Ostheer Special Unit: Sturer Emil

luz777 wrote:
@Saavedra: Have you ever played a WWII game where the special unit wasn't some sort of big bad ass tank? Besides, fitting with the "expansion" theme, dont you think having big tanks towards the end of a doctrine tree fits with the feel of the game?

I think RIPPING OFF other games (including Company of Heroes itself, which already has the Marder, the M10 and the Stug as badly-armored tank destroyers) is not fitting.

QuoteBesides, most people seem to think its quite an original take on the idea of a heavy tank destroyer, what with the paper thin armour and suchlike.

It´s not original when you already have THREE such units in the game (and one in EF so far, the SU-85), and all they are voting for now is a more powerful but more weakly-armored version of them, based on a model of which there only were two vehicles, no less.



I have three better ideas than that:

- The equivalent of the Russian Sniper Ace. If we have Vassily, we can have Konig too. Instead of giving him stickies, give him stun grenades to face off against Recon Tommies and Soviet infantry blobs that will try to hunt him down.

- Armored mine-clearing vehicle with large detection and line of sight. Something like an unarmed Churchill meant to spearhead armored thrusts. Think the mine-clearing tank from the Sebastopol mission of Men of War. No weapons, but great detection and LOS so it can detonate mines and detect hidden units like the cloaked snipers.

- Tank Hunters. Infantry squads that can ambush, button an enemy vehicle, and throw AT nades at them. Bren squads and Pgrens with AT nades all in one (note that AT nades do not cripple enemy vehicles like stickies do).



These ideas are all more original than getting YET ANOTHER damn super-heavy tank.

Not orginal and not useful.

What is not useful ?

You can explain us in detail ?

Bauer wrote:
Not orginal and not useful.

Well, i think the idea expect the one of the tankhunters is original, but somehow not kick-ass. this is what ppl wanna see, some vehicles with a big dick to have fun with. ;)

nahhaa kidding.
The only tank which is yet compareable to the sturer emil is the marder imo. And what we need on the eastern front is something cool, i mean really cool. and what is cooler than a 12,8cm flak on a tank?
Whats cooler than being cool? icecold.

Saav, for the sniper ace, I'd like a Finnish one, since the fight against Soviets will be more personal to him.

- The equivalent of the Russian Sniper Ace. If we have Vassily, we can have Konig too. Instead of giving him stickies, give him stun grenades to face off against Recon Tommies and Soviet infantry blobs that will try to hunt him down.

(nothing new) We no need another super sniper.

- Armored mine-clearing vehicle with large detection and line of sight. Something like an unarmed Churchill meant to spearhead armored thrusts. Think the mine-clearing tank from the Sebastopol mission of Men of War. No weapons, but great detection and LOS so it can detonate mines and detect hidden units like the cloaked snipers.

(not usable) how many russian mines you see on battlefield? You want detect one sniper?

- Tank Hunters. Infantry squads that can ambush, button an enemy vehicle, and throw AT nades at them. Bren squads and Pgrens with AT nades all in one (note that AT nades do not cripple enemy vehicles like stickies do).

(to weak and we have a lot of AT infrantry) Volksgrenediers-panzerfaust grenediers-panzershreks sturtruppen-panzershreks PE grenediers-panzershreks falshirmjaggers-panzerfaust

At now everyone want to see OH to bee not useful and not strong. Give em Italian, japanese or other countres with week infrantry and armor. NO PZIV NO TIGERS NO PANTHERS NO HEAVY ARTYLERY NO PLANES RUNS, Why OH cant produce tigers like a russians can IS-2?

Another thing, just keep the Stuer, nothing funner and cooler at the end of the day to see a lone Soviet tank raping German infantry when a few run begind a corner and a Suer rolls. The Soviets would be crappy their pants until that bug gun fires and hits then, which then procedes to explode. The Soviet player is then screaming his head off while you procede to clean up the Soviet's mess.

Saavedra wrote:
I think RIPPING OFF other games (including Company of Heroes itself, which already has the Marder, the M10 and the Stug as badly-armored tank destroyers) is not fitting.

You can hardly accuse an idea for a CoH mod of "ripping off" CoH itself, theres only so many different types of units available in WWII. Is the Panzer IV a rip off of the Sherman becuase they're both medium tanks?

Saavedra wrote:
It´s not original when you already have THREE such units in the game (and one in EF so far, the SU-85), and all they are voting for now is a more powerful but more weakly-armored version of them, based on a model of which there only were two vehicles, no less.

The SU-85 isn't that badly armoured, and besides isn't the point of doctrine units to be rare and exciting rather than something mass produced?

Saavedra wrote:
I have three better ideas than that:

- The equivalent of the Russian Sniper Ace. If we have Vassily, we can have Konig too. Instead of giving him stickies, give him stun grenades to face off against Recon Tommies and Soviet infantry blobs that will try to hunt him down.

Is this not just "ripping off" the Sniper Ace, albeit with a slight difference in abilities?

Saavedra wrote:
- Armored mine-clearing vehicle with large detection and line of sight. Something like an unarmed Churchill meant to spearhead armored thrusts. Think the mine-clearing tank from the Sebastopol mission of Men of War. No weapons, but great detection and LOS so it can detonate mines and detect hidden units like the cloaked snipers.

Mines are nowhere near used enough in CoH to warrant a good deal of pop cap and comand points to a unit with no weapons or means of fighting back, maybe if it had an MG with good suppression, but I can't imagine anyone really taking to it. Why would you when you can have mine detectors?

Saavedra wrote:
- Tank Hunters. Infantry squads that can ambush, button an enemy vehicle, and throw AT nades at them. Bren squads and Pgrens with AT nades all in one (note that AT nades do not cripple enemy vehicles like stickies do).

Again, is this not just ripping off the EF Soviet Tank Hunters, albiet with marginally different abilities again. Many mods give Axis factions a Shreck Squad.

Saavedra wrote:
These ideas are all more original than getting YET ANOTHER damn super-heavy tank.

Are they really that original? There isn't an emormous scope for complete originality in this game, what with it being set within historical boundaries, all the special units you propose are just as derivative of something else as the original idea.

And, after all, people do like something with a "big dick" (as Venoxxis puts it  ;D ) in their doctrine choices.

Cheers

Last edited February 5, 2010 at 2:41 AM by luz777

Bauer wrote:
- The equivalent of the Russian Sniper Ace. If we have Vassily, we can have Konig too. Instead of giving him stickies, give him stun grenades to face off against Recon Tommies and Soviet infantry blobs that will try to hunt him down.

(nothing new) We no need another super sniper.

It could work as a recreation of Enemy at the Gates. Konig VS Vassily.

Quote- Armored mine-clearing vehicle with large detection and line of sight. Something like an unarmed Churchill meant to spearhead armored thrusts. Think the mine-clearing tank from the Sebastopol mission of Men of War. No weapons, but great detection and LOS so it can detonate mines and detect hidden units like the cloaked snipers.

(not usable) how many russian mines you see on battlefield? You want detect one sniper?

I thought Tank Hunters were given the ability to lay mines? Also, I´ll be honest and say that I mostly play the OMG mod, where you play with finite resources and repairing vehicles downgrades their armor over time, so mines are used often and effectively.

Quote- Tank Hunters. Infantry squads that can ambush, button an enemy vehicle, and throw AT nades at them. Bren squads and Pgrens with AT nades all in one (note that AT nades do not cripple enemy vehicles like stickies do).

(to weak and we have a lot of AT infrantry) Volksgrenediers-panzerfaust grenediers-panzershreks sturtruppen-panzershreks PE grenediers-panzershreks falshirmjaggers-panzerfaust

Can any of them button a Soviet vehicle so a Marder/Stug/Panther/Tiger can hit them from safety or flank them?

QuoteAt now everyone want to see OH to bee not useful and not strong. Give em Italian, japanese or other countres with week infrantry and armor. NO PZIV NO TIGERS NO PANTHERS NO HEAVY ARTYLERY NO PLANES RUNS, Why OH cant produce tigers like a russians can IS-2?

Because factional differences are what make the game interesting?




Also, my ideas might be "derivative", but I do try to make them original or give the Axis something they don´t have. I´ve put more brainpower into coming up with these units than most of you have on just accepting immediately a unit that is EXACTLY the same as the Marder, only different in stats.

Fair enough the Sturer Emil would function like a beefed up Marder, but its one of the only units specific to the Eastern Front that I've never seen in a game before. Plus the kind of "ambush" gameplay it advocates would be pretty fun with an end of tier unit.

Not that I'm knocking your "brainpower" but the three idea's you've put forward aren't particularly original, and are taken from various other WWII games/mods. More than a little patronising to say everyone else is blindly accepting the idea, maybe they just like it  :P

The Ostheer could include some things totally unique, somethings that you call a "Ripoff", we could have Koening and the Sturer Emil, and maybe some even more original ideas...

Cheers

Last edited February 5, 2010 at 2:44 PM by luz777

Developers can use this special ideas in OH kampaing (if at the futurethey want do it)