Ostheer Vehicle Poll

if you read the list of vehicles then you would see it is already there.... the 11th one down

I know. I voted for it.  ;)

My comment was meant toward those who were arguing.

I still dont get why everyone hates Flammpanzer Ausf. M  *-* 

i hate all types of flame weapons i like more bullets... ;D
i hate piospam with flamethrower and if it was on me i will not add any flame weapons...but that's just my opinion

Akalonor wrote:
I still dont get why everyone hates Flammpanzer Ausf. M  *-*

Ok. I gotta look that one up. :D

It's extremely "cool"
:)
Well if I go against ANY german faction people Spam IV's if against PE they spam halftracks against british ,Fireflies,against USA spam Rangers!!
Deal with it can't stand the heat don't wear a jacket :D

Ost_Front_Soldat wrote:

Versedhorison wrote:
Wehrmacht already have that.

So?

blackbishop wrote:

GamblerSK wrote:
Panzer IV which have PE is a bit different from that which use Wehrmacht...

Indeed, but is used as an argument to dispose it (that wehr have it).

Just pointing out that maybe there are other alternatives to repeating units that already exist. Although there may most likely be some units being used by wher and PE that the Ostheer are gonna use, it still doesn't hurt to come up with alternatives as long as they are not dumb and stupid.

For example the ostheer could have a Panzer II or III Flammenwerfer tank. This tank did indeed exist and was used by Germany in WWII.

At some point we have to draw the line. Some don't even want to see the Panzer IV because they are "bored" or it. The Hanomag, in its widely produced variants should most definately be in the Ostheer. The war in the east is in many ways epitomized by flamthrowers and the grumbling of half-tracks. Again I have no problem against suggestions but some units are just sacred, and it should not be up for discussion(Panzer IV, Hanomag...etc).

I'm fine with seeing a Panther or Panzer IV in the Ostheer, I really Don't mind. They do need some kind of main battle tank and it would have to be either one.

There are a few Ostheer concepts that name Panzer III as the Ostheer "MBT".  It's fast, it's cheap, and it can still stand up to Soviet tanks.  Could also be an option.

Shadowmetroid wrote:
There are a few Ostheer concepts that name Panzer III as the Ostheer "MBT".  It's fast, it's cheap, and it can still stand up to Soviet tanks.  Could also be an option.

The Panzer III could stand up to a BT-7. It was effectively a light tank. The Panzer III was used to combat T-34s in the early goings because it was literally all the Germans had initially to combat the T-34, seeing as the Panzer IVs for the invasion were Ausf. F1, which were almost completely incapable of destroying enemy armour. The truth is, until the Panzer IV Ausf. F2 arrived, the majority of T-34 kills were made by anti-tank guns, particularily truck-towed 88mm AA/AT guns.

There are good concepts out there that don't use the P4 or the Panther. I will use my concept as an example (it does use the P4 but mainly as Anti Inf),

I use the P3 as the MBT through out the game, I also how ever balance it out by adding SPGs such as Marder 2 and Nashorn to tackle the heavier tanks. I do have the P4 but its only role is Anti Infantry, completely useless if they have only tanks UNLESS you pay a very expensive upgrade (125 Muni)

goliaths cost 100 mu so it isnt that expensive.

but Goliath isn't upgrade... :)

Ost_Front_Soldat wrote:
The Panzer III could stand up to a BT-7. It was effectively a light tank. The Panzer III was used to combat T-34s in the early goings because it was literally all the Germans had initially to combat the T-34, seeing as the Panzer IVs for the invasion were Ausf. F1, which were almost completely incapable of destroying enemy armour. The truth is, until the Panzer IV Ausf. F2 arrived, the majority of T-34 kills were made by anti-tank guns, particularily truck-towed 88mm AA/AT guns.

This is exact true. That is why I think PzIII should be included in Ostheer. When Germany attacked Russia the majority of tanks were PzIII with some PzIV, Pz38t, Pz35t or smaller PzII. PzIII should be available in game sooner as T34, I say around 130fuel limit (T34 is now 115+70=185fuel) as I suggested in my concept of Ostheer...

PzIII was no match for T34 in terms of armor or gun even with 50mm gun version. Majority of tank kills were achieved with AT guns. Only later as PzIVF2 version and even later PzV and PzVI were able to match soviet tanks. I think this could put a good fuel race for Ostheer as PzIII will be available sooner (could be countered with soviet AT gun or AT inf) and then T34 hits the field, and Ostheer should have some appropriate AT gun available that time to counter T34 (I suggest Pak38 50mm f.e.). Then it will be even and both players will need to either press for more fuel to tech or press for combat to annihilate opponent army to gain advantage.

Later Ostheer should have some heavy tank available, IMO TigerI is the most suitable option as it was represent in wide numbers on ostfront and as many mentioned before - PzIV and Panther is available in other Axis factions. Then I would also include some heavy mobile AT gun as Elefant but only as doctrinal.

if i ever make an ostheer concept i would have the Panzer 3, which can upgrade its shorter 50mm gun to an L/60 gun (Ausf J upgrade) for more anti vehicile firepower at the cost of anti inf firepower. (also, it would gain a bit more armor and side skirts.) And once Ausf J upgrade is complete, PZ3 can use APCR rounds abilityfor 50 ammo, where it gains much better penetration for about 3-4 shots. Also, Stug III would be anti infantry role, more effective then Stug 4 versus infantry, but crap vs tanks. It could, however, fire a single HEAT round for 40 ammo, that does heavy damage to vehicles and pretty good vs tanks. However, at another tier on, Stug III's gain individual upgrade to KWK 40 L48 gun, giving slightly greater anti tank firepower then stug 4, but losing HEAT round ability, and becoming worse vs infantry then unupgraded stug3.  Jadgpanzer 4 would be late game TD, starting with Hetzer PAk 39, then being able to upgrade to KWK 42, slightly better then panthers gun.


Also, i suggest Panzer 1 as early game anti infantry. It would be doctrinal 2 point call in, and be armed with 2 bunker Mg42, with heavy supression and firepower. However, it isint the fastest light tank, and altho immune to bullets, 2 PTRD rounds or one hand grenade or one shell of any kind will instantly destroy it.

Last edited March 15, 2010 at 7:36 PM by guynumber7

+1 for Panzer 1 Idea , brilliant  :D

guynumber7 wrote:
if i ever make an ostheer concept i would have the Panzer 3, which can upgrade its shorter 50mm gun to an L/60 gun (Ausf J upgrade) for more anti vehicile firepower at the cost of anti inf firepower. (also, it would gain a bit more armor and side skirts.) And once Ausf J upgrade is complete, PZ3 can use APCR rounds abilityfor 50 ammo, where it gains much better penetration for about 3-4 shots. Also, Stug III would be anti infantry role, more effective then Stug 4 versus infantry, but crap vs tanks. It could, however, fire a single HEAT round for 40 ammo, that does heavy damage to vehicles and pretty good vs tanks. However, at another tier on, Stug III's gain individual upgrade to KWK 40 L48 gun, giving slightly greater anti tank firepower then stug 4, but losing HEAT round ability, and becoming worse vs infantry then unupgraded stug3.  Jadgpanzer 4 would be late game TD, starting with Hetzer PAk 39, then being able to upgrade to KWK 42, slightly better then panthers gun.


Also, i suggest Panzer 1 as early game anti infantry. It would be doctrinal 2 point call in, and be armed with 2 bunker Mg42, with heavy supression and firepower. However, it isint the fastest light tank, and altho immune to bullets, 2 PTRD rounds or one hand grenade or one shell of any kind will instantly destroy it.

PzIII will probably have a PzIV armor but less armor. Thats why it will apear in the game as fast as Wehrmacht StugIV.
In this stage of the game every PzIII should be an upgunned L/60 gun.
Youre right that PzIII should have some abilities like the AP shells. I would give it a focused fire ability.

There can be no immune to bullets axis tank till allies can get a 57mm/stuart. Thats why all early light tanks (before puma) are a bad idea.

Late in the war thry stoped makeing panzer 2s,so it become uncomman.

Assigned to security duties mostly.

paciat i know but 1 grenade will blow it up so is that fair?

maybe it could just be bullet  resistant then

If they use the P1 or P2 they would probably have the T70 or M8 armor

Shadowmetroid wrote:
There are a few Ostheer concepts that name Panzer III as the Ostheer "MBT".  It's fast, it's cheap, and it can still stand up to Soviet tanks.  Could also be an option.

I personally doubt it. Panzer III was slower, had less armour and a weak gun that couldn't penetrate the T34 in the front. a Panzer III couldn't operate as a MBT especially given the german doctrine of quality over quantity. The Ostheer MBT has got to be either Panzer IV or the Panther I just can't see the Panzer III as a MBT. If it does get into the mod It will either be an early tank or some kind of support vehichle.

Seeme wrote:
Late in the war thry stoped makeing panzer 2s,so it become uncomman.

Late war the only tanks they were makig were Panzer IV's, Panthers and both Tigers.

PANZER III 
i would definately like to see the panzer III. it would be a good light tank that you could make a lot of. i wouldnt make it any better than  the stuart. I would also make it no more than 4 or 5 pop cap, the whole point would be that you could make a lot of them.

ELEFANT
The elefant would be cool. i would make the gun equal to that of the flak 88. Its speed would be slow, about that of the tigerII or slower. its armor would have to be awsome!!!

I agree the Elefant and the panzer 3 is a must have in the ostheer. Maybe the panzer 3 should be upgradable to different varients to make it a specilized vechial such as
Flammpanzer with a hull mounted flame thrower
Aust L with more armor and a bigger gun
command tank (like the british one)
and i think the panzer 1 is a good idea

Versedhorison wrote:
I personally doubt it. Panzer III was slower, had less armour and a weak gun that couldn't penetrate the T34 in the front. a Panzer III couldn't operate as a MBT especially given the german doctrine of quality over quantity. The Ostheer MBT has got to be either Panzer IV or the Panther I just can't see the Panzer III as a MBT. If it does get into the mod It will either be an early tank or some kind of support vehichle.

PanzerIII had similar armor as vet 0 PzIV so it should have the same armor type but 100HP less (500HP) more acceleration but same top speed.

The whole point of creating a PzIII is to make it weaker than a T-34, Cromwell or a Sherman so you need 2 PzIII to fight it, but a PzIII and StugIII combo would be better.
Germans had very big problems with T-34 in 1941-1942 and PzIII were outgunned an outarmored by Leand Lease Shermans at El-Alamain.

I think that PzIII can be a main Ostheer tank, but not a main battle tank (becouse MTB can fight anything on its own).
Ostheer should be based on cooperation as the German army was, not on tanks (T-34) like Soviets.
In Late game 7,5cm PAK emplacements, buildable Tiger I (1 on the field limit?) and JagdpanzerIV (only 500-700HP but Jagdpanthers armor) would fight IS-2.

I like to see Tiger 1 , Panzer 3 and 10.5 cm Howitzer buildable :X

I think panzer III's should be the equal of a cormwell, since Cromwells are inferior to PzIV's and Shermans, but not too inferior.

I like to see:

PzKfw. II, III, IV
Stug III
Marder II
10,5 cm mov. art. like 15cm s.IG.33(Sf) Auf Pz.I Ausf.B
Pak40
and many special recon and halftrucks:)
and OK....Tiger Ausf. E

Panzer 1
Because?
It'd serve as a light tank with Dual MG's, basiccly good against late conscript spams.

Panzer 3
Because?
Well.. We all know ;)

Tiger [Buildable]
Because?
Well it's a Buildable Tiger...

Transport Halftrack
Because?
Either this or the Opel Blitz. Need a way for large infantry plattons [like-12-15 men] to be transported easily.

StuG III:
Because:

We needa' light SPG. ;)

Pz38(t) Doctrinal;
Because?
We need a Light Tank Recon would be needed for quick blitzkrieg assaults on bases..

Nashorn
Because?

Slightly more orginal and better looking than the Elefant ;)

Grille
Because?
Well... Arty is good, and this 15cm Close-Range Arty would fit in well with Urban Enviroments of the EF.

Last edited July 15, 2010 at 7:08 AM by Newbie.

The Thor previous topic

Been remove by Imperial Kaskins

Last edited June 11, 2010 at 7:33 AM by ImperialKaskins

oh for gods sakes I thought we were past all of this stupid crap about the super (stupid) heavy artillery

These are great results and i agree with adding more new units thats cool!

Sorry it remove right away

Personally I'd really like to see some infantry guns brought in
(like the 7.5cm leIg, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.5cm_leichte_Infantriegeschutz_18, and the 15cm sIg, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/15_cm_sIG_33).

Ideally they'd be able to fire direct but would have a bombardment ability too (with the 15cm have a much lower rate of fire, and both guns having a direct range similiar to that of the MG42)

fumo wrote:
Personally I'd really like to see some infantry guns brought in
(like the 7.5cm leIg, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.5cm_leichte_Infantriegeschutz_18, and the 15cm sIg, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/15_cm_sIG_33).

Ideally they'd be able to fire direct but would have a bombardment ability too (with the 15cm have a much lower rate of fire, and both guns having a direct range similiar to that of the MG42)

Agreed. The Ostheer needs some kind of artillery other than mechanized.

I think the PZkII, Jpanzer,stug,early tiger, and some form of arty should be in the ostheer.

Here's a lovely piece of German artillery made by the community.

http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread.php?t=233281

Would be rather nice for the Ost perhaps?  :)

Also, agree with a lot of the posts above, Panzer I, Panzer 38t, Panzer and StuG III, Brumbaar, Early War Tiger, Grille etc all sound good.

Probably not goin to have a Jagdpanzer seeming as its a PE reward unit now though.

Cheers

Jpanther or jpanzer. there is a difference.

Well, both of them. As they're both PE units as of the 1.20 patch.

Last edited July 14, 2010 at 11:34 PM by luz777

I wonder if it would be possible to modify the 234 to make a 234\4 , that would be awesome ;) it would be a mobile AT gun with 100mm of pen.

Do you mean the Hetzer? Cause i was talking about jagdpanzer IV Sd. Kfz. 162. tank destroyer. With the 75mm cannon. It could be built or off map call in. I was tougher than the hetzer by far, but entered late in the war. Many were used on the eastern front.

Akalonor wrote:
I wonder if it would be possible to modify the 234 to make a 234\4 , that would be awesome ;) it would be a mobile AT gun with 100mm of pen.

Specify what gun range would this more powerfull Puma have.
Its to mobile to be like a Marder so I think 45 range is fine.
But Id rather see a 234/3 version becouse it would be good vs infantry, emplacements, blobs and still could damage (not kill) Stuarts.

Maybe both would be available after upgrades.

Paciat wrote:

Akalonor wrote:
I wonder if it would be possible to modify the 234 to make a 234\4 , that would be awesome ;) it would be a mobile AT gun with 100mm of pen.

Specify what gun range would this more powerfull Puma have.
Its to mobile to be like a Marder so I think 45 range is fine.
But Id rather see a 234/3 version becouse it would be good vs infantry, emplacements, blobs and still could damage (not kill) Stuarts.

Maybe both would be available after upgrades.

Really awesome stuff.
Didnt know about so many modifications of the 234!


The upper one could indeed be the AT gun of the ostheer, but it should be slower than the puma ofc. Thats fits in very well, because the weapon is heavier and the driver has to drive more carefully with this weapon fitted on the top.

The other one is another very interesting idea.. a vehicle like that doesnt exist in CoH yet.




Regards,

-V-

I agree this is very good stuff, and sound theory as well. The pics and the idea justify the reserch. I would love to see this vehicle on the battlefield in both configs.

What do the Developers think ?

* Everyone stares at akaloner and looks at the door, nothing happens*

its really unfair that the soviets can build as many is-2s as they want and 2 bein more than able to take out a king, when we can only get 1 tiger, or 1 king to combat the is-2 not to mention the other 3 tanks they have thats way to beasty. I say panzers, panthers, tigers, and the elefant. Just my thought.....

javy52 wrote:
its really unfair that the soviets can build as many is-2s as they want and 2 bein more than able to take out a king, when we can only get 1 tiger, or 1 king to combat the is-2 not to mention the other 3 tanks they have thats way to beasty. I say panzers, panthers, tigers, and the elefant. Just my thought.....

well you can have as many tigers you want ;) you just need PE on your side ;) wink wink

javy52 wrote:
its really unfair that the soviets can build as many is-2s as they want and 2 bein more than able to take out a king, when we can only get 1 tiger, or 1 king to combat the is-2 not to mention the other 3 tanks they have thats way to beasty. I say panzers, panthers, tigers, and the elefant. Just my thought.....

Completely agreed. Just today on Achelous River I finally rebuilt the bridge and attacked with my ally and ran into two of them. They damn near took out all of our panthers and many infantry. The game is really unbalanced without the Ostheer to combat the commies.