Ostheer Update 5: Panzer Kampf Kommand

i agree. i think the hull mounted lmg42 is a nerfed infantry lmg42, but you are right, it sucks.

It depends on the tank... Cromwells have a better Hull MG then a firefly because cromwell is AI.

walki is right. stuart mg for example.

Trannyhunterx wrote:
Honestly the Hull mounted MGs on any tank rarley do any significant damage gameplay wise :P. The top MG (IDK what its called) does far more damage like the .50 cals on the US tanks or thr MGs on Axis tanks.

So you are saying the Elefants shoudn't have an MG because it doesn't make any difference? It would be a Ferdinand in that case. Think about it, gameplay stats can be tweaked to find balance. The Elefants MG34 could be more effective than the Panzer III's for the sake of gameplay, right? I honestly do not see an issue here.

stealthattack1 wrote:
walki is right. stuart mg for example.

AC MG is beast

We will see if the elephant needs a mg or not. IMO it doesn´t need one.

It is meant to work like a heavy armoured shorter ranged Nashorn, so you will need to support it in order to protect it from being rushed by AT infantry.

But the AT infantry will try to flank it so a forward mg will be kind of redundant, no?

Rather some support unit that helps you to deal with infantry in general, you could also spare some Landsers or Panzerfüsiliers ;)

The last thing you want to do with an Elefant (roof mg or not) is try to take infantry. The Elefant is a unique heavy AT unit. It has no AI properties and I don't see a reason to add them. It would be like giving the Nashorn an mg. A panzer is different, because it is expected to have some AI qualities.

Noone said that Elefant will have AI capabilities ;)
It will be a hardcounter to enemy tanks, heavier and slower and better armoured than a Jagpanther but with the same main gun.

Killar wrote:
We will see if the elephant needs a mg or not. IMO it doesn´t need one.

For the sake of an Elefant being an Elefant and not a Ferdinand, the model should have an MG... doesn't means it needs to do much damage.

BurroDiablo wrote:

Killar wrote:
We will see if the elephant needs a mg or not. IMO it doesn´t need one.

For the sake of an Elefant being an Elefant and not a Ferdinand, the model should have an MG... doesn't means it needs to do much damage.

Just make it extremely weak like the Coaxials of the Panzer IV or something.

Last edited March 5, 2012 at 8:28 PM by Cranialwizard

wow. didnt even know ostwind had coaxials. gonna have to check that out ;)

stealthattack1 wrote:
wow. didnt even know ostwind had coaxials. gonna have to check that out ;)

I was just using that as an example. They probably don't.

Edited to make more sense.

may i suggest we delete these last three comments to clear up the thread then?

BurroDiablo wrote:

Killar wrote:
We will see if the elephant needs a mg or not. IMO it doesn´t need one.

For the sake of an Elefant being an Elefant and not a Ferdinand, the model should have an MG... doesn't means it needs to do much damage.

Exactly, but I still think it should be a cheap upgrade, kind of representing the lessons learned on the eastern front throughout the years. And how about this, if an enemy infantry unit is right infront of the hull (pretty much touching the Elefant) the MG-34 can suppress it for a few seconds.

Ost_Front_Soldat wrote:

BurroDiablo wrote:

Killar wrote:
We will see if the elephant needs a mg or not. IMO it doesn´t need one.

For the sake of an Elefant being an Elefant and not a Ferdinand, the model should have an MG... doesn't means it needs to do much damage.

Exactly, but I still think it should be a cheap upgrade, kind of representing the lessons learned on the eastern front throughout the years. And how about this, if an enemy infantry unit is right infront of the hull (pretty much touching the Elefant) the MG-34 can suppress it for a few seconds.

It will be like a coaxial, overall very much unimportant.

If you were to start without an MG it would be a Ferdinand, then you want to upgrade to an Elefant?

Too much over thinking.

Cranialwizard wrote:

Ost_Front_Soldat wrote:

BurroDiablo wrote:

Killar wrote:
We will see if the elephant needs a mg or not. IMO it doesn´t need one.

For the sake of an Elefant being an Elefant and not a Ferdinand, the model should have an MG... doesn't means it needs to do much damage.

Exactly, but I still think it should be a cheap upgrade, kind of representing the lessons learned on the eastern front throughout the years. And how about this, if an enemy infantry unit is right infront of the hull (pretty much touching the Elefant) the MG-34 can suppress it for a few seconds.

It will be like a coaxial, overall very much unimportant.

If you were to start without an MG it would be a Ferdinand, then you want to upgrade to an Elefant?

Too much over thinking.

Lol, the vehicle itself was "very much unimportant" to the German war effort but it is cool to use in a game, so why can't we just polish it off with an MG?

We have upgrades in vCoH for a tank commnader, cupola gunner, mortar flail, optics, lots of upgrades that do not help a whole lot. For the sake of balance and a taste of realism, allow the Elefant to marginally defend itself from frontal charges. Give the MG stats that will be notable but not game-breaking.

Last edited March 6, 2012 at 9:21 PM by Ost_Front_Soldat

Ost_Front_Soldat wrote:

Cranialwizard wrote:

Ost_Front_Soldat wrote:

BurroDiablo wrote:

Killar wrote:
We will see if the elephant needs a mg or not. IMO it doesn´t need one.

For the sake of an Elefant being an Elefant and not a Ferdinand, the model should have an MG... doesn't means it needs to do much damage.

Exactly, but I still think it should be a cheap upgrade, kind of representing the lessons learned on the eastern front throughout the years. And how about this, if an enemy infantry unit is right infront of the hull (pretty much touching the Elefant) the MG-34 can suppress it for a few seconds.

It will be like a coaxial, overall very much unimportant.

If you were to start without an MG it would be a Ferdinand, then you want to upgrade to an Elefant?

Too much over thinking.

We have upgrades in vCoH for a tank commnader, cupola gunner, mortar flail, optics, lots of upgrades that do not help a whole lot. For the sake of balance and a taste of realism, allow the Elefant to marginally defend itself from frontal charges. Give the MG stats that will be notable but not game-breaking.

Probably not going to happen, and probably not going to be an upgrade. Else it's an improvised Ferdinand, and the only MGs that I see that are of any use on Vehicles is MG42s manned by a gunner on the outside on Panthers, Tigers, KT, and .50 cals on Stags and Greyhound and the Hellcat.

For the sake of balance those MGs are quite useless. If you want to defend from a frontal change, use other supporting units, like an actual MG.

Cranialwizard wrote:

Ost_Front_Soldat wrote:

Cranialwizard wrote:

Ost_Front_Soldat wrote:

BurroDiablo wrote:

Killar wrote:
We will see if the elephant needs a mg or not. IMO it doesn´t need one.

For the sake of an Elefant being an Elefant and not a Ferdinand, the model should have an MG... doesn't means it needs to do much damage.

Exactly, but I still think it should be a cheap upgrade, kind of representing the lessons learned on the eastern front throughout the years. And how about this, if an enemy infantry unit is right infront of the hull (pretty much touching the Elefant) the MG-34 can suppress it for a few seconds.

It will be like a coaxial, overall very much unimportant.

If you were to start without an MG it would be a Ferdinand, then you want to upgrade to an Elefant?

Too much over thinking.

We have upgrades in vCoH for a tank commnader, cupola gunner, mortar flail, optics, lots of upgrades that do not help a whole lot. For the sake of balance and a taste of realism, allow the Elefant to marginally defend itself from frontal charges. Give the MG stats that will be notable but not game-breaking.

Probably not going to happen, and probably not going to be an upgrade. Else it's an improvised Ferdinand, and the only MGs that I see that are of any use on Vehicles is MG42s manned by a gunner on the outside on Panthers, Tigers, KT, and .50 cals on Stags and Greyhound and the Hellcat.

For the sake of balance those MGs are quite useless. If you want to defend from a frontal change, use other supporting units, like an actual MG.

You forgot Panzer IV(PE have an MG upgrade) and these do very little damage and suppression...yet, they are in the game. You still have to support your Hellcat even if it gets an MG gunner so why is this any different?

Because it's a dedicated AI tank. It's supposed to have upgrades like that.

We're off topic.

Last edited March 6, 2012 at 9:48 PM by blackbishop

Cranialwizard wrote:
Because it's a dedicated AI tank. It's supposed to have upgrades like that.

We're off topic.

Hellcat is dedicatd AI? lol

Ost_Front_Soldat wrote:

Cranialwizard wrote:
Because it's a dedicated AI tank. It's supposed to have upgrades like that.

We're off topic.

Hellcat is dedicatd AI? lol

I was referring to the PE P4.

It doesn't even matter, even those MGs are minor and are only helpful in certain situations. Stag MG gunner is OP and deals a shit ton of suppression.

Case closed. MG is going on Elefant and will likely not be stronger than a coaxial. It's a AT vehicle and doesn't need to be able to stomp and suppress infantry as well.

Guys, you don't need to quote the whole block of text if it is right above your post ;).

Ostheer is going to have Elefants not Ferdinands, meaning that the hull mg will be there right off the bat. Now, for the cupola MG 34, that's up to the modeler, but it will be cool if has it :). If this mg would be implemente probably will come with vet, like happens with all OH tanks with coupola mgs.

Last edited March 6, 2012 at 10:16 PM by blackbishop

Cranialwizard wrote:

Ost_Front_Soldat wrote:

Cranialwizard wrote:
Because it's a dedicated AI tank. It's supposed to have upgrades like that.

We're off topic.

Hellcat is dedicatd AI? lol

I was referring to the PE P4.

It doesn't even matter, even those MGs are minor and are only helpful in certain situations. Stag MG gunner is OP and deals a shit ton of suppression.

Case closed. MG is going on Elefant and will likely not be stronger than a coaxial. It's a AT vehicle and doesn't need to be able to stomp and suppress infantry as well.

You mentioned only AI tanks have MG upgrade...but Hellcat is AT and it has AI upgrade.

And I never said it should be powerful! When did I say it should stomp infantry? You ok?

if im right, this is all about the elafant having an MG right? whatever. who cares. one little hull mg will not affect balance that much. even if it does, it will be changed. i would take the hint from cranial and suggest getting back on topic. just calm down and leave it to the devs.

blackbishop wrote:
Guys, you don't need to quote the whole block of text if it is right above your post ;).

Ostheer is going to have Elefants not Ferdinands, meaning that the hull mg will be there right off the bat. Now, for the cupola MG 34, that's up to the modeler, but it will be cool if has it :). If this mg would be implemente probably will come with vet, like happens with all OH tanks with coupola mgs.

Thanks for clearing that up.  ;)

And I do not think any Elefants have cupola MGs.

Last edited March 6, 2012 at 10:16 PM by blackbishop

stealthattack1 wrote:
if im right, this is all about the elafant having an MG right? whatever. who cares. one little hull mg will not affect balance that much. even if it does, it will be changed. i would take the hint from cranial and suggest getting back on topic. just calm down and leave it to the devs.

But when someone argues against it for no good reason, you're not going to leave it at that...

I mean, something like this ;D!


Elefant w/ cupola MG34

@blackbishop  nice pic ;)

@Ost_Front_Soldat  fair enough, but still. argument concluded.

Ost_Front_Soldat wrote:

BurroDiablo wrote:
[...]

Exactly, but I still think it should be a cheap upgrade, kind of representing the lessons learned on the eastern front throughout the years. And how about this, if an enemy infantry unit is right infront of the hull (pretty much touching the Elefant) the MG-34 can suppress it for a few seconds.

Hmmm... if you put it that way I'd do this:

* Vet 0 -> Ferdinand
* Vet 1 -> Becomes Elefant, and now has a hull MG among other bonuses
* Vet 2 -> Gets the cupola gunner or Commander or some other bonus.
* Vet 3 -> Gets the cupola gunner or Commander if not given in vet 3 or some other bonus.

But that's just me and I'm not the one that decides it :P.

@stealthattack1
You are right, we are a bit off-topic ^^.

blackbishop wrote:

Ost_Front_Soldat wrote:

BurroDiablo wrote:
[...]

Exactly, but I still think it should be a cheap upgrade, kind of representing the lessons learned on the eastern front throughout the years. And how about this, if an enemy infantry unit is right infront of the hull (pretty much touching the Elefant) the MG-34 can suppress it for a few seconds.

Hmmm... if you put it that way I'd do this:

* Vet 0 -> Ferdinand
* Vet 1 -> Becomes Elefant, and now has a hull MG among other bonuses
* Vet 2 -> Gets the cupola gunner or Commander or some other bonus.
* Vet 3 -> Gets the cupola gunner or Commander if not given in vet 3 or some other bonus.

But that's just me and I'm not the one that decides it :P.

@stealthattack1
You are right, we are a bit off-topic ^^.

Sounds amazing. :) I'm still not sure if that model kit is 100% accurate but it is sexy :).

blackbishop wrote:

Ost_Front_Soldat wrote:

BurroDiablo wrote:
[...]

Exactly, but I still think it should be a cheap upgrade, kind of representing the lessons learned on the eastern front throughout the years. And how about this, if an enemy infantry unit is right infront of the hull (pretty much touching the Elefant) the MG-34 can suppress it for a few seconds.

Hmmm... if you put it that way I'd do this:

* Vet 0 -> Ferdinand
* Vet 1 -> Becomes Elefant, and now has a hull MG among other bonuses
* Vet 2 -> Gets the cupola gunner or Commander or some other bonus.
* Vet 3 -> Gets the cupola gunner or Commander if not given in vet 3 or some other bonus.

But that's just me and I'm not the one that decides it :P.

@stealthattack1
You are right, we are a bit off-topic ^^.

So Its name changes at Vet 1?

Supposing that this idea is supported, yes it will need to change.

Pictures are dead :(

I think because we are in the BETA...you can watch Ostheer already on Youtube or live on Twitch