Increased Squad Size Upgrade

I think after researching all your infantry upgrades (Red Banner Strelky, Shock Guards, Weapon Reserves, Men Against Tanks, Infantry Support, etc) you could unlock the ability to upgrade a "Increased Squad Size" for your troops.  This could really help against lategame Axis Vetern Squads, and as usual the Soviets always had the advantage of more men.  Perhaps make the cost of this upgrade 350 Manpower and 70 Fuel.  So for extra man per squad:

Inginery    - 1
Conscripts - 1
Strelky      - 1
Guards      - 1
Observer  - 1
Naval Inf.  - 1
Partisans  - 1


#Post merge. No need to create two posts here.  Use the Edit function instead please. -Walki


Note: this suggestion upgrade can be re-arranged around and tweaked for balanced reasons so what posted above isn't set in stone.  Also this upgrade is only available when you have all the said upgrades stated above, making it more of a late-game ability that you need to unlock through a series of upgrades, just like you do with PE Panther Battle Group or their "Sprint" ability

Last edited December 6, 2012 at 7:45 AM by Walki

Urm, NO!

Not only NO!,

FRIG NO!!!

Think about the uses of this? Not only would you now have a more ridiculous population to deal with, you need to suddenly reinforce all the units in the field.
Plus getting all the upgrades would be near impossible in any fair game VP-game because most games don't last that long.
Then you would increase the Soviet manpower drain, and this ridiculous focus on infantry probably means that you don't even know what a tank looks like except the German Flakpanzer storming the gates of your base accompanied by StuH42s and Hummel artillery fire in the background.
Then add in the fact that you would completely destroy balance for the Guards and Strelky, perhaps also for the Conscripts (9 man conscript squad all armed with pretty good rifles?!?!?), this makes this a complete no-no.

OMG 5 man Guards

Hold me................O_O

I'm with you there Fish, the specter of 1.0 hangs heavy over my soul

Updated posts above

neosdark wrote:
Urm, NO!

Not only NO!,

FRIG NO!!!

Think about the uses of this? Not only would you now have a more ridiculous population to deal with, you need to suddenly reinforce all the units in the field.
Plus getting all the upgrades would be near impossible in any fair game VP-game because most games don't last that long.
Then you would increase the Soviet manpower drain, and this ridiculous focus on infantry probably means that you don't even know what a tank looks like except the German Flakpanzer storming the gates of your base accompanied by StuH42s and Hummel artillery fire in the background.
Then add in the fact that you would completely destroy balance for the Guards and Strelky, perhaps also for the Conscripts (9 man conscript squad all armed with pretty good rifles?!?!?), this makes this a complete no-no.

Thankyou for sharing your thoughs, I appreciate your conscructive criticism (we need more of that on these forums),mabye we rearrange some things about what I overlooked?

Pac-Fish wrote:
OMG 5 man Guards

Hold me................O_O

How about 6 man Guards?
(even worse PPS upgrade)?  :D

Last edited December 6, 2012 at 1:16 AM by 132

The SMG upgrade for basic Guards should be rolled back to v1.6 rules. It is ridiculous to have Heavy Infantry that cannot take advantage of close fighting weapons. RBS Strelky are OK but Stormovie  do not have the health even with received damage bonuses to adequately do the job. Stormovie are what they are but the 1.7 balance changes for Stormovie AND the elimination of SMGs for Guards in 2/3 of the CTs are not mutally incompatible.

I am much more likely to use Tank Riders to bring a reinforced infantry squad or Mechanics to the battle zone then I am to drive through enemy defenses with tank riders in red or worse cover. If occasionally I can get some motorized infantry through the lines so be it, but that is not what Tank Desant is all about. HTs or APCs are what are needed to have any expectation for armored infantry to make it through the Main Battle Line with enough strength to have a consistent effect. I think it unlikely we will see armored Soviet infantry in EF.

Speaking of Tank Riders what is the cover type for riding a tank ???

It is my understanding that is roadway, (negative) cover and stationary. THe stationary part is a two edged sword. It enhances tank riders firing accuracy but makes them highly susceptable to return fire.

Truth to say I haven't tested it in 1.7 but that is how it worked in 1.6.

Pac-Fish wrote:
Speaking of Tank Riders what is the cover type for riding a tank ???

Red, for now. Troops are pretty terribad on them.

Being stationary on the vehicle does give them full accuracy (like riding in HTs or Brens) and does not increase their received accuracy unless they are facing certain weapons like LMG42s. Apart from few exceptions, only Airborne armour gives better armour (less received accuracy) while moving. This is out of the infantry armour types only of course.

Cranialwizard wrote:

Pac-Fish wrote:
Speaking of Tank Riders what is the cover type for riding a tank ???

Red, for now. Troops are pretty terribad on them.

If it gives red cover, why on earth would anyone want to use tank riding?

Breakthrough has a pretty much useless side after the patch. 2 points for Mechanics that don't do nothing but repair, then 2 more points for tank riding which doesn't really do anything good either? 4 points into nothing if you ask me.

Abou the original topic - Err, how about no? The Soviets don't need bigger squads. I do not want to go back to the era of Conscripts being unable to enter most buildings. Not to mention the breaking of a lot of balance.

Last edited December 6, 2012 at 11:42 AM by Dot.Shadow

They don't get red cover while riding. You'd have to ask Bish their exact damage mods while riding. It's currently not as good as it should be. The problem is that the bonuses are balanced for Guards but are too weak for other squads. We're thinking of ways to fix this.

Dot.Shadow wrote:
Breakthrough has a pretty much useless side after the patch. 2 points for Mechanics that don't do nothing but repair, then 2 more points for tank riding which doesn't really do anything good either? 4 points into nothing if you ask me.

Mechanics can also supervise the tankhall, which will decrease production time and give you ressource bonuses (20mp and 10fuel less per tank). However this will cost 30mun. As the RHS BT has no muni sink ability, this feature is nearly for free.
Tank rider ability should also affect light tanks and heavy tanks, but it cannot currently due to the tank models cannot be modified. We need to wait for the new models being made by devs to add this feature.
BT RHS is already worth for the ISU152, which will stop any Tiger threat.

Dot.Shadow wrote:

Cranialwizard wrote:

Pac-Fish wrote:
Speaking of Tank Riders what is the cover type for riding a tank ???

Red, for now. Troops are pretty terribad on them.

If it gives red cover, why on earth would anyone want to use tank riding?

Breakthrough has a pretty much useless side after the patch. 2 points for Mechanics that don't do nothing but repair, then 2 more points for tank riding which doesn't really do anything good either? 4 points into nothing if you ask me.

• Tank Desant is mostly used to bring troops to the Main Battle Area. Especially handy for getting Mechanics to where they can do the most good when not supervising.


• BT is really useful in 1.7. An early Mechanic with the supervise ability Makes Light Tankovy a very effective tool. BIG IMPROVEMENT in Mechanics in 1.7. THe KV1 call-in is equally useful when Heavy Tankovy is delayed.

GodlikeDennis wrote:
They don't get red cover while riding. You'd have to ask Bish their exact damage mods while riding. It's currently not as good as it should be. The problem is that the bonuses are balanced for Guards but are too weak for other squads. We're thinking of ways to fix this.

How was the damage to Tank riding Guards changed in 1.7? They were vaporized in the blink of an eye in 1.6.
There is one change to 1.7 that relates to BT that is Very Bad. Making SMGs for Guards a strictly Doctrinal upgrade is absurd. Heavy Infantry should have close combat weaponry available if any infantry has close combat weaponry.

PPS was to be completely removed until I came up with the idea to make it doctrinal. The only reason it was kept was because the PPS performs better while riding the tanks and makes a suitable alternative to the SVT. Guards in general though are not supposed to have this close combat capability and you can tell in games that it was by far the more popular choice. It also limited the use of Strelky which are supposed to be the true CQB spam troops.

RHS is supposed to have an endgame focus much like US Armour doctrine. This means that T3 and T4 units are upgraded, which includes the mechanics and their ability that affects the Tank Hall, Tank Riders which will affect most tank hall units in future when we have more models, an upgrade for Guards which are a T3/4 infantry, and a heavy bully tank.