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Geschutzwagen

Eastern Front

#57203

Geschutzwagen

What is it really, I know (tell me if I'm wrong my I know very little German) that Geschutzwagen means a mobile artillery platform and G-wagons aren't what I consider artillery, Plus it looks like a brother to the Marder 3 (only more awesome looking).





                  So my real point is what is the Geschutzwagen
            P.S: Is it a Panzerjager 39 (H)?
"AT missile is OP, Infantry is fine"

Sincerely, Tank

CoH name: LTEVANLEE
Steam: ScarfaceOsamaBinPolPot
TWC: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/member.php?u=147065
#57207

Re: Geschutzwagen

Its a Marder I so yes its a brother of a Marder III.
It is a mobile artillery - an anti tank altillery with a captured Soviet ZiS 3 gun (76,2mm) on a captured French light tank chassie. These ZiS guns were the best AT guns in 1941-1942 and Germans copied the design making their PAK 40 7,5cm.
My Ostheer concept.
#57215

Re: Geschutzwagen

I'm afraid that's incorrect, the Pak40 isn't a copy of the Zis-3. The Zis is a field artillery gun that was mostly used as an anti-tank gun whereas the Pak40 is a genuine AT gun.
Geschützwagen btw means, literally, Gun Wagon, it doesn't necessarily mean that it is an indirect firing artillery piece.
#57220

Re: Geschutzwagen

Analpirat wrote:
I'm afraid that's incorrect, the Pak40 isn't a copy of the Zis-3.

Im sure I heared somewhere that Germans copied something out of Soviet design.
But youre right, German gun was smaller and had 35% lower max elevation. Soviet muzzle velocity was also 30% lower than German gun. Didnt know that those guns differ so much. :-[
My Ostheer concept.
#57226

Re: Geschutzwagen

First Marder II used re-chambered Soviet F22 guns before fully moving onto the Pak40. That doesn't mean the Germans copied the Russians, it's simply because during the first stages of the war, the Germans captured so many F22 guns that it would have been a shame to let them go to waste :P

Gwagen is a modified H39 Hotchkiss with Pak40 attached. There was also another version with a 105 mm leFH18 attached to it. 105 leFH18 version of the Gwagen was more popular funnily enough. Still, less than 80 Hotchkiss were ever converted into Gwagens, it's quite an obscure weapon.
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Smells like. Victory.
#57417

Re: Geschutzwagen

BurroDiablo wrote:
First Marder II used re-chambered Soviet F22 guns before fully moving onto the Pak40. That doesn't mean the Germans copied the Russians, it's simply because during the first stages of the war, the Germans captured so many F22 guns that it would have been a shame to let them go to waste :P

Gwagen is a modified H39 Hotchkiss with Pak40 attached. There was also another version with a 105 mm leFH18 attached to it. 105 leFH18 version of the Gwagen was more popular funnily enough. Still, less than 80 Hotchkiss were ever converted into Gwagens, it's quite an obscure weapon.

Interesting. So why is the G-wagon in-game then?


Also, how many Hotchkisses did the German use in the war? Were they or the G-wagons taken to the east?
"You can close your eyes and plug your ears and be afraid and ignorant of the darker parts of history, but always know that you're the one responsible for allowing those events to happen again and with even greater consequences and not know how to end the nightmare you did upon yourself."
#57421

Re: Geschutzwagen

HyperSniper999 wrote:
Interesting. So why is the G-wagon in-game then?


Also, how many Hotchkisses did the German use in the war? Were they or the G-wagons taken to the east?

Hothkiss represents all French (mostly light) armor used by Germans and some of the modifications done to them. Captured French and British tanks were also converted to mobile AA guns.
Germans even used Renault FT-17 (WWI tank) in 1944 France.
My Ostheer concept.
#57427

Re: Geschutzwagen

HyperSniper999 wrote:
Interesting. So why is the G-wagon in-game then?


Because its cool
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#57428

Re: Geschutzwagen

Gwagen with 105mm looks nice.... I wish there would be model ingame... :'(
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Lord wrote:
OSTHEER IS DONE WHEN IT'S DONE!
#57429

Re: Geschutzwagen

cephalos wrote:
Gwagen with 105mm looks nice.... I wish there would be model ingame... :'(


I think sweeten or Lorankorn made a 105mm G-wagen, oh yeah found it here it is.

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Last edited February 5, 2011 at 10:29 AM by Snug

#57430

Re: Geschutzwagen

This "Geschützwagen" with 7,5cm Pak 40 and 10,5cm LeFh 18 were used in Normandy. They were build and used by the 21. Panzer-Division during the Normandy Battles.
No "Geschützwagen" was used at the eastern front.
May the force be with you.

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#57431

Re: Geschutzwagen

it could be awesome reward unit for StuH42...
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Lord wrote:
OSTHEER IS DONE WHEN IT'S DONE!
#57437

Re: Geschutzwagen

Lord wrote:
This "Geschützwagen" with 7,5cm Pak 40 and 10,5cm LeFh 18 were used in Normandy. They were build and used by the 21. Panzer-Division during the Normandy Battles.
No "Geschützwagen" was used at the eastern front.
So they weren't used at the eastern front? I find that very surprising because that's were Germany need the most TDs, right?
"AT missile is OP, Infantry is fine"

Sincerely, Tank

CoH name: LTEVANLEE
Steam: ScarfaceOsamaBinPolPot
TWC: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/member.php?u=147065
#57442

Re: Geschutzwagen

Well. This Geschürtwagen were build up on french materials.
The 21. PzDivision was destroyed in Africa and had to be rebuild and reinforced. When this Division was reorganised in France germany industry wasnt able to rearm the division so the 21. PzDiv decided to build up its own mobile weapons upon everything they could get.
So this tanks were an field improvisation by this single divisions; no general produced german tanks.
Eastern front needed a lot of tanks and Sturmgeschütze but this front was supplied by the german industry with "german stuff" and not such a field improvisation ;)
May the force be with you.

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#57443

Re: Geschutzwagen

Mr Defence, no offense, but since when were Hitler's decisions in the war sane?
#57444

Re: Geschutzwagen

Lord wrote:
Well. This Geschürtwagen were build up on french materials.
The 21. PzDivision was destroyed in Africa and had to be rebuild and reinforced. When this Division was reorganised in France germany industry wasnt able to rearm the division so the 21. PzDiv decided to build up its own mobile weapons upon everything they could get.
So this tanks were an field improvisation by this single divisions; no general produced german tanks.
Eastern front needed a lot of tanks and Sturmgeschütze but this front was supplied by the german industry with "german stuff" and not such a field improvisation ;)

this sounds logical... did Germans build more weapons like Gwagen? On other french chasis'?
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Lord wrote:
OSTHEER IS DONE WHEN IT'S DONE!
#57463

Re: Geschutzwagen

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16 were made on the B1 Bis chassis.

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FCM 36 chassis, 105LefH Geschützwagen

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FCM 36 chassis, Marder I conversion

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'4,7 cm PaK(t) auf Panzerkampfwagen 35R(f) ohne Turm', R35 chassis

All I got right now :P
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Smells like. Victory.
#57466

Re: Geschutzwagen

There is much more ;)

3,7cm PAK on Infantry Carrier UE (F)
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4,7cm PaK on Panzerjäger Lorraine-S (F)
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7,5cm PaK 97/98 on PzKpfw T-26 (SOV)
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5cm PAK on Munitionsschlepper
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Panzerjäger Bren Carrier
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7,5cm StuK on Pz 38 t
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10,5cm FH 18 pn PzKpfw Mk IV (UK)
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Infantry tank PzKpfw Mk II (UK) with 5cm KwK L/42
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U see; there are much more "uglies" (Star wars term xDDD).
May the force be with you.

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#57470

Re: Geschutzwagen

Knew there were more, cephalos only wanted French chassis, but it's cool to see other obscure conversion. I mean, Panzerjager Bren Carrier? Wtf?!
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Smells like. Victory.
#57482

Re: Geschutzwagen

ok, I meant all of them. Or just the most of them ;)
some of them looks scary, and other just ugly...
but great thanks...  ;D
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Lord wrote:
OSTHEER IS DONE WHEN IT'S DONE!
#57541

Re: Geschutzwagen

Tico_1990 wrote:
Mr Defence, no offense, but since when were Hitler's decisions in the war sane?

well he almost won the war, and the effort it took to beat him would make me think he had done a few things right....
"This Goddam forum smells like Volksgrenadiers!"
1st SS Division Leibstandarte SS A. H.
#57544

Re: Geschutzwagen

Griptonix wrote:
Tico_1990 wrote:
Mr Defence, no offense, but since when were Hitler's decisions in the war sane?

well he almost won the war, and the effort it took to beat him would make me think he had done a few things right....


German generals, and german soldiers almost won the war. Hitler did not. He was as bad as Stalin considering strategical stuff, Stalin did just have more manpower to correct his "mistake" (which is astonishing, considering also how many guy he send to death before the war  :P )
"Du sublime au ridicule, il n'y a qu'un pas"
-Napoléon Bonaparte
#57546

Re: Geschutzwagen

Griptonix wrote:
Tico_1990 wrote:
Mr Defence, no offense, but since when were Hitler's decisions in the war sane?

well he almost won the war, and the effort it took to beat him would make me think he had done a few things right....

a) "He" didn't come anywhere close to even "almost" win the war.
b) Doing things that you are urgently advised to do by your general staff aren't things that'd normally earn you an recommendation, but it takes a lunatic to completely ignore the entire general staff while making absolutely terrible strategic decisions.
c) Your apparent liking of nazi ideology is disturbing.
d) For these discussions I may refer you to another thread in these forums, "Why did Germany loose the War"
#57568

Re: Geschutzwagen

Red_Stinger wrote:
Griptonix wrote:
Tico_1990 wrote:
Mr Defence, no offense, but since when were Hitler's decisions in the war sane?

well he almost won the war, and the effort it took to beat him would make me think he had done a few things right....


German generals, and german soldiers almost won the war. Hitler did not. He was as bad as Stalin considering strategical stuff, Stalin did just have more manpower to correct his "mistake" (which is astonishing, considering also how many guy he send to death before the war  :P )

Hitler Global politics in 1940-1942 were really bad and this was more important than his military failures.
He could have created puppet state in Ukraine (second largest republic in USRR) and then he would have 1.000.000 more allied soldiers and a reliable supply road to Stalingrad thru friendly territory.
My Ostheer concept.
#57569

Re: Geschutzwagen

Guys... keep on topic! You can discuss all that stuff on Why did Germany lose on the Eastern Front? topic.
Mors Indecepta

Might controls everything, and without strength you cannot protect anything. Let alone yourself...
#57584

Re: Geschutzwagen

I have a question about the G-wagon for you guys, If it uses a PaK 40 7.5 cm gun, why can't it penetrate the frontal amour of a Sherman? I've seen it happen a million times and it dominates anything smaller than a M10.
"AT missile is OP, Infantry is fine"

Sincerely, Tank

CoH name: LTEVANLEE
Steam: ScarfaceOsamaBinPolPot
TWC: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/member.php?u=147065
#57585

Re: Geschutzwagen

Mr wrote:
I have a question about the G-wagon for you guys, If it uses a PaK 40 7.5 cm gun, why can't it penetrate the frontal amour of a Sherman? I've seen it happen a million times and it dominates anything smaller than a M10.

Cause Shermans are awsome!!! 8) :P
My Ostheer concept.
#57586

Re: Geschutzwagen

Paciat wrote:
Mr wrote:
I have a question about the G-wagon for you guys, If it uses a PaK 40 7.5 cm gun, why can't it penetrate the frontal amour of a Sherman? I've seen it happen a million times and it dominates anything smaller than a M10.

Cause Shermans are awsome!!! 8) :P

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Lord wrote:
OSTHEER IS DONE WHEN IT'S DONE!
#57587

Re: Geschutzwagen

Im not kidding. Shermans are awsome.
My Ostheer concept.
#57589

Re: Geschutzwagen

Mr wrote:
I have a question about the G-wagon for you guys, If it uses a PaK 40 7.5 cm gun, why can't it penetrate the frontal amour of a Sherman? I've seen it happen a million times and it dominates anything smaller than a M10.

Because its a game and not a simulation.
#57630

Re: Geschutzwagen

The Gwagon didnt just use the chassis of the hotchkiss, only 80 were made using the hotchkiss chassis, while around 170 where made ussing the chassis of the Lorraine, a french artillery mover

also an interesting website on tanks the germans captured and modifications they made

http://beute.narod.ru/index.htm
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#57633

Re: Geschutzwagen

Paciat wrote:
Im not kidding. Shermans are awsome.
I honestly prefer G-wagons. When they're supported by Grenadiers or other infantry, its a great combo.
"AT missile is OP, Infantry is fine"

Sincerely, Tank

CoH name: LTEVANLEE
Steam: ScarfaceOsamaBinPolPot
TWC: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/member.php?u=147065