The Jagdtiger issue

Yup, will be one time call-in, like in the past ;).

blackbishop wrote:
Yup, will be one time call-in, like in the past ;).

But it wasn't.
At least I seem to recall that Pre-OF the Tiger Ace had a unit cap of 1 and a cost of 1000mp. But you were able to call it multiple times (If memory serves me right). One time call ins only appeared with OF and that was also when the Tiger Ace was replaced.
And that is why I'd suggest you abstain from the one time call in with little up front cost and "interest" over time, IIRC no one ever complained about the Tiger Ace's cost and "recallability" so I'd suggest you keep it that way.

Edit: I can't find anything to back that claim up so I guess I mistook that.

Last edited January 14, 2011 at 10:14 PM by Analpirat

Well, a friend of mine has a vCoH dvd, i could borrow it and install it if you want yo be sure, because honestly i don't remember either :P.

I guess is just one call-in unit because is stronger than normal tiger. I'll upload the screenshot later.

I have one too but I don't think I care that much to try it out ;)
I know it's performance was roughly on par with a vet 3 Tiger, but given that you could (back then) have two Blitz Tigers the choice was often in favor of the latter.
So I don't know if the Tiger Ace is that powerful (any longer) that it needs to be single call-in but I guess it's better to begin with a underpowered unit rather than a overpowered one.

Yeah, sounds like the Tiger Ace was able to be at the field one unit at any time, since the hard caps to heavier call-in tanks were put on OF.

Yes, the Tiger ace was 1000mp and one on the field at a time but recallable. It also didn't have the black skin from the campaign I don't think, it actually had a dark grey/greenish skin. At the time Blitz Tigers were available at 2 at once which made it far more popular. As it stands, the only reason to go Blitz now will be the stormtroopers. Terror now has everything anyone could ever want.

As for the Jagdtiger, it also fits as a replacement for the jagdpanther, being slower but more powerful. This is fine but serious thought needs to be put into making Blitz an interesting choice when it is already underused compared to the other two doctrines. Terror is all round amazing and defensive has the best 1cp ability in the game in FTFL and also has advanced warning and registered arty, all excellent early powers. Blitz has stormtroopers, that's it.

blackbishop wrote:
Yeah, sounds like the Tiger Ace was able to be at the field one unit at any time, since the hard caps to heavier call-in tanks were put on OF.

I still think the ace should be capped to one in the game. In general, calling it in should be just expensive as a kingtiger.
It should be just like a kingtiger, this way the blitz leaves less appeal as GodlikeDennis mentioned. The Ace should differ as much as possible from the blitz tiger.


Regards

For the Tiger Ace just make it strong, and make it a one time deal like the KT; that's it.

Don't forget to implement the black skin along with Schultz as the commander.

I vote for the vanilla Tiger Ace because I don't like the singe time call-in all that much. Given it's high cost I also don't think that there's such a problem with its recallability. Also, I think it is far more terrifying that such a powerful tank might make a return instead of just destroying it and be done for it. (It's still "only" a vet 3 Tiger, so it's not like its invincible)

OTOH I have to agree with GodlikeDennis that Blitz will have a real problem selling itself. Back then it was 2 Blitz Tigers vs 1 Terror Tiger, which didn't go so well. So I think returning the 2nd Blitz Tiger isn't an option. I also think that returning the Sturmtruppen squads that came with each called in tank isn't a solution either. Perhaps a reward unit for the StuH to see how that works out? Brummbär? (Is that even a legitimate proposition?)

Imo will be unfair if the ace could be called more than once.

+1 for the idea of making Jagdtiger a reward unit for the Jagdpanther, honestly i thought it would be that way when it was introduced.

Anyway, now for the Tiger Ace i tend to disagree...it would sure make the Blitz even less more attractive. I played around patch 1.5 and back then it was quite different...you could call in 2 Tigers as Blitz and only one as Terror. So it was a hard decision to make, however i mostly went for the Blitz then. Nowadays when you could only call one-at-a-time for Blitz its a different story. I propose another solution, which already appeared in this thread earlier - make a Tiger II (King Tiger) with production turret (Henschel turret) a reward unit for the King Tiger with Porsche turret. No change in stats just a visual change same as with the Tiger 205 reward unit. And the grand-reappearance of Tiger Ace should be on the Eastern Front comrades! Yes the Ostheer should have it instead, i mean wasnt that Hauptman Voss and/or Oberst Schultz portraited as Michael Wittman? And where Michael Wittman gained his reputation...ofcourse on Eastern Front (its even said in the intro of the Tiger Ace campaing in ToV) where he started as Stug III commander and then he gained his Tiger and became a tank legend.

So lets summarize it:
- Terror can gain a powerful King Tiger with Henschel turret reward unit, which is more historically accurate (and i personally think cooler), anyways it will keep with the current concept of Terror doctrine - psychological abuse and spreading fear.
- Ostheer on the other hand can gain the great call-in Tiger, not just another ordinary Tiger I and/or buildable one, it could be the (in)famous Tiger Ace, which many players would like to see again (including me as well). Ostheer design isnt finished yet, based on what Lord Rommel stated, so i think it wouldnt be much of a problem to fit it in some doctrine. And lastly it could bring some more players to EF which would want to see Tiger Ace again, because frankly if i recall right its not in any other mod around.
- And most importantly it will keep with the EF policy of not changing vanilla factions in any (drastic) way.

So fellow comrades what do you think? ;)

Last edited January 16, 2011 at 12:29 AM by Strayker

If the ace goes to ostheer, I will choose ostheer instead of wehr-BK any day, and also will make BK less attractive :-X.

blackbishop wrote:
If the ace goes to ostheer, I will choose ostheer instead of wehr-BK any day, and also will make BK less attractive :-X.

Well thats great, because many players will choose that as well, which means more players for Ostheer - more players for EF - one big win. ;)

I'm not too fond of making Blitzkrieg doctrine being underused :-\. Lets hope the devs make the right decision :).

Last edited January 16, 2011 at 12:55 AM by blackbishop

Also, we don't need to add the Henschel turrent KT.  Its essentially the same unit.

If you want it instead of the lame Porsche version, just use Halftrack's model in your skinpack.
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?248022-HTs-amp-TDs-3D-Factory-new-custom-models-M5-3inch-AT-Gun

Yeah if your only idea is to have a KT with a different model replace the current KT then I think that idea is without merit. You think anyone apart from you cares enough whether the KT has a Henschel or a Porsche turret if it doesn't even make any difference gameplay wise? Might es well offer reward units that differ merely in the skin they use. A reward unit should imo at least differ in Performance from the unit it replaces, because if it can't do even that it's just a gimmick.

No, I think the Tiger Ace should, if at all, come back to Terror where it belongs. The only question is how that can be implemented without making Blitz (even more) unattractive.

Analpirat wrote:
Yeah if your only idea is to have a KT with a different model replace the current KT then I think that idea is without merit. You think anyone apart from you cares enough whether the KT has a Henschel or a Porsche turret if it doesn't even make any difference gameplay wise?

I gotta agree with you, that a reward unit has to have some difference. So there is a clear no form me for a reward unit like that. But i gotta support chancellor about this one. He sent me his skinpack, which included the henschel-turret KT as well. First of all i didnt care about it, but than i called it in once. It looks simply kick-ass. I could upload some screens later..

Analpirat wrote:
[...] come back to Terror [...]

hell yea!



Regards

Last edited January 17, 2011 at 2:28 PM by Venoxxis

@Venoxxis - awesome pic :)

indeed  ;D

cephalos wrote:
@Venoxxis - awesome pic :)

+10000  :D

Thank you very much guys! I really enjoyed making it.
The return of this unit in form of the sp_black_ace will be a hype.

Get ready for the AceAct CoH community! 



best Regards

I don't see, what your problem is, guys...
I mean, just download the skin, and use it to your pleasure, really. ::)

of course you are right, but its not about that skin. The skin would be just an addition ppl here and in the relic forums seem to like as well ;)

Bringing a old pupular unit back is the idea of the tiger ace. With all its advantages and disadvantages over the KT.


Regards

IJoe wrote:
I don't see, what your problem is, guys...
I mean, just download the skin, and use it to your pleasure, really. ::)

Skins are not compitable with EF multiplayer games

Snug wrote:

IJoe wrote:
I don't see, what your problem is, guys...
I mean, just download the skin, and use it to your pleasure, really. ::)

Skins are not compitable with EF multiplayer games

You're absolutely definitely wrong here. This goes only for  wrongly inserted skins.

He's not wrong, mate.  My own personal skinpack (the one I shared with you) doesn't work with EF multiplayer.  I can never get a dev to help me out with this lol

Chancellor wrote:
He's not wrong, mate.  My own personal skinpack (the one I shared with you) doesn't work with EF multiplayer.  I can never get a dev to help me out with this lol

Thanks for reminding me about that xD! I was thinking the problem lies on the sga, i mean, if you extract the content on Eastern_Front folder instead of replacing CoH's sga files... just throwing a theory.

OK thanks man; I'll try that out tonight.  You got my skinpack as reference just in case right?

There are at least 4 skinpacks that I know, which don't conflict with EF in any way.
Basically, unless you're seriously messing up with ebps or sbps, there should be no problem, AFAIK. Though I am by no means a pro.

Chancellor wrote:
OK thanks man; I'll try that out tonight.  You got my skinpack as reference just in case right?

yes, I have your skin pack.

IJoe wrote:
There are at least 4 skinpacks that I know, which don't conflict with EF in any way.
Basically, unless you're seriously messing up with ebps or sbps, there should be no problem, AFAIK. Though I am by no means a pro.

You are the first user who say that can use customized skin packs on EF and play against users who don't have them :o. What skin packs do you know that work on EF?

Last edited January 18, 2011 at 11:22 PM by blackbishop

IJoe wrote:
There are at least 4 skinpacks that I know, which don't conflict with EF in any way.
Basically, unless you're seriously messing up with ebps or sbps, there should be no problem, AFAIK. Though I am by no means a pro.

I would "absolutely definitely" like to see some evidence for that claim.

blackbishop wrote:

Chancellor wrote:
OK thanks man; I'll try that out tonight.  You got my skinpack as reference just in case right?

yes, I have your skin pack.

IJoe wrote:
There are at least 4 skinpacks that I know, which don't conflict with EF in any way.
Basically, unless you're seriously messing up with ebps or sbps, there should be no problem, AFAIK. Though I am by no means a pro.

You are the first user who say that can use customized skin packs on EF and play against users who don't have them :o. What skin packs do you know that work on EF?

Hellfox's pack for EF
RSP 6.1 pack for EF
GniruH's pack for EF
There was some other, but I must've deleted it from my PC, sorry.
Correct me, if I am horribly wrong here (I well may be, for, as I already said, I am really long way from being a pro in this kind of things).  :)

EDIT: BTW, I found a three pages long topic on that issue on the forum. Here's the link http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=2107.0

Last edited January 19, 2011 at 9:39 AM by IJoe

IJoe wrote:

blackbishop wrote:

Chancellor wrote:
OK thanks man; I'll try that out tonight.  You got my skinpack as reference just in case right?

yes, I have your skin pack.

IJoe wrote:
There are at least 4 skinpacks that I know, which don't conflict with EF in any way.
Basically, unless you're seriously messing up with ebps or sbps, there should be no problem, AFAIK. Though I am by no means a pro.

You are the first user who say that can use customized skin packs on EF and play against users who don't have them :o. What skin packs do you know that work on EF?

Hellfox's pack for EF
RSP 6.1 pack for EF
GniruH's pack for EF
There was some other, but I must've deleted it from my PC, sorry.
Correct me, if I am horribly wrong here (I well may be, for, as I already said, I am really long way from being a pro in this kind of things).  :)

EDIT: BTW, I found a three pages long topic on that issue on the forum. Here's the link http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=2107.0

I believe they are talking about CoH Skinpacks not working with EF.

so i think this is be settled. i can look forward to the Tiger Ace in the Terror Doctrine.

How about the Sturmtiger as a replacement for the Hummel?  :D

As the matter is settled this thread has no reason to be open. If you want to discuss something else i recommend to open a new topic about it ;).