Campaign Structure

I don't know if our lovely developers have any ideas for EF campaign yet. So I have some ideas for the coming campaign and I hope you also like them.

The original campaign in CoH seem to not very epic, except some very first missions. I like to just command my troops through the war. Start with a HQ, building army, capturing points and then destroying enemies seem boring. Why don't we make a campaign that similar to the World in Conflict: Soviet Assault's one? No more base building, just come essential buildings for reinforcement, medical assistant and maybe repair station, some places where your troops can fall back and prepare for coming assaults. Units will be call in off-map and some special units will come from ambient building.

The main character in game should be in a middle rank, so that he is only responsible for just a small area of a big map. Allied computer controlled units, which are scripted well, will fight aside player's troops. Objectives can vary from capturing points, holding area, protecting VIP, rescuing endangered comrades... On some missions, player can act as artillery spotters, partisan leaders (officers who are sent behind enemy line to command local partisan), and some moments player's units will be put under computer's control when he is taking command of a downed comrade's units. Computer controlled units from both sides are also come from off-map and scripted to present only in adequate numbers, but with infinite reservation. The campaign will not be very difficult because your allied units will help you a lot but the battles will be very epic.
And I also suggest a view from both fronts. As the campaign begin with a hopeless defense of a Wehrmacht officer in Berlin. Seeing your comrades died in Soviet hand one by one (the last pockets of resistance in Berlin are clear one by one) and finally, your last moments come on, heavily injured, you lying unconscious on the ground, remembering your first steps on Soviet soil. And there's also a Soviet Officer, who struggle to lead his troops survived from the very first moments of the war. Soviet mission can be holding off the overwhelming German so your comrades can retreat,  breaking through German encirclement to avoid certain termination... And at the end of the campaign is the last moments of the Soviet assault on Berlin.

I know that making a campaign like that requires heavy scripting but I will definitely more exciting than being a lonely commander.

Last edited February 22, 2010 at 9:26 AM by redguardsoldier

Nice idea m8,hope their can set it up for all players.

The Berlin campaign should be the last, as it is the last major battle of The European theatre.

Instead of holding your ground, In the middle of the battle, your commanding officer (liuetenant or captain maybe) decides that this war is over and leads his men out of Berlin to try and surrender to the Western allies. In the escape of Berlin, You will have to avoid both Germans and Russians because german deserters in the battle of berlin were killed.

Then you will have to make your way to the Allied lines avoiding Russian patrols.


Also, a battle of prohkorovka mission will be nice, where you command a Tiger Ace and help your allied tanks fight the endless stream of russian tanks.

I mean 2 Berlin missions, the one that start the campaign in German view, maybe holding hopelessly or escaping (I like your idea, but as a Wehrmacht lover (pure Wehrmacht, no Nazi), I'm not very happy with it). The one that finish the campaign is on Soviet view, as you trying to take full control of Berlin. So, the campaign started in Berlin, flashback to the start of the war, and then finish in Berlin. It will really impress player.

coool idea. Yes lets use allied units more, like how about your a battalion sized unit, controlling a company, and the other companys are always around you, helping. I think there can be maybe like one base for your whole batalion, but watevas easiest. Also if you need some voice work done, record it yourselfs and use some voice editing tools, u will be supprised at how good it sounds, well sometimes :p at least its cheap,. just dont  make it without any talking, that would be crap i played mods of campaigns in other games, and sometimes they even have amazing cinematics but never that gooda speech, usually just subtitles, Dull :p

im thinking a big map, 4 vs 4, osteer and wermach maybe pe too have like 2 big base areas, heavy defended on there side, then big fields in mid, with ruined city at one edge. maybe a small river too :p Huge tank battles already going on with your allies throughout, trying to hold them back. And you have to lead a company to flank, choose the side or mid, wateva, but u have to destroy the 2 big Hq's like big buildings :p or officers or both. and maybe all your reinforcements instead of come from base, come from train :p (ok maybe to hard to make) at least have like a huge defenceive russian wall of commisars manning outposts, mgs and at guns, like so russians dont mass retreat :P

Campaigns are brilliant :D

This sounds like the men of war campgain where a russian officer is swept up in the early part of ww2 by the german onslaught and has like all his men killed except they find a kV1 and rape everyone. He gets captured by germans, you help him escape, then he is put in a penal batallion. he then finds some valuable intel and joins SMERSH. He then joins special forces and causes havoc behind german lines, progressing throughout the war and slowly ranking up, up to a Major i think by the end.


However, i agree with you on many parts. Origional COH campgain was dull and i hated building up USA bases. Opposing Fronts campagins were much better done and even ToV's were fun, if short.

Since I just play game for fun, I found that all CoH campaigns are a little too heavy for me (except Tiger Ace and Causeway). It would be more fun that the campaign is easy but impressive since focusing only in battles (you only take a small part in a large scale battles) is eye candy.

I would also think about Missions with verry few units because WW2 wasnt always a large slaughter ground. Sometimes there were also battles of small squads thet were on patrol and got suprised by the Enemy. So that in those Campaigns u have to watch over every men, avoiding losses. It would be battle more focused on strategy and not like who has more and powerfull units.

Personally  I would love to see an Epic Campaign, honestly the only one that was worth anything was the Normandy Campaign and maybe the British one, but other then that, I really didn't get immersed in it so I hope that they make an epic campaign not something like Causeway or Tiger Ace

You like the americian one?

i think it was way to repetitive and having to build up a base every damn game got really annoying.

But the battles where nice :D

No base building please, put us right into combat like World in Conflict. I finished WiC campaign with no hiccup but I always want to play it again. Just make objectives a little variety and make living character (your higher ranks officers, your staffs officers and some who has the same rank as you).

I love the original campaign and find the ToV campaign pretty boring except Tiger Ace...
Maybe it just me...

Well, how about if there are 2 different campaign involved so people can just play campaign type they want (1 vCoH type campaign and 1 ToV type campaign)...
Or make it like CoD (In 1 mission you build base and attack, in next mission you play as a squad storming enemy base; 2 perspective and it will make the war more epic - at least that what I think)...

How about that ;D?

Campaign should be structured similar to the Coh OF campaign and be based on what actually happened.

I once had to make a 10 page summary of the battle at stalinrad. I have gained enough knowledge, that, including the operations before Stalinrad (Like operation barbarossa), there's plenty of material to atleast make a few missions for a russian campain.

My idea is like: It starts with something like a small skirmish, standing for the operation barbarossa. Second mission could be the first battle at Charkov, third one the second battle at charkov, and lastly a battle at Stalingrad. Other ideas for campain missions would be something with Kertsj or multiple battles in Stalinrad. Maybe add even some of the generals as elite officer units?

I think it would be better to have a more focused perspective and rely on an already written historical piece, than try to piece something together at random.

I would recommend using Antony Beevor´s "Stalingrad" for the Russian campaign, and his "Berlin" for the Germans. Stalingrad can start with the assault on the Volga by Rodimstev´s 13th Guards (the first Russian mission in Call of Duty, basically, with lots of conscript units sailing across the Volga on boats), and work up to the end of the battle with the destruction of the VI Army in the Uranus Operation. You can use the three current Soviet doctrines in the different stages of the battle.

As for Berlin, it can start with the German defeat at Seelow, then follow up with the desperate fighting in and around Berlin, and then follow the German Corps that stayed behind to protect civilians against the Red Army up until they surrendered to the Allies.

Will it have characters like in the relic campaigns? Cutscenes?

Saavedra wrote:
I think it would be better to have a more focused perspective and rely on an already written historical piece, than try to piece something together at random.

I would recommend using Antony Beevor´s "Stalingrad" for the Russian campaign, and his "Berlin" for the Germans. Stalingrad can start with the assault on the Volga by Rodimstev´s 13th Guards (the first Russian mission in Call of Duty, basically, with lots of conscript units sailing across the Volga on boats), and work up to the end of the battle with the destruction of the VI Army in the Uranus Operation. You can use the three current Soviet doctrines in the different stages of the battle.

As for Berlin, it can start with the German defeat at Seelow, then follow up with the desperate fighting in and around Berlin, and then follow the German Corps that stayed behind to protect civilians against the Red Army up until they surrendered to the Allies.

Gets close to what I suggested, but I like this more. Though the last mission for the axis that you suggested, do you simply want to do a timed battle against the commies until americans arrive, and then give up?

Healmeal wrote:
...do you simply want to do a timed battle against the commies until americans arrive, and then give up?

Doesn't sound fun at all.  :(

Saavedra has got it down, although i'd start make a campaign side for each factions.

For instance;

Germans mission for Stalingrad, initial invasion, then after Operation Little Saturn, demoralized, cold, starving but not yet beaten. Around 5 missions.

Russians at Stalingrad, as Saavedra suggests throw in the resistance to Operation Winter Storm is a must. 5-7 missions.

Berlin and Kursk should also be include in campaign packs, with missions on both sides.

I would have it so the player has to protect certain road junctions through which trucks full of civilians are passing. The trucks come in from the sides of the map, heading south. The Russians come in from the north.

As time goes by, Russian attacks are harder to resist, and you will eventually lose junctions. The goal would be to have a set number of civilian vehicles evacuate through your lines. The more junctions you hold, the more civilian vehicles spawn and the faster the evacuation proceeds.

Holding on to all junctions would be possible and make the evacuation proceed faster, but it would strain your resources and you might find yourself surprised by sudden, overwhelming attacks, losing more ground (and maybe even junctions) than if you chose to abandon one or two of them in favour of having a stronger defense in all the others.


If you manage to save the minimum number of requested vehicles, you get a good end. If you don´t, you get a bad end.



I more or less have ideas for how I would structure the campaigns, but without access to Antony Beevor´s books where I am living right now, I can´t explore all the possibilities.

Quote
Antony Beevor´s books

*shudder*

thebomb wrote:

Quote
Antony Beevor´s books

*shudder*

Problem, communist?

Saavedra wrote:

thebomb wrote:

Quote
Antony Beevor´s books

*shudder*

Problem, communist?

Sounds like bad memories and a few sleepless nights.  Not our problem, comrade.

@ Saavedra, good idea.

I also like the concept of a scorched earth mission. You play as German mechanized battalion and you are tasked with;

Primary:
1. Hold Russian forces at the centre median while the rest of the Divison falls back safety to reestablished lines. Est. 45mins.
2. Destroy a bridge and the railway on the map.

Secondary:
1. Lay at least 100 mines and booby trap 12 buildings(must be completed before the blowing up of bridges on the Russians side.
2. Inflict 650 casualties.
3. Loose less than 250 casualties.

Bonus:
1. Lead armoured column throuugh Russians lines and destroy their ammo and fuel caches.
2. Save a platoon of grenadiers who are surrounded in the city core.
3. Destory all 3 bridges.

Last edited March 14, 2010 at 8:32 PM by Ost_Front_Soldat

Woah, hey, start with deciding the overarching plot of the campaign, THEN the missions.



For example, if I had my hand in making the plot, I would have the Russian one be about a Red Army officer (you) having just been through Stalin´s purge, and barely judged innocent. You start commanding Rodimstev´s reinforcements in the passing of the Volga, with a Commissar at your back.

Right from the start, it is obvious the main character and the Commissar hate each other´s guts.

Follow with an assault on the Mamaev Kurgan (the cemetery on a hill from which one could watch the whole of Stalingrad) and maybe a special mission to direct a covert attack on the German headquarters. A secondary objective in one of the missions dealing with Stalingrad would be helping a certain dude defending a certain house...

All of this under the watchful gaze of the Commissar.

Then, you are reassigned, as an experienced officer, to one of the units leading the assault on the German Sixth Army outside Stalingrad. You go on from attacking the ring, to penetrating the Kessel and destroying the last airfield resupplying the Germans, and finally, taking Von Paulus´ command bunker.



At some point in the game, you are given the choice of killing the Commissar, or not. You get two opportunities: when he is trapped and he orders you to rescue him in a state of panic, or when you are leading the covert operation and you can target him with the Sniper Ace.

If you do it, at the end of the game, you receive a visit from the NKVD asking questions.

BAD END



If you play smart and keep him alive, he becomes a "friend" of yours, and helps you take some more steps up the Soviet Army´s command ladder thanks to his political influence.

GOOD END (you might feel like a douchebag, though)





The German campaign starts on Seelow Heights, and there are three characters involved. A German Wehrmacht officer, a Waffen SS officer, and a specially sent representative of the SS (think the equivalent of a Soviet Commissar, and yes, these guys existed though I don´t know their names). The main character is the Wehrmacht officer, and he meets the others after the defeat at Seelow Heights, when you are commanded to defend one of the "fortress cities". Anyone with a brain, however, figures out it cannot be defended, and even the SS Commissar figures that out with some persuasion.

This is when the great escape begins. You lead desperate defenses against the odds and watch German soldiers give their lives to protect the civilians or run away as cowards.

At one point, you are given a choice. Resist to the death to give time for the civilians to escape, or run away. The Waffen SS officer decides to resist with his troops, and the SS Commissar also orders him to do it (but runs away at the last moment anyway).

If you, the Wehr officer, decide to run, you go on to the next missions but lose all Waffen SS support since the Waffen SS officer is angry at you because of the losses suffered by the SS. You gain some last-ditch troops drawn from forced conscription, but they are no veterans. On the other hand, if you decide to stay, you are rescued at the last moment by the Ninth Corps (or was it Army? ). You keep your Waffen SS support and gain a few more regular units.

Gaining or losing units would mean gaining or losing access to doctrines in the last missions.

After this choice, you go on to fight in Berlin, and then form the rear of the refugee columns fleeing to the Allies. You fight in city ruins, forests in fire, and river crossings, always hounded by the Red Army.

In the final mission, you have to fight to give time to the last civilians to escape. You get two objectives:

1- Protect the road junctions until X number of civilian vehicles has escaped.
2- Keep the Wehrmacht officer alive.

If either of these objectives is not met, your character dies, and few civilians manage to get through.

The Secondary objectives are:

1- Keep the Waffen SS officer alive (he could be riding a Tiger or a Panther)
2- Something something something

If you keep the Waffen SS officer alive at the end, the cinematic shows him dressed in normal Wehrmacht uniform shaking hands with the Wehr officer before disappearing among a crowd of surrendering soldiers. The Wehr officer is taken in to talk to some nobody called Patton.

Years later, the SS Commissar that ran away is shown in civilian clothes, in a bar. A gloved hand rests on his shoulder and when he turns to look, it´s the Waffen SS officer with a sharkish grin.

Later, in a dark alleyway, a single shot sounds, and a man with the distinct silhouette of the Waffen SS officer walks away calmly. The game ends.

GOOD END (if you like douchebags being heavily implied to be dead by the hands of another douchebag)




If you don´t save the Waffen SS officer, the scene is the same for the Wehr officer. He is taken to talk to some high-ranking Allied general.

Years later, the Wehr officer is approached in the same bar as the other cinematic by the same SS Commissar. He heavily implies that he has started a new organization of questionable integrity that supposedly needs him for morale purposes and to attract new recruits. He leaves a card behind with a symbol all too familiar to the Wehr officer, and says to call him if you are interested.

The scene ends with the main character asking for a strong drink as he looks in disgust at the card... and then, either picks it up, or tears it apart (depending on whether you chose to run away in the first missions leaving the Waffen SS officer to defend the city by himself, or if you chose to resist together with him at the end).

QUESTIONABLE/ BAD END

Last edited March 14, 2010 at 10:44 PM by Saavedra

That is one hell of a post. Although i'm not sure this campaign will even have characters liek in the relic ones. But if it will have a plot, i'd like to see seperate mission and characters that rarely, if ever, interact(kind of like how the American Able(infantry) and Fox(airborne) companies mission ran parallel).

I'd like to see a Russian Guards officer as one character. This man has had his whole life torn apart by the Germans, his wife and daughter perished in Leningrad and he was fueled with revenge. He is not only interested in beating the Germans to ther own country, but crushing them into dust.

Then there is the Armoured officer. He is a simple man from the country, parents were farmers and all he thinks about are women, vodka and tank battles.

The Artillery Officer is more tame, he was a university student-made officer and maintains order in his regiment. Young and naive, but tactically brilliant.

For the Germans there would an honorable officer from the Totenkopf, appalled by the tarnish reputation of the 3.SS, he is determined to fight long and hard for both his country and his Division's honor. The last mission in the 3.SS can called "Meine Ehre heißt Treue", or "My Honor is called Loyalty", the divison's motto, it can be set in Hungary, giving to the mood of the desparate bitter fighting that took place there.

There is the Special Tank Battalion officer, who is a veteran of the war and nothing phases him now. He just wants to hold the savages back, thinking that for every day he holds the Russians back, is another day his little boy is alive.

The final officer is a young infantry officer, just barely 22, he is not a nazi by any stretch and only wants to go home and ensure the safty of his sickly mother and young wife. Young, but not stupid, he is willing to fight to the bitter end if he has to.

Last edited March 15, 2010 at 1:36 AM by Ost_Front_Soldat

first off i dont think the EF team can do professional CGI cutscenes.

second of all i dont even though if missions with multiple outcomes is possible in CoH.

The EF team can make cutscenes.  There's a tool for it.

The problem with your ideas Saavedra is that they have a massive political slant. Company of Heroes is a politically neutral game. Having your ideas implemented would change what Company Heroes is all about.

For example, your idea of having the player hold back the Soviets while the civilians evacuate doesn't feel like Company of Heroes. It feels like Goebbels' Company of Heroes. Not only is your scenario historically inaccurate but it presents to the player the fact that towards the end of the war the Nazi regime distributed propaganda that depicted the Red Army as savages and animals. While it is true that such propaganda was distributed widely in an effort to push the civilian population into a last stand to help Hitler - is this Nazi propaganda necessarily a good thing for a politically neutral game? I don't think so.

Last edited March 15, 2010 at 3:32 AM by thebomb

guynumber7 wrote:
second of all i dont even though if missions with multiple outcomes is possible in CoH.

Thing is, there are no multiple outcomes. Whatever decisions you take, you will play the same missions, but with modifications that should be doable (locking out doctrine choices was done in the original game, locking out scripts like the Commissar asking for help in the second mission if you killed him in the first should also be doable, that kind of thing).

thebomb wrote:
The problem with your ideas Saavedra is that they have a massive political slant.

I call bullshit on this. Both campaigns show both sides as the scumbags they were, and stripping World War 2 of the politics involved just serves to turn it into a frivolous cowboys and indians show.

I just happen to put choices on the hands of the players, and give them endings appropriate to their choices that are more realistic than "America saves the day!" or "Russians save the day!" or "There are no Nazis in 40s Germany!"



As for accusing these ideas of historical inaccuracy, I call DOUBLE-BULLSHIT on it. Antony Beevor is a reputed historian who covered both sides of the war through extensive research thanks to interviews with witnesses and archive searches. I trust that guy more than I am ever going to trust someone posting in a videogames forum on the Internet with Soviet-themed avatars and signatures.




Also, one more thing to clarify:

The Red Army WAS a bunch of savages and animals. The list of atrocities they committed as they rampaged through Prussia and Germany boggles the mind. They were hardly better than the Nazis, exceptions had in mind or not.

Last edited March 15, 2010 at 10:38 PM by Saavedra

Relax both of you before you both get banned. I understand where you are coming from Saaverdra, but thebomb is right. Having that in the campaign would be something that the EF team wouldn't want to do if they plan on marketing this to Relic. Even though we know that both the Russians (who felt they where in the right to do what they did because of the actions taken by the SS) and the SS did massive atrocities along with some Wehrmacht (not as many as they where everyday soldiers who wanted to keep their honor) the world today is to 'soft' in that nature and doesn't want to hear about how there where concentration camps and mass wholesale slaughter of civilians. That is today's world and unfortunately we have to abide by those 'moral' rules.  I do like your idea though, it was well thought out and rather interesting and I would love to see it implemented BUT like I said the world is to 'soft' and ignorant to understand what happened back then.

QuoteI call bullshit on this. Both campaigns show both sides as the scumbags they were...

We must have played different games then.

Quote
I just happen to put choices on the hands of the players, and give them endings appropriate to their choices that are more realistic than "America saves the day!" or "Russians save the day!" or "There are no Nazis in 40s Germany!"

Company of Heroes was never about realism. This is pretty obvious with the superhero Knight's Cross soldiers and the Soviet soldiers without weapons - it's all done in the interests of having a fun game at the expense of realism.

I would argue that "X faction saves the day!" is exactly what CoH is about. Throughout the German and American campaigns you feel like you are leading a badass group of soldiers that have this "Hollywood" feel to them. I just don't think the game would be any fun if your pseudo-historical/politically slanted campaigns were put in - that's all I'm saying.

Quote
As for accusing these ideas of historical inaccuracy, I call DOUBLE-BULLSHIT on it. Antony Beevor is a reputed historian who covered both sides of the war through extensive research thanks to interviews with witnesses and archive searches. I trust that guy more than I am ever going to trust someone posting in a videogames forum on the Internet with Soviet-themed avatars and signatures.

I don't recall mentioning Antony Beevor anywhere in my post...I have in fact read two of his books, one on Stalingrad the other on Berlin, and nowhere in those two does Beevor portray the Germans as helpless victims at the mercy of the "Asiatic Horde". I couldn't find sources for some of his figures but that's largely irrelevant unless one was trying to force a conclusion that the Red Army was a bunch of animals and savages which incidentally you have done. Bravo.

Quote
Also, one more thing to clarify:

The Red Army WAS a bunch of savages and animals. The list of atrocities they committed as they rampaged through Prussia and Germany boggles the mind. They were hardly better than the Nazis, exceptions had in mind or not.

That's quite the generalization you're making there. I'm not going to argue with you since we clearly have fundamental differences regarding the perception of the Red Army. In any event, arguing whether your missions were historically inaccurate wasn't the main point of my original post. I simply thought your ideas didn't fit with the general feel and mood of the game (as I've outline above).

Last edited March 16, 2010 at 1:02 AM by thebomb

thebomb wrote:

QuoteI call bullshit on this. Both campaigns show both sides as the scumbags they were...

We must have played different games then.

I did not mean videogame campaigns.

QuoteI just don't think the game would be any fun if your pseudo-historical/politically slanted campaigns were put in - that's all I'm saying.

I don´t understand. Where is the political slant?

QuoteI couldn't find sources for some of his figures but that's largely irrelevant unless one was trying to force a conclusion that the Red Army was a bunch of animals and savages which incidentally you have done. Bravo.

Well, they WERE. It is a generalization, of course not everybody in the Red Army was happy with raping, mutilating, burning, murdering and all the other things the Red Army did as it advanced into Germany. But if I can´t call out the Red Army´s clear inhumanity because only 40% or 30% or whatever high percentage of it was composed of people with medieval mindsets given submachineguns and free reign over the German population, then why should anyone be able to say that the Nazis were bad? Should we repeal all the sentences handed out at the Nuremberg trials because hey, maybe the guys in command were not so bad, and we can´t read minds so we should let them go?

Sure, if on a personal level you prefer to judge people by their own acts, I don´t see a problem with that. But the Red Army´s behaviour as a whole in Germany was just as barbaric, if not worse, as the German Army´s in the Soviet Union.

I wonder if there is already a German "Come and See". It would be hilarious to see the shitstorm that would arise.

QuoteThat's quite the generalization you're making there. I'm not going to argue with you since we clearly have fundamental differences regarding the perception of the Red Army. In any event, arguing whether your missions were historically inaccurate wasn't the main point of my original post. I simply thought your ideas didn't fit with the general feel and mood of the game (as I've outline above).

But you did say that my ideas were historically inaccurate. It is right there in your post. That´s why I bothered writing about that. If you had not written that, I would not have replied, would I?





As for the feel and mood of the game, that´s funny, vCoH is far more politically slanted than my ideas. The Americans are suffering saints, the British are pip-pip cheerio laddies, and the Germans are either silent monsters of destruction (the Tiger commander from the American campaign) or the poor but stiff defenders of a doomed regime under the command of indifferent assholes (PE campaign). The most balanced portrayal seems to be in the British campaign, mostly because they don´t bother giving the Germans any character at all.

It is all a bunch of stereotypes. I don´t see why my ideas are worse than those when, at the very worst, they are on an equal level.

You both raise good points, however, this is getting horribly off-topic.

Saavedra, what I'm getting at is that you're trying to insert a message into your missions (regardless of its historical accuracy, let's not debate that right now) into a game that is free of such messages. Your "help the German civilians escape from the evil Red Army" is a perfect example. Does vCoH have missions where the Germans are trying to evacuate Dresden from relentless American firebombing of civilians? No. Does vCoH have missions where we see German soldiers committing war crimes? No. That's not what this game is about.

Guys Chill out and knock it off. This has gone way to far off topic. If you want to discuss this topic take it to the Historical Part of the forums.

thebomb wrote:
Saavedra, what I'm getting at is that you're trying to insert a message into your missions (regardless of its historical accuracy, let's not debate that right now) into a game that is free of such messages. Your "help the German civilians escape from the evil Red Army" is a perfect example. Does vCoH have missions where the Germans are trying to evacuate Dresden from relentless American firebombing of civilians? No. Does vCoH have missions where we see German soldiers committing war crimes? No. That's not what this game is about.

What is your point? You are talking about vCoH, this is EF mod. It uses the CoH engine and game mechanics, graphics, etc. There is no partnership with Relic and their campaign-design team.

Ost_Front_Soldat wrote:

thebomb wrote:
Saavedra, what I'm getting at is that you're trying to insert a message into your missions (regardless of its historical accuracy, let's not debate that right now) into a game that is free of such messages. Your "help the German civilians escape from the evil Red Army" is a perfect example. Does vCoH have missions where the Germans are trying to evacuate Dresden from relentless American firebombing of civilians? No. Does vCoH have missions where we see German soldiers committing war crimes? No. That's not what this game is about.

What is your point? You are talking about vCoH, this is EF mod. It uses the CoH engine and game mechanics, graphics, etc. There is no partnership with Relic and their campaign-design team.

The modders have on multiple occasions stated that they would like to retain the feel of vCoH and make it as authentic to the original game as possible - as if it were an expansion made by Relic. Having that in mind I would imagine whatever campaign missions were put into the mod, they would have the same politically neutral feel of vCoH's missions. That's my point.

Saavedra wrote:
I would have it so the player has to protect certain road junctions through which trucks full of civilians are passing. The trucks come in from the sides of the map, heading south. The Russians come in from the north.

As time goes by, Russian attacks are harder to resist, and you will eventually lose junctions. The goal would be to have a set number of civilian vehicles evacuate through your lines. The more junctions you hold, the more civilian vehicles spawn and the faster the evacuation proceeds.

Holding on to all junctions would be possible and make the evacuation proceed faster, but it would strain your resources and you might find yourself surprised by sudden, overwhelming attacks, losing more ground (and maybe even junctions) than if you chose to abandon one or two of them in favour of having a stronger defense in all the others.

If you manage to save the minimum number of requested vehicles, you get a good end. If you don´t, you get a bad end.

I more or less have ideas for how I would structure the campaigns, but without access to Antony Beevor´s books where I am living right now, I can´t explore all the possibilities.

I like the idea... except for the whole "protecting civilians" part. Yeah, it would be more historically accurate but not very CoH-like. Instead of civilians, make them wounded soldiers and damaged vehicles retreating like the last ToV Trun mission.

This got boring in the middle of page two lol

Okay,these civilians are escaping,but where?I thought Berlin was surrounded.

I have got my own and inspired suggestion about Red Army campaign,but I have to go now :P Later...

Berlin was indeed surrounded, but some breakout attempts succeeded before the last days. Civilians also escaped from other cities. Their destination was Allied-occupied territory.

Personally campaign-wise I'd like to see something containing both vCoH base building type missions and a few more small scale ToV type ones aswell. Might aswell have the best of both worlds.

Also include both early war and late war scenarios, possibly through "flashback" sequences if going the whole-hog with story and characters etc.

I made a more detailed outline of this idea in an old post somewhere, but its late and I cant be bothered to dig it out.

The flashback missions would be black and white though...snazzy  :P

As far as the whole content debate/argument going on here, whilst it would add an "interesting" slant to a campaign, its not really in fitting with CoH.

If people want real politics and history they should get it from books and documentaries, not computer games where the main point is to kill as many little pixel men as you can.

The jarring reality of war and "OMG!!1 Did you see how many tommies my V1 just pwned1!" dont really fit together too well, in my mind atleast  :)

Cheers

Coh dosent give up realism for fun, it turns realism INTO fun.

When I talk, the No one respones to a topic anymore. Lol. :(

Hmm, what about a basic 'Tutorial' Mission for the Soviet's based in the Invasion of Poland? I've always wanted to see that in any MOD.

you guys raised some pretty good suggestions...all we need to do now is integrate the missions themselves with unit tutorials, like in vCOH. ;) here's my idea as an example:

for the Ostheer:

<Intro of events from Operation Barbarossa up to Siege of Leningrad>
Mission 1: Strangling Lenin (Siege of Leningrad)
Goal: Leichte Feldhaubitze Artillery tutorial - Master the use of precision artillery strikes, fire-support and counter-battery fire.
Main Objectives:
- capture all 4 strategic points.
- destroy 5 tank factories.
- destroy the main food depot.
- eliminate 8 artillery emplacements.
- eliminate all 4 large static emplacements.
Secondary Objectives:
- defend artillery from aerial attacks. (Luftwaffe Anti-Aircraft Badge)
- defend forward observation post from partisan attacks. (Close Combat Badge)

Last edited May 16, 2010 at 2:20 AM by Werwolf

luz777 wrote:
Personally campaign-wise I'd like to see something containing both vCoH base building type missions and a few more small scale ToV type ones aswell. Might aswell have the best of both worlds.

this is somewhat what I was thinking of, I would love to see Ostheer/Soviet campaigns that are as long as the Opposing Fronts ones and have "the best of both worlds", but in the fun perspective I would really love to see a Prequel to the Tiger-Ace TOV campaign, in other words, the chance of controlling Hauptmann Voss' Tigergruppe on the Eastern Front, in a way of capturing the idea of how they really became one of the best tank crews on the Eastern Front.


Btw Werwolf, I like the idea of that Ostheer mission in Leningrad :)

S1lv3rWolf wrote:
I would really love to see a Prequel to the Tiger-Ace TOV campaign, in other words, the chance of controlling Hauptmann Voss' Tigergruppe on the Eastern Front, in a way of capturing the idea of how they really became one of the best tank crews on the Eastern Front.

Thought I might add that Hauptmann Voss from Tiger ace is the Commander in OMG Campaign. Also the gunner (I think, Sch something is his name) is in the Normandy Campaign (He's the guy that kills the Captain, later being killed in Autry).