Infantry Section "Deploy Marksman"

Just my opinion, but I think the ability to marksman's rifle used by the recon section should be able to fire instantly. My reasoning for this is, it's difficult to counter snipers. Not only do you have to target them manually, but then the infantryman has to get into place, then he has to aim, and often times the sniper has gone back into hiding before that happens. It's not uncommon to lose up to 3 men before I manage to nail the bastard, often because he cloaks too quickly to get hit. Since we already have to wait for the marksmen to find his sweet spot before firing, I suggest that the rifle have 0 setup / aim time and be able to fire instantly as soon as the marksman is ready.

Sorry to say, but this probably won't happen. It's EF policy not to change Vanilla stats.

Mr. wrote:
Just my opinion, but I think the ability to marksman's rifle used by the recon section should be able to fire instantly. My reasoning for this is, it's difficult to counter snipers. Not only do you have to target them manually, but then the infantryman has to get into place, then he has to aim, and often times the sniper has gone back into hiding before that happens. It's not uncommon to lose up to 3 men before I manage to nail the bastard, often because he cloaks too quickly to get hit. Since we already have to wait for the marksmen to find his sweet spot before firing, I suggest that the rifle have 0 setup / aim time and be able to fire instantly as soon as the marksman is ready.

If the ability is active (you target the sniper already) and the sniper hides again the ability will stay active and after the next shot the sniper makes he'll get countersniped.

Thats why you need to get really close. Either the sniper will retreat and you probably counter snipe it, or it stays and attempts to fight you. Either way it'll die

Brits already have stupid instant abilities that you got no control over (instant arty, button, heroic charge, etc) making counter snipe ability shoot instantly makes MGs less useful and snipers die too often.  It is already ridiculous concept that 25 munitions kills 340 manpower sniper.  And your complaining that its so hard to use marksmen ability when it is OP vs snipers already.  If he is smart to support the sniper with either Volks or MG42 or both it costs 340+250>450mp why should my properly defended Sniper die to your recon snipe when it is supported?  It's like complaining that the instant arty ability AKA FOO, isn't always accurate 10% of the time.

Last edited October 17, 2012 at 12:38 AM by 132

THis is a pretty old topic :P. No need to revive it

Cranialwizard wrote:
Sorry to say, but this probably won't happen. It's EF policy not to change Vanilla stats.

What about the broken instant suppress staghound MG that never stops to reload?

Last edited October 17, 2012 at 12:45 AM by 132

Maybe it passed over your head, no change to Vanilla stats. Clean the wax off your ears chum.

And learn some tactics while you're at it, get your squads into cover, or better yet, use your own vehicles against the stag. By the time it hits the field you should have a few counters already.

Actually I think the Stag MG is fixed in EF because it is a bug. However marksman will not be changed. It is already quite bad and doesn't need to be made worse. FOO is a more reliable countersnioe.

Thank god no more noobish Brit abuse staghound spams which were both annoying and boring to play against :)

Cranialwizard wrote:
Sorry to say, but this probably won't happen. It's EF policy not to change Vanilla stats.

After using EF mod as a test zone to test out changes in my own mod, and then (out of laziness) returning those changed weapons to that mod, all of the Wehrmacht small arms weapons (which were the ones I modified for the most part) had an 0.75 accuracy and damage modifier vs. Infantry armor. I don't know if it was a bug or part of EF (I don't have corsix open atm), but it was a significant change that completely splayed balance when I discovered and corrected it. With changes such as the new non-russian reward units and tweaks regarding Grenadiers v. Strekly back in the day, plus slot item changes (PE G43s), is this really a valid argument? I don't mean to be rude (to each his own, your mod, your policy) but I just noted some of these changes. Hell, EiRR mod has been stuck in "must adhere to vcoh balance!" mode even though it doesn't apply there. Not the same circumstances, but it still involves the old "balance = vcoh, or new balance?" argument that every mod faces. Loosening the restraints of vCoH balance might let the EF team better balance the mod (or it could fail miserably; who knows).

EasyCalic wrote:
Maybe it passed over your head, no change to Vanilla stats. Clean the wax off your ears chum.

And learn some tactics while you're at it, get your squads into cover, or better yet, use your own vehicles against the stag. By the time it hits the field you should have a few counters already.

This thread was concerning the Deploy Marksman ability? Even skilled CoH players find using the Recon Squad vs. a competently microed and supported sniper to be a huge (and not very cost effective) gambit. Yes, there's always the old 'lulz Recon squad in a Bren Carrier' gambit but if you get fausted, you lose (at the point you could use the Deploy Mksmn ability, WM can fire off Fausts assuming that the field is fully capped). Even small arms shred the Bren, and Brits against the tried and true V>MG>V>MG>S strat is taking your keyboard to your own head. If, for instance, dear old Hans makes it into range of an MG42, you can't do bupkis. "Use flanking" is only a semi valid argument, as good MG micro will nullify a good flank in short order (vs Brits). I would say lowering the deploy time would go a long ways to making the recon squad a valid sniper deterrant.

-don'tbanmebro :-X-

Last edited October 17, 2012 at 6:15 PM by TheVolskinator

QuoteAfter using EF mod as a test zone to test out changes in my own mod, and then (out of laziness) returning those changed weapons to that mod, all of the Wehrmacht small arms weapons (which were the ones I modified for the most part) had an 0.75 accuracy and damage modifier vs. Infantry armor.

EF didn't change this. Wehr small arms (specifically MP40s and LMG42s) have 0.75 damage vs most infantry armour types. This also means that they receive no damage reduction against Elite or Heroic armour, since they still do the full damage they would otherwise against infantry armour (accuracy is still reduced against better armour types). I would say this is a way for Relic to allow these weapons to scale against stronger armour types without overpowering them against weaker armour types, the same way the MP44 ignores armour. I'm guess they didn't just set it at 1 for all the armours (like MP44s have) because these weapons were probably too strong when they were intially balancing them and thought that would be an easy way to change it at the time.

Fair enough (you learn something new every day). I'd still like to put my hat in the ring about the Deploy Marksman ability.

If you give them a instant hit button, they can not only insta kill snipers, but retreating infantry too.  Do you think it's fair that a storm squad with one man with a Panzerschreck retreats right in a middle of a recon squad and all the Brit has to do is hit the snipe button and there goes your Stormtroopers who drops a Schreck.  Lets not forget they already have instant artillery.

132 wrote:
If you give them a instant hit button, they can not only insta kill snipers, but retreating infantry too.  Do you think it's fair that a storm squad with one man with a Panzerschreck retreats right in a middle of a recon squad and all the Brit has to do is hit the snipe button and there goes your Stormtroopers who drops a Schreck.  Lets not forget they already have instant artillery.

But that's not our decision to make, more of Relic's whom has declined to do so. So we live with it.

Cranialwizard wrote:
But that's not our decision to make, more of Relic's whom has declined to do so. So we live with it.

Which is why snipe should stay the same, at least retreating squads run really fast so they may dodge it, but giving it an instant means it is hopeless for your 1man left retreating guy to make it back home.  A marksman is a marksman.  It takes precise aim to hit the right spot of the target to kill him in one shot, you can't expect them to fire instantly.  Otherwise snipers would just fire like crazy while maintaing 100% accuracy which is very unrealistic.

Last edited October 21, 2012 at 10:53 PM by 132

132 wrote:
Which is why snipe should stay the same, at least retreating squads run really fast so they may dodge it, but giving it an instant means it is hopeless for your 1man left retreating guy to make it back home.  A marksman is a marksman.  It takes precise aim to hit the right spot of the target to kill him in one shot, you can't expect them to fire instantly.  Otherwise snipers would just fire like crazy while maintaing 100% accuracy which is very unrealistic.

And change the vanilla?

I believe the dev has been clear enough that unless it is a bug, the vanilla version will not be touched.

132 wrote:

Cranialwizard wrote:
But that's not our decision to make, more of Relic's whom has declined to do so. So we live with it.

Which is why snipe should stay the same, at least retreating squads run really fast so they may dodge it, but giving it an instant means it is hopeless for your 1man left retreating guy to make it back home.  A marksman is a marksman.  It takes precise aim to hit the right spot of the target to kill him in one shot, you can't expect them to fire instantly.  Otherwise snipers would just fire like crazy while maintaing 100% accuracy which is very unrealistic.

Reality is not in this game unless noted otherwise. Really, there's a lot of arguments of Balance/gameplay vs. Reality, and those simply do not work unless you're trying to make a hardcore simulator, not a game.

As for the marskman ability. Well, it's really tough beans for you. It costs munitions to use, and has a cooldown (admitedly a short one), add to that that the Commonwealth has no reliable countersniping ability besides it, and you'll start to see why it has to work the way it works.

One of the few things stupid, newbies or atrocious players forget is that the Marskman ability has a much shorter range than that of a sniper, and have to run the ways up to said sniper for the recon section to make use of it. An alert wher player will simply decloak their sniper and have him running out of the Recon section, lead them into a trap, or simply distract them from other potential targets such as capping pios or MGs deploying somewhere.

My wrote:
And change the vanilla?

I believe the dev has been clear enough that unless it is a bug, the vanilla version will not be touched.

Do I really have to repeat myself?

132 wrote:
Which is why snipe should stay the same

This thread is getting us nowhere.  It is clear to everyone since

Bread wrote:
THis is a pretty old topic :P. No need to revive it

We already know there won't be any changes to this ability, so it's best to lock this thread.  End of discussion.

Last edited October 22, 2012 at 10:46 PM by 132