First Patch

Alright party people, first of all thanks for the great participation. Our release was a full success, thanks to you.

Saying that, we are never satisfied. Our crew has played games all day, and there are some concerns about the soviets being a bit overpowered. We will bring out a new small balance patch tomorrow right away, making a few careful changes to the soviets early game resource setup and the heavy support weapon prices.

This way, you can fetch all your friends and play good competetive games all weekend long.

Last edited January 22, 2010 at 12:05 AM by Apex

Also, there have been some issues with steam installs - check out the bug forum, there are some helpful threads there.

wow thats fast <3

Hehe nice, this will make the mod perfect like a addon no bettter then that its for free!!!

I love you guys keep it up ;)

Sweet Apex. You guys are awesome and outstanding work so far. The mod is freakin' great!

On the patch front, I had a question/suggestion. Currently I don't get a squad number for my Ingenery or Conscript Squads (Ingenery always shows 1/1 and Conscripts is 0/0). This makes it a little difficult to tell how many men I have left and when is best to pull them back, especially when they're hunkered down in cover or something.

All the other squads show accurate numbers, just seems to be for these two squad types. Is this an easy fix and if so, anything on the horizon?

Great News though!

It is Pretty though play Soviets in early phases on small or medium maps especially against AI. Cause the Weapons Upgrades are so expensive i get totally hammered all the time by the Axis with StuGs and upgraded Volks before i even had enough ammo to upgrade my conscripts.
Good to hear that this will be rebalanced.

impgoon wrote:
Great News though!

It is Pretty though play Soviets in early phases on small or medium maps especially against AI. Cause the Weapons Upgrades are so expensive i get totally hammered all the time by the Axis with StuGs and upgraded Volks before i even had enough ammo to upgrade my conscripts.
Good to hear that this will be rebalanced.

This does not need to be fixed/patched/changed. Upgrade prices are fine as is.

I beg you to reconsider and not go for knee-jerk balancing, otherwise you will end up rendering the USSR useless. Give it time for strategies to develop.

Taking away the high starting resources will seriously hurt the USSR, who has no starting squad and already struggles everywhere that's not the beginning of the game. If you're going to kneejerk nerf this, then think of the consequences.

Right now the Soviets can't play lategame, which is fine if you give them earlygame strength. But as it is, if you nerf them now they cannot possibly hold the fuel and thus will lose the moment an Axis tank comes on the field. They have no mobile anti-tank... just a 57mm gun that cannot be recrewed, a 100 fuel tank that is worse than a StuG at killing other tanks, and a 150 fuel tank that has less range than comparable tanks (that are 40 fuel cheaper).

The only counter to all of this is their strong early game presence, which played properly can get a grip on most of the fuel. Take this away, and they are fucked beyond belief.

And.... you're going to make the one-time wonder heavy weapons that can't be recrewed even worse?

I will never look at Relic's balance changes in a negative way again. You never know how good something is until it's not there anymore.

I have to agree on the lack of mobile AT. Maybe you could add a tank hunter unit that could cloak in cover and throw stickies and krak grenades?

Tank Hunters can cloak in cover.

Totally agree to german steel. right now there simply cant be any serious balance issue. Its completely impossible.

If you ( and the community ) have played 50+ games,
then you are really used to a new faction and can finally
make a serious statement about balancing.

Its always the same " I loose, so its not balanced" crap, sorry. Its absolutely useless and even contraproductive
to bow down to whiners who have lost their first few games.

Dont care about early posts. maybe keep some stuff
in mind, let the official testers redo the situation, check for
mods data...  but ...

DONT PANIC. ;)

Hi,

I am a nood as i see it , And i only play with AI at normal difficulty , I see no reson to think that the soviets are overpowered .

It is soo good that you are on your wheels all the time , Think we attribute our faliure to adpatation of gameplay style to Balance .

I like it the way it is .

Regards
funnyme

I totally agree!

Don't change anything in the balance for now. I've only play 2 games and it's to early to change anything.

Thou I must say again, that I'm impressed by the work of the development team :-) Once again - Love ya :-D

please - do NOT make balance adjustments YET - or u will chase your tail forever - IMHO

btw - lots of fun so far

funnyme wrote:
Hi,

I am a nood as i see it , And i only play with AI at normal difficulty , I see no reson to think that the soviets are overpowered .

It is soo good that you are on your wheels all the time , Think we attribute our faliure to adpatation of gameplay style to Balance .

I like it the way it is .

Regards
funnyme

This pretty much sums me up aswell.

Dont do anything too hasty, internet people love to piss and moan, and are never happier than when they've got something new to piss and moan about  ;D

Just give it a while and let people find new tactics, I'm not a good player and I'm already finding it easier to beat them by using different units etc.

If anythings done right now it should only be a few small adjustments, nothing major.

Anyway, I'm sure you guys know what your doing  :)

Cheers

Apex, thank you for great work. The mod is a killer !!!


However, i encourage you to reconsider with the early patch. Please give it some more time before patching anything.

Here are my thoughts love the mod and I mean love it, not just the new faction but the 20+ maps. 

I agree mortar needs to fire a little slower with alittle less damage.

Heres my wish list and improvement suggestions.
1) infantry and tank units need to look little more diversified, i.e -paint,models etc. easier to identify.
2)Is need to be a little less gas and a little more manpower.
3) obvisouly the mortar fix- think thats been said enough
4)The steamroller tank literally takes out werchmacht base buildings in one hit. Thats got to be fixed.
5)booby trap and partisans need to be flip flopped, and partisans should cost abit more...
6)katusyha needs a manpower increase, and cooldown increase,or pop cap.
7)OP units would be nice because its hard to get those 200 munitions upgrades on certain maps.
8)integration into automatch on relics server would be nice.


Thats all folks, but this mod rocks, and Im selling it to everyone on every forum I can find. Great expansion, so thankful for the new maps, and now with some fixes and the ostheer, this is the best RTS period.

Finally a faction that can kick some Arse on the Germans.

The other Allies are Under Powered and we all know that.

Halftrack wrote:
Totally agree to german steel. right now there simply cant be any serious balance issue. Its completely impossible.

If you ( and the community ) have played 50+ games,
then you are really used to a new faction and can finally
make a serious statement about balancing.

Its always the same " I loose, so its not balanced" crap, sorry. Its absolutely useless and even contraproductive
to bow down to whiners who have lost their first few games.

Dont care about early posts. maybe keep some stuff
in mind, let the official testers redo the situation, check for
mods data...  but ...

DONT PANIC. ;)

This makes me sad to know the own developer of this mod doesn't even spend 10 minutes looking through their own forums. If you would take those 10 minutes out of your day to look at the balance forum you would see that the Ingenery are extremely overpowered and one person using nothing but ingenery can take out 2 axis players. Both of those axis players were lvl 14.

After playing with IS 2 tank more, I dont think they should nerf it to much, just tone down the damage it can take or givie out alittle, maybe just a boost in manpower cost, it can be ciricle strafed fairly easy with a triple vet panther.

Quoteone person using nothing but ingenery can take out 2 axis players. Both of those axis players were lvl 14.

Seriously, thats like someone making nothing but volksgrenadiers and winning. You must be really bad at the game if you can't counter a basic infantry spam.

QuoteYou must be really bad at the game if you can't counter a basic infantry spam.

Thats not the point. The point is that you can stall with engees so much time that you can bring out t-90 or something else to win every VP map. Perhaps Wehr is able to beat russians in a long game, but VP games are short.

Fair point. The new patch released soon should address most of these problems.

WartyX wrote:

Quoteone person using nothing but ingenery can take out 2 axis players. Both of those axis players were lvl 14.

Seriously, thats like someone making nothing but volksgrenadiers and winning. You must be really bad at the game if you can't counter a basic infantry spam.

http://easternfront.org/forums/index.php?topic=1878.0

yea, umm, no they weren't bad, they got ingenery spammed, then the ingenery got flamethrowers, then partisan spammed, then t-90 spammed, easy control of 3 VP's lead to the victory for the single soviet.

watch the replay of the two lvl 14 axis players.

Oh, these are professional players, and to make matters worst, this is being broadcast over the gamereplays forums to under a review for the mod. I understand its going to be fixed, but for one of the devs to say there is no way nothing can be imbalanced since the mod just came out, and that there was anything imbalanced is just sad.

http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index.php?showtopic=574169

Last edited January 23, 2010 at 11:10 PM by ElitistJerk

This is halarious, I can not beleive some people actually that some people are actually defending the russians, and trying to say they are not over powered. THis is really sad too, because the Soviet faction is AWESOME, its very cool and very fresh gameplay wise. BUT, THERE ARE SERIOUS ISSUES!!


1. The economy is screwed up, especially when it comes to the cost of TANKS. THe tanks are way too cheap for the Soviets.

2. Tank hunters need to cost a lil more

3. much more things but i am too lazy to write about them right now

Play it moe the balance is pretty close, the Soviets are weak as hell in the beginning and costly to upgrade to where they are equal to other nations base infantry  ;)
I LOVE this mod!

Think upgraded Tank Hunters does too much damage to buildings. I did a 1v1 comparison with a tank and the TH took out the building faster than the tank did. I felt it was funny.

Also do you all think the Soviets capping rate is too fast? What is their capping rate by the way? Same as Riflemen? Or even faster?

Good to wait some time on the patch, yes, but there are some pretty serious imbalance issues all the same. Don't get me wrong though, I would rather wait awhile with the imbalance and then get a good patch as opposed to getting a slapdash patch with unintended balance issues.

Right now, it's Ingy spam that's a real balance killer, that and the Soviet heavy mortar (what seems like half of the posts in the balance forum is whining about those two). Also, it seems that the PE now has a crippling disadvantage against the Sovs: Panzergrenadiers get ripped apart by hordes of Ingenery while most if not all of their T1/T2/T3 vehicles get raped by early PTRDs.

On the other hand, Sovs need a early-game MG equivalent. The US has the 30-cal, the Wehr gets the MG-42, the Brits have the Bren MMG carrier and Vickers nests, and the PE gets Infantry HTs. The Sovs are left out in the cold.

Last edited January 24, 2010 at 5:01 AM by sandycaesar

The soviets do not need an mg, and if your are really in the need of getting mgs, just use the doctrine which makes you able to build them.

WartyX wrote:

Quoteone person using nothing but ingenery can take out 2 axis players. Both of those axis players were lvl 14.

Seriously, thats like someone making nothing but volksgrenadiers and winning. You must be really bad at the game if you can't counter a basic infantry spam.

No it's not like someone making Volks and winning, because Volks are balanced just fine and can't be abused.  I know everyone wants to think that all the Axis players are just slow on the uptake, but lets face it, Soviets are ridiculous and everyone who knows how to play this game well knows it.  The mod itself is absolutely phenomenal, from the quality of the new unit models and sounds, to most of the new maps (except Moscow, that map is retarded) and I have to give it up for the Dev team and their quality work.

My real problem is with the Beta Testers and anyone in charge of balancing who didn't instantly notice the problem with the Ingenery and their epic flamethrower upgrades.  This is the kind of inherent defect that should never see the light of day and it would have been better to delay the mod x days to fix it.  I'm not trying to be rude here but if it was actually your job in real life to insure quality control and balance in your game and you let something like this slide, you would be fired.  It might sound harsh, but if you want to be taken seriously and laud that this game merits "never even launcing vanilla CoH again," you shouldn't have jumped the gun.  If you want to be technical about it, the game will never be truly balanced until the Ostheer is added, since it gives Allies too many options over Axis, but I understand modding this game is truly difficult and you wanted to get something out there.

Other than that, the mod is easily the best I've ever seen in an RTS and I look forward to playing it when Soviets aren't the instant win button.

I watched the replays. Yes, Ingenery spam is a huge problem. Please do something about it, it's like pio-spam and rifle-spam combined on SPEED.

sandycaesar wrote:

Right now, it's Ingy spam that's a real balance killer, that and the Soviet heavy mortar (what seems like half of the posts in the balance forum is whining about those two). Also, it seems that the PE now has a crippling disadvantage against the Sovs: Panzergrenadiers get ripped apart by hordes of Ingenery while most if not all of their T1/T2/T3 vehicles get raped by early PTRDs.

If these two could get fixed I feel it would only be a slight exaggeration to say the game would be exponentially better. Ingy spam is the big one here, since this totally throws the "soviets have a weak early game" thing out the window. I really have to question giving a t0 150 mp 4 man unit bolt action rifles. Sure sappers are 4 men and get bolt actions, but they're a t2 320 mp squad that's slow as hell and doesn't cap uber fast... Currently they're far too cheap and build too fast for their power even without upgrades or the flamethrower since 1 ingy squad has repeatedly and handily defeated 2 pio squads, and 2 of them can beat a volks squad, and most gallingly I've had mg42 teams in green cover beaten by 2 ingy squads in yellow cover on multiple occasions. Builder units should be cheap, but something has to be done about those rifles.