132 wrote:
Ok, I would hate to revive a VERY VERY OLD topic, but this issue is starting to annoy me again and I didn't want to repeat myself with a newer topic. With the recent update for the Soviet Support Barracks become more favorable of as a starter building, the regular barracks has very little use early game, especially for it's weaker/nerfed command squad. With only 4 members, this unit is very vulnerable to sniper attacks. I have posted an issue about the AI automatically targeting the major, but an alternative solution is to make it so that the major survives multiple sniper shots. Previously the squad had 5 members, it was significantly more powerful and the major was less vulnerable to sniper fire. Now, being the only investment of the red army tent early game, I think that the command squad needs a buff (primarily for durability against snipers) for what it really should be.
It is simply ridiculous that a british LT and wehr officer and even KCH, esp with vet can survive 3 sniper hits while the command squad major just goes down in one hit. Now, I know that these individual officers have no body guards to help reinforce but seeing now that they have only 4 members and the Major is usually targetted to die first 99% of the time, I think he needs a little buff. Kind of sucks that I can't use my "not one step back" ability simply because a guy just sniped him. 3 sniper hits may be a little too much, but I personally think because he has body guards that 2 would be just fine.
The CS has the same effective health like the had before. The squad had 5 members in the past, and now those 4 members share a new armourtype, which is 20% more resisilient to small arms fire. Also, the bodyguard damage has been increased to match the old damage output. I did this change to removed the ridiculous power that this squad got with veterancy and pps submachine guns. The old CS was able to wipe a vet 3 KCH squad easily. Now he can't do that as efficient anymore.
The other reason why the squad member number was reduced is the reason of its global veterancy, which was buffed considerably compared to the old vet (+5% more damage isnt much really). Now you get reduced received accuracy and damage in cover, better capping speed for all units and so on. Actually, I just looked the values up once more, and they're like this:
vet 1 offensive: 10% capping speed/10% rec. supression for all units (pretty mcuh puts conscripts on the supression resistance of riflemen
vet 2 offensive: 5% capping speed/5% rec. supression
vet 3 offensive: 5% capping speed/5% rec. supression
vet 1 defensive: 10% less rec. dmg/5% accuracy in cover
vet 2 defensive: 5% less rec. dmg/accuracy in cover
vet 3 defensive: 5% less rec. dmg/accuracy in cover
(note: vet 3 defensive is 0.9x0.95x0.95=0.81 rec. damage and 0.85 rec. accuracy in cover. So, having a vet 3 command squad gives your units almost a free elite armour upgrade (-25% rec damage/accuracy) ON TOP of your unit's regular veterancy. I hope you can imagine how much of a bonus this is and I'd consider that to be pretty much worth it alone to get the command squad to high veterancy (which is easiest when used earlygame when enemy units don't have weapon upgrades etc.).
The next version will slightly adjust the veterancy to these values:
vet 1 offensive: 10% capping speed/10% rec. supression for all units, 5% less weapon cooldown
vet 2 offensive: 5% capping speed/5% rec. supression, 5% less weapon cooldown
vet 3 offensive: 5% capping speed/5% rec. supression, 5% less weapon cooldown
vet 1 defensive: 5% less rec. dmg/accuracy in cover, 15% less weapon scatter
vet 2 defensive: 5% less rec. dmg/accuracy in cover, 15% less weapon scatter
vet 3 defensive: 5% less rec. dmg/accuracy in cover, 15% less weapon scatter
On top of that the CS himself also gets veterancy bonuses. More sight range, less received damage, less received accuracy. So, the more vet you get the beefier the CS will become, making it easier to keep it alive throughout the game. About the "CS sniped and abilities gone" issue: it's intentional, as you need to click Danko to snipe him individually and it was meant to be a reward for smart play. Take out danko early to remove the huge bonuses he grants to his troops.
132 wrote:
Jäger wrote:
I see no problems with how Soviets play.
I have evidence showing me almost winning a 2v1 as the USSR, against Ostheer and Wehrmacht, the command squad survived almost the entire battle.
You have the Gaz, use that to kill snipers, this isn't an issue of imbalance, it's an issue of "Get good"
Haha. First of all, no contribution to my issue of the command squad. Secondly, the issue of "get good"? How ironic.
Jäger wrote:
I'd like too, I'm no good though.
(please let me be soviets)
I don't think it is right to under estimate someone right away, based on your shallow judgement and reasoning. You never know, you may find out one day that the person you underestimated/made assumptions about was and is one of the top players on the COH leaderboards with a 25 win streak in automatch.
Claiming your words are high value simply because you brag that you have "almost won a game 2v1 as USSR" is very void. Without a valid replay, most likely you were facing 2 easy or normal AI's at the most. And if you even would have come close to winning, it is simply because your enemies had terrible skill or you exploited the Ai's stupidity (sniper spam possible *cough cough*)
But to my point? DID you read what I just said? You must play high resource annihilate games because first of all:
1. Counter sniping with a sniper is much more efficient, especially in this patch, than getting light MG vehicles like the GAZ (also jeep or bike or whatever). Later on it is nothing but there to provide recon and defend against sneaky back capping pioneers.
2. Refering back to #1, the SNIPER is available in the same building in which the GAZ is produced.
3. The most obvious one that relates completely to #1 and #2 - There isn't any GAZ available if you begin with a command squad since the Red Mustering Tent DOES NOT have the Gaz readily available, meaning it is vulnerable to snipers early game. I assume that YOU probably play high resource annihilate games and claim that you are good because you claim to have the Command Squad and the GAZ simultaneously during the first few minutes you start the game.
The question is not of whether your command squad survived the entire battle it is "how you used it in battle and when you retreated it". (For all we know you could of just used it as a capping squad or had it as a pacifist squad)
Yes, but since when t1 has only CS and conscripts as available units? ::)
You get molotovs, the CS and SPOTTERS. Spotters are the infantry based countersnipe/detection unit for soviets. Put them in cover and they will create "no-go" areas for snipers. All it needs is a bit of foresight where to place it so you don't have to move the spotter around. Hell, you can just build some sandbags with your conscripts and ta-daaa... Cover bonus spotters where you want them to be.
Overall spotters are insanely powerful against units in cover, will countersnipe detected snipers which are in range in 2 hits max and takes at least 3-4 sniper shots to get killed. You can even detect spotters from 40m range by throwing flares.
So, there is your counter snipers. The issue isnt that much with the CS itself imo, but with snipers being broken in CoH in general. We wanted to fix that in the past with our changes to how sniper camo works, but after huge complaining from Killar, Peter and Riggs we removed that feature again. And now we have the vcoh sniper mechanics in ef, too. I could care less tho because I don't use them on purpose.
Abuse is abuse and has to go.
Last edited December 7, 2014 at 3:24 PM by Hendrik 'DarcReaver' S.
