[[IP address redacted]] The recent conscript fix

While I appreciate the sensible conscript change that prevented  weaponless russian units from rushing forward when attacking, at least conceptually,

I've found that it has once again altered the balance that had finally matured in the matches me and my friend have been playing, with the only real difficulties being

*badass tank-hunters(3 of these base-line anti-tank,  units-vetted can still own a king tiger through front armor by the way, which I find somewhat disturbing-but right now I'm just referring to their infantry effectiveness which was slightly reduced),

T-90 armor(thankfully reduced to a reasonable level)

and su-85's/100's which seem to have too much splash damage...either that or are just too fast(i'd be happy if they were slower to accelerate, making it less of a given that they wil escape from harm,as well as from units attempting to flank)

surprisingly though, even given the changes to snipers and t-90's and tank hunters, that conscript change has outweighed them all.

Pre-patch I was capable of applying pressure, being the agressor early..

post patch, 2 volks vs 2 224 cost conscript squads, may be a win, but a painful one, especially if I am the one forced to engage.  These guys just chew units up when they are set, and with the help of ingenery, which add a nice ammount of damage to their attacks, Pe like staggered tactics are very effective at holding points, and bleeding off mp.

The problem with not engaging, with not pushing, is that it is a given now that my friend can almost immediately build an outpost on a medium fuel early with little consequence, and a depletion to his force that doesn't matter siginificantly to his ability to apply pressure to me. 

The world is his oyster.  Early snipers wreak havvoc and as far as I can tell, if he gets an early t-90 out when I have no standing counter to it, it is game over.  the impact is far more severe than an early m-8.  one shrek squad is just an appetizer...volks die so fast thatt hey won't be standing to add any fausts to the equation.  a sigle storm squad won't fare well either. (these are all units that can effectively ward off or at least stagger an m8.) 

So, while both snipers and t-90's were brutal in the previous build, at least then I was able to be up in my enemy's shit...which really took a bite out of the speed at which these units arrived, and their effectiveness when they did.

I'm fine with this more balanced early game between factions, but if it's going to stay that way, it feels like these other units need to be recosted slightly to account for that stronger early map presence.  And rather than in the upgrade, I think that it shold be in the per unit cost.  once these t-090's start lolling off the line, I can sometimes expect to face 3..if I didn't have enough at when that first one hit, the I certainly won't by the time they're all out.

king tiger has 2000 hit points if your losing a king tiger to 3 tank hunters squads your using the king tiger wrong. A lot of the less skilled players seem to think the king tiger should beat any and everything when in reality nothing in this game does that.
remember to keep pios around to repair your KT as well, even 2-3 vet2 pio squads would have dispatched  the tank hunter squads and sent them packing

Keep king tiger supported or its a sitting duck, if you expect it to prospper unsupported you dont understand the mechanics of this game.

su-85 speed is fine, its supposed to be faster than other tanks, because its not a tank its a tank destroyer. which were designed to be faster than tanks so they could pursue and out maneuvre them, and destroy them.

Would you mind sharing your ladder rank with us so we can get a better feel of your overall understanding of the game?  :)

check,  not using it right....

of that I have no doubt, but would you say that its even possible for 3 ranger squads to take out a kt?(it wasn't all I had originally by the way, but the ammount of artillery on top of everything else gets pretty funny, so that's what was left in that engagement)  how long do you think it would take for rangers to take it out?  tank hunters are really cheap overall...they don't require the kind of investment grens do to be long term effective...they are more fragile, but they can really dish it out. 

I don't really want to distract too much from my real complaint though, because while I think its kind of crazy that tank-hunters can do this it isn't particularly related to my balance complaint.

as to my level, sure...

I play pretty unconventionally, and not particularly inspired at that, so my ranking is not superb...i've bounced between 10 and 11, trying to get ridiculous things like 1 engie sniper starts to work against pe, and forward hq starts against wehr(actually those brought me all the way back down to like 8 )

point is, my friend is pretty much in the same boat.  across the board we've pretty much been able to keep a nice ebb and flow...and as I said, we've been able to extend that to eastern front, after I made some much needed adjustements in play.

given that we've been playing this for a while, and given that we are both at equal skill levels, and given that while he is infinitely better than me with wehr(since I rarely play it, except for against russia) and my rudimentary russia does such a number on him as well)

it very well may be that these factions are balanecd, but in terms of skill level, it must be infinitely easier to play russia than Wehrmacht, at least at the level we are playing at. 

My contention is that this issue has really arisen from the conscript change, because I see enemy snipers or t-90's hitting the field faster now, not slower, because the russian player can do more with less than he could before.


as to the su-85's, i'm strictly speaking about balance.  These beasts have an achiles heal that is their absolute rear armor, which I find easy to exploit with upgunned pumas, but not particularly helpful for my grens who get eaten up overly effectively when a few of these are in a line shooting..  Like I said, I would take the acceleration change...i'd probably just prefer the splash damage nerf.

oh, I also find the detection range on the command squad to be really obnoxious for dispatching snipers, often with just random fire as soon as the sniper is spotted.  I understand that this is the only detection unit that russia seems to have(if there's another i'm not sure what it is ), but the range seems really extreme for a unit that is a staple for every rush.  I would prefer it be in line with recon squads, or at least somewhere inbetween.  of course, if that's where it already is please excuse the poor observation in the midst of my button mashing and hair pulling

Last edited April 17, 2011 at 7:21 AM by Joshua9

In all actuality Wehr is the easiest faction to play. Given their core mechanics. They dont need to rush or be aggressive and they dont need to actually kill anything to get vet. very novice friendly. Not to mention all of their units are the most survivable in the game.

Soviets have to be one of the hardest factions to use, next to the PE.

One more thing, 2 volks squads should always beat 2 conscript squads just focus fire the first squad closest to you on the charge :) goodluck comrade

would absolutely love to see some replays of you playing as wehr against russia so that I could pick up some tips

I have a few replays on gamereplays.com just search chris0316
there mostly american though so i doubt that will help. I played american before my defection to the Communist liberators ;D

anyway I'd be glad to play a friendly game online with u if u want. I'll be wehr and U can be Soviets? and save the replay and watch

I should actually set you up to play my friend.  he's the one playing russia more frequently.  I've only played it about 4 times since the patch.  I expect you to beat him, but I'd get far less out of you beating me.  I currently wouldn't be near efficient enough with them to be scary.


I'd still be up for a game, though not tonight..barely hanging on.  my game name is josh9

Sounds good Comrade, Im adding you now look for me on your friends list  :)

1) Trying to counter a tank hunter like the SU with a puma, is like trying to counter an M10 with a puma. Puma at best will do a little bit of damage before it goes down.
The SU have piss poor health meaning paks and shrecks can very easily shred them. 3 shots with either one. Even fausts are a big issue because of their few hitpoints

Conscripts can countered by MGs and even bikes/swim. MP40 volks and/or flamer does a number on them. In fact a flamer is a must, just like a flamer is a must for US troops facing WH/PE

Theoretically, puma up-gunned, should be able to circle-strafe a single SU, but practically few would let that to happen.

T90s have barely any AoE. Their gun is identical to a PE AC except with a longer burst duration and shorter reload. I actually agree that they're a little too good. Their damage should be reduced slightly.

SU-85 splash is being taken away next patch.

I cannot stress how important MP40s are against conscripts. I personally forgo flamers (unless he really likse buildings) and go for as many MP40s as possible. As for the first few engagements, remember to focus fire with your volks on the most vulnerable conscript squad. MG should be used to remove the CS from the fight while your superior volks demolish his conscripts.

Last edited April 17, 2011 at 12:58 PM by GodlikeDennis

I already stopped using t-90, except for some rare occasions of pio spam. That signifies, how relatively ineffective the thing has become. Why nerf it further? For what reasons? It's already a whole lot worse than puma.

To be fair T90 damage output is currently higher than a vet3 puma, more hit points and less speed ,so yeah it is a bit too good and certainly not inferior to the Puma.
We're reducing the damage and increasing the Acc. Incremental so it punishes blobs a bit more

T90 really shines when you get it to vet2/3

Last edited April 17, 2011 at 12:24 PM by Zerstörer

While the sum of all possible parameter of T-90 can be greater than that of puma, the actual battle performance is not math only  ;D T-90 can never dream of one-shot killing a trooper, unless he's already almost dead.
The accuracy increase, even with some damage nerf, might prove beneficial and quite in place, since low accuracy, IMO, was massively due to the OP great suppression provided, now gone.

I think the main problem is:

Conscripts fight just as well with 8 guys as with 4 people, because only 4 people got a gun.

while when a Volks/pg squad looses a man the combat efficiency drops by 20% / 33%.

And since now with the conscript change the non-weapon conscripts die slower since they also stay in cover. Volks / pgs are worse at fighting them, resulting in conscripts being overall stronger than before.

I'd recommend either slower capping (best choice imo) or a tweak to conscript health. But considering STGs and mp40s shread conscripts the last option is not a good idea.

On the t90:

I've noticed that Panzerfausts (the ability from Volks) does really low damage to those kind of tanks. It looks like you need 4 fausts to kill it while most other light vehicles (stuart, m8) require 2-3 fausts.

Maybe its a good idea to investigate how buffing the panzerfaust would affect the "shock value" of the t90.

The facts are: conscript became stronger than before, and, IMO, it was meant to be that way since the beginning, but was simply bugged.
                    nobody is going to buff panzerfaust, because these are vanilla.

Conscripts are still inferior to the Volks and were just bugged previously. Listen to the advice given and alter your play style to include MP40 volks/flamers.

Faust alone is not a weapon to deal with M8s/T90/70. It never has been. There will be no buffing cause it doesn't need it. There are shrecks and Paks for that. Not to mention all of T3 which you can have at the same time as T70/90 appear

I still think conscripts should capture slowlier.

dArCReAvEr wrote:
I still think conscripts should capture slowlier.

So you do...

I have found flamers to go down much faster to russians than I experience from americans, or wehrmacht when using american flamers.  that concentrated long range punch those rifles have makes short work of them on the way in, so while I know how fast they will spread like wild-fire through a squad of conscripts(by the way this isn't the case with conscripts in biuldings for some reason-it's not very fast at all) I'm finding it to be an expensive gamble to upgrade with flames. 

sure mp40's change the tide of battle.  By then, I should already be gearing up for t-2, because by then if I have the notion to jump to t-3, I've just blown the game, because the other player will have certainly(with ease) oped a fuel point, and could be possibly on his way to a fast t-90(and most of the time, given the field dynamic, I won't know whether he's done this until too late).  This has been beating me to t-3 every time, because I haven't felt like I've had the luxury to op fuel,  due to the very effective pressure russia can keep up. The problem is after they ramp up(after like the first 3 minutes), they have the harassment/capping prowess that americans use against PE, without the need to hit and run.

As I've already stated though, I feel my early exchanges with russia are pretty even, we both take about half the map, and with mgs, etc.  I can hold my side, for the most part, though I will be on the defensive, and can barely dream of agressing.  That just seems to be translating into a more effective early middle game for russia.

also, I use bikes, and am surprised that they are as effective as you say against conscripts...chock it off to bad micro, but I lose these a lot, and early, which has everythign to do with the long range fire power of the bulk of the russian army as well as the fact that for some reason the command squad can take like a third of its health in a single shot at mid range.

I do not have this problem with bikes against americans, who thankfully have to get closer before they get really effective.

I do look forward to the su-85 change, and appreciate that you believe the damage of the t-90 should be toned down.  Both of those things will help.

A lone bike is a dead bike - you need to have at least two of them (three would do better) at a time in one place, which, taking their cost and build time into account, is not much of a burden. Pios are to support them only (repair), and to engage only when the enemy gets suppressed.
Command squad is a pain. I often find myself almost helpless against it. The relieving thing is that there can be only one at a time.  :) So it's really a situational thing. It can be beaten, but it's always a challenge to me.

IJoe wrote:
I already stopped using t-90, except for some rare occasions of pio spam. That signifies, how relatively ineffective the thing has become. Why nerf it further? For what reasons? It's already a whole lot worse than puma.

I never used it to begin with, I've got bigger fish to fry  ;D
not against wehrmacht anyway, just never its a no-no.



So let me get this right SU-100 upgrade is being removed?

is there some plan to buff SU-85 since theres not the option to make it more effective and scale better as the big bad axis tanks hit the field?

SU-85 is already good against tanks even if the upgrade isn't present. IMO the upgrade was redundant. Of course, the stats of the tank will be slightly tweaked to reflect this change, but i don't think will be equal or better than SU-100... but this topic isn't for SU-85/100, right?

Su-85/100 is going to be changed? Oh my dear.... so what will happen with SU-100? I think we need a new topic for this.

No it is not Comrade, but thank you for taking the time to clarify this and deal with me. I had a brain aneurysm after I heard that, thats all :)

One last thing Im glad the dev team has the foresight to see with removal of su-100 the upgrade stats will need to be tweaked to fill the void of loss of potency of su-100


^^Ceph u want to start it or i will?


OT: heres my build in a standard resource game and im expecting conscripts lots of them fast. Volks>volks>MG>MG>medic bunker>volks
GG
good micro and placement of MG is key, dont just use one MG use two to cover the front and to voer your flank because and smart Soviet will be charging from a few directions GL komeraden

I'm apologize if my post offended you, that wasn't my intention... sometimes i post emoticons too to avoid being too serious and looks like i forgot to put them (it was mealtime so i wrote that rushed XD).

REDcommissar wrote:
conscripts lots of them fast. Volks>volks>MG>MG>medic bunker>volks

This actually reminded me of another bit of advice. An extended T1 is both very possible and very useful against Russians. You don't need to rush for Paks as early, since Soviet vehicles arrive roughly the same time as wehr T3. Unless you desperately need a mortar or halftrack you are actually better off getting 5 or even six T1 units instead of the standard 4. Skirmish phase is still required for MP40s of course, but this works well if you prefer flamers to MP40s.

Though I need some more time to investigate this, but I really think PE vs. Soviet balance is determined by the huge soviet capping advantage in combo with the command squad -

the command squad is basically a vanilla tommie squad with normal movement. To fight a tommie you need 1 PG  + 1 PG with G43. Now brits cant capture fast, so its easy to fight them head-on.

But now soviet: They have a tough command squad AND fast capping conscripts which seem to deal quite high amounts of damage to pgs on close range. Oh, and that obligatory ingenery squad, roaming the remote map areas to cap low ammo/fuel points.

So the PE is forced to get early HT's which results in huge fuel losses (low income to few sectors) -> they loose the tech race.

Just watch the replay. That was like my first game against a PE player, still I easily dominated & dictated all the game.

The pgs do not stand any chance against my 3 conscripts + the command squad. And due to this I got superior map control and a t-90 by the time he got t3.

Last edited April 19, 2011 at 4:05 PM by dArCReAvEr

He wasn't the best player, duel capping squads under fire, cqc with G43, failing to retreat, some dodgy manoeuvring with the HT. After watching 2v3 (2xPE vs 2xSov 1xBrit) Sublime replay I'm more than convinced that the PE can handle the Soviets no problem when played correctly.

Early game, Pgrens used to rape conscripts hard, but now its a close battle, with a moderate advantage tilting towards Soviets.  I think Soviet early game surely got stronger, but as long as their abusive mid game stuff is nerfed hard, I certainly have no qualms about it.  I think its neat that conscripts can pick up their dead comrade's guns now.  Now they can reliably flank MG42s (before this, a half health conscript squad that flanked an MG42 was usually not enough to threaten it), which promotes better play, instead of just waiting on the command squad's charge ability and just blindly mobbing in.

Last edited April 19, 2011 at 8:58 PM by Chancellor

BurroDiablo wrote:
He wasn't the best player, duel capping squads under fire, cqc with G43, failing to retreat, some dodgy manoeuvring with the HT. After watching 2v3 (2xPE vs 2xSov 1xBrit) Sublime replay I'm more than convinced that the PE can handle the Soviets no problem when played correctly.

True, that guy really was not a 12azor, but still, he had ~ 30 ranked matches, with actually decent stats. It's not really reasonable that I could bash him that hard, especially when I'm playing against a PE player first time with Soviets...

Watched first 10 minutes of the 2v3 game -

1.) It was a team game, so the game is way more focused on lategame, where PE shines due to various inf upgrades and strong veterancy.

2.) the PE players were clearly a LOT better than the soviets, that's why they won the match. I seriously doubt they would've won that match if the enemy players would've known what they were doing.

3.) You can't really compare team gameplay to 1vs1 situations.

Like I said, I'm not completely sure about my point and need some further investigation regarding this topic. But apparently, there seems to be a problem.

However, if you're interested we can play some games tomorrow and investigate :)

Last edited April 19, 2011 at 9:26 PM by dArCReAvEr

I find the problem of PE vs Russians to be based around the current Soviet OP units: T90, SU85, ss team, kat. Apart from that it's a fairly even game. PGs stand up fine against Russian infantry unless the CS gets some lucky PG instant kills. G43s are a bad upgrade, i never get them.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
I find the problem of PE vs Russians to be based around the current Soviet OP units: T90, SU85, ss team, kat. Apart from that it's a fairly even game. PGs stand up fine against Russian infantry unless the CS gets some lucky PG instant kills. G43s are a bad upgrade, i never get them.

And I think that the t70, t90 and SU-85 are OP because they come ~ 2-3 minutes too early. Which is IMO a result of soviets being able to capture extremely fast like the USA, combined with the command squad being as tough as a british tommie squad.

Technically its like a british who starts with a vanilla tommie squad and can train cheaper riflemen to capture the map.

Once again I played some PE guy. He used his pgs together earlygame and even used cover, but still had 0 chance against 1 conscript + command squad.

Thereafter I just kept capping everything and got a t90.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
I find the problem of PE vs Russians to be based around the current Soviet OP units: T90, SU85, ss team, kat. Apart from that it's a fairly even game. PGs stand up fine against Russian infantry unless the CS gets some lucky PG instant kills. G43s are a bad upgrade, i never get them.

No offense, but I recall you saying, soviets are OK, but for the snipers. Now you're like listing half the faction, and calling it OP...
I'm getting lost with your witness.

Actually T70's pretty crap, T90 is OP because of it's damage output and SU-85 penetrates near 100% of the time on any tank at any range.

I believe another core issue is that that conscripts had their penetration buffed a couple patches ago in response one of the tourney final matches where IHT spam won the game for the PE player. This was a knee jerk reaction and unnecessary because THs dominate PE light vehicles except the AC and come sooner than even the IHT. At the moment, the basic rifles have too great penetration vs the light vehicles.

I think PGs fight the early Soviet units quite well actually.

IJoe wrote:

GodlikeDennis wrote:
I find the problem of PE vs Russians to be based around the current Soviet OP units: T90, SU85, ss team, kat. Apart from that it's a fairly even game. PGs stand up fine against Russian infantry unless the CS gets some lucky PG instant kills. G43s are a bad upgrade, i never get them.

No offense, but I recall you saying, soviets are OK, but for the snipers. Now you're like listing half the faction, and calling it OP...
I'm getting lost with your witness.

Opinions change as you play more games. T90 has too much damage output, SU-85 penetrates everything all the time and kat comes slightly too early but is statistically fine (perhaps does too much damage to tanks but this needs more testing and is rarely an issue anyway). None of these are issues though because all of them are being addressed next patch.

Last edited April 21, 2011 at 1:50 PM by GodlikeDennis

GodlikeDennis wrote:
I believe another core issue is that that conscripts had their penetration buffed a couple patches ago in response one of the tourney final matches where IHT spam won the game for the PE player. This was a knee jerk reaction and unnecessary because THs dominate PE light vehicles except the AC and come sooner than even the IHT. At the moment, the basic rifles have too great penetration vs the light vehicles.

That's not quite the whole story to be fair.

The pen of the rifles was originally the same as that of all the other rifles, but at the time(cough..1.00) you had about 6-8 conscript squads+ 2 engies+ command squad running around in the firs 4-5 mins, meaning any salvo from that many troops insta killed a PE vehicle. That's when we nerfed the guns hard.

Now that we've dealt with the conscript spam, we've simply amended it back to what it should be, which is to match M1 rifle pen vs light vehicles.

Given that a conscript squad has 4xD10 riles while a US squad has 6xD10 and by the time an AC/halftrack hits the field there are usually 4 riflemen and 1 Command squad+ 3-4Conscripts, the potential damage output is the bigger for the US, but adding the possible 2 squads of engies on each side and it all balances out.

PE light vehicles have alot more room and are more forgiving when fighting soviets, as there are no BARs or stickies

Therefor you have AT-guns or Tank Hunters alot earlier.
But I still say: reduce either command squad battle effectiveness or lower the capping speed for command squad and ingenery OR for conscripts.

I really think this will fix a lot of problems.

dArCReAvEr wrote:
Therefor you have AT-guns or Tank Hunters alot earlier.
But I still say: reduce either command squad battle effectiveness or lower the capping speed for command squad and ingenery OR for conscripts.

I really think this will fix a lot of problems.

That's getting into the 'if I get this unit' argument...
You won't have the resources for those units at that stage and you're more likely to get them at a stage where Bars/stickies/airborne/rangers allow the US player to fend off the PE vehicles as much as an AT squad might fend them off. Early AT gun is a bad choice vs PE cause you can't guard it with sticky armed riflemen and you have no BARs

Yep. AT gun and TH are two separate upgrades, and TH also perform rather poorly without yet another upgrade.

Riflemen have to get up close to do real damage to the PE vehicles though. Conscripts, being more accurate at range, can nail a vehicle from anywhere. From just playing games, I'm noticing very often that 3 squads of conscripts will obliterate an AC or IHT from long range, even while I'm kiting at max range.

I'm not asking that they be invulnerable, just that their long range penetration be revised. Having a lone AT gun is more effective against PE than say Pumas because nobody will want to run into an infantry blob with ACs just to kill it because they are still vulnerable compared to a puma.

is that true Conscripts are more accurate long range compared to  riflemen?  :o I'm skeptical

good thing to know though if its true.

Actually riflemen are more accurate. What I should have said are conscripts have a greater damage output at long range because riflemen have a very long cooldown. Conscripts have bolt action rifles like volks which fire at a pretty similar rate across all distance. Riflemen as we all know are good up close because they have great close range cooldown modifiers.

heh well whatta ya know

Im so used to playing Ami I still charge everything with Soviet infantry. and yeah I just looked in corsix conscripts and strelky actually excel at long range

Its interesting that 224 mp conscripts win against unvetted grenadiers which are t2 and cost 300mp.

Option 1a) Either reduce their capping speed or
Option 1b) their damage output or
Option 1c) increase their cost + buildtime

Further proposed fixes:
Option 2) nerf the command squad size to 3 men and increase buildtime
Option 3) Nerf command squad capping speed and increase its buildtime significantly.

At least under current circumstances. We need to see how the beta 2.700 changes alter the Wehr gameplay.

Last edited April 24, 2011 at 4:49 PM by dArCReAvEr

I don't fallow, what the CS has got to do with conscripts.
These latter have disadvantages as well:
1) they never vet,
2) they can't re-crew,
3) they can't be upgraded with any weapons, but molotovs, but this will abolish their production,
4) they have a build limit of up to 5 squads on the field at any given time.

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As for "solutions", of all possible nerfs, if these are to be performed, I would prefer to see conscript squad reduction to four men with rifles.

Last edited April 24, 2011 at 5:01 PM by IJoe

IJoe wrote:
I don't fallow, what the CS has got to do with conscripts.

Simple: Command squad = british tommie squad for 350mp.
Conscripts = US riflemen in terms of strength. But way cheaper and in combo with command squad they dish out alot of damage and can cap large parts of the map quickly.

And that's why soviet tanks arrive too early: it's too easy for soviets to take major parts of the map early on.

Conscripts = US riflemen? False - see my previous post, and there's more to it.
CS is just ONE squad.

If you reduce its size, it will become absolutely useless. Capping speed is moderate, but can be A BIT lower. The punch they deliver is justified by the fact, that THEY ARE JUST ONE SQUAD, they cost rathe much, and their built time is rather long.

All there is about conscripts, is their great penetration against ACs and AVs against PE, but otherwise those just tare soviets apart immediately. That's the way it used to be before the penetration buff.

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That's not to mention, that soviets can't build anything at all, except ingenery, conscripts and ONE command squad at the start. No support, no light armor at all, unlike other factions.

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As for your reference to early soviet armor, it's about tank rush, I guess, because in any other cases it never comes earlier than that of any other faction. Well, tank rush is risky, and counterable.
Besides, it has to do with the cost of opening new building option a lot more than with conscripts or the command squad.

Last edited April 24, 2011 at 5:42 PM by IJoe

On closer review, conscripts will get a minor health nerf and remove that crazy suppression value

Zerstörer wrote:
On closer review, conscripts will get a minor health nerf and remove that crazy suppression value

Health reduction  ???
... and what is considered "minor"?

I donno, but I think the early game will just turn into a slaughter.  :(

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How about just make them 6 men with 3 rifles?

Last edited April 24, 2011 at 6:53 PM by IJoe

dArCReAvEr wrote:
Its interesting that 224 mp conscripts win against unvetted grenadiers which are t2 and cost 300mp.

Do you have a replay?

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Is this HP NERF dropping conscripts below 300HP?  ::)

interesting to see how this plays out. Soviets need more support from the balance team seem like theres a recent love affair with german factions.  ::)

Last edited April 24, 2011 at 7:26 PM by REDcommissar