Eastern Front News #13.02.2009

Soviet Union Infantry:

http://www.moddb.com/mods/coheastern-front/videos

Amazing!!!  ;D  :o realy like it, fun to see that some of it was things not nounced before so it was  fun supprise to hear about the comand squad. though the muzzleflash cloud from the svt-40 was a bit to big IMO.

Gotta love em. :)

YouTube pl0x!!!

Why can't you watch it on Moddb?

Nice vid btw Apex. It's cool to see the new headers being used :)

I use itouch to see forums: it has YouTube but not flash player...

:O Apex and the team. You guys NEVER cease to amaze me :D



Ahm. Yeah. My bad.

Last edited February 14, 2009 at 2:44 AM by Brewsky

Brewsky wrote:
You guys cease to amaze me :D

Oh, sorry to hear that...

...

I'm guessing you mean NEVER cease to amaze you ;)

Well, as who born in the USSR, I say: It is horrible.
I thing that in the EF mod  must have Assault-Engineer troops, Strelki, some officers and etc., but not commissars, conscripts and other the Red Alert style units.

Last edited February 14, 2009 at 9:50 AM by UeArtemis

I agree very much with Artemis. I was wondering if ever one of the USSR/Russian people who was here at the beginning would come back.

Then when I saw this vid. I didnt think they would. Because Artemis is right, the units are much to "red alert", and much is inspired from american movies.

meybe you shuld get inspiration for infantery from komunist propaganda posters, those soldiers allways look so happy and just shine of awsomeness  ;D

I never played Red Alert. And I think your pride blinds you.

Why your Guards have body armour? Assault engineers have body armour and flame-throwers in real.
When you make mod, please, read something historical.
For example, after the OF, I read in Internet that Canadian Priests have a different guns than models of the USA. And in the game we can see English guns on Priests.

Last edited February 14, 2009 at 2:14 PM by UeArtemis

I played most of the RA games, but I haven't watched any American movies about the Soviets during WW2.

I have to say, this is nothing like Red Alert. Considering Red Alert is set in an alternate reality and feeds on vastly exaggerated sterotypes, I find it hard to believe somebody could make such a comparison. We're still to give our Buildings Orthodox domes. ::)

You have to accept however, that conscription most certainly did happen during the GPW and it was forced on all able bodied men. To think otherwise is incredibly ignorant of history, it is not some "Hollywood Conspiracy" to demean Russia.

As for your other question... this is a G A M E... we need to keep things balanced. We already have a force of 4 Sappers that can take down the Pion's with ease, why the heck would we make them any stronger? And what do you mean "Read something historical"... we have been doing since this mod started. What, you think we're wandering blindly into some realm of the unknown? Maybe thats why the T-34 looks like a flying saucer.

Last edited February 14, 2009 at 2:14 PM by BurroDiablo

When you criticize a mod, keep in mind that there is something called gameplay. These are all gameplay design & balance decisions.
Historical accuracy is important, but gameplay is always more important.

Apart from that, I think your version of history is more like a propaganda fairytale. Stamping the conscripts as hollywood myth, although there were weapon and equipment shortages all over the place in 1942, is quite ignorant. Just as trying to tell me that commissars are just a red alert stereotype.

So relax, be more open to this game, and have fun with it.

QuoteI was wondering if ever one of the USSR/Russian people who was here at the beginning would come back.

Also known as Soviet_Marine, our Russian, Russian Historian.

Can I please see this on YouTube?

If the team are still open to suggestions, may I give one last soviet unit suggestion? Yes, regulars can be armed with ppsh, but I still think there needs to be one last squad type: an assault based squad, like engineers in size, who already have ppsh and can be upgraded with pps43...

Before you all shout at me, please hear me out: the assault squad was invented by the soviets in Stalingrad. It was vitally important throughout the war and is very historically accurate: give them the usual Sapper/engineer equipment and additional shock troop abilities and leave engineers as standard units like pioneers: this means the soviets do not start with an op unit but gives assault engineers of a type at tier 2.

I'm sorry if this post offends anyone, no sarcasm intended.

What is it on arms of Guards??? It is stupid! I think that history is necessary in WW2 games.

I think your version of history is more like a propaganda fairytale ;)
Commissars were like second commanders. They could cancel orders of real commanders if they think that commanders is not loyal, traitors. They were observers of the Party, not executors.
When an army get the course "edinonachalie" (единоначалие, "single command"), the institution of military commissars was abolished.
And in the Red Army all privates and sergeants were draftees!!! No regular!
Sorry for my bad English

Last edited February 14, 2009 at 3:45 PM by UeArtemis

so....they are not going to add shock squads....? :'(

Last edited February 14, 2009 at 3:21 PM by kevinkahn

Do you mean my favourite assault engineer-sapper troops with body armour? Yes, they aren’t.
Oh, assault engineers can be beautiful “doctrinal” call-in squad.

Dragon93 wrote:

QuoteI was wondering if ever one of the USSR/Russian people who was here at the beginning would come back.

Also known as Soviet_Marine, our Russian, Russian Historian.

Havent seem him for a long time.

But I think you should make conscript fully rifled with mosin nagant, and upgradable with svt-40, and less size.
Make regulars to assoult squad with ppsh, and keep red guard as elite distance squad. With maybe 1 ppsh in the squad.

This way, early game, conscript with engeener support. Mid-late game. Assoult squad, affective at close range. And Red guards affective at long range, and expensive.

And yes maybe have special squads as doctrine call ins.

And wasnt this mod in latewar time? Like regular coh 1944. There where no shortage then. And units had lots of experience.

EDIT: Maybe you can upgrade engeeners to have body armor, and remove assoult squad, so engeeners is in main use by soviet players. And they can stand late game.

Last edited February 14, 2009 at 3:42 PM by iTRemeN

UeArtemis wrote:
What is it on arms of Guards??? It is stupid! I think that history is necessary in WW2 games.

Skins can be changed.

QuoteWhen an army get the course toward "edinonachalie" (единоначалие, "single command"), the institution of military commissars was abolished.

Political commissars, yes. But NKVD commissars had alot of their men on the front line in order to stiffen the Soviet defences, and their numbers grew right up until the end of the war. A tenth of the Red Army was in NKVD divisions.

iTRemeN wrote:
And wasnt this mod in latewar time? Like regular coh 1944. There where no shortage then. And units had lots of experience.

Its 1941-1945... the entire stretch of the GPW.

But honestly guys. There's no need to start causing grief because a few units haven't made it into the mod, or even because a few have. We really need to take the game balance into account here; a bunch of indestructible super sappers will not help game balance, neither will removing units. We can change names, we can change skins, but please don't ask for things to be added unless you have thought long and hard about how it will effect the gameplay.

Last edited February 14, 2009 at 4:11 PM by BurroDiablo

Well, in 1943 the Red Army changed uniform, for example. The Red Armies of 1941 and of 1945 are not same. I think make from 1941 to 1945 isn’t wise.
And, lets don’t mix NKVD troops and the Red Army. It is like Wehrmacht and SS, Gestapo. Different things.

Last edited February 14, 2009 at 4:29 PM by UeArtemis

But how would a 1941 unit stand up to a 1945?


I think my suggestion for units is well balanced.

If you have conscripts as 6 men squad. They will be like volks, and be worse then your current conscripts.
Upgrade with mg or anti tank so they will have a role in late game.

Engeeners will dominate pios 1v1. But in mid game. When grens comes, engeeners will not stand chance, unless they get upgraded with body armor. And then they will become the main assoult squad. Gren/volks would win in long distances. Volks with mp40s, would be worse then engeeners.

Panzer assoult grens, would be the same as upgraded engeeners, but engeeners are defualt 1 person more so they would win.

Red guard are something like knight cross holders in health. But will be a support unit for the conscripts.

This sounds quite balanced to me.

I disagree.

Keep everything as it is, EXCEPT: give engineers a midgame upgrade to make them "assault sappers" but with the same aiming etc then a very expensive lategame guards upgrade to take them to grenadier ability. This means that they are better than pioneers, then in midgame they get some better abilities like wire cutters and grenade assault, but aren't as good as grenadiers (same numbers but worse upgrades) and then late game they become a counterpart for the guards squad in assault with the same training as grenadiers

 

This mumbo-jumbo of ideas shows me why we are making the mod, not you. Whatever you think "sounds quite balanced", it is not because it doesnt take a lot of things into account. One builder unit cannot dominate the other in a balanced game. And neither will we make conscripts copycats of volks or red guard copycats of kch.

CoH is not an ultra realistic game if you havent realized that. And why is that? Because its goal is having fun, and not having your tanks dead with one shot. Everything in here is stylised. So dont try to do things like forbidding us playing in stalingrad and berlin because of some uniform bla bla. 

I considered that as well noob, but Sappers, even with SN-42 body armor, will not be able to stand up against grenadiers etc. without major stats changes. Thats why it is not a good idea.

Did I mention copying anything, did I mention life realistic stats? I hope you will read thru my post again.

I only used volks etc, as something to compare to, and I have never said I wanted tanks dead with one shot.

And there is also a reason why you have forums, to discuss about the mod, discuss ideas, discuss units to the mod etc.
It is not wise to just create units show them for the first time to the fans, and tell them no changes are going to be made, thats not a good working mod.

And if your not allowed to say what you think there is no reason for you to have this forum.

And when did anyone say that your not allowed to use Stalingrad or Berlin? You dont have to get so extremely hostile as soon as you hear critic.

EDIT, I came up with the ideas while I was typing just as starters, so now I know it is not wise to use a building unit for main combat. Then I can evolve my idea. That is how a forum works. You cant just say, your ideas are bad!! Because this unit and that wont work!

EDIT2: I have just read your post more carefully. "One builder unit cannot dominate the other in a balanced game". This I belive was said by Diablo "We already have a force of 4 Sappers that can take down the Pion's with ease". So I just based my engineers on hes statement. dont flame me for it.

Last edited February 14, 2009 at 6:09 PM by iTRemeN

Apex wrote:
I considered that as well noob, but Sappers, even with SN-42 body armor, will not be able to stand up against grenadiers etc. without major stats changes. Thats why it is not a good idea.

Hmmm: the idea is that sappers augment regulars midgame, they don't kill the grenadiers unless they're in a building (use grenade assault) lategame however they get body armour, a panzerfaust and a flamethrower, in which case they can equal grenadiers

Red Guard sometimes had moustaches. It's unrealistic to have them without mustaches.

If I make this mod, I’ll make:
Sappers – first unit, created in “Stavka” (HQ), builders, can be upgraded Mine-detector, can mined like U.S. combat engineer, armed by rifles.
Redarmymen – basic unit, created in “Kazarms” (barracks).
Guardians – elite unit.
Sniper, Mortar team, MG team,
Officer – similar to British or Axis.
Call-in doctrinal unit:
Naval Infantry
Assault engineers (who can be upgraded flamethrower)
We do not need so many infantry units. If do not count support teams, British have 2 type + 2 type of officer + 1 doctrinal , the U.S.A have 2 type + 2 type doctrinal. I think for the Red Army 2-3 type + 2 doctrinal is enough too. But now we have 4 undoctrinal units.

Last edited February 14, 2009 at 7:08 PM by UeArtemis

UeArtemis wrote:
But now we have 4 undoctrinal units.

we ?

Or You ^_^
We all, who will be play in this mod and who make it.

Apex wrote:
Red Guard sometimes had moustaches. It's unrealistic to have them without mustaches.

Why dont you lay of the realistic talk, and answer my previeus post.

EDIT: lol, "sometimes". That makes them accaptable to portray without moustasches if you where going for a full blown realistic game.
But please stop this realistic talk..

@Devs

How many ideas have come from fans?

Last edited February 14, 2009 at 7:12 PM by iTRemeN

Apex wrote:
CoH is not an ultra realistic game if you havent realized that. And why is that? Because its goal is having fun, and not having your tanks dead with one shot. Everything in here is stylised. So dont try to do things like forbidding us playing in stalingrad and berlin because of some uniform bla bla. 

if a realalistic game is what you want then wy dont you go to some one alse and beg for a Realistic mod for CoH, if you havent niticed this is a EF mod not Realistic, the name of the mod shuld be enugh to tell you that,

this qoute is not something agoainst the one who wrote it i just used it as an argument against the ones who did not write it.

Not critic now. I have question: what symbols you will use on “shields” of units?
P.S. Good logo for mod. It is excellent, much better than old.

Last edited February 14, 2009 at 7:51 PM by UeArtemis

TheAllMihtyOne wrote:

Apex wrote:
CoH is not an ultra realistic game if you havent realized that. And why is that? Because its goal is having fun, and not having your tanks dead with one shot. Everything in here is stylised. So dont try to do things like forbidding us playing in stalingrad and berlin because of some uniform bla bla. 

if a realalistic game is what you want then wy dont you go to some one alse and beg for a Realistic mod for CoH, if you havent niticed this is a EF mod not Realistic, the name of the mod shuld be enugh to tell you that,

this qoute is not something agoainst the one who wrote it i just used it as an argument against the ones who did not write it.

None wrote that they wanted a realistic mod. Thats why i tell him to stop talking about realistic stuff all the time.

UeArtemis wrote:
I have question: what symbols you will use on “shields” of units?

It is already in the mod, but it is kinda hard to see because moddb is always decreasing the quality of the videos a lot. Units have squad shields based on their purpose, and infantry shields are based on rank insignia. We also have custom squad shield weapon icons.

iTRemeN wrote:And if your not allowed to say what you think there is no reason for you to have this forum.

A lot of other forums would have closed a topic like this by now, or started whipping out the ban stick.
We're not fascists, you can say whatever you want, but you need to expect an equal response in return. You can't expect say "This is Horrible!! Add this and this and this!!!" and not expect some hostility in return. We are doing this because the majority, if not ALL people who have played CoH have wanted to see the Soviets added, and we are doing this to the best of our ability. If that's not good enough, or you feel we're ignoring you, we are sorry, but don't expect us to deviate very far from our expected path. The mod has been worked out on paper and now its beginning to be set in stone, we want this released as quickly as we can therefor any major chages like the adding of new units, the changing of stats and/or the doctrine models has to be minimal. We won't be able to get anywhere if we just sit fiddling with the game mechanics for months on end, adding a unit here, deleting one there.

QuoteThat is how a forum works. You cant just say, your ideas are bad!! Because this unit and that wont work!

We have not said "You idea's are bad", we have said "Keep it Balanced". These super-sappers you seems to want included would mess up the game balance, but in no way is it a bad idea.

QuoteEDIT2: I have just read your post more carefully. "One builder unit cannot dominate the other in a balanced game". This I belive was said by Diablo "We already have a force of 4 Sappers that can take down the Pion's with ease". So I just based my engineers on hes statement. dont flame me for it.

The Allied Engineer's also dominate the Pioneers, its not just the Soviet ones.
I acctually just tried to kill some Pions and I may have to take back my last comment since my sqaud got ripped to shreds, with the Pions taking a minimal loss of health. I tried again behind light cover and managed to kill the Pioneers however, so it differs greatly given your squads cover status. ;)

QuoteP.S. Good logo for mod. It is excellent, much better than old.

Thank you, I thought we needed a change. Will work on it a lot more given we get the models finished and in game. ;)

QuoteIt is already in the mod, but it is kinda hard to see because moddb is always decreasing the quality of the videos a lot. Units have squad shields based on their purpose, and infantry shields are based on rank insignia. We also have custom squad shield weapon icons.

Interesting. You use ranks of begin or end of the war?

About super sappers… Assault engineers aren’t basebuilders, they are destroyers. If in mod was some Assault doctrine, it will be cool, because the Assault engineer-sapper troops used TNT, РОКС-3 (flamethrower),  body armor, OT-34 (flamethrower tank) and ПТ-34 (mineroller tank). They can be like commandos by gameplay and flamethrower and mineroller tanks are already in the game.

Last edited February 14, 2009 at 10:12 PM by UeArtemis

This is freakin' ridiculous. Pardon my french. But the guys have been working their ASSES of to make this mod the best it can be. And you're getting pissy because they are doing it the right way? Just stop freaking posting on this if all you have to say is bitch and moan because it's annoying. If you want an EF mod made your way. Go make your own one. Otherwise. STFU. Like I said before Apex and team. You guys freaking rock the CoH world.

Go Team!  ;)

I simply say how it can be. There is only one wrong thing: how looks Guards. They looks like nazy now.
I don’t have any skill to go to the mod team :(

Recognition is an important factor here. Units have to look different so friend and foe can distuinguish them. Conscripts - Pilotka cap, Regulars - Sleeping bags and helmet, guards - coats and armwraps.

Well,  I can help!
It maybe winter uniform of Guardia.

http://www.rkka.ru/uniform/images/arm_12.jpg
It is parade uniform of Guardia.

Not realistic, but… if you need difference, a green winter uniform will be a good choice. Also you can use camouflage.

Last edited February 14, 2009 at 9:47 PM by UeArtemis

AHAH! I HAVE IT!!!!

After much poring through the mod db site I have found the doctrine list:

One of the abilities for the mechanized warfare doctrine is to call in a squad of mechanics who can salvage. Give them basic repair ability, no build ability, ppsh's, then the upgrade to pps43 and panzerfaust or flamethrower. Since they are the last doctrine ability on that command tree, they can be given the assault engineer abilities as described above and not be op since they will probably be a late game unit

the team has little to change, you lot who want assault engineers get them and PROBLEM SOLVED! 

OH SNAP! Noob just gone and destroyed yall! BAHM!

I want to see doctrines. Can you show me where is it? Interesting how they named.

That should be it. :P
http://www.moddb.com/mods/coheastern-front/features/soviet-union-doctrines