Soviet machine gun

RUSSIAN ARMY IN WW2 IN COLUR \ ВТОРАЯ МИРОВАЯ В ЦВЕТЕ-РОССИЯ
Quite well, there was do soviet side a heavy machine gun!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DS-39

http://9e-maya.ru/forum/index.php?topic=465.0
;D

Last edited February 1, 2010 at 8:44 PM by Savatiy

Maybe a mobile HMG should replace MG Dugout, it already costs 3pop, and it would be a nice change since no one is building MG Dugout`s . ..

Last edited January 26, 2010 at 5:26 PM by Capt. Malashenko

no MG for the soviets, please stop that!

I agree. All factions need those kind of defences. And soviets early defences suffer from this, as the MGs are very important in the begining!

What about "Maxim"?

not portable enough this game in general does not like to take that into account like how the heavy mortar needed to be wheeled and was a pain on rough ground, towed, or broken into 4 parts. The DS-39 on the other hand is rape damage wise compared ALL the infantry Mg's in the game. The PE are the same way though they do not have machine guns at all and even the FlaKvierling gets pwned so easily while the mg bunker does not get killed so easily. They both have strong inf early game pretty well matched in the end, a 3 man gewhr squad is overmatched by matched against 2 conscript squads a lot of the time and their starting resource is MUCH lower as well as Soviet infantry rush ability is crazy early game once the heroic charge comes up.

2 conscripts = 400mp.

quite a bit more than 255mp for Pgs.  You probably didnt count the command squad in there too.

Pgs IMO rape conscripts.

basic369 wrote:
I agree. All factions need those kind of defences.

The difference would be that the Maxim could'nt take cover in a building, first.
Then it would be like an AT gun (ans as slow as it). And it could be a reward unit who would replace the doctrine's MG Nest?

(Sorry if my english is bad)

Last edited January 27, 2010 at 11:55 AM by Laufer.fr

its called the T-90 people

the soviets DO NOT need an early mg that isnt doctrinal.  the PE dont have one because they are an agressive faction, and it works fine.  its the same thing with the russians. if you really want to bunker down go the doctrine that allows it.  the t90 also suppress after a bit.

WhiteFlash wrote:
the soviets DO NOT need an early mg that isnt doctrinal.  the PE dont have one because they are an agressive faction, and it works fine.  its the same thing with the russians. if you really want to bunker down go the doctrine that allows it.  the t90 also suppress after a bit.

Basically what I was trying to say thanks

Use the T-90. Rush it into enemy infantry, suppress, and let the Strelkys and mortars deal with them.

I already made this comment a while back you could have just went through the "suggestion" area and found it

Or maybe just give them the option to steal heavy mgs?

Problem solved, if they are foolish enough to lose them to conscripts in the early game and they remain intact then they should be able to use them.

agreed... the Russians cant capture any object, no mortar, mg, At's, accept guns like MG42s ,panzershreks,  etc...

LOL!!!! You arent satisfied with the artillery style mortar?? LOL, that thing makes up for the fact you dont have an MG. If that comes into the issue they will have to take your mortar away and make the Artillery instillation part of the "Propganda" or "Cuty Fighting" Doctrine. Besides....cmon, did the Russians actually use the MG against the Germans? If anything it will be used to kill your own suppressed infantry  :P

[Don't worry for all you history nutjobs, I joking, Im majoring in history in College, but I can joke about things]

When i see a Nebel without its crew, i put mines behind it, and I wait  :)

Because the German players know that  soviets can't recrew heavy guns, they try to recrew it themselves.

So the soviet player just need to wait for the german near empty weapons  :)

(Sorry for my english)

Laufer.fr wrote:
When i see a Nebel without its crew, i put mines behind it, and I wait  :)

Because the German players know that  soviets can't recrew heavy guns, they try to recrew it themselves.

So the soviet player just need to wait for the german near empty weapons  :)

(Sorry for my english)

haha! what a good idea, i mean about mines behind empy nebel =))))) yes soviet sniper can wait for the crew 2 play with them. =)

okay than there is PLAN B!!!!

ever heard of the GAZ AA Mg truck? i perfer this because it has a double AA machine gun... like:
-250 Mp
-15 Fuel
- pop: 3

Saavedra wrote:
Use the T-90. Rush it into enemy infantry, suppress, and let the Strelkys and mortars deal with them.

yes. but T90 become too late!

efx wrote:

Saavedra wrote:
Use the T-90. Rush it into enemy infantry, suppress, and let the Strelkys and mortars deal with them.

yes. but T90 become too late!

not really.........Skip the 2nd building go straight for the tanks

ford_prefect wrote:

efx wrote:

Saavedra wrote:
Use the T-90. Rush it into enemy infantry, suppress, and let the Strelkys and mortars deal with them.

yes. but T90 become too late!

not really.........Skip the 2nd building go straight for the tanks

yes I agree, but you haven't AT power. PUMA or STUG and you die.

The problem is early game to middle game.
Incredible power of MG42 pin your troops and all unit die.
sniper+volkgrenadier prevent all flank from command squads or other unit. All this whermacht unit are formed in T1 krieg barracks.

Free arty have a long recharge and avoid it with simple retreat button (shit I'm a soviet! don't have).

I wholly agree, but I am gonna be a specifics nazi and say that it's the Werhmacht Quarters no the Krieg barracks :P

Once again I remind of necessity to include in initial armies a machine gun!
DS-39



Degtyarev DP DPM RP-46
http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg34-e.htm[/url]

Last edited January 31, 2010 at 5:09 PM by Savatiy

SauerKRAUT wrote:
I wholly agree, but I am gonna be a specifics nazi and say that it's the Werhmacht Quarters no the Krieg barracks :P

ops! obviously T1 building.

Technically, the command squad can easily overwhelm MG positions that the Wehrmacht put up.

I've noticed with Russians, rather than advancing slowly, I send in Conscripts early on and do whatever I can to impede their advance while I am moving up with the better troops. If it works, naturally, they're weaker than they normally would be, turning it into more of a mop-up operation.

The lack of an MG may seem like a disadvantage, but the Soviets have ways to deal with them. Given, you need either the Command Squad or get the T2 building of theirs and use their artillery mortars against them; but the point being, if you move fast enough, smart enough, and stealthy enough in the beginning, you're probably going to overwhelm them.

HaroldSax wrote:
Technically, the command squad can easily overwhelm MG positions that the Wehrmacht put up.

I've noticed with Russians, rather than advancing slowly, I send in Conscripts early on and do whatever I can to impede their advance while I am moving up with the better troops. If it works, naturally, they're weaker than they normally would be, turning it into more of a mop-up operation.

The lack of an MG may seem like a disadvantage, but the Soviets have ways to deal with them. Given, you need either the Command Squad or get the T2 building of theirs and use their artillery mortars against them; but the point being, if you move fast enough, smart enough, and stealthy enough in the beginning, you're probably going to overwhelm them.

yes, technically. ;)
the problem is in early game, with only T1 for me and axis.
If MG42 leave alone --> no problem
sniper+volk+MG42 in a cut off point ---> ouch! :'(

If soviets have a Machine Gun, probably could better defend cut off point.

Mg42+volk+sniper+flak+mortar => ouch more!!!

PSIHOPAT wrote:
Mg42+volk+sniper+flak+mortar => ouch more!!!

You thing we get it for free on start?

Nothing is free in this game or this world.

But if russian army encounter that force will be unable to survive...is minimal possibility of victory...or will be very costly....

That mix can be made without much effort or price,and will make  russians to be almost unable to stop them....or will pay great for attempt...

Russians will loose about three time manpower in the attempt to stop that small aggressive german force.In this time,german manpower will go for another units or upgrades,and russians just will struggle for survive.

That force will make massacre and very easy can be reinforced with another 1-2 pack,or mortar,or MG-42,or snipers....or whatever will be need...and after support from few armored vehicle....russian fate will be even more worse...and germans seems to be always  able to bring more fast armored cars or tanks in battle...

After any confrontation between that mix of german army and russian force,in early game...germans will loose very few units,able to be reinforced fast after retreat command,and continue onslaught....and other side will suffer horrible...and will be very hard to counter the threat,and go to counter attack with powerful force....

Last edited February 1, 2010 at 5:38 PM by PSIHOPAT

I personally think the Soviets need an MG. Hard not to get swamped early game.

Anyway, I noticed that a model of a Soviet MG was made, but not put in the game?

Perhaps one could choose between having MGs or Mortars.

Just a thought.

yeah I dont understand your english at all.

Okay, so still no idea what this guy is going about but whatever.

Soviets need an MG. Would be great.

Savatiy wrote:
ATTENTION!
I declare strike! I will not eat, smoke, drink beer, to have sex with the girl and to play Eastern Front until then yet will not make for Soviets army MG DS-39!

ok well the food I understand the drinking is usualy a good thing to off the smoking to but the other things no no no no! you know they wont add a mg dude

Yeah soviets definetely need an MG, because there is no way to suppress enemy units in early-game...only way is with a Guards upgraded to Shock Guards and that happens in mid-game or even in late-game. Soviet troops are very vulnerable, weak and need support so why not with an MG? I mean US have MG squad, Wehr have MG squad, Brits have a Bren and PE have a Infantry halftrack. All of these units can suppress and are early-game support for the infantry...so why not an MG for soviets as well??

Hi,

Try four units of conscripts with one motar ....

Regards
funnyme

Laufer.fr wrote:

basic369 wrote:
I agree. All factions need those kind of defences.

The difference would be that the Maxim could'nt take cover in a building, first.
Then it would be like an AT gun (ans as slow as it). And it could be a reward unit who would replace the doctrine's MG Nest?

(Sorry if my english is bad)

i aggray with your idee, there are not yet reward yet.
but can only propagando stragegy make these heavy MG's?

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Savatiy wrote:
Once again I remind of necessity to include in initial armies a machine gun!
DS-39



Degtyarev DP DPM RP-46
http://world.guns.ru/machine/mg34-e.htm[/url]

this 1 look's better.
btw think this 1 can fit i a building

Last edited February 6, 2010 at 10:20 PM by 1richard

Other way

This one have AA job

PSIHOPAT wrote:
This one have AA job

So do Bofors, Ostwind, Wirbelwind, Quad MG Halftrack, and Flakvierling, and what is their primary purpose in CoH? It sure isn't shooting down planes.

Because planes have little importance in this game,more or less.

Planes are used in very small proportion.

New revolutionary concept about air battle and struggle for air superiority,would make EF truly without equal.

My point is, what is wrong with an AA tripod MG to shoot infantry?

Is a matter of logic.
Why is need two types of tripods where one is enough for both jobs ?
Simple.

AA tripod don't allow to MG to target and kill ground units,and expose soldiers to high risk to be shotted.

Tripod against infantry,don't give possibility to target planes,or is very limited this possibility.

Last edited February 7, 2010 at 1:26 PM by PSIHOPAT

unbelievable that people who actually should be
thinking about balance are suggesting a MG for the soviets.

The soviets are the most multiplex faction by far ingame.
Who doesnt see that is just a guy who just wants a MG. if you got what i wanna say.

There is only one way to include the mg, and thats the way replacing the mortal. Adding it the usual way what just be rediculous.

What you talk about ?

Russia don't have many things....
If Mg will be added will be no unbalance.

All other factions have that weapon,and mortars,light vehicle,and armored cars,and tanks,and AT,and better snipers useful also as scouts,and infantry,and howitzer,and is no problem.

Why this will unbalance the game?You can explain ?

Just to name a few pionts, i will compare the soviets with the PE to show you the problem.

Take a look at thier units:

- the soviets got a commando squard which pwn pritty much everything at start
- the soviets have a mortel which costs only manpower and powns the PE one easily.
- the Soviets have tankhunters, ok - the PE got schrecks, but the soviets also got a PAK! (this is one hell of a piont) that means the pe do need to build a marder which costs a lot of fuel (remember, you need a upgrade to get it) the pak only costs manpower, and it costs less than the schreck troops you can build right away.
- the soviets got a heavy buildable art. , PE doesnt even think about having that.
- at least the soviets got super heavy tanks, even buildable.
that powns hell out of the PE.
- and also man, the pe doesnt got a MG which costs only manpower.

But man please, you should know that by youself. Every faction should have something the others dont have. That makes them unique, and gives them tactics to beat the other faction on their very own way. If you give one faction everything, its just boring and unbalanced as well, and just as i said - the soviets are by far the most complex faction already.
This is how it is and how it should be. if you dont like that you dont like funplay!

Soviet need MGs because the only building which can suppress infantry is the MGBunker, and its a doctrinal building which cost 300 MP, 15 fuel and... 3 population.

MGBunker should stay a doctrinal building, but it shouldnt cost 3 population.

I think soviet mobile MG should be a universal unit, which can be upgrade for 200 munition and available in support center.
I propose: MG squad- 3 or 4 men

1 guy with a maxima PM1910, which cannot go in building
2 or 3 guy with mosin nagant

the squad cost 250 or 300 MP, and it can be upgrade for 200 munition: the maxima PM1910 is replace by a Dshk (or something that is more efficient/modern), and a other guy join the squad.

with this support, soviet can suppress ennemy infantry, but if I am for a soviet MG, I dont know if its very, very unbalance for the game. What do you think?

PS: PE is an aggressive faction, and even if the halftrack is costly for early game, its also a powerful unit, which can rape any soviet infantry except tank hunters, so ... 

Red_Stinger wrote:
Soviet need MGs because the only building which can suppress infantry is the MGBunker

Not every faction needs something which can supress, the soviets got enough to do it another way.

Ok.

Agree...if you think if giving MG to USSR,will make them to be OP or appear "boring" or not different from others.You say that because don't like to play with Russia...just against...but no matter...

I come now with a suggestion,for strengthening the russians in  the point where they was historical superior.This point is SNIPING.

Lets give to partisans one sniper in the team.Sniper team to be the most effective in accuracy and rate of fire,and to have two snipers...with cost increased for balance and without ability to walk camouflaged how they are.

Russian snipers was the worst nightmare for germans,if you don't know that.In Russia allot of civilians was very good snipers.Childrens and females armed with sniped rifles was a pain even for elite german soldiers. 

Watch this
Stalin's sharpshooters! ww2 Russian snipers

russian female sniper, ww2, gudovantseva

Soviet Partisans Tribute

Also this documentary.Is formed by 5 parts.Watch them all.you will understand something after that.
Battlefields Stalingrad 1/ 5

Last edited February 7, 2010 at 7:35 PM by PSIHOPAT

The only way to suppress for soviet is to build a T-90, which come later than other MGs, and half track.

T-90 is useless: mini 145 fuel to build it, it can suppress infantry with some difficulties and 2 hit of schreks mean dead for him.
So soviet need another weapon to suppress early infantry.

A soviet player has no chance vs a german player who know what he do: soviet infantry cant retreat, mean that they need officer or "For the motherland!" abilitie to go out from MG. german player can destroy every soviet unit in the early game, and whereas soviet player is building a new army, the other can capture some position and make tanks, arti, etc with some veterancy upgrade.