A new faction for Eastern Front

  First of all i want to say that there is 3 different nations on one side (British, USA, Soviet Union) but at the other side only 1 nation and its Germans (Wehrmacht & Panzer Elite). And now people talk about Ostheer and its again Germans. At this point I'm getting concerned about variety on battlefield... I think we must put a different nation in the mod and that would be really nice. This will make this mod (more) awesome.

  There are many nations can be think ed about but i think Empire of Japan would be a good choice because first of all i want you to remember that: When Japanese joined to war from that moment its called as a World War. Before than that is was a war on Europe and a bit on North Africa. Secondly, Japanese matches the title of mod. Well it is far east but it is east... And Japanese fought both with USA and Soviet Union at that era. Japanese had a fierce fanatic infantry (Banzai charges, suicide attacks etc.) which are also were experts of ambush tactics (remember battles on tropical pacific islands) and they had a suprising fierce air force (remember Pearl Harbor - Kamikaze Doctrine etc.) which rains bullets or bombs on their targets before they crash on it (this can be a 1 of 3 doctrines). Finally we must not forget Japanese navy power. In CoH there is no navy battles but navy forces can feature as an off-map artillery or manpower in exchange of fuel and (this one is very unique) reinforcing infantry squads on anywhere on owned territories. These can be abilities of Navy Support Doctrine .   
  Japanese had good tanks (mostly medium and light tanks) but they are not as strong as Panther or IS-2 or M26 so they lack of heavy armored vehicles. This weakness can be reduced by Heavy Armor Doctrine. With this doctrine Japanese can call (for once) powerful Super-Heavy Tank "O-I" which can match with a Tiger Tank.
 
  *As same as in WW2 Japanese have a very mobile force on battlefield (Like British in CoH but not with Trucks).
  *Their infantry is "kill many in short time but die quickly" type.Setting booby traps, ambushes, digging trenches for defensive operations...
  *They had a strong artillery like Rocket Mortars, Howitzers, Anti-Tank Guns etc.
  *Japanese snipers are also very good they can immobilize themselves in exchange of longer range (immobilize/mobilize countdown can be set to 5 or 10 seconds).
  *Japanese also used chemical/biological weapons so this one also can be put.

These are some ideas about Japanese... I'd love to read comments/ideas about Japanese...

I found these links very useful:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artillery_of_Japan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Japanese_Army
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Japanese_tanks_and_armoured_vehicles_of_the_WWII_period
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamikaze
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_weapons_of_the_Japanese_Navy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_General_Headquarters#Organization_during_World_War_II
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banzai_charge
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_weapon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731
http://www.provehicles.co.uk/top-10-heaviest-and-biggest-military-tanks-ever/

YES!!!

Japonia will bring allot of exotic/fresh air in Eastern Front.

Many times i get answer like=we don't want this because is not historical accurate
With another occasions answer is=>but this mod is not meant to be historical accurate.

What i can believe?
I believe is no direction marked clear for this mod,and answers are given in a second,depending what that person think/feel in that moment.

Again I don't see the logic of including what is a major Sea + Air WW2 powerhouse (Japan) to a land battle based game.

Italy would make more sense (not for location but for weapon variety)

Ostheer is certain, japan is not happening. That is what the Pacific Thunder mod is for

QuoteMany times i get answer like=we don't want this because is not historical accurate
With another occasions answer is=>but this mod is not meant to be historical accurate.

It seems that some people don't understand the difference between pure fantasy and creative license. Japan in Europe is a no-no.

WartyX wrote:

QuoteMany times i get answer like=we don't want this because is not historical accurate
With another occasions answer is=>but this mod is not meant to be historical accurate.

It seems that some people don't understand the difference between pure fantasy and creative license. Japan in Europe is a no-no.

Thank YOU. NO JAPANESE ON EASTERN FRONT

Bauer wrote:

WartyX wrote:

QuoteMany times i get answer like=we don't want this because is not historical accurate
With another occasions answer is=>but this mod is not meant to be historical accurate.

It seems that some people don't understand the difference between pure fantasy and creative license. Japan in Europe is a no-no.

Thank YOU. NO JAPANESE ON EASTERN FRONT

+1.
No far eastern front on the eastern front..!
we want to kick real nazi asses not crazy kamikaze ppl.'s little hairy one's.

Last edited February 10, 2010 at 1:44 PM by Venoxxis

The same way the Opposing Fronts expansion brought a very specific part of the Wehrmacht (the Kampfgruppes), the Eastern Front expansion could bring something specific.

I vote for SS units. And to soothe the butthurt, I suggest having the player handle the "good" SS as they race to stop the "bad" SS from committing war crimes. Or that could be a subplot for the last missions, or something.

SS will be incorporated in the same way as Wehrmacht and Panzer Elite. They won't specifically be called 'SS', but certain units' uniforms and loadout will indicate this.

Just out of curiosity how come they won't be called the SS?? I understand they where brutal but they where also very tough soldiers to beat. People have to stop beating around the bush regarding the SS they where in the war so have them in the game... For example, the 2nd SS panzer infantry had the most decorations on the eastern front (not sure about the whole german army though) and I don't understand why they aren't incorporated

Relic didn't call Riflemen 'US Army Riflemen', and they didn't call Stormtroopers 'SS Stormtroopers'. There is no reason to call our elite troops the SS, just to prove that we can write 'SS' in our game.

Well, Panzer Elite is already taken, so... Heavy Tank Battalion? Lots of KTs and Panthers?

WartyX wrote:
Relic didn't call Riflemen 'US Army Riflemen', and they didn't call Stormtroopers 'SS Stormtroopers'. There is no reason to call our elite troops the SS, just to prove that we can write 'SS' in our game.

Ah ok just curious

good to hear that
that was the solution i hoped for

if you want to make a japanese faction go help the people already trying to make one. If you are wondering were to search just go to www.moddb.com and type in at the search log company of heroes opposing fronts then click on the mods tab and you will see it. Once agian this a eastern front mod not a Japanese mod.

In theory there is nothing wrong with having Japanese in Russia as long as they don't fight along side the Germans. The reasoning for this is that throughout the war and at before the war there was alot of "border wars" between japan and russia also at the very end Russia invaded japanese held territories. So the idea of No Japanese in Russia is well dumb but this mod teams goal is to create faction representing the titanic struggle between the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany.

Is it illegal in certain countries to have an "SS" faction? Like the illegality of the swastika?

???

If so, then I understand why. If not, why not an SS faction? Many differences in supply and priorities were given them - much like the Grossdeutschland (yet another possible faction).

it is illegal especially in germany and poland

Hi folks, 1st post on this forum.

My idea for a new faction on the axis side would be a "international" faction. It would be composed of units from germany and its allies/occupied territories. Finnish, romanian, italian, voluenteers from scandinavia, france etc.. There is a loot to take fram here i would say. Maybe a bit unrealisto have them all jammed together in one army... but it could ve great fun!

ah.. dreams  ::)

If someone makes a Japanese fraction that dosnt modify the original game Ill play it.  :)

The real problem with the japanese is that most of their army (not navy, airforce) weapons were obsolete.
Every fraction has:
-medium tanks
-doctrinal heavy tanks
-infantry AT weapons
-fanatic infantry - you can make any infantry squad fight to the last man.
Germans even have suicide goliaths.

There is no way to create a balanced COH fraction based only on artillery, banzai and suicide attacks.
Even the defensive British have tanks and PIATs.

i think that's not a problem
the Japanese had standard weapons like pistols, rifles, submachine guns, light Mg's, heavy Mg's
they got anti tank weapons and not only AT guns but Type 97 20mm AT Rifle which could be light AT on armored vehicles or light tanks and later (as in real the japs get that weapon later)
Type 4 70 mm AT Rocket Launcher
they got light and medium tanks even Brits don't have any really heavy tanks British Sherman is good but not as Panther, Tiger or K Tiger so i don't see any problem of balance at Japanese side... ;)

GamblerSK wrote:they got light and medium tanks even Brits don't have any really heavy tanks British Sherman is good but not as Panther, Tiger or K Tiger so i don't see any problem of balance at Japanese side... ;)

the thing is...brits dont have heavy tanks because they are about artillery and defenses

the japaneses strong points were naval and air warfare, thats kinda hard to implement in a small scale game like COH, and if you changed them a lot so they can fit in the game, you may as well use other countries from Europe

at least in my opinion

your kinda right. That would be very hard. But having doctines like this would just rock hell:

Quote
Venoxxis Proundly presents the almighty:
(just a few minutes of work so dont expect something special xD)

Kamikaze Doctrine  xD

We even aim tanks!

:)  ;D

GamblerSK wrote:
i think that's not a problem
the Japanese had standard weapons like pistols, rifles, submachine guns, light Mg's, heavy Mg's
they got anti tank weapons and not only AT guns but Type 97 20mm AT Rifle which could be light AT on armored vehicles or light tanks and later (as in real the japs get that weapon later)
Type 4 70 mm AT Rocket Launcher
they got light and medium tanks even Brits don't have any really heavy tanks British Sherman is good but not as Panther, Tiger or K Tiger so i don't see any problem of balance at Japanese side... ;)

Japanese dont have Churchills and Fireflies.
Nor they have a Pershing, long barrel guns for their tanks and allied war machine.

Infantry Kamikaze docrine.
Tank Kamikaze docrine.
Airforce Kamikaze docrine.
Is something wrong with these doctrines?  :D

The fact is that in 1944 japanese were only good at jungle and mountain warfare. At open planes they sucked. Quick soviet capture of manjuria proofs it.

Last edited March 31, 2010 at 1:17 PM by Paciat

yes but that was problem not in equipment but they wasn't trained good, they really was using swords and jumping out of bushes but that was usable maybe in 17 century but not in WW2 its similar to Italians which had normal weapons but their warn strategy wasn't good the same Japanese i just mean that theres no problem to make balanced Japanese faction from the armament which Japanese had

GamblerSK wrote:
...theres no problem to make balanced Japanese faction from the armament which Japanese had

I agree with that, even for Italians and for Japanese it could be done. Since they lack some equipment (like heavy tanks) it could be balanced with other abilities - f.e. Japanese inf.can't be suppresed, or they could have ability to dig underground tunnels connecting some points of battlefield...

@Venoxxis: lol you killing me mate, nice artwork. You forgot to add however- Left side: Bushido codex, Right side: Desperate measures :)

Anyway to this topic: Italians or Japanese would be great but not for Eastern Front IMO, when someone says Eastern Front everybody knows it means Russian vs Germans. But it could be inspiration for other gifted modders to make mods of CoH: Afrika campaign or Pacific battlefield...

GamblerSK wrote:
yes but that was problem not in equipment but they wasn't trained good, they really was using swords and jumping out of bushes but that was usable maybe in 17 century but not in WW2 its similar to Italians which had normal weapons but their warn strategy wasn't good the same Japanese i just mean that theres no problem to make balanced Japanese faction from the armament which Japanese had

I agree about the strategy, but
Both Italians and Japanese had bad tanks, old rifles, underpowered AT equipment. SMGs were rare, ammunition was not as standarided (different bullets for different smallarms) as in Germany/Allied superpowers.

Both of these armies could defend in rough terrain but had little offensive capabilities on the open ground.

Can the Ostheer retreat???

Why not to Japanese army?IMHO it's good even GREAT idea.Doctrines are especially interesting and thought to start with.What if they didn't have heavy tanks?British army also did not.

It doesn't need to be 100% historical accurate,but I wouldn't see IS-3 in Red Army anyway...It's just matter to feel balance (also balance the mod) between fiction and facts.

I would simply make three doctrines:

Desperate Measures

Last Stand

Yamato


First one would be about self-destructive tactics like kamikaze airplanes, men with bombs attached to their bodies as special anti-infantry (something like a demo charge), men with Anti-tank charges at the end of poles (Teller mine level of lethality), and cloaked kamikaze soldiers with frag-grenade power. Japanese officers could use Heroic Charge.

Last Stand would be the opposite. Defensive emplacements, special artillery and munitions like AP rounds for HMGs, cloakable AT weapons and buried tank turrets, long-ranged mortars. All about crushing the enemy with overwhelming firepower after luring him into ambushes.

Yamato would rely on massive use of manpower and off-maps. The power of the Imperial Japanese Navy. Things like different extra-supplies abilities (pay in manpower, fuel or munitions to receive extra income on the other ones), off-maps in the form of light salvos from DDs, heavy salvos from BBs, and a super-barrage from a Dreadnought Battleship (Yamato or Musashi). Recon airplanes, strafings, bombings.

Saavedra wrote:
I would simply make three doctrines:

Desperate Measures

Last Stand

Yamato


First one would be about self-destructive tactics like kamikaze airplanes, men with bombs attached to their bodies as special anti-infantry (something like a demo charge), men with Anti-tank charges at the end of poles (Teller mine level of lethality), and cloaked kamikaze soldiers with frag-grenade power. Japanese officers could use Heroic Charge.

Last Stand would be the opposite. Defensive emplacements, special artillery and munitions like AP rounds for HMGs, cloakable AT weapons and buried tank turrets, long-ranged mortars. All about crushing the enemy with overwhelming firepower after luring him into ambushes.

Yamato would rely on massive use of manpower and off-maps. The power of the Imperial Japanese Navy. Things like different extra-supplies abilities (pay in manpower, fuel or munitions to receive extra income on the other ones), off-maps in the form of light salvos from DDs, heavy salvos from BBs, and a super-barrage from a Dreadnought Battleship (Yamato or Musashi). Recon airplanes, strafings, bombings.

+1
Sounds interesting.

+1 from me also.    ;)

I also agree Japanese would be an additional faction I'd be keen to see in CoH, and some of the suggestions above for doctrines sound sensational (so that's my +1) but I also agree with the other posters that Eastern Front is not the mod where the Japanese should be included.  I'm very much looking forward to seeing the Ostheer, therefore keeping this mod a self-contained European Eastern Front mod.

Thanks to MG4242 for pointing out the Pacific Thunder mod.  That made good reading, and I've turned on tracking to see what comes out of that.
(It's at http://www.moddb.com/mods/pacific-thunder if you're also keen for a read)

I think Japan is a good choice, however i think russia needs an enemy they fought. Japan fought in the pacific and italy in the mediterranean. Why not the Finnish army, an elite army whose whole involvement in the war was to fight the russians. the russians and finns hated eachother and had many famous battles against eachother in the winter war in ww2, or at least the ostheer with finnish command tree, having finnish heavy infantry as a call in, with the use of camoflage and finnish engineers who are able to repair destroyed vehicles and make them their own, a famous thing they did to the russians in the famous battle of suomussalmi. It would just seem wrong to not involve the finns at this time

Last edited April 8, 2010 at 5:24 AM by snappa153

If we have the Japs, we cant put the any Coh fraction in battle with it. Not even the U.S.A. We will have to make a new type of army with will be named the "Maines" or something. So its twice the work.

snappa153 wrote:Why not the Finnish army, an elite army whose whole involvement in the war was to fight the russians.

Given the number of fanboys streaming into this mod to specifically ask for Finnish troops, I am pretty damn sure they will be featured. Unless the devs decide they´ve had enough with the nationalisms and don´t include them, Romanians or anyone else out of spite.

Just wanted to say +1 to the Japanese instead of the Ostheer.
The game already has 2 german factions while "Eastern Front" adding the Soviet and the Japanese would sound perfect in my opinion.
I don't mind if the Japanese never walked on Berlin ground or if the Map Editor can't create sand and palm trees, it's a game and I would love to have the Japanese included for any use, whatever it is.

i'll just point out ;)

The Dev's are already working on the Ostheer.

If you want japan, try the Pacific Thunder mod....it ain't gonna come from us  ;D

If anybody is going to add a Japanese faction its some reminder:

- The Japanese DO NOT have armor power thats even close to the Allies/ Soviets. Their mainstay Type 97 medium tanks  can't even penetrate the rear armor of M3 Stuarts. (and in some case it was beat by AP bullets of Panzer 1 used by the Chinese) Yes they do have some better tank, namely the Type 3 design in 1944, but they never saw combat and their quality is just barely on par with Panzer 3. What I am trying to say is the Japanese would have a very hard time in a armor-oriented game like COH

- The O-1 super heavy tank is practically non-existent in history, which mean the Jap would not have heavy armor to support them while all other faction did

BTW I'm currently thinking of a mod on the Chinese battlefield. Probably I can borrow some idea from here

They have!!!
Chi-To (2-5 tanks)
Chi-Nu (60-166 tanks, =Sherman as I think)
and they have Self-propelled artillery!!!
Yes, they didn't see combats, but many people tell me that realism is not important for the Red Army, so why is it important for the Japanese?

O-I (heavy tank) was built in 1944 and afterward sent to Manchuria (but it is probably a legend). Other tank - the "Ultra-Heavy Tank OI" was not built.

And what is about Type 97 Shinhoto Chi-Ha? Type 97 wasn't so bad.

snappa153 wrote:
I think Japan is a good choice, however i think Russia needs an enemy they fought.

The Soviet–Japanese War (1945) was a part of the WWII

Last edited June 13, 2010 at 1:14 PM by UeArtemis

UeArtemis wrote:
They have!!!
Chi-To (2-5 tanks)
Chi-Nu (60-166 tanks, =Sherman as I think)
and they have Self-propelled artillery!!!
Yes, they didn't see combats, but many people tell me that realism is not important for the Red Army, so why is it important for the Japanese?

O-I (heavy tank) was built in 1944 and afterward sent to Manchuria (but it is probably a legend). Other tank - the "Ultra-Heavy Tank OI" was not built.

And what about Type 97 Shinhoto Chi-Ha? Type 97 wasn't so bad.

I don't think to add in a tank that have no combat record or only have barely two or five produced is a good idea
The reason that I said Japanese tanks are gravely inferior to Allies armors are that:
1. Chi-Nu and Chi-To were made in soft iron--yes, SOFT IRON. Toward the end of war the Japanese was in such shortage of material that they can't find enough resource to produce early-war-grade armor. Therefore the armor of Chi-Nu is just barely on-par with, say, Panzer 1.
2. Japanese guns are too weak. Their tank guns were not on par with even per-war tanks. One reason was that their steel production was not advanced enough to produce decent AP-shells. (They didn't even have APC shell) Mostly their AP shells end up shattered upon contact with enemy armor. See this comparison: (source: http://www.luzinde.com/meisaku/tanks/chi-ha.html)

Last edited June 13, 2010 at 1:43 PM by moknin

Let's vote! :D
"What third axis faction you would like to see":
Finns
Italians
Romanians
Japanese
Ostheer

HEY DEVZ CAN U PLZ STOP MAKIN OSTHEER PLZ I WANTZ JAPANEEZ

cephalos wrote:
Let's vote! :D
"What third axis faction you would like to see":
Finns
Italians
Romanians
Japanese
Ostheer

Ostheer

This is not All WW2 faction mod this is EASTERN FRONT mod.

Based on Eastern front in Europe not Eastern Asia :D :D :D

This is the eastern front mod.
Out of a scientifical view the japanese-soviet war was no battle of the eastren front.
The topic eastern front means germany and axis and soviets.
Everything else isnt eastern front.

So out of my view: NO JAPS. 

They world is east. If you start in New York City and go east, you go to London, then Berlin, Moscow,Tokyo, San Fracsioco, And back to New York. These are directions, not places.

What about Chicago ?? You left out Chicago !! How could you -.-
Don't ignore Matthesien , and Starved Rock either!

Anyway, theres no place of east. Theres no place of  west, North, or south.

pfft , there is a place of Mideast , Starved Rock , Utica , IL !