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1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

Balance Discussion

#42261

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

I didn't tell AbhMkh he lost, as he's still making half-decent rebuttals.

AdmV0r... however is coming up with nothing new and is instead stamping his feet on the ground like a child and I'm not even going to respond to him again.
If you get into an argument with me, you're wrong.
#42264

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

Hmm.................. :-\ :-\



Lets close this roo chapter

Someone said

"Men of integrity are generally pretty obstinate, in adhering to an opinion once adopted. "


I finding This to be pretty true here..... :)
The sound of 17 pounder ap shells tearing down panzers

Is music to my ears!!
#42341

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

GodlikeDennis wrote:
I didn't tell AbhMkh he lost, as he's still making half-decent rebuttals.

AdmV0r... however is coming up with nothing new and is instead stamping his feet on the ground like a child and I'm not even going to respond to him again.


The stag = brits lose any ranged advantage they get. The only thing the stag is - is a potent midgame tool. AT weapons of various types kill it quickly enough that all is required is an atypical counter. Thus its not over powered.

Command tank, they get range but have no stag equal, and in exchange for range they lose a vehicle mid game bump the stag offers.

When pointed out to you, brits lose their ranged advantage in exchange for the stag, you claim its people stamping feet.

So, pointedly and specifically, either the stag is a potent platform, yet still killed easily by AT weapons and counters, or it loses some of that but returns the command function to the FF.

Nerfing the stag and doing nothing to correct the command issue simply robs the brits of the platform, makes the stag useless, and steals away the ranged ability they were always _supposed_ to have had.

Therefore, bluntly. Either give the stag the command function in exchange, OR leave it as a mid game potent. I have to say, this thread has been pathetic. 'Oh look, the officer can climb out and arty me, NERF THAT!' Oh look, the Kangeroo is potent' - Nerf that. Oh look, the stag comes out and kills a bunch of Inf - Nerf that, we cannot have that'.

Lets run through all the things that nerfing has done to the faction. The faction is screwed from the start - the bren was potent to counter that - Nerf. The brits had the best emplacement with range and suppression, Nerf it quick. The brits have too much mobility with those trucks, nerf that, stop the retreat, AND make them easy to kill if found moving. The FF and 17 Pounder are too potent, even though they are wiped out by decent inf, nerf them.

Having nerfed the hell out of the faction, TOV brought in the Kangeroo and stag which both provided punch all the previous nerfing killed off. And now true to form the Kangeroo and the stag have been nerfed again.

I don't need to say this, but nerfing has nothing to do with balance. Counters in game offer balance, not consistent nerfing of the base factions.

I've tolerated some abuse, including the language and idiot tagging, and thats all well and good. Anyone who things nerfing the stag is ok, but not correcting the command issue is wrong. The stag was potent for a reason, and it cost the brits ranged capability in taking that vehicle choice. It is not OP, it has a price, and a hefty one when a decent player realises the range issue in game. I'm not going to debate the point. I don't need to. And its good to see others who are wrong no matter how much they type otherwise in their own articles won't bother to write back now. 
#42342

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

GodlikeDennis wrote:


This argument is over. You've lost. Stop reusing the same failure arguments and actually try to come up with a good reason why kangs did not deserve the nerf. Oh wait... you can't for some reason...





It sounds pretty clear that you said he lost...
The Russians think there sooo tough, wait till the Ostheer comes...

Coh Name: Seeme
#42345

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

AdmV0rl0n wrote:
The stag = brits lose any ranged advantage they get. The only thing the stag is - is a potent midgame tool. AT weapons of various types kill it quickly enough that all is required is an atypical counter. Thus its not over powered.

Command tank, they get range but have no stag equal, and in exchange for range they lose a vehicle mid game bump the stag offers.

When pointed out to you, brits lose their ranged advantage in exchange for the stag, you claim its people stamping feet.

So, pointedly and specifically, either the stag is a potent platform, yet still killed easily by AT weapons and counters, or it loses some of that but returns the command function to the FF.

Nerfing the stag and doing nothing to correct the command issue simply robs the brits of the platform, makes the stag useless, and steals away the ranged ability they were always _supposed_ to have had.

Therefore, bluntly. Either give the stag the command function in exchange, OR leave it as a mid game potent. I have to say, this thread has been pathetic. 'Oh look, the officer can climb out and arty me, NERF THAT!' Oh look, the Kangeroo is potent' - Nerf that. Oh look, the stag comes out and kills a bunch of Inf - Nerf that, we cannot have that'.

Lets run through all the things that nerfing has done to the faction. The faction is screwed from the start - the bren was potent to counter that - Nerf. The brits had the best emplacement with range and suppression, Nerf it quick. The brits have too much mobility with those trucks, nerf that, stop the retreat, AND make them easy to kill if found moving. The FF and 17 Pounder are too potent, even though they are wiped out by decent inf, nerf them.

Nicelly said. US still has stickies and T-17 blinding shot, PE AT halftracks but Brit BRENs were nerfed. Wasnt US the most OP fraction of 2.601?

While I dont mind nerfing Kangaroos I do mind nerfing Stags. Stags have 450 HP becouse they cant get vet. Its like having only one type vet3 wehrmacht unit and all other at vet 0.
If someone tries to fight Staghounds (anti infatry vechicles) with shrecks he should expect looses.
Hate when people try to win using only PE shreck blob and when they are countered by well microed Cromwells and Stuart+canister shot flank, or AVRE, or miltiply Stags.
I also hate when people say that PAKs should win vs Stags.
PAKSs are not counters to Stags. Stugs, Ostwinds and tanks are. 1 thing that can be nerfed in Stags is the dmg multipier vs most PE vechicles. Right now its 2 (like a Stuart that is an important counter to midgame PE) but it should be 1.5.

P.S
Someone said that Fireflies have longer fireing range than Marders.
The truth is Fireflies have shorter fireing range, they reload slower, and do less dmg than Marders. They have better spoting range (tank commander only upgrades spotting range - not gun range). Cromwell CT also dosnt upgrade Fireflies gun range nor its sight range. It does slightly (at vet 0, more at vet 2) upgrade gun and sight range of all other tanks.
My Ostheer concept.

Last edited August 4, 2010 at 9:07 PM by Paciat

#42348

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

The Firefly has some interesting stats. I've just used Corsix's Mod Studio to have a look at the stats. For those who don't know them:

Range: 55 (compared to Marder: 60)
Accuracy: 0.85 at long, 1 at medium or lower (this is a bit better than Marder at medium/long)
Reload: 8.5 (nasty, but drops to 5.5 at long range. Still worse than Marder which is 4 at all ranges)
Damage: 125 (compared to Marder: 150)

The Command Tank gives bonuses of course, but I can't be bothered to check exactly what. The above stats are just for the guns, and don't take into account all the other odd little adjustments for target armour types.

@AdmV0rl0n - I think you make a decent point about the Stags and Fireflies. In fairness though, the Firefly still has a longer range than any other vehicle except I think the Marder. So against Wehrmacht there is still a range advantage (closest is Panther with 47.5). However, I think it's necessary to look deeper than individual units to find the problems with the Brits. The Kangaroo was OP, and I don't think the Bren Button inside vehicles was especially great either. Also, as a comment on the ultimate price of Kangaroos, you'll have infantry squads on the field anyway. So you aren't building them specially to go into the Kangaroos, and their cost doesn't really count, since they'll be capping and fighting until the Kangaroos are built.

As other people have said, the solution to a faction being UP in some areas is not for them to be OP in other areas. Could you highlight the weaknesses of the British faction please? I'd be interested to have your take on it (I don't play that much Brits).

Last edited August 4, 2010 at 8:53 PM by Wilson

#42350

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

Stags should replace the Stuart. I don't know who was the genius who decided to replace the command tank in CoH code.

Also it should have an ability as it's brother T-17 or the Stuart that should replace.
Mors Indecepta

Might controls everything, and without strength you cannot protect anything. Let alone yourself...
#42355

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

blackbishop wrote:
Stags should replace the Stuart. I don't know who was the genius who decided to replace the command tank in CoH code.

Also it should have an ability as it's brother T-17 or the Stuart that should replace.

If Stag was a replacement to Stuart than its HP should be nerfed. 300 HP (same as Stuart) is to low becouse it takes time to suppress infantry with an MG (unlike a canister shot) and UKs armor is weaker to shrecks than US. 350 (same as vet 1 T-17) would be fine. 
Quote
The Command Tank gives bonuses of course, but I can't be bothered to check exactly what. The above stats are just for the guns, and don't take into account all the other odd little adjustments for target armour types.

Heres CCT vet stats:
http://picly.us/coh/Veterancy_Cromwell_Command_Tank.html
My Ostheer concept.
#42357

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

If anyone is arguing that the Roo nerf was unjustified please uninstall and break your CoH disc.  They were/are the most broken unit in CoH's history without a doubt.
Forum post image
#42363

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

Wilson wrote:
The Firefly has some interesting stats. I've just used Corsix's Mod Studio to have a look at the stats. For those who don't know them:

Range: 55 (compared to Marder: 60)
Accuracy: 0.85 at long, 1 at medium or lower (this is a bit better than Marder at medium/long)
Reload: 8.5 (nasty, but drops to 5.5 at long range. Still worse than Marder which is 4 at all ranges)
Damage: 125 (compared to Marder: 150)

The Command Tank gives bonuses of course, but I can't be bothered to check exactly what. The above stats are just for the guns, and don't take into account all the other odd little adjustments for target armour types.

@AdmV0rl0n - I think you make a decent point about the Stags and Fireflies. In fairness though, the Firefly still has a longer range than any other vehicle except I think the Marder. So against Wehrmacht there is still a range advantage (closest is Panther with 47.5). However, I think it's necessary to look deeper than individual units to find the problems with the Brits. The Kangaroo was OP, and I don't think the Bren Button inside vehicles was especially great either. Also, as a comment on the ultimate price of Kangaroos, you'll have infantry squads on the field anyway. So you aren't building them specially to go into the Kangaroos, and their cost doesn't really count, since they'll be capping and fighting until the Kangaroos are built.

As other people have said, the solution to a faction being UP in some areas is not for them to be OP in other areas. Could you highlight the weaknesses of the British faction please? I'd be interested to have your take on it (I don't play that much Brits).


You should. They are almost always an interesting, and yet can be frustrating faction to try and play.

Comments on what you've said. Infantry on the field. Well two points, they won't have too many at 450 per squad. And secondly, capping with them is difficult. Unless you weaken the squad into a sniper squad, anytime they walk into none allied terrory, they slow and become utterly immobile. Capping slowly AND being so expensive must be a comically sick joke. Anyway, getting back on the point, brits if trying to upgrade will always find the 450 manpower per inf squad hard to swallow, and they will usually have to expend resource on upgrading rather than inf.

By this early stage, the Germans in game are already out capping brit.

Early game the brit has to choose LT or Bren. And if they go bren, the early thinking was to harry the enemy with its potent mobility. Having now cast away your ability to get an LT until your next 250 manpower, - the germans are still pumping Out PIOS or bumping to next level, they get two pio squads for less than an LT anyway. At this stage some idiot has decided to nerf the bren carrier.

Anyway, if you go LT, early game you are still being out capped, because one squad and an LT can't close the pop cap level of the germans on WER, - PE is a bit closer, but PE out run the brits early if they get vehicles up. And their squads are only 255, 200 less than a brit inf squad. Both PE and WER are capable of out pop production, capping, and soon out upgrading the brit. The brit has to be competitive in capping enough to dig in.

By now the brit is trying to gather enough for the sapper truck. If it can be got out, he'll still lack fuel for the stuart.
If he deviates from officers at any early stage in spending, he will limit his upgrades. And if he wastes too much time on Brens now, they leave him over exposed and behind on upgrades.

At this stage, the brit is normally forced to dig in because the germans should nominally be harrying his limited units, and doing so with vehicles, bikes and similar. Having got ahead with early units, the germans should be capping and recapping as required and with ease.

Unless the brit has had an easy ride, he will not have been able to gather 450 for a squad of inf, and will probably be waiting (depends on fuel) for sappers, stuart, or maybe the capt.

Either way, the brits by now are likely very out matched numbers wise, and will have had to dig in somewhere with 280 per emplacement costs. 

If the stuart can be gotten out early, it can harry the early german vehicles, half tracks, bikes and so on, and can blunt inf attacks. The stuart shot gun cart is nice, but you'll be hard pressed to find the ammo for it if you choose to upgun the now nerfed bren, which frankly was suppoed to be the original weapon for harrying and chasing down the german early game capping attempts.

If the game has devolved into an inf blobbing affair, the Germans should be out massing the brit anyway, and the first brit sniper squad is really seriously only combat ready in early game. Later game combat leaves them in poor shape.

Finally, the brit if he can scrape enough res from the game design of brit having less cap ability early game, he gets the final truck out. He'll probably at this stage not have got decent numbers of any particular troops or vehicles out.

A note on firefly's. Much has been said, but frankly FF's are no longer anything akin to what they should be. The 17 pounder is slow firing and with regular hilarity can't hit half the behicles, with Wer armoured cars being fantastically hard to hit. Its hopeless against AT, or in fact any inf, and against the late game tanks, it generally feels weak in most areas. Its also a 100 fuel, and beyond that, for all the talk of the stag, if someone buys into the stag, they just placed their FFs in a perenially poor game position where its no longer really anything more than average, and any tank combat in mid or close range is hilarious in general. So you tell me, would you now talk the weakend stag, or would you remove it and take the command tank.

I'm sure other players enjoy having pointless FFs being killed by Paks that are invisiible, while the FF misses, farts, and is generally crap as well as being nothing like the original awesome vehicle killer it was painted to be early on in COH.

Now, some players do inf blob with brits. And if you micro with LTs very well, it can be effective. But as far as I am concerned, both Wer and PE inf late game when vetted and kitted chew up brit inf. And frankly speaking the brit AT (sappers) is damaged in the same was as the INF in that they never offer capping ability because they will again become imobile in enemy territory.

The doctrines can sometimes help.
Eng doctrine may get you a churchill which in early and mid game does have bite. Not cheap and mental pop cap.
The arty doctrine makes the mortar pits powerful and on small maps can counter IMHO the bren nerfing. The 280 Per emplacement and a dent in head cap takkes some toll.

Airborne early game is harsh, because you either have to choose arty or the commandos, and each commando squad will be 560 or 510 post first glider.

The kangeroos - well here is my take. By mid game you may be able to make kangeroos. But I think only one or two.  Not because of their cost, but beecause everything else - especially inf costs limit the brit. And he'll have top throw the kangeroos in to fend off the growing ger armour.

Usually this might mean two sapper squads and an LT. If anyone can load it fully with 320 + 75 ammo+ LT + 125 ammo+ 450 + whatever for brens or grenades - then they have done well anyway.

I have never ever seen a kangeroo ever delivery the weight of fire from loaded crews. Ever. You can load up 3x sappers + 75+75+75 and you'll only ever see 2 piat shells coming out, and if you park too close, no fire at all. The inf fire was never impressive and never forces GER to be surpressed if you blew 450 on it. Even with all this, the brit has probably loaded up most or perhaps all of his capping ability into one vehicle. Even via raiding, this loss is not a one way deal.

Even so, this will deal with most armour. But its not a game winning deal. Mines and AT weapons take a toll, and I am sorry, I fail to see at this point a kangeroo being a vehicle of death doom.

Late game, more roo's perhaps? But if so, a question would be, have you been letting the brit blob? With high inf costs, and high replacement costs, there is no real excuse for having been letting the brit blob.

By this stage, panthers are on the field, and panthers cost less than loaded roos. And thats before we talk about fully kitted Ger inf, which has better all round At abilities than the brits have (FF, 17 Pounder, and sappers?)

The raw truth is come late game, any faction ahead is able to field vehicles and troops of doom. And the likely thing is the stronger side at that stage of the game is going to be the likely side to do it. But from my perspective, the brits early game costs and severe limits place them in a difficult position from the early point, and they should always be under severe capping pressure if the germans get things right. The whining about roos and stags is partially understandable, but any weapon system in game may need counters not blunting, and just because you have to find counters to the threats should not mean 'Nerf it'.

Anyone who can must 240+320+450 +75ammo+125ammo+ more ammo, and do so in several vehicles costing several times as much, is doing well. Someone said early that people will eject the crews before they die and retreat them. This is simple good play and not OP. But its rare that a kangeroo properly caught ejects all its crew and they get away with no losses. Each time the brits have the heaviest cost in replacements for any loss taken. 

In terms of the nerf of kangeroo, I've said in several places, I understand it, but not by itself. If you are going to nerf it, it has to be with some more general rebalances of the brits.
Post Merge: [time]1280966667[/time]

Paciat wrote:
blackbishop wrote:
Stags should replace the Stuart. I don't know who was the genius who decided to replace the command tank in CoH code.

Also it should have an ability as it's brother T-17 or the Stuart that should replace.

If Stag was a replacement to Stuart than its HP should be nerfed. 300 HP (same as Stuart) is to low becouse it takes time to suppress infantry with an MG (unlike a canister shot) and UKs armor is weaker to shrecks than US. 350 (same as vet 1 T-17) would be fine. 
Quote
The Command Tank gives bonuses of course, but I can't be bothered to check exactly what. The above stats are just for the guns, and don't take into account all the other odd little adjustments for target armour types.

Heres CCT vet stats:
http://picly.us/coh/Veterancy_Cromwell_Command_Tank.html


How is the stag a stuart replacement? Where are some of you heading with this? The stag comes out of the final brit upgrade, and has cost them 250 LT and 300 Captain, and 185 and 205 to get here, and you're saying all it should do is screw the brit range (cos you now have no command tank), get nerfed to being a stuart, and have its late game anti inf ability squashed.

That IS a 50cal gun mounted on it, and its meant to be meaty.

Hey, why don't you take the wheels off it too, and put a bren on top instead of the 50 cal.
Post Merge: [time]1280966826[/time]

Budwise wrote:
If anyone is arguing that the Roo nerf was unjustified please uninstall and break your CoH disc.  They were/are the most broken unit in CoH's history without a doubt.


Lets see if the change helps. I still suspect you and those like you will still be squeeling in 3 months time for more nerfs.

Last edited August 5, 2010 at 12:07 AM by AdmV0rl0n

#42367

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

@AdmV0rl0n

The Stuart and the Staghound have almost the same stats. I don't know what make you think that the latter is better than the former. And you will get the command tank and the staghound with -100HP, a worthy sacrifice... and you could stop crying about have to choose just one of them to use. Forget about where it comes, that's BS, the command tank should not be replaced because it's the only unit that benefits british tanks and allows them to perform better.

I don't want to discuss about most of the infantry that rides in the kangaroo is already deployed when you begin to construct those tanks because it's an endless loop.

Perhaps in future versions more fixes come to the british side, I'm looking forward, but looks like you aren't. Because you underestimate EF Team and believes that everything they do to the brits it's a nerf.

AdmV0rl0n wrote:
...
* Staghound MG Gunner is now in line with other MG Gunners.
(Not sure, Nerf?)
* Increase delay of Forward Observation Officers (FOO) from 2.0 to 2.75 seconds. (Nerf )
* PIAT accuracy vs infantry reduced. (Nerf, seems like a very one sided deal about now.. :/ )
* Sappers now has wire cutters. (Nerf, I blow up sand bags and barb with piats in needed, and you've robbed the sappers of the ambush)
* Bren Carrier now receives double damage while repairing. (Nerf, the bren already stops firing when repairing which was bad enough)
...


And besides you feel insulted, Budwise spoken the truth.

Budwise wrote:
If anyone is arguing that the Roo nerf was unjustified please uninstall and break your CoH disc.  They were/are the most broken unit in CoH's history without a doubt.

+1.

@Zerstörer
Thank you very much, for an unknown reason yesterday I didn't saw your post :D!!

While dreaming about the Stag replacing the Stuart, it could have an armored skirts-like-upgrade to give them +100HP or something like the phosphorus rounds to stun a tank(due the nerfing of the infantry section bren button), I think that suits better to the brits than US.
Mors Indecepta

Might controls everything, and without strength you cannot protect anything. Let alone yourself...
#42368

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

The Staghound would surely make more sense as a Stuart replacement. The only thing making it worthwhile was the broken .50 cal.

Lowering its health from 450 to 300 and it would be just about good to go I think.

Its drastic I know, but its obviously not suited for CCT replacement (never was), and it isn't worthwhile there anymore. Might be the only way to balance it.
#42391

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

The problem with brits is that they don't have many choices

And whatever choices they do have are being "balanced" by the "developers" and "balance experts"

"A thief is a thief whether he's trying to make a living or trying to earn some extra money"

note : do not take literally


Firefly was my favourite TD till now , but with the introduction of the comet i thhink the comet is better

In a 1 vs 1 match of marder vs FF , the FF always wins due to its armor and better penetration



Lets see whtever "balance" changes are made to the brits in the future ::)

The sound of 17 pounder ap shells tearing down panzers

Is music to my ears!!
#42395

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

blackbishop wrote:
@AdmV0rl0n

The Stuart and the Staghound have almost the same stats. I don't know what make you think that the latter is better than the former. And you will get the command tank and the staghound with -100HP, a worthy sacrifice... and you could stop crying about have to choose just one of them to use. Forget about where it comes, that's BS, the command tank should not be replaced because it's the only unit that benefits british tanks and allows them to perform better.

I don't want to discuss about most of the infantry that rides in the kangaroo is already deployed when you begin to construct those tanks because it's an endless loop.

Perhaps in future versions more fixes come to the british side, I'm looking forward, but looks like you aren't. Because you underestimate EF Team and believes that everything they do to the brits it's a nerf.

AdmV0rl0n wrote:
...
* Staghound MG Gunner is now in line with other MG Gunners.
(Not sure, Nerf?)
* Increase delay of Forward Observation Officers (FOO) from 2.0 to 2.75 seconds. (Nerf )
* PIAT accuracy vs infantry reduced. (Nerf, seems like a very one sided deal about now.. :/ )
* Sappers now has wire cutters. (Nerf, I blow up sand bags and barb with piats in needed, and you've robbed the sappers of the ambush)
* Bren Carrier now receives double damage while repairing. (Nerf, the bren already stops firing when repairing which was bad enough)
...


And besides you feel insulted, Budwise spoken the truth.

Budwise wrote:
If anyone is arguing that the Roo nerf was unjustified please uninstall and break your CoH disc.  They were/are the most broken unit in CoH's history without a doubt.

+1.

@Zerstörer
Thank you very much, for an unknown reason yesterday I didn't saw your post :D!!

While dreaming about the Stag replacing the Stuart, it could have an armored skirts-like-upgrade to give them +100HP or something like the phosphorus rounds to stun a tank(due the nerfing of the infantry section bren button), I think that suits better to the brits than US.


No, you don't want to discuss the infantry, which costs the brit faction a fortune, and will be lesser in number than other factions and have a crippled capping ability. Thats obvious from the start.
#42403

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

AdmV0rl0n wrote:

No, you don't want to discuss the infantry, which costs the brit faction a fortune, and will be lesser in number than other factions and have a crippled capping ability. That's obvious from the start.


Just wow, I can't be bothered quoting everything ignorant you have said, but this will do to convey my message.

Your statement is just stupendously ignorant and bias. You talk about all the cons and leave out the fact that Brit infantry have Soldier Armour and on top of that do good damage as well. SO GUESS WAT!!!!!  :o :o :o :o :o :o, they don't need to be super cheap and super fast cappers. Its called balance. SHOCK HORROR!!!!

AdmV0rl0n your just a winger, you point out all the negatives that hinder your linear play style and ignore the opinion of experienced players. I seriously suggest you step back for a second, read peoples posts twice, think about where they are coming from with their points, and take it in.

Lastly I suggest before you post you re-read it, think about what you are about to post, then highlight it, delete it, log off the forum and go put your hand under an iron to punish yourself for ever thinking you could contribute to an intellectual forum.

Peace

Last edited August 5, 2010 at 9:53 AM by Kinkas

#42404

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

AdmV0rl0n, just had myself a gander at your stats and lols were had. Play something other than brit skirmishes if you ever want to contribute to a balance forum again.
If you get into an argument with me, you're wrong.
#42408

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

Kinkas wrote:
AdmV0rl0n wrote:

No, you don't want to discuss the infantry, which costs the brit faction a fortune, and will be lesser in number than other factions and have a crippled capping ability. That's obvious from the start.

Just wow, I can't be bothered quoting everything ignorant you have said, but this will do to convey my message.

Your statement is just stupendously ignorant and bias. You talk about all the cons and leave out the fact that Brit infantry have Soldier Armour and on top of that do good damage as well. SO GUESS WAT!!!!!  :o :o :o :o :o :o, they don't need to be super cheap and super fast cappers. Its called balance. SHOCK HORROR!!!!

Noone said nothing about a capping unit like Pios or kettens.
Tommies dmg is worst than volks. What good dmg?

The fact is that UK has the lowest number of units on the field and cant outproduce axis untill Cromwells apear.
UK also cannot outcap any fraction.

Kinkas, you dont know what youre talking about.
Kinkas wrote:
Lastly I suggest before you post you re-read it, think about what you are about to post, then highlight it, delete it, log off the forum and go put your hand under an iron to punish yourself for ever thinking you could contribute to an intellectual forum.

Talking to youreself?
My Ostheer concept.
#42413

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

I'm pretty sure he's talking about brenned tommies, who provide immense dps. And Brits are obviously very map dependent with their capping ability.

This thread should end. A new thread should begin with the new proposed changes including moving the stag to be a stuart replacement while reducing it's health. But remember, no major rebalances are going to happen. Brits will be eternally broken due to factors we've already discussed to death Paciat. The best we can hope for is a reasonably balanced faction that's less map dependent than it currently is and has no glaring OP/UP units or abilities.
If you get into an argument with me, you're wrong.
#42414

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

The comet is a "tier 3 unit of doom" , it can destroy most german armor at "Standard Combat Ranges"


Dont you think so??
Post Merge: [time]1281008071[/time]

The comet is a "tier 3 unit of doom" , it can destroy most german armor at "Standard Combat Ranges"


Dont you think so??
The sound of 17 pounder ap shells tearing down panzers

Is music to my ears!!
#42423

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

Witty Paciat, you have devolved into schoolyard comebacks.... But I am flattered you see my comment fit to use against me.

The good damage comment was general and you made it specific to starting forces, if you had a brain you would understand late game British infantry are very strong. Maybe it was my fault for assuming we were all on beginner level intelligence and higher. Also British can't cap very fast but that doesn't mean that they won't have map control.

And once again you argue a bias one sided point to make it seem as if you are correct. Jesus Christ, if there is a problem explain it in its exact specific entirety. i.e I think that British infantry that have been vet stacked are to hard to kill for the amount of damage they output**. See how I didn't list every disadvantage and narrowed it down to an actual point of information. Its a basic way to explain and debate a point, which many people on this forum are incapable of doing.

As Dennis said this thread is basically over, say what you will, but I think this a issue best settled on the battlefield. If you feel up to it add Kinkasthered, its my EF testing account. I will be up for a game XD.

**THIS IS AN EXAMPLE, DO NOT TRY AND ARGUE THIS POINT AS IT IS AN EXAMPLE. IN NO WAY OR FORM DOES IT REPRESENT A VIEW OR OPINION, OR GIVE ENTITLEMENT TO DISCUSSION ON THE AM-MENTIONED POINT WHICH IS AN EXAMPLE.

Last edited August 5, 2010 at 12:07 PM by Kinkas

#42429

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

Kinkas wrote:
Witty Paciat, you have devolved into schoolyard comebacks.... But I am flattered you see my comment fit to use against me.

The good damage comment was general and you made it specific to starting forces, if you had a brain you would understand late game British infantry are very strong.Maybe it was my fault for assuming we were all on beginner level intelligence and higher. Also British can't cap very fast but that doesn't mean that they won't have map control.

300MP Vet 2 shreck squad beats a 450MP Tommy squad.
You are dumb if you dont understand that Wehrmacht is the strongest of all late game fractions.
PE MP44 dont care if they kill infantry or Soldiers armor and Commando Stens are weak vs anything but infantry armor.
Quote
And once again you argue a bias one sided point to make it seem as if you are correct. Jesus Christ, if there is a problem explain it in its exact specific entirety. i.e I think that British infantry that have been vet stacked are to hard to kill for the amount of damage they output**.

As Ive said before, Tommies have dmg than Volks. Understand now?
You cant expect that a Tommy squad with an LT - 730MP! - will die to a Volks squad. Thats why they have armor that is allmost as good as german elite type armor.
Just build youre blob or drop arti on them or place mines.
Wehrmacht has the most choices of all fractions while PE is the ultimate blob forming fraction.
Quote
See how I didn't list every disadvantage and narrowed it down to an actual point of information. Its a basic way to explain and debate a point, which many people on this forum are incapable of doing.

You didnt list nothing.
How about backing youre dumb comments with any stats.
Can you that?
Quote
As Dennis said...

The big German lover Dennis. At least he knows something (pretty much I must say).
His posts make sence.
My Ostheer concept.

Last edited August 5, 2010 at 12:58 PM by Paciat

#42430

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

GodlikeDennis wrote:
AdmV0rl0n, just had myself a gander at your stats and lols were had. Play something other than brit skirmishes if you ever want to contribute to a balance forum again.


Please, post my stats.
If you find someone else who knows the brits like I do, and maybe one day when you can compare, you can speak again.
Post Merge: [time]1281012621[/time]

Kinkas wrote:
AdmV0rl0n wrote:

No, you don't want to discuss the infantry, which costs the brit faction a fortune, and will be lesser in number than other factions and have a crippled capping ability. That's obvious from the start.


Just wow, I can't be bothered quoting everything ignorant you have said, but this will do to convey my message.

Your statement is just stupendously ignorant and bias. You talk about all the cons and leave out the fact that Brit infantry have Soldier Armour and on top of that do good damage as well. SO GUESS WAT!!!!!  :o :o :o :o :o :o, they don't need to be super cheap and super fast cappers. Its called balance. SHOCK HORROR!!!!

AdmV0rl0n your just a winger, you point out all the negatives that hinder your linear play style and ignore the opinion of experienced players. I seriously suggest you step back for a second, read peoples posts twice, think about where they are coming from with their points, and take it in.

Lastly I suggest before you post you re-read it, think about what you are about to post, then highlight it, delete it, log off the forum and go put your hand under an iron to punish yourself for ever thinking you could contribute to an intellectual forum.

Peace


Good damage against what? The only good damage the first squad do is in first contact. Period. And usually only if the sniper shot is used. This takes place in one contact area on the map. This equates to one capping point that is contested. In the mean time, All the PIO or Ketten ground being swallowed up continues.

The bren squad might do good damage, but guess what, wait 450 for that, and try to find the ammo for the bren, then walk it across enemy territory - which this supposed heavy squad do more slowly than any other squad in game.

You have no idea what you are talking about, and you posted your idiotic posting as part of some pathetic joke.

Last edited August 5, 2010 at 12:50 PM by AdmV0rl0n

#42433

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

@Kinkas beg me pardon, but your abusing behaviour dont belong to "an intellectual forum" as your own words are. Be constructive and when someone doesnt share your beliefs it doesnt mean he needs to "put his hand under an iron"! If im right this is a discussion and in this type of conversation every man can post freely what he has on his mind without being abused!
"There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt..."
#42438

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

Someone should lock this thread. This isn't a conversation anymore. Sorry, but this is a flaming/bitching- and a I-know-much-more-than-you thread.
Forum post image

An apple a day keeps the doctor away ;)

Last edited August 5, 2010 at 2:11 PM by GreenApple

#42441

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

Yes lock this thread
The sound of 17 pounder ap shells tearing down panzers

Is music to my ears!!
#42451

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

Listen up children...as the volks saying goes...

Play nice or this gets locked.

You want to make a balance argument, do it nicely. No personal attacks and no flaming.Debate the argument not the individual.

Also, no back sit moderating. If there is an issue, report it  and we'll deal with it if necessary.

These are simple rules follow, so please make sure you do
R.I.P MrScruff - A genuine Good Guy and great artist
R.I.P Loran Korn - A very brave and talented guy
RAP NEWS http://thejuicemedia.com/?ref=nf
#42469

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

whats "back sit moderating" ? and how is it done?

Edit:and stick to the subject!
The sound of 17 pounder ap shells tearing down panzers

Is music to my ears!!

Last edited August 5, 2010 at 8:05 PM by Zerstörer

#42520

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

AdmV0rl0n wrote:
GodlikeDennis wrote:
AdmV0rl0n, just had myself a gander at your stats and lols were had. Play something other than brit skirmishes if you ever want to contribute to a balance forum again.


Please, post my stats.
If you find someone else who knows the brits like I do, and maybe one day when you can compare, you can speak again.



Alright I will.

~400 basic matches as Brits
~400 skirmishes as Brits
A few allies 2v2s, no doubt as Brits
A couple games as the other factions.

Clearly you have a massive bias towards the Brits, and almost never play against them. About 50% of your games are skirmishes which erodes your position further and you practically never play 1v1 Automatch which is recognised as the main game type that facilitates balancing. As I've said many times thus far, you can't have any impartial argument because of your biased position.

I have personally reached position 60 in Brit 1v1 Automatches without trying for a lengthy period of time, and without kangs or Bren-in-Bren. I've also probably played far more basic matches as them than I can count but these don't matter because they're basic matches. I believe this particular account (GodlikeDennis) is 23-3 in Brit 1v1 Automatches. I would say a comparison between you and I is fairly one sided in the experience department.

Paciat wrote:
Quote
As Dennis said...

The big German lover Dennis. At least he knows something (pretty much I must say).
His posts make sence.


This is untrue, but you are entitled to your opinion. I play all factions equally. This is the pot calling the kettle black, Paciat, as you yourself are quite Brit biased. I don't mind debating with you though.

You are discussing tommies vs grens in a vaccuum. The Brit blob will have FOO and other arty support to kill an enemy blob arrayed against it. Bren guns are strong against even elite armour grens and the vet stacking is a big problem that I wish were fixed. This isn't to say that I disagree that Wehrmacht doesn't have the strongest troops endgame but that Brits have more factors that can even the odds than Wehrmacht.

Brens also come far earlier than Wehr endgame, obviously. It's similar to getting BARs before Wehr has vet 2, it makes the infantry fighting somewhat one sided. Only good use of the MGs can let the Wehr player match an allied faction at this stage.

Commandos weren't mentioned for a reason. I'm sure you and I both agree that they don't scale at all.

I think you and Kinkas should duke it out ingame rather than here.

This thread has run it's useful life. You should just close it now Zerst.
If you get into an argument with me, you're wrong.
#42526

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

I'll just watch and looooooool
The sound of 17 pounder ap shells tearing down panzers

Is music to my ears!!
#42533

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

Quote
300MP Vet 2 shreck squad beats a 450MP Tommy squad.
You are dumb if you dont understand that Wehrmacht is the strongest of all late game fractions.
PE MP44 dont care if they kill infantry or Soldiers armor and Commando Stens are weak vs anything but infantry armor.


If the Grens get a shrek the tommies get bren guns and if the grens get vet, the tommies get a lieutenant. It’s illogical to compare two different things that have different costs. As I said earlier and repeat for the third time, you are posting bias information just to support your belief. And once again repeating for you benefit, I said a general statement using a general work “good” not “the best’ or “excellent” or “the worst” or “crap”. Your picking at straws.

Quote
As Ive said before, Tommies have dmg than Volks. Understand now?
You cant expect that a Tommy squad with an LT - 730MP! - will die to a Volks squad. Thats why they have armor that is allmost as good as german elite type armor.
Just build youre blob or drop arti on them or place mines.
Wehrmacht has the most choices of all fractions while PE is the ultimate blob forming fraction.
You didnt list nothing.
How about backing youre dumb comments with any stats.
Can you that?


Wow man, I left this huge disclaimer at the end of that saying that it was a pure example to avoid this exact situation, it was the first idea that came to mind from a topic I had recently read. And please read that part of my post again, the purpose of that was to NOT list something but bring light to making an argument relevant and to the point. Seriously read what I said, before the flaming me. I admit the previous post was just an outburst, but it was something that needs to be said. Read someone’s post twice if it seems outrageous and try to find a sensible meaning to it. It annoys me so much, how people just take stats and comments out of context to prove a point which is strategy problem not a balance issue.

Quote
Good damage against what? The only good damage the first squad do is in first contact. Period. And usually only if the sniper shot is used. This takes place in one contact area on the map. This equates to one capping point that is contested. In the mean time, All the PIO or Ketten ground being swallowed up continues.

The bren squad might do good damage, but guess what, wait 450 for that, and try to find the ammo for the bren, then walk it across enemy territory - which this supposed heavy squad do more slowly than any other squad in game.

You have no idea what you are talking about, and you posted your idiotic posting as part of some pathetic joke.


Actually I personally find it quite easy to find the munitions for a bren squad I am assuming we are talking (early-midgame), for many upgraded squads I must say. I also use the lieutenant to help them move around the map as well as moving my trucks a fair way up to provide less of a distance traveled. I believe your problem is related to your game style more than a balance issue. Try watching some replays of the really high end Brit players and watch out specifically how they solve your predicament. And dude, from what I read of yourself, I think the same thing. Thus the outburst, you seem to ignore valuable comments from the more experienced players. Constructively I really do suggest you look at a different strategy.

Quote
@Kinkas beg me pardon, but your abusing behaviour dont belong to "an intellectual forum" as your own words are. Be constructive and when someone doesnt share your beliefs it doesnt mean he needs to "put his hand under an iron"! If im right this is a discussion and in this type of conversation every man can post freely what he has on his mind without being abused!


Actually in self defense, the post was aimed at a how you construct a post not on a personal opinion on a post. I used an example of a post, on how he used it for bias. It’s actually impossible to critise anyone on a forum without out them bursting out. So why stop at constructive criticism? Yes it was crude, but it’s nothing short of what needs to be said. If for one second he just stands back reads his post and go, “ok this is why they call me a Brit-Fanboy”. “This is why they call me stupid.” It’s because he is omitting relevant information.  And seriously I added a huge obnoxious in your face way of saying something was not my opinion and someone still commented on it. So yes they need to be told, they need to stop taking things out of context, and my previous post proves they do. Everything I say in this post particular post is constructive. But I assure you, not one of them will take it in their stride, they will defend themselves by attacking me. Because to them this is not a discussion, it is a defense of themselves. I do apoligise for the iron comment as it is uncalled for, though I stand by my point that they keep using bias information and wonder why people call them stupid or a fan-boy. I actually would like to see Paciat and AdmV0rl0n in a lot of discussions, but not when you just pull things out of context for the sake of having to be right.

I also understand this post was not all on topic of balance. But his was needed to clear the air as to the point of my comments and to provide it in a less defamatory way to the people I originally critisied.

And yes my throwing down of the gauntlet still applies if you wish to show me ingame the errors of my logic  ;D

Last edited August 6, 2010 at 6:25 AM by Kinkas

#42538

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

GodlikeDennis wrote:
You are discussing tommies vs grens in a vaccuum. The Brit blob will have FOO and other arty support to kill an enemy blob arrayed against it. Bren guns are strong against even elite armour grens and the vet stacking is a big problem that I wish were fixed. This isn't to say that I disagree that Wehrmacht doesn't have the strongest troops endgame but that Brits have more factors that can even the odds than Wehrmacht.

Brens also come far earlier than Wehr endgame, obviously. It's similar to getting BARs before Wehr has vet 2, it makes the infantry fighting somewhat one sided. Only good use of the MGs can let the Wehr player match an allied faction at this stage.

BRENs are weaker than lets say BARs and have no suppresion. I would rather compare BRENs (its firepower) to MP40 than to LMG42.

The truth is Wechrmacht needs to be defensive at early stage of the game but UK player needs to do a lot of things with only few of his units.

...Im not saing that you cant play UK Dennis, Im saing that you want German being stronger than allies both in early and late game.
My Ostheer concept.
#42542

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

I'm not going to argue brens vs MP40s with you again but you're certainly downplaying the bren's power.

Ideally I'd like all factions to be equally powerful at EVERY stage of the game.
If you get into an argument with me, you're wrong.
#42551

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

GodlikeDennis wrote:
I'm not going to argue brens vs MP40s with you again but you're certainly downplaying the bren's power.

I know that you know that MP40 have slightly better short and medium range accuracy while doing the same dmg. Only the more accurate long range fire (both BRENs and Endfields) and their thicker skin saves Tommies expensive asses.
My Ostheer concept.

Last edited August 6, 2010 at 10:25 PM by Paciat

#42557

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

I see a lot of Brit-biased noobs talking about balance here.  I hope the devs don't listen to these guys.  I'll bet most of them aren't even ranked; yet they talk the most on these boards.  I am especially looking at, but not limited to, the noob fanboy AbhMkh.

I will not waste my time explaining why I presume they are noob etc; it shouldn't be that hard to realize, judging from all the garbage written here.  I'm not going to respond to any of them, so don't waste your breathes, just wanted to get my notion out there.  That is all.

Devs, before you ban this post for flaming, please understand that it is impossible to reason / talk balance with ignorant noobs, hence there is no reasoning in my post, just the hard facts about who is talking with nonsense and needs to stop posting on the balance boards.

On a side note: The Maurder really does need a faster rotation speed, and better vehicle pathing, and perhaps the T3 upgrade to unlock it could cost a little less, since a fast Soviet Sherman or a T70 could potentially end the game right away if you don't have at least 2 of them.

Last edited August 7, 2010 at 12:38 AM by Chancellor

#42566

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

Lol chancellor, I traveled your path a few posts back hahah, its a no through road basically.

But on the point of the Maurder I agree with you 100% about the rotation speed, but as to how fast you unlock it I am not so sure. It takes a lot more fuel for the Russians to get a stock standard tank and the summon in Sherman leaves much to be desired. Also if you decrease its time to be deployed into a match, it could have great consequences on both American and Brit balance with their lighter vehicles.

I suggest however the increase in rotation and a decrease in build time possibly to help match the rapid deployment of allied tanks.

Thoughts?
#42570

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

GodlikeDennis wrote:
AdmV0rl0n wrote:
GodlikeDennis wrote:
AdmV0rl0n, just had myself a gander at your stats and lols were had. Play something other than brit skirmishes if you ever want to contribute to a balance forum again.


Please, post my stats.
If you find someone else who knows the brits like I do, and maybe one day when you can compare, you can speak again.



Alright I will.

~400 basic matches as Brits
~400 skirmishes as Brits
A few allies 2v2s, no doubt as Brits
A couple games as the other factions.

Clearly you have a massive bias towards the Brits, and almost never play against them. About 50% of your games are skirmishes which erodes your position further and you practically never play 1v1 Automatch which is recognised as the main game type that facilitates balancing. As I've said many times thus far, you can't have any impartial argument because of your biased position.

I have personally reached position 60 in Brit 1v1 Automatches without trying for a lengthy period of time, and without kangs or Bren-in-Bren. I've also probably played far more basic matches as them than I can count but these don't matter because they're basic matches. I believe this particular account (GodlikeDennis) is 23-3 in Brit 1v1 Automatches. I would say a comparison between you and I is fairly one sided in the experience department.

Paciat wrote:
Quote
As Dennis said...

The big German lover Dennis. At least he knows something (pretty much I must say).
His posts make sence.


This is untrue, but you are entitled to your opinion. I play all factions equally. This is the pot calling the kettle black, Paciat, as you yourself are quite Brit biased. I don't mind debating with you though.

You are discussing tommies vs grens in a vaccuum. The Brit blob will have FOO and other arty support to kill an enemy blob arrayed against it. Bren guns are strong against even elite armour grens and the vet stacking is a big problem that I wish were fixed. This isn't to say that I disagree that Wehrmacht doesn't have the strongest troops endgame but that Brits have more factors that can even the odds than Wehrmacht.

Brens also come far earlier than Wehr endgame, obviously. It's similar to getting BARs before Wehr has vet 2, it makes the infantry fighting somewhat one sided. Only good use of the MGs can let the Wehr player match an allied faction at this stage.

Commandos weren't mentioned for a reason. I'm sure you and I both agree that they don't scale at all.

I think you and Kinkas should duke it out ingame rather than here.

This thread has run it's useful life. You should just close it now Zerst.


When I said post my stats, I did not say post a version of my stats so that you can play the idiot while blatantly lying, for no valid reason. Next time, - as with this thread, post the full story. I'm not bothering with every stat, but here:
Won 991 Games.
Lost 881 Games.

Shall we add your inability to count to your other failings, or would that be too harsh? I think you'll find people who have played the game closing in on 2000 times knowedgable enough to express opinions.






#42572

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

Chancellor my friend i wont reply to your post , because it would be getting indecent at this point , nevertheless i would appreciate, you , maintaining a control over what you say and who do you call a noob , i'd rather not call you one , savvy?

note : Most of the players on this forum started playing COH since the release of COHOF , because that is when COH became popular........
The sound of 17 pounder ap shells tearing down panzers

Is music to my ears!!
#42577

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

@AdmV0rl0n

You should calm down, even if you have 5000 matches, if you mostly play with one faction, any argument can be considered "biased".

Of course you will find people that played CoH a lot and hence share it's opinion. Everyone is encouraged to do it. But there are limits about what a person can do. The differences between that "expert people" and you are:

1) You are clearly biased and don't accept any argument besides yours as true.

2) I have no doubt that you have knowledge about brits, but do you have experience with the other factions to judge about what can be improved to Brits without break havoc?

3) Sometimes the common sense helps to deal with balance even if you haven't played a thousand matches.

So how many matches do you played without brits? Do you think this type of knowedge will help to improve them?

I'm no expert, not near to be one, but the kangaroo was OP and was fixed; the staghound mg was bugged and was fixed, and many others that you listed in your first post were accurate. I'm not against brits, in fact I like them as all the other factions in CoH. Sure they need a lot of tweaks but the kangaroo is fine as in 1.21.

I thought that the MuniHT ability to reinforce will be causing more disapointment than the kang nerf, we almost reach 7 pages discussing the same nonsense arguments. In conclusion, those changes were needed, if you don't like it you have several choices:

a) Continue playing besides this, you'll adapt to this soon, I'm sure.

b) Stop playing EF and return to CoH or others mods.

c) Modify the kangaroo and cia. stats to make them as before, but you won't be able to play with anyone else besides skirmishes.

d) Write on this thread and many others about your balance ideas until Devs implement them.

But whatever you do isn't gonna make difference between the changes already implemented and those that will occur in a near future.

@AbhMkh

You are quite right ;D... I began with COH but my graphic card at that time, radeon 9250, wasn't enough, i couldn't saw the units deployed(were invisible), so I quit; by the time that ToV was released I bought a new PC, and bought OF because I hear of it more than ToV.
Mors Indecepta

Might controls everything, and without strength you cannot protect anything. Let alone yourself...
#42579

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

Quote
When I said post my stats, I did not say post a version of my stats so that you can play the idiot while blatantly lying, for no valid reason. Next time, - as with this thread, post the full story. I'm not bothering with every stat, but here:
Won 991 Games.
Lost 881 Games.

Shall we add your inability to count to your other failings, or would that be too harsh? I think you'll find people who have played the game closing in on 2000 times knowledgeable enough to express opinions.


LOL, you actually think 991 for 881 ~ KD of 1.12 is good. Dennis did you a favor and only listed you games played. Not your extremely average game score. Just because you play a lot doesn't mean you are any good. For instance I would take choose a partner 10 for 2 in auto matches over you. Fair be it, it might be a testing account, but still nothing to go posting on a forum to show off about.

If you think you are so wonderful and are the epitome of experience come vs. me (add me KinkastheRed).... But no of course you will not. Dennis has challenged me already; maybe we could make this interesting and get Paciat in as well? In reality your spurting theory about a game, we have the ability to play the game, so lets put these theories into action. Win or lose it will be fun.

So AdmV0rl0n this is your chance to play axis and show us that you obtain a wealth of experience from all factions. If you choose not to play I really can't see how anyone here can actually take you seriously again.... If they ever did.... You dug yourself a grave here buddy, by a year 1 level maths analysis Dennis still flogs your hide in experience and overall equality of game time between each faction. So stand by your inferior stats or prove to us your better than people think.
#42593

Re: 1.20 and 1.21 Observation about brit changes

I think I was quite clear about NOT attacking each other  gents and only attacking the argument :(

It is a balance forum and everyone has an opinion, be they new or experienced players. The problem is few people actually listen to the argument and get something out of it...and we're all guilty of that from time to time.

Making a discussion doesn't have to devolve to personal attacks to make a point. In fact any valid point is usually lost amidst all these keyboard fights. Learn to debate propertly

Someone playing the last 4 yrs with US can be a great player and have great stats with it, however his views will always be bias and lacking a balanced view of the factions. If you don't play all the factions to the same degree roughly you're unlikely to ever see the points of the other side.

Its one of the things that separates 'experts' from the rest...along with their gaming ability of course and invariably stupendously good micro.

Newer players should always listen a bit more to the better players cause that's the way to get better.

Now, as this has devolved into a pissing contest and the thread is no longer salvageable unless I delete half your posts, its locked. Lesson learnt for any future ones, I hope!

Cheers!

R.I.P MrScruff - A genuine Good Guy and great artist
R.I.P Loran Korn - A very brave and talented guy
RAP NEWS http://thejuicemedia.com/?ref=nf

Last edited August 7, 2010 at 8:56 AM by Zerstörer