Ostheer Special Unit: Sturer Emil

Heres an idea for a special unit for the Ostheer.

There 12.8 cm Selbstfahrlafette auf VK3001(H) or Sturer Emil for short.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturer_Emil

Whilst only two of the things were made I think it would make a nice call-in unit for army group south (seeing as the surviving tank was captured at Stalingrad).

Ingame it would function as a sort of beefed up Marder III. Very high damage but slow and with weak armour due to the open top, mainly used for ambush and knocking armour out at long range. It would come near the end of a doctrine tree and only be available once. As far as German experimental weapons went this one was actually pretty good at what it was meant for.

Theres plenty of good pictures here:
http://worldwartwozone.com/forums/land-warfare/16779-12-8-cm-selbstfahrlafette-auf.html

What do you guys think, viable?

Cheers

Last edited January 12, 2010 at 4:35 PM by luz777

Mmm...Like I said once before, we are giving too much heavy armor to the Ostheer and I think we cannot allow to replace tanks that were widely used in the Eastern Front for prototypes and tanks that were so rare that only saw action in only a few battles or were prouduced in tiny numbers

Aye but if you make it very slow and vulnerable to attack it won't really act like a heavy tank. Open topped should mean it very vulnerable to artillery and other types of damage that dont affact heavy armour that much. I too dont believe the Ostheer should have loads of heavy armour, Elefant and Kingtiger and leave it at that I would say.

Whilst we do need realism, I'd like the Ostheer to have different units than the current Wehr factions, not just more Stug IV's, Panzer IV's, Panthers and Half Tracks.

Theres plenty of other stuff to choose from  :)

Last edited January 12, 2010 at 5:47 PM by luz777

Intesresting. Emil could be a Elefant replacement... but since there was only ever 2 built, once its Destroyed... no more call ins, like a KT :P

50mm armour? That's nothing tbh... less than a T-34. Good balance though, massive gun, weak armour...

Last edited January 12, 2010 at 5:31 PM by BurroDiablo

Aye that was pretty much the idea, called in only once and then gone for good if it dies, plus big gun counterbalanced by shitty armour.

I didn't have it in mind as a Kingtiger style unit, more a powerful mid to late game unit thats too weak to really swing the game in your favour, but still packs a big punch if you manage to get it positioned well.


Could well be an Elefant replacement.
Or part of another doctrine to give them abit of Anti-armour help, so long as it wasn't the same doctrine that gets the Elefant.

Cheers

Last edited January 12, 2010 at 5:48 PM by luz777

Perhaps when the player had lost 2 sture Emils he could call in the dicken Max xD 10,5cm KwK Tankhunter on the chassis of the Panzer IV. 2 Tanks were produced, both fight at the eastern front  ;)

Haha aye its pretty much the same thing but smaller. I'd never heard of it until I randomly bought one in the DCG mod for Men of War, they're pretty cool aswell  :P

- LOL - Well, normally I'd automatically say no. 128 cm? woah.
But, yea nashorns and Marder type guns were common on EF.
And if it's historical 1942-1943... hey... 2 units? Bad armor?
Make it work like a mobile AT88, sorta. Same range? Make it
only be possible to call it in once or twice. Move like a Hummel
(the god of shitty movers). Lol.

- I think I'd prefer for them to be callable once only -

: Oh, hey, yea. I've been wanting to ask. Is it possible to
make a unit unique call-in and then call in something weaker?

(PS: Churchill call-ins should be limited but that's just me)
Like 4 on the map at once max per player. But can call new
ones in as they are lost :) (Or 2-1-1) Meh :)

loup churchil use is limited realy 14 pop for 1 of the shittiest tanks in the game 56 pop is needed for 4 tanks !!

bastex wrote:
loup churchil use is limited realy 14 pop for 1 of the shittiest tanks in the game 56 pop is needed for 4 tanks !!

Churchill is anything but the shittiest. Combine its thick armor with hull down and nothing can kill it. Srsly, ive seen one at half health hulled down take a V1 to the face and keep firing.

The Sturer Emil actually has quite thick armour. i saw the only surviving model in Kubinka a few years back (Parked close to the Maus). as for it's gun, fired a 58lb/26.4kg shot at 2887fps/880m/s, which could penetrate 120mm of armour sloped at 30 degrees at 2000m and over 200mm at point-blank range. in CoH Terms, one shot, one kill. I'd personally restrict it to either a 'Reward Vehicle', or have it in the Stalingrad campaign, as a bonus Objective (Destroy the Sturer Emil)

50mm isn't much, its not even sloped like a T-34 so with the 50mm on the Emil, what you see is what you get. Still, it should have quite impressive firepower, be able to penetrate a T-34 at any range, destroy it in 2 shots possibly.

Yup yup something along those lines, but very succeptible to just about anything, slow like a Hummel too. Can you make units in coh extra vulnerable against grenades and molotovs? To take account for the open turret.

I like that idea for a mission in the Stalingrad campaign too, would be pretty cool. Good thinking  :)

I know the PE infantry half track is really vulnerable to flamethrowers if there is infantry inside there. Something like that?

usually im not a fan of experimental vehicles, but I have to say this is a darn good idea ;D it would be difficult to use correctly, but if microed properly there would be no end to the damage it could do.

Super Unit : Automatic no.
But Luz's proposal is so flawed and filled with limitations
and requires thought to use, I'd say sure!

Not like 99% of other offers out there : My super unit that
requires no thought and is automatic win! :D

normaly i would say also no to a tank which got build only 2 times.
but the combination of weak armour and superior firepower
is just amazing and would fit kinda great  :o

Plus it's 1942 era and historical.
I mean, goliath were nowhere as common as Vanilla would
have us believe ;)

It's not a late 1945-1946 unit like IS4-IS6 :)

yarp it would fit perfect.
a tank with a never seen armor piercing ability, and
a huge rage, but a bad armor would be really something
special and it was never seen in any other coh mod else.

go EF!
make it a nice one :D

Got to be Doctrine, though.
And I think 1 max would be best. As 2x Ostheer players
might spawn 2 each (4 total)... bleep :)

And it's got to be doctrine :)

Mmm hmm definately doctrine and only 1 and then its gone.

It would best fit as part of the doctrine with the least Anti-Tank speciality, perhaps army group south (assuming thats how were going with Ost) as it would mainly be an urban doctrine focused around Stalingrad...possibly  :)

Mmm if It ahs to work like that I imagine it with "Site Main Gun" or something similar, like a very much powerful version of the PE Marder

Yup. Site main gun. Super AT88 type Marder (super long
range). Without the Flak capability, of course.

Yeah that would be awesome...except for the fact it would slightly more vulnerable that an actual 88

Well, yea. Xcept AT88 doesn't move. And ought to be
DELETABLE (PE Flak20 too). GRR

And can be rebuilt multiple times and numerously and... ;)

... Can hit planes!
And probably reloads faster! And... ;)

Ok...nobody is perfect... :P

... dude... I'm perfect!!!  8)

Just kidding Ryousan. Actually, I really like your idea.
I love the idea of a FLAWED super unit. Different from
what a lot of others proposed :p

Last edited January 17, 2010 at 2:10 AM by Loupblanc

actully, it should have even more power than the 88.
its weapon isnt a pak43,
its a modified flak 40. this beast could penetrate 150mm of steel at 2000 meters rage. the pak43/88 had worse data.

something like a jeep should be gone with one shot already.

But still we should think about balancing,
so bad reload time,
and bad armor - of course.

the tank sounds really like something unique.

Last edited January 16, 2010 at 12:02 PM by Venoxxis

Yea. With it's accumulated maluses, it OUGHT to get
a pretty nice 'BONUS' to compensate, somewhere, yes?

The idea is sound with the possibility of it being a reward vehicle. Otherwise, it seems like a waste of time. Here's another idea i'd like to throw out there: on the EF the Germans had some of those Flak-40/88mm on a wheeled chassis towed behind a a fully stocked halftrack acting as an AT weapon. Is that in the game, or a even a remote possibility?

Many people have already proposed that...the problem is that new aniamtions and codding would be needed in order to put that idea to work because I belive there is nothing that works like in CoH

Ryousan wrote:
Many people have already proposed that...the problem is that new aniamtions and codding would be needed in order to put that idea to work because I belive there is nothing that works like in CoH

That's why I replaced it (in my concept) with a Pantherturm.
Wasn't that even you who first came up with this idea?

QuoteThat's why I replaced it (in my concept) with a Pantherturm.
Wasn't that even you who first came up with this idea?

Nope, I never proposed a movile 88. Never since my first Ostheer concept til the latest update of it. I think it was Lord Rommel who first came up with that...

Not a 88.  ;D
A PANTHERTURM. Known also as OSTTURM.

Yes I know what it is. What im saying is that I wasnt the one who started with all the "mobile 88" stuff...

Yah, mobile 88 was a discussion a while back. I still support the idea, in some form, as long as the movement speed and pack up time is slow as hell

back to topic guys :P

did you know that the sturer emil had the best kill/loss radio of every tank?

Also they were in service over a very long time on the eastern front. the first vehicles was 2 years in action until it got caputred and the 2nd one for 3 years until it got destroyed by bombers!

I though the Elephant had the Best kill/lost ratio of all tank destroyers. It was 10/1.

Even if the other Emil had no kills, the other still had an apparent 22 kill count, making it an 11:1 ratio.

What an epic-looking vehicle.

WartyX wrote:
What an epic-looking vehicle.

Which is exactly why it should be given to the Ostheer as a one time call in tank destroyer

Glad people seem to be liking the idea  :)

The two vehicles were dubbed "Max and Moritz" by the way, named after the characters from an old German childrens story. Which is kinda cool.

I'm not sure which one survived though.

I think it was the Max one, the one who had the 22 kills mark.

This is a nice idea. Since it was basically a poorly-armored tank with a big gun it would be nice to incorporate the Lock-Down ability of the Panzer Elite. It would be like a Marder III bigger brother.

really looks good
btw

"On July 7th of 1943, single Tiger tank commanded by SS-Oberscharfuehrer Franz Staudegger from 2nd Platoon of 13th Panzer Company of 1st SS Panzer Grenadier Division "LSSAH" engaged Soviet group of some 50 T-34 tanks around Psyolknee (southern sector of the Kursk salient). Staudegger used up his entire ammunition after destroying some 22 Soviet tanks, while the rest retreated. For his achievement, Franz Staudegger was awarded the Knight’s Cross."

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/panzerkampfwagen-vi-tiger-ausf-e-sd-kfz-181.htm

so maybe he had better kill ratio :D

I hope by "Replace" you mean an Award vehicle - I love the Elefant.

Thats is better than sturmel. Why best german units can be called on time at battle? This can be clled all battle (one on field).




made 494 no only 2

Last edited February 4, 2010 at 8:00 AM by Bauer

Why do ALL special German units have to be heavy tanks? And why do ALL special units have to be tank destroyers?

Lack of originality much?

Becouse at WWII this units be a real german special units? Meyby this should be special swimwagen?

What is your proposition? What you want to see at special unit place?

@Bauer: The pictures you've posted is of the Nashorn, which was a very good tank destroyer, but it just looks like a Hummel with a different gun, and not so interesting.

@Saavedra: Have you ever played a WWII game where the special unit wasn't some sort of big bad ass tank? Besides, fitting with the "expansion" theme, dont you think having big tanks towards the end of a doctrine tree fits with the feel of the game?

Besides, most people seem to think its quite an original take on the idea of a heavy tank destroyer, what with the paper thin armour and suchlike.

Cheers