PE vs Russians

This is a thread for all my fellow PE players. Post any good and bad strategies here, PE has been on the rise in power recently because of our determination to perfect them, now we have a new enemy we can work together and perfect our strategies.

My personal fav is this:

-3-4 Squads of G43s (Get them to 4 man squads ASAP)
    -Vet them to Vet 3 Offensive
-1 squad of MP44s
    -Vet them to Vet 3 Defensively
-Use Hetzers ONLY when  nessessary
-Get Panthers ASAP
-Use the TD Doctrine
-Use Marders wisely AND SUPPORTED, move them with Panthers and keep them at a safe distance behind them
(They tend to rip apart T34s and IS2s)
-JagdPanther is a great late game option too

I don't want be nit-picker but 4 topics lower is the same topic mate :) you even contributed to that one. IMO it is better to have every ideas in one group so other players will find them at one spot.

And to your strat: going Logistik kompanie (tier1) will delay your tech to 2x Panthers. 4men are good but T1 is not necessary for Panthers tech. I found better to have 2xPanthers ASAP than to have 4men. Vs early russian infantry (conscripts or not-vetted strelky) also 3men are fine, but necessary G43 and/or MP44. Only problem is command squad with its annoying mortar barrage - G43 with volley fire is solution, if engaged russian commnder: destroy by all means! He's 350MP worth and so hard to kill.

going for panthers asap is a fail in itself imo, Ive been playing alot of PanzerElite its my favorite faction ofcourse i don't know what kind of match you are useing that "asap panther strat" for. In case your thinking about 1v1 i would say don't even bother for a 2x panthers. i would say keep a 2x building combination the whole game, if you have a descent micro theres plenty of coice off very usable units.

DrCashpor wrote:
going for panthers asap is a fail in itself imo, Ive been playing alot of PanzerElite its my favorite faction ofcourse i don't know what kind of match you are useing that "asap panther strat" for. In case your thinking about 1v1 i would say don't even bother for a 2x panthers. i would say keep a 2x building combination the whole game, if you have a descent micro theres plenty of coice off very usable units.

Going for Panthers I meant researching those 3 upgrades with highest priority: panzerschrecks, MarderIII and PzIV. Of course you have to watch what is Russian player doing, but it is the same when you play PE vs Brit or US. I'm not saying that you do nothing and just make it for Panthers. I'm saying that research those exact upgrades I'm allowed to pull also Panzerschreck PGs or MarderIII if necessary and I'm still close to Panthers if I need them.

In fast 1vs1 games it happenes that T2-T3 or T2-T4 is sufficient too. I don't go T1-Logistik vs Russian, but I was thinking of using Scout cars+Ketten with repair ability (tank busters doctr.) maybe I will try it next time. Also Vampire with Goliath could be usefull vs blobs of infantry. The problem with T1 is that vs Brit it is almost useless and vs US I use only 4men upgrd. and/or Vampire, Scout cars just suck vs US Rifles or Brit Tommies. But vs Conscripts they actually might work.... :) I just haven't tried it yet since I'm used to my build order from US/Brit games.

Lol Wordsmith, where do you think I got the idea, I liked the guy's points made. But anyway man, I think 4 man squads are crucial for PE because the 3 man squads die too fast vs snipers, I mean, having just 2 men on the frontlines makes me nervous, so if 1 guy dies it makes me uncomfortable, and yes it does delay the ability to get panthers real quick, but early game is very important, because once the "Frontlines" are established they tend to stay the same, and holding the fuel points is a primary objective for all, and 4 man squads just seem to do it for me

ThGermanElite wrote:
Lol Wordsmith, where do you think I got the idea, I liked the guy's points made. But anyway man, I think 4 man squads are crucial for PE because the 3 man squads die too fast vs snipers, I mean, having just 2 men on the frontlines makes me nervous, so if 1 guy dies it makes me uncomfortable, and yes it does delay the ability to get panthers real quick, but early game is very important, because once the "Frontlines" are established they tend to stay the same, and holding the fuel points is a primary objective for all, and 4 man squads just seem to do it for me

:) That is why I recommend T2-IHT, you can replenish 3rd man right on place and move inside the IHT and hunt those snipers. Not to mention the suppressing fire of MG - PE doesn't have any suppressing MG like MG42, just IHT or Wirbelwind which is doctrinal. But yes you have a point, 4men are better also because firepower is 33% more.

if the map is a decent size, say semois, the armored car is a great unit to bring out to protect territory. Usually the 4th pg will build the logistics center. The ac is incredible against consripts and ingenery, especially those annoying near death 2 man squads capping all your crap. Also around the beginning of mid game or when anti tank squads appear, it can be used to secure resources. Also dont forget to get increased squad sizes to justify the purchase of logistics center.

theplay wrote:...especially those annoying near death 2 man squads capping all your crap...

Glad I'm not the only one infected with those!

I find panzer IV is the best thing to deal with the infantry blobs especially since the AT rifle squad cant hurt them much.

In the v1.2 patch or somewhere around that, when I played PE, I did not need Panthers. I just went full PE infantry with schreckers and MP44s. Maybe one or two G43s in case I met something that really needed to die.

Of course, this advice might be outdated.

Last few days I played some games 1vs1 but 500VP games (not Annihilate and normal resources) and only very few times I was able to get to Panthers. Most of the time the game is solved by infantry and by quick armors - which Panthers are not.

I realized that what is important is get Tier3 (Panzer-Jager K.) as fast as possible, and it doesn't matter as so much if from T1 or T2. T3 gives you 3 things very deadly to Russians: MP44, MarderIII and ACs (in this particular order). Those are must otherwise you're finished. T1 is good for 4men squads and for Vampire-Goliath. T2 is good because IHT and possible schrecks if you fail to get Marder fast.

Going T4 is not as good as T3 vs Rus, because ATHT is very weak vs T34. I didn't compared range of T34 and ATHT but I have feeling that it is same. Because when fighting Sherman, I just break its legs and then retreat a bit and Sherman could not reach me and I kite it with ATHT. With T34 the T34 always shot back even from what I thought is a safe distance.

In much sense the game vs Russian is similar to play US player - you need to focus on keeping units together, get MP44 fast, deny territory and cap with Ketten. It differs on use of AC because this thing is good vs US rifles but it's pretty weak vs Russian PTRD AT infantry. And as AT unit don't use the ATHT but MarderIII.

So in conclusion the general rules could be:

- if you see Rus making only conscripts for longer time the chances are he's going for fast Tank Hall - expect fast T90 ot T34 if you failed to deny fuel - you can make an AC and try to hurt those Consripts fast or try to raid his base with those, maybe you catch him just building a tank hall - otherwise focus on getting Marder fast (or Schrecks if you are short of fuel)

- if you see snipers/mortars/PTRD he used 50fuel for support barracks - dont bother with AC and tech to MarderIII, build more PGs with MP44 fast

- get MP44 fast and deny territory with those, use with combination of some G43

- use PGs to fight infantry and Marders behind to kite vehicles

- keep the whole panzergruppe together and slowly gain map control

- later when enough fuel build T4 and ATHT (for threadbraker) or just fast PzIV and raid his base with it

- as fights are very infantry intensive from begin of match vs Rus you will need "Defensive ops" (healing) upgrade really fast (1st upgrade I make) and also later "Field craft" so I can cap faster with PGs (also one more reason for T2)

- as for doctrines, I'm "Scorched earth" player (booby traps everywhere) but also "Luftwaffe" is quite good with Wirbelwind and LGF for advanced repair of Marders, Tank hunters are strong only in late game and Hetzer dies really quickly to T34

Last edited April 14, 2010 at 11:31 PM by wordsmith

make plenty of grenadiers

get marders as soon as you can, but use them carefully.

get Hetzers, get them together, and use them carefully. use them like tank destroyers, not tanks.

save up for the Jagdpanther.

make sure to have plenty of grenadiers to support your tanks.

Hold off the enemy attacks long enought to get a good enough attack force of Panthers

Versedhorison wrote:
I find panzer IV is the best thing to deal with the infantry blobs especially since the AT rifle squad cant hurt them much.

Have you been playing against AI soviets or do you not pay attention much? The level three PTRD anti tank squads can nearly destroy and tank, always do damage, and can penetrate even frontal armour. Not even m-26 pershings, sherman firefly's, or whatever the soviets use as heavy tanks can compare to the effectiveness of a ptrd squad!

Actually, half the PRTD shots will do absolutely nothing if the P4 IST has armour skirts. They do little damage anyway. The threat is AT nades because the P4 is such an up close and personal tank. And of course you can't lock down with the risk of AT nades about.

Griptonix wrote:

Versedhorison wrote:
I find panzer IV is the best thing to deal with the infantry blobs especially since the AT rifle squad cant hurt them much.

Have you been playing against AI soviets or do you not pay attention much? The level three PTRD anti tank squads can nearly destroy and tank, always do damage, and can penetrate even frontal armour. Not even m-26 pershings, sherman firefly's, or whatever the soviets use as heavy tanks can compare to the effectiveness of a ptrd squad!

A panzer IV plus your panzer grenadiers in support will kill AT rifle squads before they do too much damage.

Right now the T90 will beat just about anything PE has.  Build 2 T90's and a SU85 and its gg.

That's funny because I find it easy to take down the Soviets with the PE if the Soviet goes for armor rather than support. The support barracks is the PE player's worst enemy!

Actually I would say PE is screwed either way. PE has always been bad against early light vehicles and the PRTDs rip through the lighter PE vehicles like crazy. AT guns 2 hit their light vehicles at insane ranges as well and snipers are good against smaller PE squads. None of the PE vehicles can stand up to an SU-85. Also, if PE is forced off the map by early conscript spam it's bye bye fuel, gg.

Scouts cars though, are effective against russians as is a heavy T2. Falls obliterate too if you can hold on long enough.

Mortars and AT Guns are especially annoying when you play as Luftwaffe and you make Flaks. Otherwise, I think Luftwaffe with T1+T3 is great vs. the Soviets.

Honestly, I think the AT gun has too much range but maybe that's just me. I actually think as luft I would go T2-T3 but this might be because I would go falls first rather than ground infantry so I would be slow at repairing scout cars. It also puts me on a better path for panthers in a long game and I wouldn't really bother with 4 man squads because I would have falls. I would use T3 for the armoured cars and marders, eventually turning them over for 88s and panthers. Shreks from T2 would protect the marders from circle-strafing. Early-mid game is where PE stuggles though. If you can get past that you should do fine.

I can absolutely roll right over NosliwReborn with Russians against his PE.  Hes lvl 15 PE 1v1 and lvl 20 2v2AT with double PE.  This is on the pre-release of 1.2 though or I would happily show you first hand.  ;D

My experience maybe unique, I play against the russians as the PE with no human allies, this can make the AI of the game very difficult, I tend to play only hard or expert CPU enemies, the one thing I have found that makes you survive "the red tide", (the AI spams infantry -> support -> tanks) is to build to the kampfgruppe kompanie -> panzerjager kommand, this will tgive you a mobile force that can 'put out' russain fires around the map, since if you have normal resources you cannot got scortched earth to block the enemy advances, the formula I have found is 4 PG w/ sg44, two IHT than two moraders, once the moraders are in the field, change one of the sg44 troops in each IHT to TBG, giving your mobile force an ablity to deal with lighter armor while you wait for your moraders to catch up. once there I normally go tank destroyer, using the hetzer and Jagdpanter in force w/ teller mines covering the bridges if I don't have enough munitions later to blow up the bridges with the funkwagon. once that is made you have your hetzers be slowly replaced with panters as you can call them in. good luck!

A nice suggestion but we are discussing true balance. You mention both a compstomp and bridge map in your post which unfortunately makes it a little useless. PE just aren't too good right now. IHTs are quite pathetic, usually just used as a reinforce platform or mobile tank hunter. Marders are even worse, being able to be circle-strafed and killed by just about anything with ease. Hetzers also suck. Shreks in IHTs are actually the best AT PE has until panthers or 88s in my opinion.

We're hitting a few things with the nerf bat to even up the odds thanks to the Reborn guys  :)

Budwise wrote:
Right now the T90 will beat just about anything PE has.  Build 2 T90's and a SU85 and its gg.

You probably meant T70 - not T90. T70 is much cheaper than a Stuart. Its armor is also better vs Shrecks than Stuarts.

T70 needs a gun nerf vs PE.

I dunno if that's what he meant. T-90s are also extremely good vs halftracks and armoured cars, as well as the infantry obviously.

Paciat wrote:

Budwise wrote:
Right now the T90 will beat just about anything PE has.  Build 2 T90's and a SU85 and its gg.

You probably meant T70 - not T90. T70 is much cheaper than a Stuart. Its armor is also better vs Shrecks than Stuarts.

T70 needs a gun nerf vs PE.

I'm pretty sure he means T-90. I watched those broadcasts where he just raped everything the PE was able to put on the field with T-90's.

yea, i meant T90.  AC's and HT's melt against them.  Like previously said, it has been noted and fixed since that broadcast.

At the moment im not sure I would ever build a T70 against PE.

Obviously it depends on the map what doctrine I'll use and what kind of tactics I'm going to use but my strategy usually depends on denying the Russians fuel, capping munition points, and keeping my forces mobile. My goal is to keep the game to an infantry fight for the majority of the time where the PE's infantry and mobility can show in full. I'll often set up a reinforce/healing point with some kind of turret, infantry reserve or Marder IIIs to provide some kind of defense in depth.

Games are rarely the ideal however, so I will often tech up to Panthers in lieu of reinforcing my front line troops to deal with whatever armor or heavy defenses I'll likely run into. In the mean time relying on Marder IIIs and air-support to deal with their armor.

Has anyone tried going pure-infantry at the Sovs? Last time I played (LONG time ago), that worked beautifully with some halftrack support. I don´t know if Marders and Panthers are really THAT necessary.

Saavedra wrote:
Has anyone tried going pure-infantry at the Sovs? Last time I played (LONG time ago), that worked beautifully with some halftrack support. I don´t know if Marders and Panthers are really THAT necessary.

Marders are easy to flank by T-34 and even T-70. Never build a Marder if you cant afford a second one. They should be 20-40 COH units away from each other.

MP44 blob is usually my choice vs any army. I allways get logistic companie + 4 man squads first (fire nades if I see trenches). +33% of squads HP and +33% of firepower.

I like AT nades and Advanced Repair upgrades. Theres nothing worst than get hit by a mortar round while repairing. PGs need to repair quick.
Panthers arent really THAT necessary but when youre enemy spams Strelky and Tanks I try to get Panthers becouse its an only PE non doctrinal armored unit that can fight both.
I use mostly pick scorched earth tactics (very early shimm flame mines - 3 of them cost less than G43 upgrade). This helpes killing some infantry so I can get enough fuel to get MP44. I hate being outcapped in early game.

I agree, marders are terrible. Both treadbreaker + AT nades and Shreks in IHT are better. Sometimes if you only have one marder you can block incoming vehicles with an AC but obviously that's quite risky. Scorched Earth is an effective delay tactic to let you survive to mid/late game. It is my most used PE doctrine, where I go booby trap side first until sector arty. Some may call this ability OP but PE need everything they can get right now. They have 0 blob control. Or light vehicle control for that matter. AT nades are not a deterrent at all.

4 man squads are a must. For added firepower, health and an extra man who makes the whole squad less likely to be wiped.

Last edited June 26, 2010 at 3:58 AM by GodlikeDennis

Don't know where else to post this but here goes, what is the purpose of the Funkwagon? I know siphoning off resources but how do you know if its working or not?

Besides siphoning resources, combining it with tank awareness is a winner :D!! It has the longest detection value than any other unit when deployed. There's an article on relicnews written for an expert that says all it's benefits and how to use it correctly.

Griptonix wrote:
Don't know where else to post this but here goes, what is the purpose of the Funkwagon? I know siphoning off resources but how do you know if its working or not?

Check youre resource income.  ::)
Heres some info for the 2.502 patch. I think it is still up to date.
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?p=3474577

the problem with everyones strategy is that massed produced conscripts and later with the added rifles may and will overrun pe infantry especially when their with the more advanced infantry with their smgs and lmgs. Not to mention their very cheap and very easy to replace with doctrines that benefit them. The pe infantry while very reliable is expensive to make and replace. but The flak 36 will make short work of the russian infantry too.... ;)

javy52 wrote:
the problem with everyones strategy is that massed produced conscripts and later with the added rifles may and will overrun pe infantry especially when their with the more advanced infantry with their smgs and lmgs.

Nothing ingame is more advanced than MP44s and FG42s.
Once you beat a Soviet (1.11 Patch) blob theres no way they can recover becouse their infantry are all dead (no reteat) and youre infantry are veted (MP44 should be veted defensivly).
Reinforceing 3 PE men costs 135MP. Strelky squad costs 280MP.

Just dont run into a russian blob with 1 or 2 squads. PE infantry is the ultimate blob forming unit.

Butterfly bombs are also extremely effective vs Russians. As mentioned, FG42s are utter death. Falls are my favourite unit :). An important note is that the funky not only steals resources but lowers the enemy population max. This can be deadly if he has a maxed out army as, once you deploy the funky, he won't be able to reman his squads due to popcap. This works against all armies of course.

Last edited July 26, 2010 at 2:29 PM by GodlikeDennis

GodlikeDennis wrote:
An important not is that the funky not only steals resources but lowers the enemy population max. This can be deadly if he has a maxed out army as, once you deploy the funky, he won't be able to reman his squads due to popcap. This works against all armies of course.

Thats one good advice for players with good micro. Funky spots enemy infantry on a tactical map so you can see a PTRD team coming at it or a mortar deploying.

Lowering Pop cap is very usefull vs 7pop Strelky spam and Tier I is a must have to me becouse of the best global upgrade ingame - 4 man squads.

Paciat wrote:

javy52 wrote:
the problem with everyones strategy is that massed produced conscripts and later with the added rifles may and will overrun pe infantry especially when their with the more advanced infantry with their smgs and lmgs.

Nothing ingame is more advanced than MP44s and FG42s.
Once you beat a Soviet (1.11 Patch) blob theres no way they can recover becouse their infantry are all dead (no reteat) and youre infantry are veted (MP44 should be veted defensivly).
Reinforceing 3 PE men costs 135MP. Strelky squad costs 280MP.

Just dont run into a russian blob with 1 or 2 squads. PE infantry is the ultimate blob forming unit.

this is true. However the russian infanrtry is much cheaper than the pe infantry and i agree entirely that the g-41s and mp44s are an amazing beast by themselves. I think this whole thing relys on relys to much on rushing for the assault grenadiers and getting the g41 upgrade that cost 50 munitions a piece. Not to mention if the pe blob was hit my the amazing russian mortars then their would not be much left.

javy52 wrote:
...
this is true. However the russian infanrtry is much cheaper than the pe infantry and i agree entirely that the g-41s and mp44s are an amazing beast by themselves. I think this whole thing relys on relys to much on rushing for the assault grenadiers and getting the g41 upgrade that cost 50 munitions a piece. Not to mention if the pe blob was hit my the amazing russian mortars then their would not be much left.

This is a silly statement. The mortar statement is a complete "what if?" and the same could be true for any AOE weapon. Saying that it relies on rushing for their advanced techs is also obvious because that is the way PE is designed to tech. PE can get any 2 of their buildings within 5 minutes. Going straight for your best AI weapons would probably be a sound plan if you were currently being beaten by infantry I would think...

MP44s aren't the only effective weapon against Russians anyway. You could instead go a heavy T2 with luftwaffe, using falls as your mainline infantry (which are cheaper to reinforce than PGs, have better guns and start with 4 men) and use various halftracks to supplement your force. If you reinforce on the field you don't need to give up any land to the Russians. Armoured cars are also excellent against the Russians, so long as you have good micro. A P4 rush can also work.

There are certainly other ways to fight the Russian blob as PE, MP44s are just among the most effective.

How about we wait for 1.20 to mention this.

why don't you try running the Bergetiger over the Russian infantry??


You see , in the 1.2 patch , the PE can lend lease a nuclear bomb from the Americans , the nuclear bomb will either be mounted on a pz 4 and can be driven straight into the russian base where the panzer-grenadiers can detonate it "For the fatherland !! you vodka drinking swine!!!!!"

or the bomb can be put into a henshel me 91 and driven straight into the russian base building in kamikaze style

Thts it , when there will be no base there wont be infantry or any t-34's or is2's

and hence the panzer elite wins...

AbhMkh wrote:
why don't you try running the Bergetiger over the Russian infantry??


You see , in the 1.2 patch , the PE can lend lease a nuclear bomb from the Americans , the nuclear bomb will either be mounted on a pz 4 and can be driven straight into the russian base where the panzer-grenadiers can detonate it "For the fatherland !! you vodka drinking swine!!!!!"

or the bomb can be put into a henshel me 91 and driven straight into the russian base building in kamikaze style

Thts it , when there will be no base there wont be infantry or any t-34's or is2's

and hence the panzer elite wins...

PE sucks. ;D
They wont get nothing exept a JagdpanzerIV.

PE replacement units should replace the near useless purchased assault and tank hunter squads.

Why would America give germmany a bomb?

GodlikeDennis wrote:
PE replacement units should replace the near useless purchased assault and tank hunter squads.

+1

GodlikeDennis wrote:

javy52 wrote:
...
this is true. However the russian infanrtry is much cheaper than the pe infantry and i agree entirely that the g-41s and mp44s are an amazing beast by themselves. I think this whole thing relys on relys to much on rushing for the assault grenadiers and getting the g41 upgrade that cost 50 munitions a piece. Not to mention if the pe blob was hit my the amazing russian mortars then their would not be much left.

This is a silly statement. The mortar statement is a complete "what if?" and the same could be true for any AOE weapon. Saying that it relies on rushing for their advanced techs is also obvious because that is the way PE is designed to tech. PE can get any 2 of their buildings within 5 minutes. Going straight for your best AI weapons would probably be a sound plan if you were currently being beaten by infantry I would think...

MP44s aren't the only effective weapon against Russians anyway. You could instead go a heavy T2 with luftwaffe, using falls as your mainline infantry (which are cheaper to reinforce than PGs, have better guns and start with 4 men) and use various halftracks to supplement your force. If you reinforce on the field you don't need to give up any land to the Russians. Armoured cars are also excellent against the Russians, so long as you have good micro. A P4 rush can also work.

There are certainly other ways to fight the Russian blob as PE, MP44s are just among the most effective.

I see what you mean entirely however Ive seen russian mortars in actoin and they do scare me. I have lately been playin with pe alot and I do believe I have underestimated their inantry especially the g-43s which seem to have gotten better. Tank wise thoguh the russians have a very huge advantage over pe with tanks if it came don to tank to tank battle. Unless you can prtect your marders then there wont be a problem lol. The panzers though just wont cut it agaisnt is-2s and t34s.....

I didnt say that they would give it , i said it would be leased


@ Paciat :- You said it for me ;)

PE have a massive weakness against vehicles. This is true against all armies and is a deficit in the PE faction design. I personally think marders are absolutely awful so I go T2-4-3 usually, getting AT halfs crossed with shreks in halftracks. It also puts me on an excellent path for Panthers in the long run if I need them.