two squads at once, and there never seemed to be any problem with shtrafnye troops.
This is what I call "crawling nerf"

Conscripts and Shtrafnie already use two different types of conscripts IIRC.

blackbishop wrote:

IJoe wrote:
How's this conscript health reduction gonna show on penal troops? - They consist of 7 "conscripts" + the "Commissar". I don't think, it's such a good idea to reduce their health. In fact, this idea is simply of criminal nature, IMO.
So, if you want to reduce the health of the conscript squad in particular, you would have to create a separate epbs entry for that "conscript_with_reduced_health". Otherwise this "fix" will hurt two squads at once, and there never seemed to be any problem with shtrafnye troops.
This is what I call "crawling nerf"

Conscripts and Shtrafnie already use two different types of conscripts IIRC.

Hmm... Ok then.
But, I'm watching you  ;)

GodlikeDennis wrote:
I'll say it again, it's impossible to balance against future changes that can't be tested against Soviets as yet. People are in an uproar over several small things which have an extremely minor effect in actuality. The most substantial buff is the volk capping speed increase in skirmish phase. Their reinforcement cost and upfront cost of MG42s are small changes. Just like you yourself are angry over the series of nerfs Soviets are receiving even though they're only very slight at this point (except for major things like SS teams etc.).

I'm not angry dennis I dont want you to believe i am ever angry at anyone or anything I love this mod

I'm just concerned, But I trust you guys and know you all have a very good understanding of everything COH :)

whats happening with 'SS'  teams?

Last edited April 26, 2011 at 6:16 PM by REDcommissar

I'd say the biggest change is not the volk capping speed but the reduction of the MG42 redeployment speed which makes flanking a bit more difficult against good.

Make no mistake the Volk changes are significant and allow for more extended Tier1. Vetted MP40 volks will be the bane of many a Soviet player. But I suspect it will just force a faster transition to Strelky. The improved DP28 should also help a bit.
To be fair, atm soviets do have the upper hand in the opening stages of the game so the WH buffs should equal it rather than tip the balance over

I think conscripts really don't need a health nerf.
Soviets much rather need a damper on their capping speed. Just reduce it for conscripts to volks level. This should fix alot of problems.

dArCReAvEr wrote:
I think conscripts really don't need a health nerf.
Soviets much rather need a damper on their capping speed. Just reduce it for conscripts to volks level. This should fix alot of problems.

Then raise ingenery capping and buiding rate to match pios, right?

I'm happy with all the changes intended...
very glad the conscripts suppression value is going away.  played a game where I thought my enemy's volks squad got suppressed by his own mg, because it started crawling around on its belly.  apparently that was conscripts. 

I mentioned that I thought the detection range of the command squad was too large, and that it makes using snipers really tricky.  It may not be the sight range that is the biggest problem, but the random critical chance on the command squad that also affects snipers at medium/long range. 

Played a game against my friend where I anticipated movement up the map by maybe an mg.  instead I encountered a sniper.  a Single shot from my squad killed that sniper at long range. 

That was the most obvious example, but when I am wehr, I seem to watch my full health snipers die at that range in the blink of an eye, and i'm wondering if it is that critical chance that is causing this.  is there a way to make snipers less vulnerable to that?

Joshua9 wrote:
Played a game against my friend where I anticipated movement up the map by maybe an mg.  instead I encountered a sniper.  a Single shot from my squad killed that sniper at long range. 

That was the most obvious example, but when I am wehr, I seem to watch my full health snipers die at that range in the blink of an eye, and i'm wondering if it is that critical chance that is causing this.  is there a way to make snipers less vulnerable to that?

Well... Snipers are one man, as even the US sniper says... one shot, one kill. Keep snipers in cover (shrugs) thats the only real way of improving its survival...

Last edited May 9, 2011 at 7:43 AM by Paladin88

Joshua9 wrote:

I'm happy with all the changes intended...
very glad the conscripts suppression value is going away.  played a game where I thought my enemy's volks squad got suppressed by his own mg, because it started crawling around on its belly.  apparently that was conscripts. 

I mentioned that I thought the detection range of the command squad was too large, and that it makes using snipers really tricky.  It may not be the sight range that is the biggest problem, but the random critical chance on the command squad that also affects snipers at medium/long range. 

Played a game against my friend where I anticipated movement up the map by maybe an mg.  instead I encountered a sniper.  a Single shot from my squad killed that sniper at long range. 

That was the most obvious example, but when I am wehr, I seem to watch my full health snipers die at that range in the blink of an eye, and i'm wondering if it is that critical chance that is causing this.  is there a way to make snipers less vulnerable to that?

do u have the replay?

I don't have the replay, and should definitely have saved it.

you would know though, from the numbers whether or not this is possible though?

It's possible but certainly not probable. Not really a balance concern.