IS-2 OP!!!

I understand this tank is "beast" with thick armor and one of the largest guns in the game HOWEVER, in playing a game the other day with my brother we as the Germans had 2 panthers a jagdpanther with attack2 and def1 and my bro had a Tiger with full vet and 2 squads of full attack vet PE gren with 8+ AT. Ok... so we were fighting 3 IS-2 tanks and tired to target them one at a time... result... NOT ONE IS-2 died and we lost every tank and my inf had to retreat!

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Ok replying to my own post but I forgot to make a possible balance suggestion. Perhaps some changes to the damage the IS-2 takes... the biggest issue I see that the damn thing doesn't die. Plus a limit on how many of these monsters can be on the field my be a good idea. I have seen as many as 5 at a time really that is like the germans having 5 tigers on the field!

Last edited January 24, 2010 at 3:36 PM by firefree

so just asking, you had 2 Panthers+Jagdpanther+Tiger+infantry Vs 3 IS-2? And you lost? Do you still have a replay?

2 panthers owns my IS-2... and u couldnt destroy 3 IS-2 WITH GERMAN MIGHTY ARMY?! MAN ... u suck more than I do...

2 Panthers win against 1 IS-2 yes but, that's not how its supposed to be...
The IS has been adjusted for the next patch

wish I had the replay but I don't think I saved it. The biggest issue is that the IS-2 doesn't take much damage. The panzershrek teams seem to be more effective but at one point in the same game I had 3 full vet PE teams with 8+ damage fire 4 times each into rear armor and the IS-2 still had enough life to crawl away! The problem then was his sniper ace started shooting up my inf and I had to run too.

OMG stop, what do you want? Killing the IS 2 in one shot.

I have killed a IS 2 with a Panther just by micro so man, try to improve your skill before crying et saying that it is op.

Give us replays (not particularly of that game) and try to play Soviet Union against good wehr opponents.

I really can`t understand why so many people have difficulty playing against the Soviets? And calling every unit OP?But I agree on one, IS-2 is a heavy tank and it should have some limits in numbers deployed. Spamming IS-2 became  a wide practice...

Mr Iglooman,

I am not saying they cannot be killed. I have killed many! The problem is they move faster than most german tanks and are just as deadly, plus their armor seems WAY better. Like I said before. Post a replay of your conquests with your magic panther, because I have not seen that be affective and yet I mirco too bro everyone does. That is not the issue. Just played a game right now where again my ally had the King tiger and shells were bouncing off the IS-2 I used anti tank nades, and had 3 squads of panzershrek teams with 8+ attack hit it 4 times THEN I had my marder come from behind and FINALLY kill the damn thing.

2 PaK`s + inf for distraction, that all i need to kill IS-2...

"I had my marder come from behind and FINALLY kill the damn thing."

Understood? You have to flank in order to win. The IS2 is not fast at all, it is not slow too but a panther is faster and can flank it in a 1vs1.

Right, don't keep stressing about the IS-2...it's been tweaked. Shreks. If you're used to late game WH armour dominating...get over it...

No matter how many hitpoints the IS has an AT Halftrack will still immobilize it and you can pound it to death with a sighted marder

Too many people got used that German tanks are indestructible, and now it sucks for them when they encounter Soviet tanks with same approach. Get use to it, IS-2 is not Sherman or Churchill and you can`t destroy it that easily.
@Zerstorer: you reminded me on a game when I deployed 2 Su-100 and IS-2, but run into a well placed minefield, all tanks immobilized and slaughtered by 1 PaK and some Shrecks, ahh, good game dough ...

I lol'd at this thread because I enjoy the challenge of 3 IS-2s in a tank battle, I hate to say it but this mod has increased infantry spam BUT the Armor spam has gotten even more :D makes my CoH dreams come true

Candy for the Panzers, xa? I love the Soviets, gameplay is definitely a pleasant surprise, I`m just sorry not many people use T-70/90, they are very useful and fast, but most players just save fuel for IS-2, not even T-34 made it`s "grand" appearance, a pity really...

I generally use 3-4 T-34s with an IS-2 in support, the T34s flank while the IS2 take the brunt of the damage, people think "HOLY CRAP!!! IS-2!!! We have to aim for it first!!!" While the T-34s are running around shooting you in the ass :p

the germans are still indestructible we just need manuvers like han solo when he listed to the left to avoid the star destroyers what we need to do is

1.get there equal example a t34/80 is equal to a panzer iv the is-2 = panther
2.get more there units cost about the same just get 1 more
3.get the equal vet the t34 has vet 2 so we need that to beat them
4.the last thing use manuverse even moving to there sides can cause them to get outmanuvered they don't seem to be able to hit while moving

Last edited January 24, 2010 at 7:02 PM by cts321

hgghg4 wrote:
"HOLY CRAP!!! IS-2!!! We have to aim for it first!!!"

Xaxaaa, when I choose Breakthrough Strategy I usually take Tank Riders + 2 T-90`s as mechanised patrol, and use Conscripts to find week spots in Axis defenses to rush through. They can have as many Panthers and KT`s as they want, but they can`t make it  everywhere :)

cts321 wrote:

1.get there equal example a t34/80 is equal is a panzer iv the is-2 = panther

Hardly, IS-2 is better against inf and paks then Panther, but Panther is faster, I really can`t compere those two

Last edited January 24, 2010 at 7:04 PM by Capt. Malashenko

im a tank whore I won't lie... even in VCoH I will use tanks more often then not (Shermans(USA), CROMWELLS(I hate roos), P4s(Wehr) and Panthers(PE))

Capt. wrote:

hgghg4 wrote:
"HOLY CRAP!!! IS-2!!! We have to aim for it first!!!"

Xaxaaa, when I choose Breakthrough Strategy I usually take Tank Riders + 2 T-90`s as mechanised patrol, and use Conscripts to find week spots in Axis defenses to rush through. They can have as many Panthers and KT`s as they want, but they can`t make it  everywhere :)

cts321 wrote:

1.get there equal example a t34/80 is equal is a panzer iv the is-2 = panther

Hardly, IS-2 is better against inf and paks then Panther, but Panther is faster, I really can`t compere those two

i told you to use that speed and to outnumber

I was referring to IS-2 = Panther, IS-2 is heavy tank and Panther medium, they can`t be equal in any aspect, and using Tank Hunters is more thankful, they`ll rip any tank a part. 

I think that tank hunters should have great effectiveness against light armor but do nothing against heavy armor

Capt. wrote:
I was referring to IS-2 = Panther, IS-2 is heavy tank and Panther medium, they can`t be equal in any aspect, and using Tank Hunters is more thankful, they`ll rip any tank a part.

all heavy tanks can crush tank traps panthers can and it says they are heavy tanks you are thinking of the panzer IV

If I`m not mistaken, panther was considered by Germans as medium, while Tigers and Jagdh`s were heavy.
See for your self under >type<
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panther_tank

Edit: But, you`r right, it has heavy crush, but that still doesn`t make it comparable to IS-2.

Last edited January 24, 2010 at 7:33 PM by Capt. Malashenko

The IS2 was just plain big...

hgghg4 wrote:
I think that tank hunters should have great effectiveness against light armor but do nothing against heavy armor

True, Tank hunters are too strong against every vehicle and building, and yes, IS-2 like`s making an entry  ;D

Capt. wrote:
If I`m not mistaken, panther was considered by Germans as medium, while Tigers and Jagdh`s were heavy.
See for your self under >type<
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panther_tank

Edit: But, you`r right, it has heavy crush, but that still doesn`t make it comparable to IS-2.

The Panther tank was a compromise of various requirements. While sharing essentially the same engine as the Tiger I tank, it had better frontal armor, better gun penetration, was lighter overall and thus faster, and could handle rough terrain better than the Tigers. The tradeoff was weaker side armor; the Panther proved to be deadly in open country and shooting from long range, but vulnerable to close-quarters combat
its combat capabilities led directly to the introduction of heavier Allied tanks such as the IS-2 and the M26 Pershing into the war
it may as well be a heavy tank

If you kept reading you would find out why it was referd as "medium" even if his weight was well over weight of Allied medium tanks, IS-2 and M26 appeared after the Allies realized they need bigger shell`s nad more explosive  against fortifications and infantry as well as higher armor penetration witch came as bonus.

i know but it caused 3 entire armies to build vehicals to combat them they had shaped warfare to the point the is-2 was made it caused the russins to realize they couldn't win with numbers it cause heavy tanks to be 70ton steel monters so powerful nobody dare apose them

At 400 less hitpoints...you better learn to use those ISs with more care  ;)...

cts321 wrote:
i know but it caused 3 entire armies to build vehicals to combat them they had shaped warfare to the point the is-2 was made it caused the russins to realize they couldn't win with numbers it cause heavy tanks to be 70ton steel monters so powerful nobody dare apose them

And both the panther and tiger were built as a direct result of how overwhelmingly superior the t34 was to anything the Germans had on the field in 1941. That still doesn't make the t34 a heavy tank.

Zerstörer wrote:
At 400 less hitpoints...you better learn to use those ISs with more care  ;)...

WAIT WHAT!?!?!?! I didn't see that in the changelog... What was it before and what is it now?

Last edited January 24, 2010 at 8:14 PM by w00tm0ng3r

how about we agree that the power and armor is similer to heavy tanks and that they are capible in real life to compare them

hey i can't get online i get stuck at the log in it ether causes me to have a sign in time of forever or my profile is buisse and i can't play

Iglooman wrote:
Understood? You have to flank in order to win.

complot! that's historically false! Soviet tanks didn't have to be flanked by Tigers or Panthers! That's just wrong!

after the Panthers and Tigers were deployed on the battlefield, all Russian tanks could be eleminated at distances, where enemy tanks couldn't even aim at...the 75mm KwK 40 (one of the most powerful anti tank guns employed during WW2) could kill any soviet tank at two miles away! it just can't be right that a Tiger/Panther has to flank a soviet tank... that is ridiculous!

I've read quite alot of literature on World War II and all of the literature I have read, depict the Tiger as SUPERIOR! or are you telling me WW2 history is fake? There are no such thing as nazi party and hitler did not exist. We are brain washed to believe in this lie. LOL

T34s had to flank the Tiger... Shermans had to flank tigers.... but the Tiger itself... was not forced to flank any enemy tank at all! WHAT A BULLSHIT!

I have not tried playing with the new patch yet... but i hope after the patch the IS-2 will be limited! It's power is comparable to a Tiger and you can have ..how many?...5 IS-2s on the battlefield WTF.

Last edited January 24, 2010 at 8:27 PM by BlackDahliaMurder

I think they ment you`ll make more damage to Soviet tanks if you flank them, for everything else you`r right, Panther/Tiger gun range sucks, PaK has bigger range that that, I mean wtf?

Capt. wrote:
Too many people got used that German tanks are indestructible, and now it sucks for them when they encounter Soviet tanks with same approach.

ok LOL what are you trying to tell us by this, Malashenko?
IT IS A HISTORICAL FACT, GERMAN TANKS WERE SUPERIOR OF COURSE. FACE IT.

Capt. wrote:
Get use to it, IS-2 is not Sherman or Churchill and you can`t destroy it that easily.

halfway true. most anti tank guns (used in medium tanks) had some difficults to penetrate 120mm of sloped armor, true. But that's only for medium tank guns, 88mm and 75mm kwk 40 could deal with this easilly anyway.

Capt. Malashenko,

Good point.  Perhaps we were used to the german tanks being top dog.  We will have to adapt, tread-buster plus marder is a good suggestion Zerstörer. 

BlackDahliaMurder wrote:
ok LOL what are you trying to tell us by this, Malashenko?
IT IS A HISTORICAL FACT, GERMAN TANKS WERE SUPERIOR OF COURSE. FACE IT.

Capt. wrote:
Get use to it, IS-2 is not Sherman or Churchill and you can`t destroy it that easily.

halfway true. most anti tank guns (used in medium tanks) had some difficults to penetrate 120mm of sloped armor, true. But that's only for medium tank guns, 88mm and 75mm kwk 40 could deal with this easilly anyway.

Can I lol at you? Did you know the Panther was designed based off of the T-34/76? Bet you didn't... The T-34/76s where so effective when they where first introduced that the Germans lost Tank superiority until the Panther and Tiger took the field, but by then the T-34s where up gunned to the 85mm Air Defense Cannon similar to that on the SU-85 giving them the ability to effectively counter the German Heavy armor with the exception of the Tiger and KT. But for the sake of Game Balance keep it the way it is stat wise :)

COH ain't about historical accuracy...it doesn't really come into play that much...more like...loose guide lines. It's all about game/faction balance

As for german tanks being superior in WW2...well...not really. During the war it was an up and down situation.
What made the real difference was the tank/combined arms tactics and crew training that Germans had were considerably better than other countries for the most part

Last edited January 24, 2010 at 9:01 PM by Zerstörer

Zerstörer wrote:
COH ain't about historical accuracy...it doesn't really come into play that much...more like...loose guide lines. It's all about game/faction balance

This exactly. Case in point: the upgunned puma and the pak use the exact same gun. World of difference. The Tiger I and the flak 88 also use for all intents and purposes the exact same gun. World of difference.

And zerstorer can you elaborate on the Is2's health? I didn't see any mention of it getting docked 400 hp in the changelog, just a increased mp cost.

And hgghg4, the Germans didn't LOSE tank superiority when the T-34 came out because they never HAD it until 1942. The main reason everyone laughs at the French military is because they got wtfpwned in 6 weeks despite crushing numerical and tank quality superiority (you know there's a problem when you have to get within 100 meters AND make a perfect 90 degree shot to the SIDE of an enemy LIGHT tank to kill it) and a number of allies.

All I have to say on the topic is that people playing as wehrmact and panzer elite have to get out of the mindset that their tanks are the best. Get a reality check the soviets designed their tanks to go toe to toe with panzers, IS-2s were meant to combat Panthers and Tigers, upgunned T-34's were meant to take out Panzer IVs and Panthers. Sure I think the IS-2 is just a little bit too good but now you can finally have tanks to take out playing as the Axis because british and american players don't get tanks because theirs can't stand up to the Axis'.


Speech over.

Haven't had time to look at the stats just finishing a game, but seemed like my StuG (V3) had better penetration vs the IS2 than my two Panthers and a Tiger. I'd engage with the Panthers/Tiger to take the damage while the StuG rolled out and finished the threat. Over the course of the game (2v2), I lost 3 StuGs while the Soviets lost 2 IS2s, 4 SU, 1 KV, and 5 T-34/76.

While the IS2 does need balancing (my StuGs were lost early on, being 3-4 shotted by the IS2), it comes down to better tactics (just like WWII for the historical-reasoning crowd).

The BIG problem I keep running into is that the hulls of everything from IS2s to Katyushas act as super tank traps. Maybe it's just me, but when I can't run a T-34 through a Katyusha wreck or a KT through the burnt hull of a SU, especially on some of the EF maps, it seems very shenanigany.

hgghg4 wrote:
Can I lol at you? Did you know the Panther was designed based off of the T-34/76? Bet you didn't... The T-34/76s where so effective when they where first introduced that the Germans lost Tank superiority until the Panther and Tiger took the field, but by then the T-34s where up gunned to the 85mm Air Defense Cannon similar to that on the SU-85 giving them the ability to effectively counter the German Heavy armor with the exception of the Tiger and KT. But for the sake of Game Balance keep it the way it is stat wise :)

Haha no first i lol at you. Only because the Panther had angled armour doesn't mean it was influenced by the T34 at all. Many other tanks had angled armor before the T34 was designed. the Russians didn't invent sloped armour! And the T34 was also NOT the first tank in the world with angled armour on it. many other tanks with angled armor were built when the t34 was not even invented. It's ridiculous how you think the Russians invented everything lol.

Not only Tiegrs and panthers were superior to the T34. Almost EVERY german tank after 1943 was far superior. Only the upgunned Panzer IV with the long barrel had better firepower and bettera rmor as well (even though it was vertical but it was still 80mm thick!)

it's nothing special that T34s were superior to the light armored/armed Panzer II and IIIs. Panzer II was only armed with machine guns which was not even designed to fight against enemy tanks so it's not a real match.

guess why the T34 and all other russian tanks had good mobility. Right, because of Christie's suspension system. It was developed by the American Walter Christie who created the gear system for all russian tanks so they were fast.

in other words the T34 was half american. Did you know that? i doubt...

Russian tanks didn't even have radios or a simple cupola on the turret LOL. Russian tank crews had to use signal flags so they could not even make real tactics LOL LOL LOL ROFL LOL how poor is that? Dozen of T34s drove into german lines without a f*cking tactic and were killed in high numbers!  what a waste of men.-.-

Ok first the panther was influenced from the T34 (historical fact)

BlackDahliaMurder wrote:

Iglooman wrote:
Understood? You have to flank in order to win.

complot! that's historically false! Soviet tanks didn't have to be flanked by Tigers or Panthers! That's just wrong!

after the Panthers and Tigers were deployed on the battlefield, all Russian tanks could be eleminated at distances, where enemy tanks couldn't even aim at...the 75mm KwK 40 (one of the most powerful anti tank guns employed during WW2) could kill any soviet tank at two miles away! it just can't be right that a Tiger/Panther has to flank a soviet tank... that is ridiculous!

I've read quite alot of literature on World War II and all of the literature I have read, depict the Tiger as SUPERIOR! or are you telling me WW2 history is fake? There are no such thing as nazi party and hitler did not exist. We are brain washed to believe in this lie. LOL

T34s had to flank the Tiger... Shermans had to flank tigers.... but the Tiger itself... was not forced to flank any enemy tank at all! WHAT A BULLSHIT!

I have not tried playing with the new patch yet... but i hope after the patch the IS-2 will be limited! It's power is comparable to a Tiger and you can have ..how many?...5 IS-2s on the battlefield WTF.

I meant as Cpt Malenshko said , to make more dommage.

But you are speaking about "realistic facts", CoH is not that, or this game would not be possible, tanks would shot each other from the 2 extremities of the map.

And if you say "realist", why would not we see 10 IS2/T34-85 for 1 Tiger as it was in reality. And the Il 2 Sturmkoviks should always be here owning german tanks. Actually early game should be german's as end game should be allies' .

CoH is based on realist facts but dont forget that is a game and it should be balanced. The war was not balanced.

Just played a game of 4v4 (4 soviets vs 2 wher and 2 PE).
The Marder NEVER penetrated the IS-2 frontal armor. I had it fire at least 6 times in a row and it never penetrated, which is just silly considering that the paks, which don't cost any fuel, seemed to work just fine.

BlackDahliaMurder wrote:
...T34s had to flank the Tiger...

Heheh, funny story: some T34 crews actually rammed Tigers and it worked rather well. But that won't be portrayed ingame.

Iglooman wrote:
CoH is based on realist facts but dont forget that is a game and it should be balanced. The war was not balanced.

Exactly what I wanted to write (but you beat me to it ;) ), CoH is a game, BUT based on real events, real equipment and REAL fighting capabilities, Panters should`nt get a "whole map" range (as much as some panzer commanders would like it :) ) but it should at least have a range of Marder or Firefly, if we`r talking about balance then Hotchkiss should fire like Ostwind, cause it is definitely not a substitute for Pz4 Stubby and in every way cost`s more that it can deliver.

BlackDahliaMurder wrote:
ok LOL what are you trying to tell us by this, Malashenko?
IT IS A HISTORICAL FACT, GERMAN TANKS WERE SUPERIOR OF COURSE. FACE IT.

If your so superior, why do you loose every battle with the Soviets and whine about OP? :P
And HISTORICALLY, GERMANS LOST and T-34 had the last lough.

Zerstörer wrote:
COH ain't about historical accuracy...it doesn't really come into play that much...more like...loose guide lines. It's all about game/faction balance

!??, CoH is based on WW2, but historical accuracy went in second plan to make a better game (witch I welcome) but some thing`s aren't balanced or logical, we have several 75mm and 88mm guns in game, ALL with different damage and range, but more importantly EVERY single one of them has smaller range then crappy 50 or 57mm AT gun? In the end it more pay`s of to build AT`s and inf. then spend time and resources on tanks, and that`s just sad.
@BlackDahliaMurder: Have to disappoint you, Soviets DID invent sloped armor, we DO have the best tanks, then and now, in the end, the last tank running - wins the battle, and that were ALWAYS Russian tanks.
And please, stop LOL`ing, it is very annoying.

Shadowmetroid wrote:

BlackDahliaMurder wrote:
...T34s had to flank the Tiger...

Heheh, funny story: some T34 crews actually rammed Tigers and it worked rather well. But that won't be portrayed ingame.

I actually suggested ramming as an ability for T-34 long ago, and I still imagine the faces of commanders watching their Panthers and Tigers disappear under kamikaze attacks of T-34 :)))) would be a great show ...

Last edited January 24, 2010 at 11:54 PM by Capt. Malashenko

Capt. wrote:

Shadowmetroid wrote:

BlackDahliaMurder wrote:
...T34s had to flank the Tiger...

Heheh, funny story: some T34 crews actually rammed Tigers and it worked rather well. But that won't be portrayed ingame.

I actually suggested ramming as an ability for T-34 long ago, and I still imagine the faces of commanders watching their Panthers and Tigers disappear under kamikaze attacks of T-34 :)))) would be a great show ...

T-34 Ram: Targeted ability, Heavy tanks only.
Effects:  Engine Destroyed
            Tank Buttoned

...And the Axis Commanders cried OP once more...

Iglooman wrote:
Ok first the panther was influenced from the T34 (historical fact)

fine! and the T34 was influenced by all other tanks that had angled armor before. oh and by Walter Christie thanks to his suspension system.

Iglooman wrote:
But you are speaking about "realistic facts", CoH is not that, or this game would not be possible, tanks would shot each other from the 2 extremities of the map.

no you misunderstood. I never said realistic in any of my posts and i never talked about realism at all. you didn't get my point. I said it's just ridiculous that a Tiger has to flank enemy tanks, because the 88mm could deal with any frontal armor during WW2... just saying.

Iglooman wrote:
And if you say "realist",

again, i didn't say the word "realistic" in my previous posts. do you need glasses?...

Iglooman wrote:
And the Il 2 Sturmkoviks should always be here owning german tanks.

ever heard of Erich Hartmann? he is the highest scoring fyling ace in the world with 352 conifrmed kills (planes). And he was not the only german ace in WW2, in total there were over 100 aces who shot down more than 100 enemy planes only on the Eastern Front.  you know math, just 100 * 100 and you have the sum. even the second best flying ace (Gerhard Barkhorn) is credited with 301 confirmed kills! and the list goes on.... so don't tell me anything about russian air force they were cannon fodder.

Last edited January 25, 2010 at 12:18 AM by BlackDahliaMurder

Can we get back to gameplay please? This is not a historical discussion forum, and even if it were this is devolving into rambling vitriol.

"...And the Axis Commanders cried OP once more..."
yeahh, if Tigers had a decent range, it would come together nicely, but now? OP OP OP - back to Battlefield episodes for us :)
But, T-34 came as a nice surprise indeed, in my opinion it is very well balanced, perhaps the best balanced tank in terms of "history" and game...

Capt. wrote:If your so superior, why do you loose every battle with the Soviets and whine about OP? :P
And HISTORICALLY, GERMANS LOST and T-34 had the last lough.

a) nope, i'm not the one here whining about anything and i did not open this thread. I can play very well against the Soviets though  ;)

b) Everyone around here knows, that Germany lost. but the Soviets didnt fight against 3 superpowers supported by 52 other nations.

c) do you know how many T34s had to be sacrificed for a handful Tigers?...

whatsoever let's keep history away from here. after i've plyaed with the new patch i think the game is somewhat good balanced.

Thanks EF Team!

Last edited January 25, 2010 at 12:35 AM by BlackDahliaMurder